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Would you build this DIY project?
Hi folks:
Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? It's a microphone preamp, solid state, transformer in (Jensen), transformerless balanced +4dBu out with a separate -10dBV unbalanced out. IC based, up to 8 channels in a 2U case, plus separate power pack. Phantom on all channels, 100Hz rolloff selectable on all channels, otherwise no EQ. Designed to be comparable to the Sytek in price, performance and feature set, but with transformer-coupled inputs. All parts obtainable (to North Americans, at any rate) from Digi-Key and Allied Electronics, except for the transformers, which come directly from Jensen. On-card regulation. Like the Sytek, there are some optional choices in what ICs you use. Approximate costs are as follows. These include everything except the cases, which are up to you. At the moment I'm assuming the PC boards would cost $25.00 / ea.; that's the biggest unknown in the equation. I can't really fill that in until I design the boards, and I'm not gonna do that until I find out whether anybody's interested. (Also, of course, price of the boards will vary depending on how many I order.) There are options which will raise the price, and some that will lower it, but this is the basic design. Each input channel: $220.00 Power Supply: $120.00 So a 4-channel unit would cost almost exactly $1k, not counting boxes. An 8-channel would be $1880, ditto. I'd make my slice selling the PC boards and writing it up for the magazines. Any interest? Peace, Paul |
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#2
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#3
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#4
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"Paul Stamler" wrote ...
Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? Yes, it would appeal to me as a DIY project. I'd appreciate a bit more detail on the $220/channel costing. |
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#5
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"Paul Stamler" wrote ...
Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? Yes, it would appeal to me as a DIY project. I'd appreciate a bit more detail on the $220/channel costing. |
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#6
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How much to build the powersupply? I assume we'd be building it. I'd be
interested. I love reading the DIY also. Still want to piece together a few of Scott Dorsey's passive EQ's. I hope it'd sound pretty awesome 220 per channel is a bit of cash. I won't say steep but it is a DIY project for almost 2 grand. (If you do 8 channels) mark me down for interest peaked. On 2004-11-12 12:48:21 -0800, "Paul Stamler" said: Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? It's a microphone preamp, solid state, transformer in (Jensen), transformerless balanced +4dBu out with a separate -10dBV unbalanced out. IC based, up to 8 channels in a 2U case, plus separate power pack. Phantom on all channels, 100Hz rolloff selectable on all channels, otherwise no EQ. Designed to be comparable to the Sytek in price, performance and feature set, but with transformer-coupled inputs. All parts obtainable (to North Americans, at any rate) from Digi-Key and Allied Electronics, except for the transformers, which come directly from Jensen. On-card regulation. Like the Sytek, there are some optional choices in what ICs you use. Approximate costs are as follows. These include everything except the cases, which are up to you. At the moment I'm assuming the PC boards would cost $25.00 / ea.; that's the biggest unknown in the equation. I can't really fill that in until I design the boards, and I'm not gonna do that until I find out whether anybody's interested. (Also, of course, price of the boards will vary depending on how many I order.) There are options which will raise the price, and some that will lower it, but this is the basic design. Each input channel: $220.00 Power Supply: $120.00 So a 4-channel unit would cost almost exactly $1k, not counting boxes. An 8-channel would be $1880, ditto. I'd make my slice selling the PC boards and writing it up for the magazines. Any interest? Peace, Paul |
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#7
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How much to build the powersupply? I assume we'd be building it. I'd be
interested. I love reading the DIY also. Still want to piece together a few of Scott Dorsey's passive EQ's. I hope it'd sound pretty awesome 220 per channel is a bit of cash. I won't say steep but it is a DIY project for almost 2 grand. (If you do 8 channels) mark me down for interest peaked. On 2004-11-12 12:48:21 -0800, "Paul Stamler" said: Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? It's a microphone preamp, solid state, transformer in (Jensen), transformerless balanced +4dBu out with a separate -10dBV unbalanced out. IC based, up to 8 channels in a 2U case, plus separate power pack. Phantom on all channels, 100Hz rolloff selectable on all channels, otherwise no EQ. Designed to be comparable to the Sytek in price, performance and feature set, but with transformer-coupled inputs. All parts obtainable (to North Americans, at any rate) from Digi-Key and Allied Electronics, except for the transformers, which come directly from Jensen. On-card regulation. Like the Sytek, there are some optional choices in what ICs you use. Approximate costs are as follows. These include everything except the cases, which are up to you. At the moment I'm assuming the PC boards would cost $25.00 / ea.; that's the biggest unknown in the equation. I can't really fill that in until I design the boards, and I'm not gonna do that until I find out whether anybody's interested. (Also, of course, price of the boards will vary depending on how many I order.) There are options which will raise the price, and some that will lower it, but this is the basic design. Each input channel: $220.00 Power Supply: $120.00 So a 4-channel unit would cost almost exactly $1k, not counting boxes. An 8-channel would be $1880, ditto. I'd make my slice selling the PC boards and writing it up for the magazines. Any interest? Peace, Paul |
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#8
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You could probably find a suitable Bud box for it. I do agree the
pricing is something to consider still. cheers garrett On 2004-11-12 17:37:14 -0800, (Mike Rivers) said: I think that the average DIYer today would find that to be too much cash to put into a project, particularly since it involves a case and considerable metalworking skill to make a unit that looks decent. You might sell about ten, and you know what Recording pays for articles. g |
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#9
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You could probably find a suitable Bud box for it. I do agree the
pricing is something to consider still. cheers garrett On 2004-11-12 17:37:14 -0800, (Mike Rivers) said: I think that the average DIYer today would find that to be too much cash to put into a project, particularly since it involves a case and considerable metalworking skill to make a unit that looks decent. You might sell about ten, and you know what Recording pays for articles. g |
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#10
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You might try bouncing this around at the 'lab' forum at prodigy. There
is a lot of pro audio DIY stuff going on there. http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/index.php Brian Paul Stamler wrote: Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? It's a microphone preamp, solid state, transformer in (Jensen), transformerless balanced +4dBu out with a separate -10dBV unbalanced out. IC based, up to 8 channels in a 2U case, plus separate power pack. Phantom on all channels, 100Hz rolloff selectable on all channels, otherwise no EQ. Designed to be comparable to the Sytek in price, performance and feature set, but with transformer-coupled inputs. All parts obtainable (to North Americans, at any rate) from Digi-Key and Allied Electronics, except for the transformers, which come directly from Jensen. On-card regulation. Like the Sytek, there are some optional choices in what ICs you use. Approximate costs are as follows. These include everything except the cases, which are up to you. At the moment I'm assuming the PC boards would cost $25.00 / ea.; that's the biggest unknown in the equation. I can't really fill that in until I design the boards, and I'm not gonna do that until I find out whether anybody's interested. (Also, of course, price of the boards will vary depending on how many I order.) There are options which will raise the price, and some that will lower it, but this is the basic design. Each input channel: $220.00 Power Supply: $120.00 So a 4-channel unit would cost almost exactly $1k, not counting boxes. An 8-channel would be $1880, ditto. I'd make my slice selling the PC boards and writing it up for the magazines. Any interest? Peace, Paul |
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#11
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You might try bouncing this around at the 'lab' forum at prodigy. There
is a lot of pro audio DIY stuff going on there. http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/index.php Brian Paul Stamler wrote: Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? It's a microphone preamp, solid state, transformer in (Jensen), transformerless balanced +4dBu out with a separate -10dBV unbalanced out. IC based, up to 8 channels in a 2U case, plus separate power pack. Phantom on all channels, 100Hz rolloff selectable on all channels, otherwise no EQ. Designed to be comparable to the Sytek in price, performance and feature set, but with transformer-coupled inputs. All parts obtainable (to North Americans, at any rate) from Digi-Key and Allied Electronics, except for the transformers, which come directly from Jensen. On-card regulation. Like the Sytek, there are some optional choices in what ICs you use. Approximate costs are as follows. These include everything except the cases, which are up to you. At the moment I'm assuming the PC boards would cost $25.00 / ea.; that's the biggest unknown in the equation. I can't really fill that in until I design the boards, and I'm not gonna do that until I find out whether anybody's interested. (Also, of course, price of the boards will vary depending on how many I order.) There are options which will raise the price, and some that will lower it, but this is the basic design. Each input channel: $220.00 Power Supply: $120.00 So a 4-channel unit would cost almost exactly $1k, not counting boxes. An 8-channel would be $1880, ditto. I'd make my slice selling the PC boards and writing it up for the magazines. Any interest? Peace, Paul |
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#12
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In article znr1100301967k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:
I think that the average DIYer today would find that to be too much cash to put into a project, particularly since it involves a case and considerable metalworking skill to make a unit that looks decent. You might sell about ten, and you know what Recording pays for articles. g Skip the input transformer. Go transformerless with the THAT large area transistors, and save fifty bucks a channel that way. Get prepunched cases available from SESCOM or one of the other custom cabinet guys. That's the real rub on these things and it's also a substantial part of the total cost. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#13
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In article znr1100301967k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:
I think that the average DIYer today would find that to be too much cash to put into a project, particularly since it involves a case and considerable metalworking skill to make a unit that looks decent. You might sell about ten, and you know what Recording pays for articles. g Skip the input transformer. Go transformerless with the THAT large area transistors, and save fifty bucks a channel that way. Get prepunched cases available from SESCOM or one of the other custom cabinet guys. That's the real rub on these things and it's also a substantial part of the total cost. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#14
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Mike Rivers wrote:
I think that the average DIYer today would find that to be too much cash to put into a project, particularly since it involves a case and considerable metalworking skill to make a unit that looks decent. Very true. With the RNP going for $475 new, what's the point (unless you just absolutely HAVE to have transformers). And why would you reall NEED transformers at that price point, since Shure 57s behave themselves pretty well with the RNP? |
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#15
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Mike Rivers wrote:
I think that the average DIYer today would find that to be too much cash to put into a project, particularly since it involves a case and considerable metalworking skill to make a unit that looks decent. Very true. With the RNP going for $475 new, what's the point (unless you just absolutely HAVE to have transformers). And why would you reall NEED transformers at that price point, since Shure 57s behave themselves pretty well with the RNP? |
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#16
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"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
... "Paul Stamler" wrote ... Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? Yes, it would appeal to me as a DIY project. I'd appreciate a bit more detail on the $220/channel costing. Uh, whoops -- I added something in twice. The cost would be closer to $175/channel. The design is a slimmed-down version of the "project-r" preamp I published in Recording several years ago. So 4 channels would cost $700, plus $140 for the power supply (that just went up -- sorry, this is still not quite a finished design) and whatever you wanted to spend for the boxes. $840 total; $1540 for 8 channels. The $175/channel breaks down this way (all figures rounded to nearest US$): Circuit board - $25 (that part's guesswork). Transformer - $67. Stage 1 - $33-36, depending on choice of chip. The bulk of that cost is the XLR, level control, and switches for the bass rolloff and the phantom on/off. Stage 2 - $15. Balanced output - $16. On-card regulators - $18. About the raw supply for $120: I freely admit it's over-designed. In the previous design I had a fairly normal power supply (with tons of capacitance) and a very fancy, two-stage regulator (317/337 pre-regulators in the box, plus Sulzer-type op-amp+pass-transistor regulators on the cards. That was fun, but it led some builders to problems; the same circuits that stayed perfectly stable for me, oscillated like crazy for them. Turns out I was using an older version of the 5534 chip in the regulators (Signetics), which is no longer available. The new ones are less stable in that circuit. Most of the folks who built the preamp ended up using TL071s in the regulators. But I digress. The new raw supply is one which pays somewhat fanatical attention to RFI-proofing, including filtering out the crud that comes from the diodes' switching off, and it incorporates some interesting things I learned about capacitors while researching an article which audioXpress will, I hope, manage to get into print soon. You probably could save several dollars on it if you have a good source of surplus 48VCT transformers handy. Or surplus 5-pin XLRs, chassis and cable mount, for the umbilicus. There are other ways of spending less on this design, notably by omitting the bass rolloff and/or phantom switches. There are a few ways of spending more, too, and getting higher performance, including fancier opamps in Stage 2 and substituting an LT1085 regulator for the LM317 on each card. Anyway, that's the bottom line, or family of them: About $175 for each channel, assuming my PC board number is right, about $140 for the power supply. Add boxes. As to Scott's suggestion of going transformerless: Why? For about the same amount of money I can get 4 or 8 channels of Sytek, which is excellent. The point of this design is to give a similar level of performance for those of us who want to use transformer-coupled inputs, for reasons of RFI-proofness, loading, whatever. Peace, Paul |
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#17
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"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
... "Paul Stamler" wrote ... Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? Yes, it would appeal to me as a DIY project. I'd appreciate a bit more detail on the $220/channel costing. Uh, whoops -- I added something in twice. The cost would be closer to $175/channel. The design is a slimmed-down version of the "project-r" preamp I published in Recording several years ago. So 4 channels would cost $700, plus $140 for the power supply (that just went up -- sorry, this is still not quite a finished design) and whatever you wanted to spend for the boxes. $840 total; $1540 for 8 channels. The $175/channel breaks down this way (all figures rounded to nearest US$): Circuit board - $25 (that part's guesswork). Transformer - $67. Stage 1 - $33-36, depending on choice of chip. The bulk of that cost is the XLR, level control, and switches for the bass rolloff and the phantom on/off. Stage 2 - $15. Balanced output - $16. On-card regulators - $18. About the raw supply for $120: I freely admit it's over-designed. In the previous design I had a fairly normal power supply (with tons of capacitance) and a very fancy, two-stage regulator (317/337 pre-regulators in the box, plus Sulzer-type op-amp+pass-transistor regulators on the cards. That was fun, but it led some builders to problems; the same circuits that stayed perfectly stable for me, oscillated like crazy for them. Turns out I was using an older version of the 5534 chip in the regulators (Signetics), which is no longer available. The new ones are less stable in that circuit. Most of the folks who built the preamp ended up using TL071s in the regulators. But I digress. The new raw supply is one which pays somewhat fanatical attention to RFI-proofing, including filtering out the crud that comes from the diodes' switching off, and it incorporates some interesting things I learned about capacitors while researching an article which audioXpress will, I hope, manage to get into print soon. You probably could save several dollars on it if you have a good source of surplus 48VCT transformers handy. Or surplus 5-pin XLRs, chassis and cable mount, for the umbilicus. There are other ways of spending less on this design, notably by omitting the bass rolloff and/or phantom switches. There are a few ways of spending more, too, and getting higher performance, including fancier opamps in Stage 2 and substituting an LT1085 regulator for the LM317 on each card. Anyway, that's the bottom line, or family of them: About $175 for each channel, assuming my PC board number is right, about $140 for the power supply. Add boxes. As to Scott's suggestion of going transformerless: Why? For about the same amount of money I can get 4 or 8 channels of Sytek, which is excellent. The point of this design is to give a similar level of performance for those of us who want to use transformer-coupled inputs, for reasons of RFI-proofness, loading, whatever. Peace, Paul |
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#18
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"agent86" wrote in message
.. . Mike Rivers wrote: I think that the average DIYer today would find that to be too much cash to put into a project, particularly since it involves a case and considerable metalworking skill to make a unit that looks decent. Very true. With the RNP going for $475 new, what's the point (unless you just absolutely HAVE to have transformers). And why would you reall NEED transformers at that price point, since Shure 57s behave themselves pretty well with the RNP? Revised cost estimate: 2 ch.: $490 4 ch.: $840 8 ch.: $1540 The idea is to provide up to 8 channels of preamp in a 2U box (plus the outboard power supply). 8 in a box for compactness, particularly for people doing remote work, or for folks who just want 8 identical good-quality preamps. It seems to be a pretty popular format at several price points; the one thing I notice, though, is that none of the 8-bangers out there are transformer-coupled, and some of us like transformers, for (as I mentioned) RFI-proofing, loading, whatever. So I'm looking to see whether there's a niche here. There wouldn't be, I don't think, for a manufactured version of this; the price would be prohibitive. But perhaps as a DIY it might slip in. So I'm running it up the flagpole. Peace, Paul |
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#19
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"agent86" wrote in message
.. . Mike Rivers wrote: I think that the average DIYer today would find that to be too much cash to put into a project, particularly since it involves a case and considerable metalworking skill to make a unit that looks decent. Very true. With the RNP going for $475 new, what's the point (unless you just absolutely HAVE to have transformers). And why would you reall NEED transformers at that price point, since Shure 57s behave themselves pretty well with the RNP? Revised cost estimate: 2 ch.: $490 4 ch.: $840 8 ch.: $1540 The idea is to provide up to 8 channels of preamp in a 2U box (plus the outboard power supply). 8 in a box for compactness, particularly for people doing remote work, or for folks who just want 8 identical good-quality preamps. It seems to be a pretty popular format at several price points; the one thing I notice, though, is that none of the 8-bangers out there are transformer-coupled, and some of us like transformers, for (as I mentioned) RFI-proofing, loading, whatever. So I'm looking to see whether there's a niche here. There wouldn't be, I don't think, for a manufactured version of this; the price would be prohibitive. But perhaps as a DIY it might slip in. So I'm running it up the flagpole. Peace, Paul |
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#20
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In article Garrett Cox writes: You could probably find a suitable Bud box for it. I do agree the pricing is something to consider still. If you're going to build something that costs $2,000 or more, you want to put it in a box that makes it look like $2,000, with all the round holes round, and lined up straight. And you probably want engraved or silkscreened legends rather than strips of label tape. One of the things about undertaking a DIY project (and our furniture-building friends will surely agree) is not just to make something cheap or to make something that you can't buy easily, but to make something that you're proud of - whether it's a mic preamp, a custom cable, or a set of shelves to store your backups. There are a couple of companies that advertise in the trade magazines that custom-punched engraved panels but that's still pretty expensive. Markertek is one. Hammond makes a nice rack-mount case for construction projects. A 2-space one runs between $55 and $90 depending on depth and venting. Power supplies are probably best bought given the difficulty with finding suitable transformers. That would be in the $100-150 range for bi-polar 15 to 24 volts plus a single 48 volt supply. You'd need a chassis or case for those, too. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#21
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In article Garrett Cox writes: You could probably find a suitable Bud box for it. I do agree the pricing is something to consider still. If you're going to build something that costs $2,000 or more, you want to put it in a box that makes it look like $2,000, with all the round holes round, and lined up straight. And you probably want engraved or silkscreened legends rather than strips of label tape. One of the things about undertaking a DIY project (and our furniture-building friends will surely agree) is not just to make something cheap or to make something that you can't buy easily, but to make something that you're proud of - whether it's a mic preamp, a custom cable, or a set of shelves to store your backups. There are a couple of companies that advertise in the trade magazines that custom-punched engraved panels but that's still pretty expensive. Markertek is one. Hammond makes a nice rack-mount case for construction projects. A 2-space one runs between $55 and $90 depending on depth and venting. Power supplies are probably best bought given the difficulty with finding suitable transformers. That would be in the $100-150 range for bi-polar 15 to 24 volts plus a single 48 volt supply. You'd need a chassis or case for those, too. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#22
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"Paul Stamler" wrote in message ...
Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? (snip) Hi. I have some general opinions on magazine-published DIY projects, and this is aimed not only at Mr Stamler but also Mr Dorsey and everyone else that do these things. First, I want to be able to get ALL parts at once from one place, and that must include the chassis. In case you didn't know this, most people don't have the tools to drill in metal when it comes to the diameters needed for XLR connectors. I want to whip out my credit card, order one neat package with EVERYTHING in it and sit down a couple of hours every sunday to assemble. I don't have the time or inclination to order parts from 4 different sources, hunt for a suitable chassi, deal with back-orders and replacements, pay $30 in shipping for 3 resistors etc. I know you guys don't want to turn your kitchen into a stocking room for Digi-key parts, but I'm telling you - when I read "You have to order this and that from here and there plus machine your own case" I simply flip the page. And I'm not alone. Second, I don't think anyone is interested in merly "decent" or "servicable" projects. I think most readers have too much of that already. We want "really good" or even "outstanding". To keep price down I think you need to make costly features optional. Many people couldn't care less about HP-filtering, phase switches, metering and balanced outputs in a preamp for instance. Here are some DIY-projects that I would like to see (and if they have already been published, please tell me which issue they are in): -Parametric EQ for live use. A clean parametric EQ with very narrow bands for full-program corrective live use. -A/D and D/A converter. There is a remarkable black hole in the market for stand-alone 2ch converters in the sub $1000 area. I'm sure there are economical reasons for this but if a DIY project could fit in there it would be wonderful. -A "Re-amping" capable DI box. In fact, it wouldn't have to be able to do normal DI at all. /Magnus |
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#23
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"Paul Stamler" wrote in message ...
Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? (snip) Hi. I have some general opinions on magazine-published DIY projects, and this is aimed not only at Mr Stamler but also Mr Dorsey and everyone else that do these things. First, I want to be able to get ALL parts at once from one place, and that must include the chassis. In case you didn't know this, most people don't have the tools to drill in metal when it comes to the diameters needed for XLR connectors. I want to whip out my credit card, order one neat package with EVERYTHING in it and sit down a couple of hours every sunday to assemble. I don't have the time or inclination to order parts from 4 different sources, hunt for a suitable chassi, deal with back-orders and replacements, pay $30 in shipping for 3 resistors etc. I know you guys don't want to turn your kitchen into a stocking room for Digi-key parts, but I'm telling you - when I read "You have to order this and that from here and there plus machine your own case" I simply flip the page. And I'm not alone. Second, I don't think anyone is interested in merly "decent" or "servicable" projects. I think most readers have too much of that already. We want "really good" or even "outstanding". To keep price down I think you need to make costly features optional. Many people couldn't care less about HP-filtering, phase switches, metering and balanced outputs in a preamp for instance. Here are some DIY-projects that I would like to see (and if they have already been published, please tell me which issue they are in): -Parametric EQ for live use. A clean parametric EQ with very narrow bands for full-program corrective live use. -A/D and D/A converter. There is a remarkable black hole in the market for stand-alone 2ch converters in the sub $1000 area. I'm sure there are economical reasons for this but if a DIY project could fit in there it would be wonderful. -A "Re-amping" capable DI box. In fact, it wouldn't have to be able to do normal DI at all. /Magnus |
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#25
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In article ,
(Magnus Jans?n) wrote: "Paul Stamler" wrote in message ... Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? (snip) [snip] Second, I don't think anyone is interested in merly "decent" or "servicable" projects. I think most readers have too much of that already. We want "really good" or even "outstanding". This comment hits at the key (potential) problem I see with this project. Conceptually, it seems similar to the Seventh Circle and Hamptone kits. The difference seems to be that you are suggesting "comparable to Sytek" performance. I haven't used the Sytek, but most commenters here suggest it's "mid-range" in quality. The Seventh Circle preamps aim for "Neve" and "API" quality, which is clearly a step up. Those guys also offer complete kits with all the parts, including chassis. These comments are not meant to dog your idea, just pointing out what's available and (somewhat) comparable to your idea. It seems to me that, while the other guys do have a higher cost per channel, they are offering complete kits and (alleged) higher quality. For myself, given the only moderate cost differences between your suggested kit and the others, I would probably buy the Hamptone or Seventh Circle kits; if I'm going to take the time to build it, I want something as good as (or better/different) than what I have now (API). Hamptone and 7C also seem to offer pretty good tech support; are you looking to do this as an ongoing business where the sales volume is strong enough to provide comparable support? If not, the other alternative might be to offer a "PC board only" kit, or a kit with the board and a few critical parts. -- Jedd Haas - Artist http://www.gallerytungsten.com http://www.epsno.com |
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#26
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Magnus Jans?n wrote:
-Parametric EQ for live use. A clean parametric EQ with very narrow bands for full-program corrective live use. I can't do this as cheaply as you can buy them right now. I am seeing Orbans selling for next to nothing on the used market. Nobody seems to want used parametrics. -A/D and D/A converter. There is a remarkable black hole in the market for stand-alone 2ch converters in the sub $1000 area. I'm sure there are economical reasons for this but if a DIY project could fit in there it would be wonderful. For a D/A, there is Sheldon Stokes' project at www.quadesl.com. I built one and it sounds great. Tell him you want him to do an A/D as well. I keep bugging him about that and it's not high on his list. -A "Re-amping" capable DI box. In fact, it wouldn't have to be able to do normal DI at all. Hell, that is an easy article that will take an afternoon to whip out. It's a Tamura transformer and a couple resistors. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#27
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Magnus Jans?n wrote:
-Parametric EQ for live use. A clean parametric EQ with very narrow bands for full-program corrective live use. I can't do this as cheaply as you can buy them right now. I am seeing Orbans selling for next to nothing on the used market. Nobody seems to want used parametrics. -A/D and D/A converter. There is a remarkable black hole in the market for stand-alone 2ch converters in the sub $1000 area. I'm sure there are economical reasons for this but if a DIY project could fit in there it would be wonderful. For a D/A, there is Sheldon Stokes' project at www.quadesl.com. I built one and it sounds great. Tell him you want him to do an A/D as well. I keep bugging him about that and it's not high on his list. -A "Re-amping" capable DI box. In fact, it wouldn't have to be able to do normal DI at all. Hell, that is an easy article that will take an afternoon to whip out. It's a Tamura transformer and a couple resistors. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#28
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"Paul Stamler" wrote in message news  Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? It's a microphone preamp, solid state, transformer in (Jensen), transformerless balanced +4dBu out with a separate -10dBV unbalanced out. IC based, up to 8 channels in a 2U case, plus separate power pack. Phantom on all channels, 100Hz rolloff selectable on all channels, otherwise no EQ. Designed to be comparable to the Sytek in price, performance and feature set, but with transformer-coupled inputs. All parts obtainable (to North Americans, at any rate) from Digi-Key and Allied Electronics, except for the transformers, which come directly from Jensen. On-card regulation. Like the Sytek, there are some optional choices in what ICs you use. Approximate costs are as follows. These include everything except the cases, which are up to you. At the moment I'm assuming the PC boards would cost $25.00 / ea.; that's the biggest unknown in the equation. I can't really fill that in until I design the boards, and I'm not gonna do that until I find out whether anybody's interested. (Also, of course, price of the boards will vary depending on how many I order.) There are options which will raise the price, and some that will lower it, but this is the basic design. Each input channel: $220.00 Power Supply: $120.00 So a 4-channel unit would cost almost exactly $1k, not counting boxes. An 8-channel would be $1880, ditto. I'd make my slice selling the PC boards and writing it up for the magazines. None whatsoever. There are already too many high-priced mike preamps on the market (from the point of view of manufacturers.) If you want to design something useful, come up with a battery operated unit at $50/channel. Norm Strong |
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#29
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"Paul Stamler" wrote in message news Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? It's a microphone preamp, solid state, transformer in (Jensen), transformerless balanced +4dBu out with a separate -10dBV unbalanced out. IC based, up to 8 channels in a 2U case, plus separate power pack. Phantom on all channels, 100Hz rolloff selectable on all channels, otherwise no EQ. Designed to be comparable to the Sytek in price, performance and feature set, but with transformer-coupled inputs. All parts obtainable (to North Americans, at any rate) from Digi-Key and Allied Electronics, except for the transformers, which come directly from Jensen. On-card regulation. Like the Sytek, there are some optional choices in what ICs you use. Approximate costs are as follows. These include everything except the cases, which are up to you. At the moment I'm assuming the PC boards would cost $25.00 / ea.; that's the biggest unknown in the equation. I can't really fill that in until I design the boards, and I'm not gonna do that until I find out whether anybody's interested. (Also, of course, price of the boards will vary depending on how many I order.) There are options which will raise the price, and some that will lower it, but this is the basic design. Each input channel: $220.00 Power Supply: $120.00 So a 4-channel unit would cost almost exactly $1k, not counting boxes. An 8-channel would be $1880, ditto. I'd make my slice selling the PC boards and writing it up for the magazines. None whatsoever. There are already too many high-priced mike preamps on the market (from the point of view of manufacturers.) If you want to design something useful, come up with a battery operated unit at $50/channel. Norm Strong |
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#30
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Garrett Cox wrote in message ... How much to build the powersupply? I assume we'd be building it. I'd be interested. I love reading the DIY also. Still want to piece together a few of Scott Dorsey's passive EQ's. I hope it'd sound pretty awesome 220 per channel is a bit of cash. I won't say steep but it is a DIY project for almost 2 grand. (If you do 8 channels) mark me down for interest peaked. On 2004-11-12 12:48:21 -0800, "Paul Stamler" said: Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? It's a microphone preamp, solid state, transformer in (Jensen), transformerless balanced +4dBu out with a separate -10dBV unbalanced out. IC based, up to 8 channels in a 2U case, plus separate power pack. Phantom on all channels, 100Hz rolloff selectable on all channels, otherwise no EQ. Designed to be comparable to the Sytek in price, performance and feature set, but with transformer-coupled inputs. All parts obtainable (to North Americans, at any rate) from Digi-Key and Allied Electronics, except for the transformers, which come directly from Jensen. On-card regulation. Like the Sytek, there are some optional choices in what ICs you use. Approximate costs are as follows. These include everything except the cases, which are up to you. At the moment I'm assuming the PC boards would cost $25.00 / ea.; that's the biggest unknown in the equation. I can't really fill that in until I design the boards, and I'm not gonna do that until I find out whether anybody's interested. (Also, of course, price of the boards will vary depending on how many I order.) There are options which will raise the price, and some that will lower it, but this is the basic design. Each input channel: $220.00 Power Supply: $120.00 So a 4-channel unit would cost almost exactly $1k, not counting boxes. An 8-channel would be $1880, ditto. I'd make my slice selling the PC boards and writing it up for the magazines. Any interest? Peace, Paul |
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#31
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Garrett Cox wrote in message ... How much to build the powersupply? I assume we'd be building it. I'd be interested. I love reading the DIY also. Still want to piece together a few of Scott Dorsey's passive EQ's. I hope it'd sound pretty awesome 220 per channel is a bit of cash. I won't say steep but it is a DIY project for almost 2 grand. (If you do 8 channels) mark me down for interest peaked. On 2004-11-12 12:48:21 -0800, "Paul Stamler" said: Hi folks: Let me launch a trial balloon here. Is this a DIY project that appeals to you? It's a microphone preamp, solid state, transformer in (Jensen), transformerless balanced +4dBu out with a separate -10dBV unbalanced out. IC based, up to 8 channels in a 2U case, plus separate power pack. Phantom on all channels, 100Hz rolloff selectable on all channels, otherwise no EQ. Designed to be comparable to the Sytek in price, performance and feature set, but with transformer-coupled inputs. All parts obtainable (to North Americans, at any rate) from Digi-Key and Allied Electronics, except for the transformers, which come directly from Jensen. On-card regulation. Like the Sytek, there are some optional choices in what ICs you use. Approximate costs are as follows. These include everything except the cases, which are up to you. At the moment I'm assuming the PC boards would cost $25.00 / ea.; that's the biggest unknown in the equation. I can't really fill that in until I design the boards, and I'm not gonna do that until I find out whether anybody's interested. (Also, of course, price of the boards will vary depending on how many I order.) There are options which will raise the price, and some that will lower it, but this is the basic design. Each input channel: $220.00 Power Supply: $120.00 So a 4-channel unit would cost almost exactly $1k, not counting boxes. An 8-channel would be $1880, ditto. I'd make my slice selling the PC boards and writing it up for the magazines. Any interest? Peace, Paul |
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#32
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Garrett Cox wrote in message ... How much to build the powersupply? I assume we'd be building it. I'd be interested. I love reading the DIY also. Still want to piece together a few of Scott Dorsey's passive EQ's. I hope it'd sound pretty awesome 220 per channel is a bit of cash. I won't say steep but it is a DIY project for almost 2 grand. (If you do 8 channels) mark me down for interest peaked. I think the word you're looking for there is 'piqued'. |
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#33
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Garrett Cox wrote in message ... How much to build the powersupply? I assume we'd be building it. I'd be interested. I love reading the DIY also. Still want to piece together a few of Scott Dorsey's passive EQ's. I hope it'd sound pretty awesome 220 per channel is a bit of cash. I won't say steep but it is a DIY project for almost 2 grand. (If you do 8 channels) mark me down for interest peaked. I think the word you're looking for there is 'piqued'. |
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#34
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1100355094k@trad... There are a couple of companies that advertise in the trade magazines that custom-punched engraved panels but that's still pretty expensive. Markertek is one. Hammond makes a nice rack-mount case for construction projects. A 2-space one runs between $55 and $90 depending on depth and venting. Sescom sells some for about $35. They offer a custom punching service too. Power supplies are probably best bought given the difficulty with finding suitable transformers. That would be in the $100-150 range for bi-polar 15 to 24 volts plus a single 48 volt supply. You'd need a chassis or case for those, too. Not really necessary; in this design I used 48VCT transformers from Allied Electronics. They carry several brands, including their house brand, Stancor, Hammond & Parallax. Decent transformers were very hard to find a few years ago, but they've gotten easier recently. And the commercial supplies don't take the extra pains to suppress RFI. Peace, Paul |
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#35
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1100355094k@trad... There are a couple of companies that advertise in the trade magazines that custom-punched engraved panels but that's still pretty expensive. Markertek is one. Hammond makes a nice rack-mount case for construction projects. A 2-space one runs between $55 and $90 depending on depth and venting. Sescom sells some for about $35. They offer a custom punching service too. Power supplies are probably best bought given the difficulty with finding suitable transformers. That would be in the $100-150 range for bi-polar 15 to 24 volts plus a single 48 volt supply. You'd need a chassis or case for those, too. Not really necessary; in this design I used 48VCT transformers from Allied Electronics. They carry several brands, including their house brand, Stancor, Hammond & Parallax. Decent transformers were very hard to find a few years ago, but they've gotten easier recently. And the commercial supplies don't take the extra pains to suppress RFI. Peace, Paul |
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#36
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"Magnus Jans?n" wrote in message
m... First, I want to be able to get ALL parts at once from one place, and that must include the chassis. In case you didn't know this, most people don't have the tools to drill in metal when it comes to the diameters needed for XLR connectors. I want to whip out my credit card, order one neat package with EVERYTHING in it and sit down a couple of hours every sunday to assemble. I don't have the time or inclination to order parts from 4 different sources, hunt for a suitable chassi, deal with back-orders and replacements, pay $30 in shipping for 3 resistors etc. I know you guys don't want to turn your kitchen into a stocking room for Digi-key parts, but I'm telling you - when I read "You have to order this and that from here and there plus machine your own case" I simply flip the page. And I'm not alone. You sure aren't. I'd love to be able to spec something exactly that way. So far, though, I haven't found *any* dealer that has everything. If I could, I would specify them that way in a microsecond. Second, I don't think anyone is interested in merly "decent" or "servicable" projects. I think most readers have too much of that already. We want "really good" or even "outstanding". To keep price down I think you need to make costly features optional. Many people couldn't care less about HP-filtering, phase switches, metering and balanced outputs in a preamp for instance. Very good point. In this design, you can leave out whatever you don't want; leaving out the high-pass filter will save $5-something per channel (the price of the switch), leaving out the balanced outputs will save about $16 per channel. By leaving the phantom on all the time (global on/off switching only), you save another $5-something. So a stripped-down version would cost about $148 a channel. Here are some DIY-projects that I would like to see (and if they have already been published, please tell me which issue they are in): -Parametric EQ for live use. A clean parametric EQ with very narrow bands for full-program corrective live use. -A/D and D/A converter. There is a remarkable black hole in the market for stand-alone 2ch converters in the sub $1000 area. I'm sure there are economical reasons for this but if a DIY project could fit in there it would be wonderful. -A "Re-amping" capable DI box. In fact, it wouldn't have to be able to do normal DI at all. One I'd like to see, and don't have the requisite knowledge to design, would be a really good word clock generator for a couple of hundred bucks. Scott, are you lisening? Peace, Paul |
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#37
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"Magnus Jans?n" wrote in message
m... First, I want to be able to get ALL parts at once from one place, and that must include the chassis. In case you didn't know this, most people don't have the tools to drill in metal when it comes to the diameters needed for XLR connectors. I want to whip out my credit card, order one neat package with EVERYTHING in it and sit down a couple of hours every sunday to assemble. I don't have the time or inclination to order parts from 4 different sources, hunt for a suitable chassi, deal with back-orders and replacements, pay $30 in shipping for 3 resistors etc. I know you guys don't want to turn your kitchen into a stocking room for Digi-key parts, but I'm telling you - when I read "You have to order this and that from here and there plus machine your own case" I simply flip the page. And I'm not alone. You sure aren't. I'd love to be able to spec something exactly that way. So far, though, I haven't found *any* dealer that has everything. If I could, I would specify them that way in a microsecond. Second, I don't think anyone is interested in merly "decent" or "servicable" projects. I think most readers have too much of that already. We want "really good" or even "outstanding". To keep price down I think you need to make costly features optional. Many people couldn't care less about HP-filtering, phase switches, metering and balanced outputs in a preamp for instance. Very good point. In this design, you can leave out whatever you don't want; leaving out the high-pass filter will save $5-something per channel (the price of the switch), leaving out the balanced outputs will save about $16 per channel. By leaving the phantom on all the time (global on/off switching only), you save another $5-something. So a stripped-down version would cost about $148 a channel. Here are some DIY-projects that I would like to see (and if they have already been published, please tell me which issue they are in): -Parametric EQ for live use. A clean parametric EQ with very narrow bands for full-program corrective live use. -A/D and D/A converter. There is a remarkable black hole in the market for stand-alone 2ch converters in the sub $1000 area. I'm sure there are economical reasons for this but if a DIY project could fit in there it would be wonderful. -A "Re-amping" capable DI box. In fact, it wouldn't have to be able to do normal DI at all. One I'd like to see, and don't have the requisite knowledge to design, would be a really good word clock generator for a couple of hundred bucks. Scott, are you lisening? Peace, Paul |
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#38
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"Jedd Haas" wrote in message ... Second, I don't think anyone is interested in merly "decent" or "servicable" projects. I think most readers have too much of that already. We want "really good" or even "outstanding". This comment hits at the key (potential) problem I see with this project. Conceptually, it seems similar to the Seventh Circle and Hamptone kits. The difference seems to be that you are suggesting "comparable to Sytek" performance. I haven't used the Sytek, but most commenters here suggest it's "mid-range" in quality. The Seventh Circle preamps aim for "Neve" and "API" quality, which is clearly a step up. Those guys also offer complete kits with all the parts, including chassis. These comments are not meant to dog your idea, just pointing out what's available and (somewhat) comparable to your idea. It seems to me that, while the other guys do have a higher cost per channel, they are offering complete kits and (alleged) higher quality. For myself, given the only moderate cost differences between your suggested kit and the others, I would probably buy the Hamptone or Seventh Circle kits; if I'm going to take the time to build it, I want something as good as (or better/different) than what I have now (API). The Hamptone is in a different category; it's a "color" preamp rather than an attempt at a neutral preamp. This, like the Sytek, aims for neutral. I haven't checked out the Seventh Circle units. This project doesn't aim at the stars. If you want the stars in a neutral sort of way, I say buy a rack full of Great River preamps. They're superb-sounding, and you get a warranty from a well-established company. This project has a different ambition; I'd put the quality one notch below Great River (which is still damned good -- I've made some very nice recordings using this circuit). The tradeoff is convenience (2RU for 8 channels rather than 8) and cost. Like I say, it's a niche. Hamptone and 7C also seem to offer pretty good tech support; are you looking to do this as an ongoing business where the sales volume is strong enough to provide comparable support? If not, the other alternative might be to offer a "PC board only" kit, or a kit with the board and a few critical parts. One of the latter options. I'd sell, I think, PC boards and matched resistors for the phantom power. And I'd provide lots of hand-holding to anyone with problems; I just spent several months online debugging one of the older designs with a guy who built it and had problems. Eventually I had him ship it to me, and it spent a lot of time on my bench. (That was how I found out the newer batches of 5534s aren't as stable in regulators.) I'd do that for anyone who bought a PC board from me, for sure. Peace, Paul |
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#39
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"Jedd Haas" wrote in message ... Second, I don't think anyone is interested in merly "decent" or "servicable" projects. I think most readers have too much of that already. We want "really good" or even "outstanding". This comment hits at the key (potential) problem I see with this project. Conceptually, it seems similar to the Seventh Circle and Hamptone kits. The difference seems to be that you are suggesting "comparable to Sytek" performance. I haven't used the Sytek, but most commenters here suggest it's "mid-range" in quality. The Seventh Circle preamps aim for "Neve" and "API" quality, which is clearly a step up. Those guys also offer complete kits with all the parts, including chassis. These comments are not meant to dog your idea, just pointing out what's available and (somewhat) comparable to your idea. It seems to me that, while the other guys do have a higher cost per channel, they are offering complete kits and (alleged) higher quality. For myself, given the only moderate cost differences between your suggested kit and the others, I would probably buy the Hamptone or Seventh Circle kits; if I'm going to take the time to build it, I want something as good as (or better/different) than what I have now (API). The Hamptone is in a different category; it's a "color" preamp rather than an attempt at a neutral preamp. This, like the Sytek, aims for neutral. I haven't checked out the Seventh Circle units. This project doesn't aim at the stars. If you want the stars in a neutral sort of way, I say buy a rack full of Great River preamps. They're superb-sounding, and you get a warranty from a well-established company. This project has a different ambition; I'd put the quality one notch below Great River (which is still damned good -- I've made some very nice recordings using this circuit). The tradeoff is convenience (2RU for 8 channels rather than 8) and cost. Like I say, it's a niche. Hamptone and 7C also seem to offer pretty good tech support; are you looking to do this as an ongoing business where the sales volume is strong enough to provide comparable support? If not, the other alternative might be to offer a "PC board only" kit, or a kit with the board and a few critical parts. One of the latter options. I'd sell, I think, PC boards and matched resistors for the phantom power. And I'd provide lots of hand-holding to anyone with problems; I just spent several months online debugging one of the older designs with a guy who built it and had problems. Eventually I had him ship it to me, and it spent a lot of time on my bench. (That was how I found out the newer batches of 5534s aren't as stable in regulators.) I'd do that for anyone who bought a PC board from me, for sure. Peace, Paul |
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#40
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Garrett wrote:
You could probably find a suitable Bud box for it. I do agree the pricing is something to consider still. On 2004-11-12 17:37:14 -0800, (Mike Rivers) said: I think that the average DIYer today would find that to be too much cash to put into a project, particularly since it involves a case and considerable metalworking skill to make a unit that looks decent. You might sell about ten, and you know what Recording pays for articles. g I think people think they want to build a great preamp project that costs less in total per channel than the price of a jensen input transformer. g -- ha |
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