Ignoramus1606 wrote:
I am soundproofing this generator:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

This is a followup to my question on soundproofing it.

I found some lead sheet at our local roofing supplier. 2.5 lbs per
square foot (approximately 1 mm thick), $28 per 3x3' square, which
works out to $3.11 per square foot. I hope that combined with a 1/2"
plywood shell, (which already gives me 5dB reduction), I can
accomplish 5-10 more decibel sound reduction if I use lead sheet on 5
sides of the enclosure (4 sides and the top), and seal the edges
better.

If I get 10 decibels total sound reduction, it will be acceptable, if
I get 15, I will be in heavens. The noise from the unshielded genset
at 10 feet is 85 dB. So, 15 dB reduction would give me 70 decibel
noise.

If anyone has a good idea why this is a stupid plan, I will be greatly
thankful if you can post your thoughts tonight, before Igo there early
tomorrow.

Thanks, as always,

i
It seems the Greater Sound Reduction (GSR) would occur at the
boundary between air and solid (plywood or lead), rather than
within a substance (my wag). GSR may be better if the lead squares
are mounted on standoffs. A quick google did not answer whether my
wag is true or false.

"Ed Earl Ross" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus1606 wrote:
I am soundproofing this generator:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

This is a followup to my question on soundproofing it.

I found some lead sheet at our local roofing supplier. 2.5 lbs per
square foot (approximately 1 mm thick), $28 per 3x3' square, which
works out to $3.11 per square foot. I hope that combined with a 1/2"
plywood shell, (which already gives me 5dB reduction), I can
accomplish 5-10 more decibel sound reduction if I use lead sheet on 5
sides of the enclosure (4 sides and the top), and seal the edges
better.

If I get 10 decibels total sound reduction, it will be acceptable, if
I get 15, I will be in heavens. The noise from the unshielded genset
at 10 feet is 85 dB. So, 15 dB reduction would give me 70 decibel
noise.

If anyone has a good idea why this is a stupid plan, I will be greatly
thankful if you can post your thoughts tonight, before Igo there early
tomorrow.

Thanks, as always,

i
It seems the Greater Sound Reduction (GSR) would occur at the
boundary between air and solid (plywood or lead), rather than
within a substance (my wag). GSR may be better if the lead squares
are mounted on standoffs. A quick google did not answer whether my
wag is true or false.

In sound studio construction, the dead air in double wall construction is
considered key.
However, lead is in a special category, because it is extraordinarily
efficient at absorbing vibration.

I speculate that if the lead is mounted on standoffs, fatigue cracking will
appear near the points of attachment.
I have not seen freestanding lead used.
In movie cameras, lead is applied directly to the inside of the film
magazine, right up against the aluminum casting.

In "Robert Morein" writes:

[ plenty snipped ]

I found some lead sheet at our local roofing supplier. 2.5 lbs per
square foot (approximately 1 mm thick), $28 per 3x3' square, which

However, lead is in a special category, because it is extraordinarily
efficient at absorbing vibration.

I have not seen freestanding lead used.
In movie cameras, lead is applied directly to the inside of the film
magazine, right up against the aluminum casting.

In the good Old Days before environmental concerns took hold, thick lead
foil was commonly used as a sound baffle around pipes and other tricky and
space constricted items. A favorite in NYC was wrapping it around
incinerator chutes.




--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Ignoramus1606 wrote in news:csp4u7$bhp
:

I am soundproofing this generator:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

This is a followup to my question on soundproofing it.

I found some lead sheet at our local roofing supplier. 2.5 lbs per
square foot (approximately 1 mm thick), $28 per 3x3' square, which
works out to $3.11 per square foot. I hope that combined with a 1/2"
plywood shell, (which already gives me 5dB reduction), I can
accomplish 5-10 more decibel sound reduction if I use lead sheet on 5
sides of the enclosure (4 sides and the top), and seal the edges
better.

If I get 10 decibels total sound reduction, it will be acceptable, if
I get 15, I will be in heavens. The noise from the unshielded genset
at 10 feet is 85 dB. So, 15 dB reduction would give me 70 decibel
noise.

If anyone has a good idea why this is a stupid plan, I will be greatly
thankful if you can post your thoughts tonight, before Igo there early
tomorrow.

Thanks, as always,

i

I believe this is a diesel generator and as such there are 2 things that
need to be addressed before you start and that is the intake and exhaust.
Did you know that most of the noise from a diesel somes from the intake and
exhaust? As a matter of fact some diesel pickup trucks have a muffler on
the air intake? At the Cummins school years ago they had a cummins diesel
engine running at full power but the exhaust and intake were routed to
outside the building. It was so quiet that one could carry on a normal
conversation standing 2 feet away from the engine. Outside the building
the noise level was quite impressive. Once you have the exhaust and intake
directed to the outside, then you can attack if necessary the remaining
noise levels of the motor. Don't forget that the exhaust gases will get
quite hot under load.

Good Luck

BTW Cummins and Onan are parts of the same company. Onan makes a great
engine as does Cummins.

r

Ignoramus1606 wrote in
:

I am soundproofing this generator:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

This is a followup to my question on soundproofing it.

I found some lead sheet at our local roofing supplier. 2.5 lbs per
square foot (approximately 1 mm thick), $28 per 3x3' square, which
works out to $3.11 per square foot. I hope that combined with a 1/2"
plywood shell, (which already gives me 5dB reduction), I can
accomplish 5-10 more decibel sound reduction if I use lead sheet on 5
sides of the enclosure (4 sides and the top), and seal the edges
better.

If I get 10 decibels total sound reduction, it will be acceptable, if
I get 15, I will be in heavens. The noise from the unshielded genset
at 10 feet is 85 dB. So, 15 dB reduction would give me 70 decibel
noise.

If anyone has a good idea why this is a stupid plan, I will be greatly
thankful if you can post your thoughts tonight, before Igo there early
tomorrow.

Thanks, as always,

i

I had a insulation installation company bring in for repair a trailer
mounted insulation blower once. It was inside a 10x10x30 foot long trailer,
and the engine, a B+S vanguard v-twin was about 6 feet inside the trailer
rear door. The engine installer did a good job unstalling a duct in the
floor to the cooling air inlet at the flywheel screen, and all was well
until one day one of the workers knocked off the duct while moving supplies
or something, we never found out. This missing duct allowed the engine
cooling air to "recycle", i.e. the hot cooling air exhaust went back in to
the cooling air intake. This was with a 10'x10' door open only six feet
away, mind you. After almost a full day with inadequate cooling the engine
oil looked like tar and was about as thick. Total engine destruction
due to inadequate cooling was the result.
I hope you have provided a way for the engine to cool itself, the
box you are describing sounds a lot like that trailer.
Air cooled engines make about the same watts in heat as the generator makes
electrical power, i.e. 5 kw generator makes 5 kw heated air
Scott

"Ignoramus1606" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:10:30 GMT, Rich.Andrews wrote:
[snip]
that I plan on addressing with some baffling.

I am also thinking of spraying or gluing some vibration absorber to
the sheet metal pieces on the engine. Would it make sense to you?

i

I have a feeling that the intense vibration would cause the stuff to degrade
at an accelerated rate. Perhaps it would be manageable.

Ignoramus1606 wrote:
I am soundproofing this generator:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

This is a followup to my question on soundproofing it.

I found some lead sheet at our local roofing supplier. 2.5 lbs per
square foot (approximately 1 mm thick), $28 per 3x3' square, which
works out to $3.11 per square foot. I hope that combined with a 1/2"
plywood shell, (which already gives me 5dB reduction), I can
accomplish 5-10 more decibel sound reduction if I use lead sheet on 5
sides of the enclosure (4 sides and the top), and seal the edges
better.

If I get 10 decibels total sound reduction, it will be acceptable, if
I get 15, I will be in heavens. The noise from the unshielded genset
at 10 feet is 85 dB. So, 15 dB reduction would give me 70 decibel
noise.

If anyone has a good idea why this is a stupid plan, I will be
greatly
thankful if you can post your thoughts tonight, before Igo there
early
tomorrow.

Thanks, as always,

i

Some years back, our company had to soundproof some industrial
machinery that emitted wide spectrum of noise. Local supplier of
soundproofing material provided sheets of material with layers of
~.060" lead, ~.100" foam, ~.030" plastic (like vinyl). Lead side would
face out (free of skin of machine.)

This was surprisingly effective, but don't ask for specific db
reduction at freq. At least it enabled us to meet customer rqmts.,
deliver, and collect.

John

You don't want to staple it. The staples will transfer the vibrations and
therefore noise to the plywood. The best answer is some sort of glue like
liquid nails.

..



"Ignoramus13187" wrote in message
...
On 21 Jan 2005 10:59:39 -0800,
wrote:
Some years back, our company had to soundproof some industrial
machinery that emitted wide spectrum of noise. Local supplier of
soundproofing material provided sheets of material with layers of
~.060" lead, ~.100" foam, ~.030" plastic (like vinyl). Lead side would
face out (free of skin of machine.)

This was surprisingly effective, but don't ask for specific db
reduction at freq. At least it enabled us to meet customer rqmts.,
deliver, and collect.

Thanks. My own insulation will be 1/2" of plywood, coupled with 1 mm
thick lead sheet. 1mm is approximately 0.04".

i

3M spray on adhesive is great for that.

"Robert Bates" wrote in message ...
You don't want to staple it. The staples will transfer the vibrations and
therefore noise to the plywood. The best answer is some sort of glue like
liquid nails.

.



"Ignoramus13187" wrote in message
...
On 21 Jan 2005 10:59:39 -0800,
wrote:
Some years back, our company had to soundproof some industrial
machinery that emitted wide spectrum of noise. Local supplier of
soundproofing material provided sheets of material with layers of
~.060" lead, ~.100" foam, ~.030" plastic (like vinyl). Lead side would
face out (free of skin of machine.)

This was surprisingly effective, but don't ask for specific db
reduction at freq. At least it enabled us to meet customer rqmts.,
deliver, and collect.

Thanks. My own insulation will be 1/2" of plywood, coupled with 1 mm
thick lead sheet. 1mm is approximately 0.04".

i

In article ,
Ignoramus13187 wrote:

On 21 Jan 2005 10:59:39 -0800,
wrote:
Some years back, our company had to soundproof some industrial
machinery that emitted wide spectrum of noise. Local supplier of
soundproofing material provided sheets of material with layers of
~.060" lead, ~.100" foam, ~.030" plastic (like vinyl). Lead side would
face out (free of skin of machine.)

This was surprisingly effective, but don't ask for specific db
reduction at freq. At least it enabled us to meet customer rqmts.,
deliver, and collect.

Thanks. My own insulation will be 1/2" of plywood, coupled with 1 mm
thick lead sheet. 1mm is approximately 0.04".

i

A soft inside is important. You need to actually absorb the sound
energy and turn it into heat. A hard enclosure will just bounce the
sound around more until it comes out anyways. Some DIY audio shops sell
a mat made to line the insides of speakers. It works very well on top
of dense wood to absorb sound energy.

I'm surprised they still sell it, much less for exterior use where
runoff goes into the ground and polutes the groundwater.

My employer is spending millions of dollars to get rid of
less than an ounce of lead in our products, and you are going
out and exposing several pounds of it to the elements? Hope
you don't have any small children or animals in the vicinity.

Shaking head in amazement.

"Ignoramus22756" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 07:47:21 -0800, Richard Crowley
wrote:
I'm surprised they still sell it, much less for exterior use where
runoff goes into the ground and polutes the groundwater.

My employer is spending millions of dollars to get rid of
less than an ounce of lead in our products, and you are going
out and exposing several pounds of it to the elements? Hope
you don't have any small children or animals in the vicinity.

Shaking head in amazement.

The lead will be inside the plywood compartment, not exposed to
elements.

Riiiiight.

Richard Crowley wrote:

"Ignoramus22756" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 07:47:21 -0800, Richard Crowley
wrote:

I'm surprised they still sell it, much less for exterior use where
runoff goes into the ground and polutes the groundwater.

My employer is spending millions of dollars to get rid of
less than an ounce of lead in our products, and you are going
out and exposing several pounds of it to the elements? Hope
you don't have any small children or animals in the vicinity.

Shaking head in amazement.


The lead will be inside the plywood compartment, not exposed to
elements.


Riiiiight.

Lead is still used AFAIK as a roofing material. Very much in evidence
on historic buildings. Also concider the number of houses STILL served
by lead waterpipes. Does it degrade at all? Is this not one of the big
problems with the stuff?

3M is the leader in adhesives.

http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/e...Cgv/vroot_WHG0
MWH6QPge/gvel_VJ9R6TT0WDgl/theme_us_adhesivetape_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html

or Marine products
http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/e...er/output_html



"Ignoramus13187" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:05:01 -0800, Robert Bates wrote:
You don't want to staple it. The staples will transfer the vibrations and
therefore noise to the plywood. The best answer is some sort of glue like
liquid nails.

Thanks. I would like to know what is the source of your knowledge.
Specifically, how do you know that liquid nails would in fact hold
lead and would not separate.

i

.



"Ignoramus13187" wrote in message
...
On 21 Jan 2005 10:59:39 -0800,
wrote:
Some years back, our company had to soundproof some industrial
machinery that emitted wide spectrum of noise. Local supplier of
soundproofing material provided sheets of material with layers of
~.060" lead, ~.100" foam, ~.030" plastic (like vinyl). Lead side would
face out (free of skin of machine.)

This was surprisingly effective, but don't ask for specific db
reduction at freq. At least it enabled us to meet customer rqmts.,
deliver, and collect.

Thanks. My own insulation will be 1/2" of plywood, coupled with 1 mm
thick lead sheet. 1mm is approximately 0.04".

i




--

The glue type was a shot in the dark. The no holes came from an acoustical
engineer on a bus conversion my father and grandfather did and the lead was
on the floor so holding it in position was easy. The engineer did say if
you must have nails, glue a small piece of lead over the heads.


"Ignoramus13187" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:05:01 -0800, Robert Bates
wrote:
You don't want to staple it. The staples will transfer the vibrations
and
therefore noise to the plywood. The best answer is some sort of glue
like
liquid nails.

Thanks. I would like to know what is the source of your knowledge.
Specifically, how do you know that liquid nails would in fact hold
lead and would not separate.

i

.



"Ignoramus13187" wrote in message
...
On 21 Jan 2005 10:59:39 -0800,

wrote:
Some years back, our company had to soundproof some industrial
machinery that emitted wide spectrum of noise. Local supplier of
soundproofing material provided sheets of material with layers of
~.060" lead, ~.100" foam, ~.030" plastic (like vinyl). Lead side
would
face out (free of skin of machine.)

This was surprisingly effective, but don't ask for specific db
reduction at freq. At least it enabled us to meet customer rqmts.,
deliver, and collect.

Thanks. My own insulation will be 1/2" of plywood, coupled with 1 mm
thick lead sheet. 1mm is approximately 0.04".

i




--

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised they still sell it, much less for exterior use where
runoff goes into the ground and polutes the groundwater.

My employer is spending millions of dollars to get rid of
less than an ounce of lead in our products, and you are going
out and exposing several pounds of it to the elements? Hope
you don't have any small children or animals in the vicinity.

Shaking head in amazement.

The reason they are getting rid of it in solder has to do with the inability
to insure correct disposal of electronic devices, not the presence of lead
in operating ones.

I'm skeptical that dripping water could carry off a dangerous amount of it.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised they still sell it, much less for exterior use where
runoff goes into the ground and polutes the groundwater.

My employer is spending millions of dollars to get rid of
less than an ounce of lead in our products, and you are going
out and exposing several pounds of it to the elements? Hope
you don't have any small children or animals in the vicinity.

Shaking head in amazement.

The reason they are getting rid of it in solder has to do with the
inability
to insure correct disposal of electronic devices, not the presence of
lead
in operating ones.

I'm skeptical that dripping water could carry off a dangerous amount
of it.

And yet seeping water in landfills is exactly why the EU
is making it illegal. Go figure.

In article ,
"Robert Morein" wrote:

I'm skeptical that dripping water could carry off a dangerous amount of it.

depends on the PH of the water..........

Me

"Robert Morein" wrote in
:


"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised they still sell it, much less for exterior use where
runoff goes into the ground and polutes the groundwater.

My employer is spending millions of dollars to get rid of
less than an ounce of lead in our products, and you are going
out and exposing several pounds of it to the elements? Hope
you don't have any small children or animals in the vicinity.

Shaking head in amazement.

The reason they are getting rid of it in solder has to do with the
inability to insure correct disposal of electronic devices, not the
presence of lead in operating ones.

I'm skeptical that dripping water could carry off a dangerous amount
of it.



Could give these guys a try instead of lead:

http://www.dynamat.com/

-Bruce

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised they still sell it, much less for exterior use where
runoff goes into the ground and polutes the groundwater.

My employer is spending millions of dollars to get rid of less than an
ounce of lead in our products, and you are going out and exposing several
pounds of it to the elements? Hope
you don't have any small children or animals in the vicinity.

Shaking head in amazement.

Lead occurs in nature. What was God thinking???

Ignoramus1606 wrote in
:

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:10:30 GMT, Rich.Andrews
wrote:
Ignoramus1606 wrote in
news:csp4u7$bhp :

I am soundproofing this generator:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

This is a followup to my question on soundproofing it.

I found some lead sheet at our local roofing supplier. 2.5 lbs per
square foot (approximately 1 mm thick), $28 per 3x3' square, which
works out to $3.11 per square foot. I hope that combined with a 1/2"
plywood shell, (which already gives me 5dB reduction), I can
accomplish 5-10 more decibel sound reduction if I use lead sheet on 5
sides of the enclosure (4 sides and the top), and seal the edges
better.

If I get 10 decibels total sound reduction, it will be acceptable, if
I get 15, I will be in heavens. The noise from the unshielded genset
at 10 feet is 85 dB. So, 15 dB reduction would give me 70 decibel
noise.

If anyone has a good idea why this is a stupid plan, I will be greatly
thankful if you can post your thoughts tonight, before Igo there early
tomorrow.

Thanks, as always,

i

I believe this is a diesel generator and as such there are 2 things
that need to be addressed before you start and that is the intake and
exhaust. Did you know that most of the noise from a diesel somes from
the intake and exhaust?

The exhaust issue has been addressed. I have a tractor muffler that is
surprisingly quiet. I ran my genset in the garage and routed exhaust
outside. It was almost completely quiet.

The intake of air is a good question, but, given relatively low HP and
volume (70 ci, 1800 RPM), it is not much.

Whatever goes out must come in, so I would route the air intake from the
outside as well. That should reduce noise a significant amount.



What is much more serious is the fact that this engine is
aircooled. It sucks cold air in from the side that says ONAN in big
letters, and exhausts warm air from the back. I route that air
outside with the help of some HVAC stuff.


Not only is the engine air cooled, so is the alternator. The fan noise
would be rather loud. If it were me, I would build a "dog house" for it
outside. When I needed it I would take the doors off and fire it up.

As a matter of fact some diesel pickup trucks have a muffler on
the air intake? At the Cummins school years ago they had a cummins
diesel engine running at full power but the exhaust and intake were
routed to outside the building. It was so quiet that one could carry
on a normal conversation standing 2 feet away from the engine. Outside
the building the noise level was quite impressive. Once you have the
exhaust and intake directed to the outside, then you can attack if
necessary the remaining noise levels of the motor. Don't forget that
the exhaust gases will get quite hot under load.

Thanks. Exhaust has been taken care of. Cooling is an open question
that I plan on addressing with some baffling.

I am also thinking of spraying or gluing some vibration absorber to
the sheet metal pieces on the engine. Would it make sense to you?

i


What seems obvious sometimes isn't the solution. It will take some
careful analysis to properly quite down the critter. There is a reason
why all the data centers I have seen have their generators outside and
isolated from the main buiilding. I assume you are determined to keep it
indoors. When you get it to the point where the fan noise is most of what
you hear, you are getting close. A cheap RS SPL meter might help locate
the noise sources. When you get it to the point where the fan noise is
the primary culprit, you will likely have to build a sound isolation booth
for it with proper air intake and exhaust for cooling the alternator and
engine. Don't forget to calculate back pressure on the exhaust system.
One elbow is the equivalent of adding something like 10 to 20 feet of
pipe. Too little backpressure is as bad as not enough.

Applying sound absorbant material to the engine covers might be helpful in
reducing valve train noise but that could be detrimental to the proper
cooling of an engine. When we would dyno test 871 GMC diesels it would be
before the engine was painted. After painting the engine, we would test
it once more and the coolant temp would go up about 15 degrees when under
full load.

I keep imagining an old printer sound booth only on a bigger scale for
your application.

You might try wrapping the exhaust pipe with some asbestos like wrap to
keep the noise down as well. Tap it with a screwdriver and see if it
rings. Sound travels through steel much faster than through air.

Did you call you local Onan dealer to see if Onan makes a low noise kit
for that genpack? You could call the factory and see what they have to
say about it. They like talking to customers. My son talked to the
founders son or grandson and he is a nice guy. He was also the current
head honcho at the time.

r

"Karl Uppiano" wrote in message
news:Nn0Jd.10960$J6.4477@trnddc02...

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised they still sell it, much less for exterior use where
runoff goes into the ground and polutes the groundwater.

My employer is spending millions of dollars to get rid of less than
an ounce of lead in our products, and you are going out and exposing
several pounds of it to the elements? Hope
you don't have any small children or animals in the vicinity.

Shaking head in amazement.

Lead occurs in nature. What was God thinking???

And Arsenic and Ebola and the radioactive isotopes
all occur in nature as well. But God didn't refine them
or displace them to the point of being dangerous. We
did that to ourselves.

Ignoramus18155 wrote in
:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 03:56:28 GMT, Rich.Andrews
wrote:
Ignoramus1606 wrote in
:

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:10:30 GMT, Rich.Andrews
wrote:
Ignoramus1606 wrote in
news:csp4u7$bhp :

I am soundproofing this generator:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

This is a followup to my question on soundproofing it.

I found some lead sheet at our local roofing supplier. 2.5 lbs per
square foot (approximately 1 mm thick), $28 per 3x3' square, which
works out to $3.11 per square foot. I hope that combined with a 1/2"
plywood shell, (which already gives me 5dB reduction), I can
accomplish 5-10 more decibel sound reduction if I use lead sheet on
5 sides of the enclosure (4 sides and the top), and seal the edges
better.

If I get 10 decibels total sound reduction, it will be acceptable,
if I get 15, I will be in heavens. The noise from the unshielded
genset at 10 feet is 85 dB. So, 15 dB reduction would give me 70
decibel noise.

If anyone has a good idea why this is a stupid plan, I will be
greatly thankful if you can post your thoughts tonight, before Igo
there early tomorrow.

Thanks, as always,

i

I believe this is a diesel generator and as such there are 2 things
that need to be addressed before you start and that is the intake and
exhaust. Did you know that most of the noise from a diesel somes
from the intake and exhaust?

The exhaust issue has been addressed. I have a tractor muffler that is
surprisingly quiet. I ran my genset in the garage and routed exhaust
outside. It was almost completely quiet.

The intake of air is a good question, but, given relatively low HP and
volume (70 ci, 1800 RPM), it is not much.

Whatever goes out must come in, so I would route the air intake from
the outside as well. That should reduce noise a significant amount.

Agreed.



What is much more serious is the fact that this engine is
aircooled. It sucks cold air in from the side that says ONAN in big
letters, and exhausts warm air from the back. I route that air
outside with the help of some HVAC stuff.


Not only is the engine air cooled, so is the alternator. The fan noise
would be rather loud. If it were me, I would build a "dog house" for
it outside. When I needed it I would take the doors off and fire it
up.

Yes, it will be outside, and I did build the dog house

see

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/Enclosure


Great pics.


As a matter of fact some diesel pickup trucks have a muffler on
the air intake? At the Cummins school years ago they had a cummins
diesel engine running at full power but the exhaust and intake were
routed to outside the building. It was so quiet that one could carry
on a normal conversation standing 2 feet away from the engine.
Outside the building the noise level was quite impressive. Once you
have the exhaust and intake directed to the outside, then you can
attack if necessary the remaining noise levels of the motor. Don't
forget that the exhaust gases will get quite hot under load.

Thanks. Exhaust has been taken care of. Cooling is an open question
that I plan on addressing with some baffling.

I am also thinking of spraying or gluing some vibration absorber to
the sheet metal pieces on the engine. Would it make sense to you?

i


What seems obvious sometimes isn't the solution. It will take some
careful analysis to properly quite down the critter. There is a reason
why all the data centers I have seen have their generators outside and
isolated from the main buiilding. I assume you are determined to keep
it indoors.

No, I am determined to keep it outdoors.

my apologies...i misunderstood.



When you get it to the point where the fan noise is most of what
you hear, you are getting close. A cheap RS SPL meter might help
locate the noise sources.


I have a digital SPL meter.



that will work fine. Point it at different areas and see what needs work.
Some thick foam rubber will quiet down your plywood enclosure. Maybe
some syrofoam insulboard will work.



All I know is that Onan parts for my 26 year old genset are very
expensive.

i


Onan parts are expensive no matter what. Thankfully they don't break
often. There were 3rd party parts suppliers but I don't know if they
still exist. I have an 18 Hp Onan gas engine on my lawn tractor. Runs
great and will likely outlast me. I had to buy 2 exhaust pipes and two
mufflers for it this year. Cost me in excess of $120.00. I almost made
the pipes myself but I needed it in a hurry.

r

scott wrote in news:Xns95E4D344CC635nunya@
207.115.63.158:

Air cooled engines make about the same watts in heat as the generator makes
electrical power, i.e. 5 kw generator makes 5 kw heated air
Scott

Yes, that is true.

We would figure the electric bill for computers and add that same dollar
amount for AC to keep it cool. It was within pennies of each other.

r

"Rich.Andrews" wrote in message
...
scott wrote in news:Xns95E4D344CC635nunya@
207.115.63.158:

Air cooled engines make about the same watts in heat as the generator
makes
electrical power, i.e. 5 kw generator makes 5 kw heated air
Scott

Yes, that is true.

We would figure the electric bill for computers and add that same
dollar
amount for AC to keep it cool. It was within pennies of each other.

Well, ALL of the power that goes into computer equipment
ultimately leaves the other end of the equation as heat.

Lead occurs in nature. What was God thinking???

And Arsenic and Ebola and the radioactive isotopes
all occur in nature as well. But God didn't refine them
or displace them to the point of being dangerous. We
did that to ourselves.

There are things in nature that are quite dangerous in their naturally
occurring state (sunlight, falling rock, tsunamis, to name a few). On the
other hand, we regularly go off the deep end over "man made" hazards without
considering the trade-offs. Lead and asbestos are quite useful, and probably
nowhere near as risky as we now make them appear. I always have to laugh
when I see the men in space suits removing insulation from old houses.

Junk science is just new age superstition. We over-react to most risks,
probably through fear of lawsuits, or perhaps due to shyster lawyers that
figure they can profit from said superstition.

Ignoramus26155 wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 07:04:01 GMT, Karl Uppiano wrote:
....
Junk science is just new age superstition. We over-react to most risks,
probably through fear of lawsuits, or perhaps due to shyster lawyers that
figure they can profit from said superstition.

The key is to look at particular circumstances and understand whether
they specifically present dangers. Lead sheet that is enclosed in an
enclosure like mine:
....
would, arguably, not present any danger.

Arguably is the point. One could argue both sides of the proposition but
when it comes down to it, using a hazardous material presents a hazard.

Why do it if you don't have to?

Anthony

"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message
news:xkuJd.27048$Os6.2882@trnddc08...
Ignoramus26155 wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 07:04:01 GMT, Karl Uppiano
wrote:
...
Junk science is just new age superstition. We over-react to most risks,
probably through fear of lawsuits, or perhaps due to shyster lawyers that
figure they can profit from said superstition.

The key is to look at particular circumstances and understand whether
they specifically present dangers. Lead sheet that is enclosed in an
enclosure like mine:
...
would, arguably, not present any danger.

Arguably is the point. One could argue both sides of the proposition but
when it comes down to it, using a hazardous material presents a hazard.

Why do it if you don't have to?

That all depends if the hazard is over-rated, and whether the proposed
benefit outweighs any hazard. Everything is a trade-off. It's unwise to
prioritize a single issue over everything else. I can think of more
effective materials for acoustic isolation, so that tips the scale slightly
to the hazardous argument.