Try this link
http://ldsg.snippets.org/idx.php3
Phil Abbate
www. philsaudio.com

"Paul Stamler" wrote in
message
...
: Here's a suggestion: Start with something small,
rather than a big tower
: system. A two-way speaker with a 6-1/2" Vifa woofer
and a 1" Vifa tweeter is
: a nice start. (They're a lot less spitty than much of
the competition.) Get
: Madisound to design you a 4th-order (24dB/octave)
crossover, buy all the
: parts from them and build the thing. Use Dickason's
book to choose a box
: size -- for a first project, I think do a sealed box,
and go for a Qtc of
: about .7. Use good wood -- either MDF or Baltic
Birch -- and damp the walls
: with sidewalk-separator panels. Stuff with Dacron,
about 1 lb per cubic foot
: of space, which you can buy at a fabric store. Avoid
fiberglass, unless you
: like to itch.
:
: Once you've built it, listen; it'll probably sound
pretty good, maybe a
: little bass-shy because it's a 6" in a closed box,
but experimenting with
: room placement will help. More important, you'll have
figured out whether
: you think this is a hell of a lot of fun, or a hell
of a pain in the ass. If
: the latter, well, you've got some decent small
speakers for the bedroom, and
: you can go buy something for the living room. (Check
out Phase Technology
: for stuff that's better'n usual bang for the buck.)
If the former,
: congratulations; you're hooked. Start plotting the
towers.
:
: Peace,
: Paul
:
:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:52:07 GMT, Mac Cool wrote:


The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of
boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take
years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats
before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers.

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

You've clearly never built a boat.

I build furniture. Generally speaking, the raw materials are much less
than the cost of, say, a Mission-style table.

I spent around $300 for a table for my wife that would retail for a
couple thousand. But my labor is free, right?

People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable
standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat"
relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes
to build a boat.

But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great
over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests
tend to think high end designs.

This doesn't make sense for mass produced designs, but for a one-off, it
makes perfect sense.

Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from
the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers
cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people
who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than
commercially available designs.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:52:07 GMT, Mac Cool wrote:


The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of
boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take
years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats
before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers.

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

You've clearly never built a boat.

I build furniture. Generally speaking, the raw materials are much less
than the cost of, say, a Mission-style table.

I spent around $300 for a table for my wife that would retail for a
couple thousand. But my labor is free, right?

People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable
standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat"
relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes
to build a boat.

But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great
over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests
tend to think high end designs.

This doesn't make sense for mass produced designs, but for a one-off, it
makes perfect sense.

Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from
the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers
cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people
who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than
commercially available designs.

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:13:17 GMT, "U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" "Charles
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:52:07 GMT, Mac Cool wrote:


The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of
boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take
years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats
before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers.

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

You've clearly never built a boat.

I build furniture. Generally speaking, the raw materials are much less
than the cost of, say, a Mission-style table.

I spent around $300 for a table for my wife that would retail for a
couple thousand. But my labor is free, right?

People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable
standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat"
relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes
to build a boat.

But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great
over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests
tend to think high end designs.

This doesn't make sense for mass produced designs, but for a one-off, it
makes perfect sense.

Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from
the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers
cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people
who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than
commercially available designs.


I'm assuming that you mean they can design aesthetically more
pleasing-looking cabinets. To make better speakers doesn't take a wood
craftsman, but a design lab, a great engineer, anechoic chamber, many,
many prototypes - need I go on?

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:13:17 GMT, "U-CDK_CHARLES\\Charles" "Charles
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:52:07 GMT, Mac Cool wrote:


The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what kind of
boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It might take
years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to build a dozen boats
before you get one to float; as has been suggested with speakers.

Maybe I'm just stubborn but I don't see why speaker building has to be
trial and error. Is it just that speaker builders are perfectionists? Car
speakers are screwed into metal doors with plastic covers and they can
sound great.

You've clearly never built a boat.

I build furniture. Generally speaking, the raw materials are much less
than the cost of, say, a Mission-style table.

I spent around $300 for a table for my wife that would retail for a
couple thousand. But my labor is free, right?

People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable
standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat"
relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it takes
to build a boat.

But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great
over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests
tend to think high end designs.

This doesn't make sense for mass produced designs, but for a one-off, it
makes perfect sense.

Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets from
the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good drivers
cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of the people
who build speakers do so because they believe they can do better than
commercially available designs.


I'm assuming that you mean they can design aesthetically more
pleasing-looking cabinets. To make better speakers doesn't take a wood
craftsman, but a design lab, a great engineer, anechoic chamber, many,
many prototypes - need I go on?

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Mac Cool wrote in message ...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16
feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20%
left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so
spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely
good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an
existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth
can be whatever).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?


Having built a couple pairs of speakers for the same reason (I
couldn't find anything I liked at a resonable price), I have to say it
is right on the border of being more trouble than it's worth. However,
I'm pretty happy with what I ended up with, although now that my
system is in a larger room, I think the speakers are bass-shy. I went
with sealed enclosures ("acoustic suspension") because I'm not a fan
of the LF delay (phase shift) caused by ported boxes. However, unless
you are looking at large LF drivers (10" or 12") and thus a 3-way
design, sealed boxes often don't provide the real low end support that
ported boxes do. My favorite speakers were Vandersteen 2ce, but they
were too big for the place where I lived for the last 5 years... Now I
wish I had them back... I also went with a 2-way design, using a 7"
driver for the bass, and a 1" silk dome for the highs. The tradeoffs
between 2-way and 3-way gave me headaches for months before I finally
made my decision. Here's how I saw it:

2-way
Simpler crossover design by a long shot!
Lower cost (usually)
Easier to match two drivers than three
Easier to make the front baffle (only two holes)
Often better imaging due to only one crossover point/phase shift

3-way
Better bass because larger driver can be used for woofer (larger
woofers don't go as high without lots of distortion!)
Possibility of better midrange, esp. for voice due to having the full
vocal range on one driver

I used Weem's book, and got the latest revision at the time (from 1991
I think). But agreed: it's pretty technical, and the projects he
suggests weren't in line with what I wanted.

Someone else pointed out Ebay, but I'd suggest looking around at used
shops instead because it's always best to hear the exact speakers you
are buying. In the DC area, High Tech Exchange was a great resource.
I'd guess there are similar shops in most larger cities. Here in
Albuquerque, it's Hudson's Audio.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

Mac Cool wrote in message ...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, maybe a tweeter, midrange
and one or two woofers but I'm beginning to wonder if it would be easier
to build my own space shuttle. I've read one book by David Weems,
Designing, Building, and Testing Your Own Speaker System, it's the only
book on the subject at my local library. Being a total neophyte, the book
was of marginal help, so I went looking on Amazon. The speaker building
books I found on Amazon suffered the same criticisms as Weem's book so I'm
not sure where to start.

I'll be honest, I have a small budget ($200+wood), but I do have all the
necessary tools, I just want to build some nice speakers. I will settle
for plans but all the plans I found were for sub boxes.

I should mention that the speakers will be used in a smallish room, 11x16
feet and that I have congenital hearing damage (about 40% right ear, 20%
left ear) and I have difficulty distinguishing midrange sounds; so
spending lots of money would be a waste anyway. I actually have extremely
good hearing at high frequencies. The speakers will be built to match an
existing entertainment center (height will be ~40-50", width 8-10", depth
can be whatever).

Can anyone point me in the right direction?


Having built a couple pairs of speakers for the same reason (I
couldn't find anything I liked at a resonable price), I have to say it
is right on the border of being more trouble than it's worth. However,
I'm pretty happy with what I ended up with, although now that my
system is in a larger room, I think the speakers are bass-shy. I went
with sealed enclosures ("acoustic suspension") because I'm not a fan
of the LF delay (phase shift) caused by ported boxes. However, unless
you are looking at large LF drivers (10" or 12") and thus a 3-way
design, sealed boxes often don't provide the real low end support that
ported boxes do. My favorite speakers were Vandersteen 2ce, but they
were too big for the place where I lived for the last 5 years... Now I
wish I had them back... I also went with a 2-way design, using a 7"
driver for the bass, and a 1" silk dome for the highs. The tradeoffs
between 2-way and 3-way gave me headaches for months before I finally
made my decision. Here's how I saw it:

2-way
Simpler crossover design by a long shot!
Lower cost (usually)
Easier to match two drivers than three
Easier to make the front baffle (only two holes)
Often better imaging due to only one crossover point/phase shift

3-way
Better bass because larger driver can be used for woofer (larger
woofers don't go as high without lots of distortion!)
Possibility of better midrange, esp. for voice due to having the full
vocal range on one driver

I used Weem's book, and got the latest revision at the time (from 1991
I think). But agreed: it's pretty technical, and the projects he
suggests weren't in line with what I wanted.

Someone else pointed out Ebay, but I'd suggest looking around at used
shops instead because it's always best to hear the exact speakers you
are buying. In the DC area, High Tech Exchange was a great resource.
I'd guess there are similar shops in most larger cities. Here in
Albuquerque, it's Hudson's Audio.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

Karl Winkler
Lectrosonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrosonics.com

Don Pearce wrote:

I'm assuming that you mean they can design aesthetically more
pleasing-looking cabinets. To make better speakers doesn't take a wood
craftsman, but a design lab, a great engineer, anechoic chamber, many,
many prototypes - need I go on?

And this, in short, is how the NRC has managed to phenomenally boost the
Canadian loudspeaker industry with comparatively low cost. They provide
all of these things (except the many prototypes) to manufacturers for cheap.

While in the US, you need JBL's resources in order to get accurate polar
plots at low frequencies. This makes it hard for small manufacturers to
compete. Let alone homebrewers.
--scott
(who has built a few speakers, mostly by wholesale lifting of
commercial designs that he has liked the sound of)
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Don Pearce wrote:

I'm assuming that you mean they can design aesthetically more
pleasing-looking cabinets. To make better speakers doesn't take a wood
craftsman, but a design lab, a great engineer, anechoic chamber, many,
many prototypes - need I go on?

And this, in short, is how the NRC has managed to phenomenally boost the
Canadian loudspeaker industry with comparatively low cost. They provide
all of these things (except the many prototypes) to manufacturers for cheap.

While in the US, you need JBL's resources in order to get accurate polar
plots at low frequencies. This makes it hard for small manufacturers to
compete. Let alone homebrewers.
--scott
(who has built a few speakers, mostly by wholesale lifting of
commercial designs that he has liked the sound of)
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

x-no archive: yes

Karl Winkler wrote:

Having built a couple pairs of speakers for the same reason (I
couldn't find anything I liked at a resonable price), I have to say it
is right on the border of being more trouble than it's worth.

I'm thinking of building my own white van. That way I could save a lot
on speakers.

--
ha

x-no archive: yes

Karl Winkler wrote:

Having built a couple pairs of speakers for the same reason (I
couldn't find anything I liked at a resonable price), I have to say it
is right on the border of being more trouble than it's worth.

I'm thinking of building my own white van. That way I could save a lot
on speakers.

--
ha

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

While in the US, you need JBL's resources in order to get accurate polar
plots at low frequencies. This makes it hard for small manufacturers to
compete. Let alone homebrewers.
--scott
(who has built a few speakers, mostly by wholesale lifting of
commercial designs that he has liked the sound of)

If you have decent data on the drivers, which some manufacturers supply and
some don't, you can build a pair of good speakers without most of those
resources. You'll probably need to tweak the L-pads in the crossovers to get
the balance right. It's hard, but doable. What's much harder is to build
multiple copies of the speaker, reliably and repeatably. *That* takes all
the resources you can muster and then some.

Peace,
Paul (found out the hard way)

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

While in the US, you need JBL's resources in order to get accurate polar
plots at low frequencies. This makes it hard for small manufacturers to
compete. Let alone homebrewers.
--scott
(who has built a few speakers, mostly by wholesale lifting of
commercial designs that he has liked the sound of)

If you have decent data on the drivers, which some manufacturers supply and
some don't, you can build a pair of good speakers without most of those
resources. You'll probably need to tweak the L-pads in the crossovers to get
the balance right. It's hard, but doable. What's much harder is to build
multiple copies of the speaker, reliably and repeatably. *That* takes all
the resources you can muster and then some.

Peace,
Paul (found out the hard way)

"Mac Cool" wrote in message ...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, snip

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

If you haven't already, do some reading on sites like these:
http://www.audioxpress.com/
http://www.huennebeck-online.de/tmp/DIYaudio.html
http://icc.skku.ac.kr/~won/electro/audiospeakers.html

"Mac Cool" wrote in message ...
I would like to build a set of floor speakers, snip

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

If you haven't already, do some reading on sites like these:
http://www.audioxpress.com/
http://www.huennebeck-online.de/tmp/DIYaudio.html
http://icc.skku.ac.kr/~won/electro/audiospeakers.html

Scott Dorsey:

The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what
kind of boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It
might take years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to
build a dozen boats before you get one to float; as has been
suggested with speakers.

You haven't actually built a boat, have you?

How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats,
don't blame the boat.

I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built
would float.
--
Mac Cool

Scott Dorsey:

The difference is that a person can do some research, decide what
kind of boat they want to build, buy or draw plans and build it. It
might take years, it might take a lifetime, but you don't have to
build a dozen boats before you get one to float; as has been
suggested with speakers.

You haven't actually built a boat, have you?

How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats,
don't blame the boat.

I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built
would float.
--
Mac Cool

anybody-but-bush:

Floating is equivelent to making noise.

Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to
speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise,
is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats
and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's
different strokes for different folks.
--
Mac Cool

anybody-but-bush:

Floating is equivelent to making noise.

Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to
speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise,
is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats
and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's
different strokes for different folks.
--
Mac Cool

Scott Dorsey:

So, ever listened to a single full-range 8" driver? It'll cost you
ten bucks to buy one from Quam, and you can play with different
cabinets. You won't have much top or bottom extension, but it might
be an inexpensive way to start, if your goal is to have fun and learn
about speaker design.

Thanks Scott, I appreciate the help.

--
Mac Cool

Scott Dorsey:

So, ever listened to a single full-range 8" driver? It'll cost you
ten bucks to buy one from Quam, and you can play with different
cabinets. You won't have much top or bottom extension, but it might
be an inexpensive way to start, if your goal is to have fun and learn
about speaker design.

Thanks Scott, I appreciate the help.

--
Mac Cool

Paul Stamler:

Here's a suggestion: Start with something small

Thanks, it sounds like good advice and I'm going to follow it. I can
always use some smaller speakers for the bedroom.
--
Mac Cool

Paul Stamler:

Here's a suggestion: Start with something small

Thanks, it sounds like good advice and I'm going to follow it. I can
always use some smaller speakers for the bedroom.
--
Mac Cool

Mac Cool wrote:
How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats,
don't blame the boat.

I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built
would float.

Ah yes, but would it capsize when placed in a real-world body of water?
Most boats don't float very well after they've capsized. (There are
some notable exceptions, one of which I am personally grateful for.
Thankfully the lake was deep enough at that point so that when the mast
rotated 180 degrees -- directly DOWN into the water -- it did not get
stuck on anything, and we were able to rotate it another 180 degrees
back to (regular) vertical.)

- Logan

Mac Cool wrote:
How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that floats,
don't blame the boat.

I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I built
would float.

Ah yes, but would it capsize when placed in a real-world body of water?
Most boats don't float very well after they've capsized. (There are
some notable exceptions, one of which I am personally grateful for.
Thankfully the lake was deep enough at that point so that when the mast
rotated 180 degrees -- directly DOWN into the water -- it did not get
stuck on anything, and we were able to rotate it another 180 degrees
back to (regular) vertical.)

- Logan

You are misunderstanding my analogy. If anyone can make
a boat that floats then anyone can make a speaker that
makes some noise. If you are looking for a good
sounding speaker, accurate speaker, reference monitor,
that speaker needs to do more than just float, it needs
to do a lot of stuff just right and "anybody" can not
do that right out of the gate, it will take experience
and good tools.

If you want to listen to music buy speakers if you want
to be a speaker builder then plan on a long uphill
struggle and spending some dough on tools and parts..

Philip Abbate
LspCAD Dealer\
( that is Loudspeaker Computer Aided Design)
www.philsaudio.com/lspcad.htm

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
: anybody-but-bush:
:
: Floating is equivelent to making noise.
:
: Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think
comparing boats to
: speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is
equivalent to noise,
: is more indicative of your personality than any
commonality between boats
: and speakers. I'm not being negative about your
personality, but it's
: different strokes for different folks.
: --
: Mac Cool

You are misunderstanding my analogy. If anyone can make
a boat that floats then anyone can make a speaker that
makes some noise. If you are looking for a good
sounding speaker, accurate speaker, reference monitor,
that speaker needs to do more than just float, it needs
to do a lot of stuff just right and "anybody" can not
do that right out of the gate, it will take experience
and good tools.

If you want to listen to music buy speakers if you want
to be a speaker builder then plan on a long uphill
struggle and spending some dough on tools and parts..

Philip Abbate
LspCAD Dealer\
( that is Loudspeaker Computer Aided Design)
www.philsaudio.com/lspcad.htm

"Mac Cool" wrote in message
...
: anybody-but-bush:
:
: Floating is equivelent to making noise.
:
: Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think
comparing boats to
: speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is
equivalent to noise,
: is more indicative of your personality than any
commonality between boats
: and speakers. I'm not being negative about your
personality, but it's
: different strokes for different folks.
: --
: Mac Cool

U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles:

You've clearly never built a boat.

I'm betting you haven't either.

I build furniture.

I build furniture.

People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable
standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat"
relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it
takes to build a boat.

But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great
over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests
tend to think high end designs.

Here you are clearly wrong, there are many, many people who build
servicable boats. There are discussion groups, books and websites
dedicated to small serviceable boats and I would bet that only a
minority of home boat builders build high end boats.

Why do you build furniture? Do you do it to save money or is it because
you love creating something with your hands, having control over the
quality of the finished product within your ability.

Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets
from the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good
drivers cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of
the people who build speakers do so because they believe they can do
better than commercially available designs.

Maybe some of them can. The best speaker in the world is wasted on an
uneducated ear. However good at furniture building you are, it is
doubtful that your first piece was perfect, or your second, or your
third...
--
Mac Cool

U-CDK_CHARLES\Charles:

You've clearly never built a boat.

I'm betting you haven't either.

I build furniture.

I build furniture.

People who build boats CAN (and occasionally do) build "servicable
standard" boats. But WHY? You can buy a "servicable standard boat"
relatively inexpensively, especially in comparison to the hours it
takes to build a boat.

But the labor differential to make a Top Notch boat isn't that great
over and above making a Good Enough boat, so boat building hobbiests
tend to think high end designs.

Here you are clearly wrong, there are many, many people who build
servicable boats. There are discussion groups, books and websites
dedicated to small serviceable boats and I would bet that only a
minority of home boat builders build high end boats.

Why do you build furniture? Do you do it to save money or is it because
you love creating something with your hands, having control over the
quality of the finished product within your ability.

Same song with speakers. While I have built "Good Enough" cabinets
from the Theile-Small parameters (and I would again if I found good
drivers cheap. I always have spare MDF and plywood around) most of
the people who build speakers do so because they believe they can do
better than commercially available designs.

Maybe some of them can. The best speaker in the world is wasted on an
uneducated ear. However good at furniture building you are, it is
doubtful that your first piece was perfect, or your second, or your
third...
--
Mac Cool

Mac Cool wrote:

Floating is equivelent to making noise.

Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to
speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise,
is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats
and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's
different strokes for different folks.

He means it doesn't take much to build a speaker that will output some
kind of sound, as it doesn't take much to build a boat that floats,
either. But with higher performance from either device comes necessary
investment in components, design, labor, testing, labor, testing, labor,
etcd.

Mac Cool wrote:

Floating is equivelent to making noise.

Having spent a good bit of time in a boat I think comparing boats to
speakers is a bad analogy. If you think floating is equivalent to noise,
is more indicative of your personality than any commonality between boats
and speakers. I'm not being negative about your personality, but it's
different strokes for different folks.

He means it doesn't take much to build a speaker that will output some
kind of sound, as it doesn't take much to build a boat that floats,
either. But with higher performance from either device comes necessary
investment in components, design, labor, testing, labor, testing, labor,
etcd.

anybody-but-bush:

You are misunderstanding my analogy. If anyone can make
a boat that floats then anyone can make a speaker that
makes some noise.

I don't misunderstand at all... it is a flawed analogy. Anyone with the
tools and will can build a quite servicable boat. It may not be a yacht or
racing boat, it won't be perfect, but it will provide pleasure and be a
source of pride for the builder.

What I do understand is that some people know what they know, but do not
know how they know it.
--
Mac Cool

anybody-but-bush:

You are misunderstanding my analogy. If anyone can make
a boat that floats then anyone can make a speaker that
makes some noise.

I don't misunderstand at all... it is a flawed analogy. Anyone with the
tools and will can build a quite servicable boat. It may not be a yacht or
racing boat, it won't be perfect, but it will provide pleasure and be a
source of pride for the builder.

What I do understand is that some people know what they know, but do not
know how they know it.
--
Mac Cool

Logan Shaw:

How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that
floats, don't blame the boat.

I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I
built would float.

Ah yes, but would it capsize when placed in a real-world body of
water?

No one can guarantee a boat won't capsize. Boats are designed for the type
of water they will be used in. If a boat is pushed beyond the limits it
was designed for, it will fail.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't think boat building is a good analogy
for speaker building.
--
Mac Cool

Logan Shaw:

How many boats have you built? If you can't build a boat that
floats, don't blame the boat.

I have never built a boat, but I guarantee you that the first one I
built would float.

Ah yes, but would it capsize when placed in a real-world body of
water?

No one can guarantee a boat won't capsize. Boats are designed for the type
of water they will be used in. If a boat is pushed beyond the limits it
was designed for, it will fail.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I don't think boat building is a good analogy
for speaker building.
--
Mac Cool

Enough with the "bad analogy". Analogies don't have to be perfect in
every way, but this one was pretty good. Everyone else here "gets it".
If you don't, just move on.

Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)

Enough with the "bad analogy". Analogies don't have to be perfect in
every way, but this one was pretty good. Everyone else here "gets it".
If you don't, just move on.

Tony (remove the "_" to reply by email)

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
If you have decent data on the drivers, which some manufacturers supply
and
some don't, you can build a pair of good speakers without most of those
resources. You'll probably need to tweak the L-pads in the crossovers to
get
the balance right. It's hard, but doable.

And you would still have no idea about cabinet reflections, resonances, etc.
unless you have measurement facilities.

What's much harder is to build
multiple copies of the speaker, reliably and repeatably. *That* takes all
the resources you can muster and then some.

Your method relies on the manufacturers data, so you have already ignored
driver tolerances. It's not that hard to build boxes to similar tolerances.

TonyP.

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
If you have decent data on the drivers, which some manufacturers supply
and
some don't, you can build a pair of good speakers without most of those
resources. You'll probably need to tweak the L-pads in the crossovers to
get
the balance right. It's hard, but doable.

And you would still have no idea about cabinet reflections, resonances, etc.
unless you have measurement facilities.

What's much harder is to build
multiple copies of the speaker, reliably and repeatably. *That* takes all
the resources you can muster and then some.

Your method relies on the manufacturers data, so you have already ignored
driver tolerances. It's not that hard to build boxes to similar tolerances.

TonyP.

No, you're not crazy but you won't achieve a great deal for $200. You could
spend a large proportion ( if not all ) of that alone on decent crossover
networks. Which you also have to design ! And there's more to it than the
cookbook says btw.

It would be a learning experience though.

The economics of volume manufacturing mean that you'll be able to buy a better
set of speakers than you can make for the same money.

Graham