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#1
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
(Trying to record a music band outdoors)
Please give me some advice- I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something that's not worrying about? I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off batteries; that also means there isn't going to be an amplifying system, and the performers will just sit around strumming their strings, or banging their drums, or whatever. I figured that decibel alterations will be available to me during post production editing. (Yes, there will also be some cameras around, but I don't want to use their microphones as they may be around 30 or 40 feet away from the performers.) Which microphones are best for this sort of situation? I haven't bought them yet, and noticed that some microphones are very expensive. My budget is $800 for microphones alone (at about $150 apiece) but I would like to divvy that up between two separate recording systems, where each music performer has two microphones on stands, and if the first system fails, the second system is bound to pick something up. So that made me wonder about something I've read about - 'balanced' audio lines. I understand that there are 3 wires inside a typical balanced line, two of them are for audio, and a third wire between them is a ground. Does anybody actually strip the insulation off those things so the grounding wire can be grounded better, say, with 8 feet of a copper rod pounded into the ground? Or is that something nobody does? |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
"Beta Zero" wrote in ...
(Trying to record a music band outdoors) Please give me some advice- I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something that's not worrying about? Lots of microphones are used in direct sunlight in hot places. If you are operating in harsh conditions, then use microphones that are made for field use. For example, dynamic mics are likely less susceptable to either temporary or permanent damage from ambient heat. I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off batteries; that also means there isn't going to be an amplifying system, and the performers will just sit around strumming their strings, or banging their drums, or whatever. I figured that decibel alterations will be available to me during post production editing. (Yes, there will also be some cameras around, but I don't want to use their microphones as they may be around 30 or 40 feet away from the performers.) You didn't mention what you are recording on/with? Which microphones are best for this sort of situation? I haven't bought them yet, and noticed that some microphones are very expensive. My budget is $800 for microphones alone (at about $150 apiece) but I would like to divvy that up between two separate recording systems, where each music performer has two microphones on stands, and if the first system fails, the second system is bound to pick something up. The old standby Shure SM57 & 58 will likely take the heat and they are cheap enough to have 100% backup on your budget. So that made me wonder about something I've read about - 'balanced' audio lines. I understand that there are 3 wires inside a typical balanced line, two of them are for audio, and a third wire between them is a ground. Actually, there are two wires inside (usually twisted together) with a shield (braided wire and/or aluminum foil) around the outside as the shield/screen. Does anybody actually strip the insulation off those things so the grounding wire can be grounded better, No. If you need access to the ground/shield, it is available anywhere there is a connector on either end. Stripping the insulation permanently ruins the cable. say, with 8 feet of a copper rod pounded into the ground? Or is that something nobody does? If you really need to ground the system, it is typically done by going to the equipment that the cable plugs into, and connecting its chassis to ground. But if you are shooting with battery- operated equipment in a place without grid power, you likely won't need to ground anything. Unless you are in the shadow of some broadcast transmitter or something. (In which case there would be power! :-) Note that there is annother newsgroup where field recording on battery power and with cameras is the "normal" setup. news:rec.arts.movies.production.sound I'd bet that there are some people there who have worked in extreme temperatures. If you ask you question there, suggest a little more technical details (like what you are recording on, etc.) Remember that there are outdoor summer music performances all over the planet, many without shade and melting mics is not something one hears much about. |
#3
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
On May 1, 2:59 pm, Beta Zero wrote:
In the olden days, microphones had membranous diaphragms of some kind, and the way these things responded to vibrations, had a lot to do with the frequencies transmitted. I figured that a 'hot' microphone would produce a different range of sounds than a 'cold' one. Uh, no. The vibrations impinging on the diaphragm produce corresponding eletrical signals. 1 kHz in, 1 kHz out, simple as that. If "a hot microphone produce a different range of sounds than a cold one," you have a seriously broken microphone: throw it out. Microphone sensitivity, noise level and even relibility can change with temperatire, but there's no physical mechanism, which can cause an operating microphone listening to one range of frequencies to change them into some other range. |
#4
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
"Beta Zero" wrote in message
... "Beta Zero" wrote in ... (Trying to record a music band outdoors) Please give me some advice- I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something that's not worrying about? Lots of microphones are used in direct sunlight in hot places. In the olden days, microphones had membranous diaphragms of some kind, and the way these things responded to vibrations, had a lot to do with the frequencies transmitted. I figured that a 'hot' microphone would produce a different range of sounds than a 'cold' one. If you are operating in harsh conditions, then use microphones that are made for field use. For example, dynamic mics are likely less susceptable to either temporary or permanent damage from ambient heat. I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off batteries; that also means there isn't going to be an amplifying system, and the performers will just sit around strumming their strings, or banging their drums, or whatever. I figured that decibel alterations will be available to me during post production editing. (Yes, there will also be some cameras around, but I don't want to use their microphones as they may be around 30 or 40 feet away from the performers.) You didn't mention what you are recording on/with? An Olympus LS-10,. Will that work? It's on order. I understood that you can plug 4 microphones into it. The software package is iListen for an unexpanded Mac 'mini.' I am gritting my teeth for the nerve and reserve to buy a Marantz, it's just that it is kind of spendy, so I have to put that off for a couple weeks. Ditto with regards to the microphones. But all the hardware has to be in my hands by mid-June. Which microphones are best for this sort of situation? I haven't bought them yet, and noticed that some microphones are very expensive. My budget is $800 for microphones alone (at about $150 apiece) but I would like to divvy that up between two separate recording systems, I.e., two microphones per performer. where each music performer has two microphones on stands, and if the first system fails, the second system is bound to pick something up. The old standby Shure SM57 & 58 will likely take the heat and they are cheap enough to have 100% backup on your budget. At a hundred bucks apiece, 8 microphones would eat up the entire $800 budget. I was hoping the secondary microphones - attached to the backup recording system - could be in the $50 to $60 range. Would that be a bad idea? snip Note that there is annother newsgroup where field recording on battery power and with cameras is the "normal" setup. news:rec.arts.movies.production.sound I'd bet that there are some people there who have worked in extreme temperatures. If you ask you question there, suggest a little more technical details (like what you are recording on, etc.) Remember that there are outdoor summer music performances all over the planet, many without shade and melting mics is not something one hears much about. Speaking of recording performers outdoors, I'm worried about the whoosh effect from wind and light breezes rustling by the microphones. Which brand of windscreen do you think works best, or fits the best, when it comes to the Shure 57 or 58 microphones? Sounds to me like you are on the verge of spending $800 on a bunch of nearly pro-sumer audio equipment that you most likely won't use very often, will disappoint with quality, and is a recipe for audio disaster. Your equipment's resale value will also be disappointing once you realize it didn't perform as well as you had hoped. While on the surface what you are doing may seem simple enough, you will find that it's really more complex than you imagine to achieve quality results. My suggestion both for getting a quality recording and for learning more about quality live recording would be to either hire someone with experience and equipment or rent professional equipment along with a thorough tutorial on how to get the best results out of it. The reason that professional recording engineers charge what they do for their labor and equipment is because they have already made the mistakes you are about to make! On the other hand, if this is just a non-important hobby type of event....give it a shot, but don't expect to achieve top notch results with a setup and experience level you have described above. |
#5
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
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#6
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
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#7
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
On Thu, 1 May 2008 11:59:21 -0700, Beta Zero wrote
(in article ): "Beta Zero" wrote in ... (Trying to record a music band outdoors) Please give me some advice- I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something that's not worrying about? Lots of microphones are used in direct sunlight in hot places. In the olden days, microphones had membranous diaphragms of some kind, and the way these things responded to vibrations, had a lot to do with the frequencies transmitted. I figured that a 'hot' microphone would produce a different range of sounds than a 'cold' one. If you are operating in harsh conditions, then use microphones that are made for field use. For example, dynamic mics are likely less susceptable to either temporary or permanent damage from ambient heat. I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off batteries; that also means there isn't going to be an amplifying system, and the performers will just sit around strumming their strings, or banging their drums, or whatever. I figured that decibel alterations will be available to me during post production editing. (Yes, there will also be some cameras around, but I don't want to use their microphones as they may be around 30 or 40 feet away from the performers.) You didn't mention what you are recording on/with? An Olympus LS-10,. Will that work? It's on order. I understood that you can plug 4 microphones into it. The software package is iListen for an unexpanded Mac 'mini.' I am gritting my teeth for the nerve and reserve to buy a Marantz, it's just that it is kind of spendy, so I have to put that off for a couple weeks. Ditto with regards to the microphones. But all the hardware has to be in my hands by mid-June. Which microphones are best for this sort of situation? I haven't bought them yet, and noticed that some microphones are very expensive. My budget is $800 for microphones alone (at about $150 apiece) but I would like to divvy that up between two separate recording systems, I.e., two microphones per performer. where each music performer has two microphones on stands, and if the first system fails, the second system is bound to pick something up. The old standby Shure SM57 & 58 will likely take the heat and they are cheap enough to have 100% backup on your budget. At a hundred bucks apiece, 8 microphones would eat up the entire $800 budget. I was hoping the secondary microphones - attached to the backup recording system - could be in the $50 to $60 range. Would that be a bad idea? Try a pair of the Behringer C-2s. They come as a stereo pair of cardioid condenser mikes complete with a T-Bar and retail for about $50/pair in their own fitted case. They are excellent for vocals, piano, drum sets, etc. BTW, they come with foam "wind socks" to help attenuate wind noise. |
#8
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
Try a pair of the Behringer *C-2s. They come as a stereo pair of cardioid condenser mikes complete with a T-Bar and retail for about $50/pair in their own fitted case. They are excellent for vocals, piano, drum sets, etc. BTW, they come with foam "wind socks" to help attenuate wind noise.- Hide quoted text - Can't say fairer than what Charlie pointed out, but maybe a couple of those Behringers is a good idea for your first mic pair to learn what mics are like. Apart from that, look into hiring equipment - you'll be using much better stuff and be able to learn from the whole experience (if you wanted to use the gig to start up your own collection do it half-half : buy two Behringers and one better mic or mini recorder to keep yourself and hire in the rest). It's not just mics - good preamps are worth their weight - you can put them in front of a cheap digital recorder, feed a line into a camera ... for less rental money than recorders, which are more expensive (like cameras) due to their shorter shelf life. Wind - hired mics often come with full professional windshields, thus saving you a fortune for the shoot - otherwise a deadcat or windjammer over the foam windshield will be of great benefit at a low cost (or a rycote softie at the medium range for quality and price) Jez Adamson |
#9
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
"Beta Zero" wrote in message ... Charles Tomaras wrote: Sounds to me like you are on the verge of spending $800 on a bunch of nearly pro-sumer audio equipment that you most likely won't use very often, will disappoint with quality, and is a recipe for audio disaster. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Your equipment's resale value will also be disappointing once you realize it didn't perform as well as you had hoped. Nope, I don't plan on reselling. The next major project is an indie movie in late August. I need some music for when the actors are driving along in their car, and they turn on the radio. So I thought I'd foley in some music. While on the surface what you are doing may seem simple enough, you will find that it's really more complex than you imagine to achieve quality results. I want to keep the June budget down to $3,000 before I go to the August budget, something like five to ten times that. (Sort of makes me sound like a cheapskate, huh?) My suggestion both for getting a quality recording and for learning more about quality live recording Well, quality live recording is in a recording room, but I don't mind a little bit of background noise by shooting it out in a park, or some distant location in the National Forest. would be to either hire someone with experience and equipment or rent professional equipment along with a thorough tutorial on how to get the best results out of it. The reason that professional recording engineers charge what they do for their labor and equipment is because they have already made the mistakes you are about to make! Well, I have to make the mistakes sometime, and I thought, "Well, what the heck, why not this summer?" That's why $800 on microphones, something like $500 on a digital recorder or two (the H4 looked very tempting), and then another $500 on hiring a band to play in some remote location, and then a little bit more money as a slush fund, depending on what happens. On the other hand, if this is just a non-important hobby type of event....give it a shot, but don't expect to achieve top notch results with a setup and experience level you have described above. Okay. Best of luck to you. You posted on a professional sound newsgroup asking for professional opinions but apparently you are just looking for someone to reinforce and support you in your completely inexperienced totally green ideas about recording sound with the cheapest equipment money can buy. Print this out and save it because if you do continue in this field and figure things out you will look back in a number of years on this message and have a good laugh at your naivety. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
"Beta Zero" wrote in message
(Trying to record a music band outdoors) If you want that gig to turn out well, first learn how to record a band before the real show comes up. I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. Very unlikely. IME microphones are pretty durable period, and especially resistent to high temperatures. The people who make microphones know that they get carried around in cars and trucks and stored in hot places, and used in hot places. I'd be more worried about rain or high winds. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something that's not worrying about? You're majoring in minors. I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off batteries; that also means there isn't going to be an amplifying system, The absence of a SR system is the good news. Getting a good recording with a SR system going at the same time is IME much more difficult. I know how difficult it is - I do it all the time. and the performers will just sit around strumming their strings, or banging their drums, or whatever. There's problem number one - your leading challenge to getting balanced sound it trying to get enough strings and not too much drums. Acoustic drums tend to be very loud. I figured that decibel alterations will be available to me during post production editing. If you want flexibility during post, you are commiting yourself to multitracking. That means lots of mics and one independent recorded track per mic. (Yes, there will also be some cameras around, but I don't want to use their microphones as they may be around 30 or 40 feet away from the performers.) Good thought. If you do distant micing, you are stuck with whatever mix nature decided to create for you that day. Which microphones are best for this sort of situation? The general rule of thumb is the less mics the better. If you are outside, chances are good you won't be fighting the room, but chances are also good that you won't have a room that supporting the bass in any way. I haven't bought them yet, and noticed that some microphones are very expensive. You said a mouth full. My budget is $800 for microphones alone (at about $150 apiece) but I would like to divvy that up between two separate recording systems, where each music performer has two microphones on stands, and if the first system fails, the second system is bound to pick something up. In fact nobody working at your level doubles up on microphones. Mics are a lot more reliable than that. Frankly, the most likely source of failure in this project is you and your obvious lack of understanding of and experience with recording. Recording is like learning to play an instrument, the secret to good results is practice, practice, practice. No secret at all. I've been recording pretty intensively for six years, I've made several thousand live recordings of 100's of groups and I'm still making mistakes and suboptimal choices that are totally clear with 20-20 hindsight. Of course I do get a few things right and have many satifisfied customers, but I don't fool me. ;-) So that made me wonder about something I've read about - 'balanced' audio lines. I understand that there are 3 wires inside a typical balanced line, two of them are for audio, and a third wire between them is a ground. Yup, that's a standard XLR mic cable. Thing is XLR connectors have a large degree of inherent safety. Anything with power is enclosed, whether connected or not. Does anybody actually strip the insulation off those things so the grounding wire can be grounded better, say, with 8 feet of a copper rod pounded into the ground? Or is that something nobody does? I've never grounded a live recording gig through anything but the safety ground of the power supply. If running totally on batteries, then what's to ground? If you're running battery-powered equipment, then the largest voltage around is the 48 volt phantom supply which is usually totally enclosed in a conductive shield every where it goes. I think you can give yourself a noticable tingle with 48 VDC if you are hot and sweaty, but its pretty darn safe. Dry skin and 48 VDC is a nit, you can't feel a thing and it isn't going to even make you tingle, let alone hurt you. Besides, its shielded everywhere it goes if you use standard cables and connectors. |
#11
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
It sounds like you've gotten the advice to get a professional for
this. I can't argue with that (especially since I'm not one). However, being one who does this stuff for fun, I understand why you want to do it yourself. In that case, I don't think $800 is really enough. My advice to you would be to rent some gear. I don't know what kind of music is being performed, but for the conditions you describe, I'd go for a pair of Sennheiser MKH mics. In the nature recording world, they are the goto mics due to their robustness and extremely low noise floor. In RAMPS, you will hear people argue the merits of Schoeps mics (well, not so much argue as sing) and their susceptibility to humidity (that's an actual argument). You never hear them question MKHs ability to withstand the environment. They have a unique construction and operation principle which helps in this area. Which mics? I'd go with a 50 + 30, or a 40 + 30 OR 2 20's OR 2 40's. Depends on what you're recording and how you like to record. The MS setup of a 50/40 plus a 30, which is a hyper or cardio + a fig 8, makes for easy location sound - tuck it in a Rycote and you're good to go. The pair of 40s (cardios) provides many options for stereo recording (XY, NOS, ORTF, etc) but is more difficult to for wind protection. Which you will want. Lastly, you could do spaced omnis with a pair of 20's. If the next project is a movie, I'd say the 50 + 30 is the best bet, because then you have a top of class hyper to work with for dialogue. Oh yeah, thats assuming you can buy. The only problem with the above plan is that we're taking $2k in mics (at least), $600 for the wind protection, and we haven't even started talking about recording devices. Which is why I say rent. If its for fun, and you don't have the money, as much as a backup is nice, you're going to have to run naked. And if you lose it, you lose it. If you can scrape together something, go with some cheap dynamics as stated (SM57 over a 58) and someones laptop + USB/firewire interface. By the way, this is the exact route I took (minus the renting). I started off with a pair of Schoeps, a couple caps, and a computer based recording device as my first quality setup, but eventually sold the Schoeps, obtained a small assortment of MKHs (30, 50, 60) and a Sound Devices recorder, and now have quite a lot of fun doing film sound, live music recording, and nature recording. |
#12
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
you can find used hhb dat recorder ( non tc ) with good
preamps-300-400usd ( i dont think anyone on that forum would have any objection as used it for years :-)) add good stereo mic as avanton for 600 http://www.avantelectronics.com/CK-4...0FET%20MIC.htm and you can record your band relatively cheap |
#13
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
On Thu, 1 May 2008 14:59:21 -0400, Beta Zero wrote
(in article ): "Beta Zero" wrote in ... (Trying to record a music band outdoors) Please give me some advice- I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something that's not worrying about? I once had a Countryman EMW go dead on a shoot at the Baltimore Orioles stadium. It was about 100 degrees F. (the thermometer in the sun said 112!) Other EMW's were OK. When I got back home, the mic was fine and has been OK since then. Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU |
#14
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
Ty Ford wrote: On Thu, 1 May 2008 14:59:21 -0400, Beta Zero wrote (in article ): "Beta Zero" wrote in ... (Trying to record a music band outdoors) Please give me some advice- I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something that's not worrying about? I once had a Countryman EMW go dead on a shoot at the Baltimore Orioles stadium. It was about 100 degrees F. (the thermometer in the sun said 112!) Other EMW's were OK. When I got back home, the mic was fine and has been OK since then. Regards, Ty Ford I always thought those things would withstand anything short of nuclear attack. Did it have a black finish, by any chance? d |
#15
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
Ty Ford wrote:
On Thu, 1 May 2008 14:59:21 -0400, Beta Zero wrote (in article ): "Beta Zero" wrote in ... (Trying to record a music band outdoors) Please give me some advice- I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something that's not worrying about? I once had a Countryman EMW go dead on a shoot at the Baltimore Orioles stadium. It was about 100 degrees F. (the thermometer in the sun said 112!) Other EMW's were OK. When I got back home, the mic was fine and has been OK since then. On a (perhaps) related note; I once had a Soundcraft Venue console get hinky on me at the 'Memphis in May' Festival. Basic operation was still functional--IOW, it passed signal and sounded okay--but the mutes and solo functions went completely wonky. Solo became increasingly distorted, then went completely out. Mutes were intermittent. Shading the console from the direct sun solved all problems, eventually. jak Regards, Ty Ford --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU |
#16
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
"Beta Zero" wrote ...
Charles Tomaras wrote: Your equipment's resale value will also be disappointing once you realize it didn't perform as well as you had hoped. Nope, I don't plan on reselling. The next major project is an indie movie in late August. I need some music for when the actors are driving along in their car, and they turn on the radio. So I thought I'd foley in some music. Note that the kind of equipment (particularly microphones) you need for film/video production is very different than what is best for recording music ensembles. If I had to compromose, I think I would buy equipment suitable for film/video production and use it for the music/SFX collection. |
#17
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
On Thu, 1 May 2008 23:34:38 -0700, Beta Zero wrote
(in article ): Charles Tomaras wrote: Sounds to me like you are on the verge of spending $800 on a bunch of nearly pro-sumer audio equipment that you most likely won't use very often, will disappoint with quality, and is a recipe for audio disaster. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Your equipment's resale value will also be disappointing once you realize it didn't perform as well as you had hoped. Nope, I don't plan on reselling. The next major project is an indie movie in late August. I need some music for when the actors are driving along in their car, and they turn on the radio. So I thought I'd foley in some music. While on the surface what you are doing may seem simple enough, you will find that it's really more complex than you imagine to achieve quality results. I want to keep the June budget down to $3,000 before I go to the August budget, something like five to ten times that. (Sort of makes me sound like a cheapskate, huh?) My suggestion both for getting a quality recording and for learning more about quality live recording Well, quality live recording is in a recording room, but I don't mind a little bit of background noise by shooting it out in a park, or some distant location in the National Forest. would be to either hire someone with experience and equipment or rent professional equipment along with a thorough tutorial on how to get the best results out of it. The reason that professional recording engineers charge what they do for their labor and equipment is because they have already made the mistakes you are about to make! Well, I have to make the mistakes sometime, and I thought, "Well, what the heck, why not this summer?" That's why $800 on microphones, something like $500 on a digital recorder or two (the H4 looked very tempting), and then another $500 on hiring a band to play in some remote location, and then a little bit more money as a slush fund, depending on what happens. On the other hand, if this is just a non-important hobby type of event....give it a shot, but don't expect to achieve top notch results with a setup and experience level you have described above. Okay. Look, good recording equipment doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg anymore. There are a number of fine microphones selling for under $100 each. There are excellent sounding mixers with ultra-quiet mike preamps available for incredibly cheap prices nowadays. In fact, one can get a full-featured excellent sounding 4-microphones-in, 2- channels out mixers for less than $100 from companies such as Alesis, TASCAM, Behringer, Mackie, Rotel, etc. These are far quieter and better sounding than state-of-the-art mixing consoles of a generation or so ago (of course, the more microphone inputs one needs the more the mixers cost). Microphone cables are likewise cheap nowadays with cables from Shure and others starting at less than $10 for a 20-25 ft length. Microphone stands are likewise cheap. The light, foldable On-Stage "Euroboom" stand complete with boom can be bought on-line for around $20 each. These stands are excellent. They're all black, don't have the heavy cast-iron bases of traditional stands and four of them can be carried in one hand (folded up, of course). It's truly a golden era for amateur/ semi-pro recording. The recordings that I have made using just the sort of equipment listed above are far better than anything one can buy commercially. With no signal processing and no compression or limiting, one gets the entire dynamic range that digital is capable of (and which commercial recordings NEVER give you). Careful mike placement will reward you with the kind of sound-stage and image depth that's rare to non-existent in commercial recordings. I find the results very satisfying and the process rewarding. |
#18
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
"Beta Zero" wrote in message
... You posted on a professional sound newsgroup asking for professional opinions You sure about that? Can you post the charters for the relevant newsgroups offended? Maybe you should preface your next round of cross posting with "I'm a novice looking to do amatuer recording of some music in the woods." but apparently you are just looking for someone to reinforce and support you in your completely inexperienced totally green ideas about recording sound with the cheapest equipment money can buy. No, I'm just trying to save money without going hogwild overboard buying stuff. (People who skimp on buying things, tend to impress me. They really do.) Ok, go for it. Buy the least amount of cheap prosumer gear you can afford, do not heed any professional opinions and expect professional results with sub $100 microphones, lavs hanging over stands, cheap preamps, foam windscreens, light weight stands etc. No need to monitor in the field you'll have two cheap mics and two cheap preamps per musician and will have someone else mix it all later in some unnamed open source application on a Linux box. Please come back and cross post again to the same newsgroups and let us know how it worked out for you. |
#19
Posted to alt.audio.microphones,rec.arts.movies.production.sound,rec.audio.tech
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90 degrees in the shade - mic failure?
"Charles Tomaras" wrote ...
"Beta Zero" wrote ... You posted on a professional sound newsgroup asking for professional opinions You sure about that? You appear to be the only one unsure. Can you post the charters for the relevant newsgroups offended? They are in the usual places to be viewed by anyone interested. It appears unlikely that if we did your research for you, it would change your attitude or behavior. |
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