[mcp6453[_2_]]

The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
Is there another source for 63/37?

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 3/4/2011 3:54 PM, mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
Is there another source for 63/37?

Actually, it appears to be readily available from multiple sources. Even Amazon
is carrying it.

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
Is there another source for 63/37?

Sure, Digi-Key or Mouser, but you'll pay list price.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 3/4/2011 4:29 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Sure, Digi-Key or Mouser, but you'll pay list price.

That's not new.

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/4/2011 10:39 PM, mcp6453 wrote:

Sure, Digi-Key or Mouser, but you'll pay list price.

That's not new.

A lot of old things now cost more than their new
replacements that you can't or don't want to use.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[MG[_4_]]

"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned
sold out.
Is there another source for 63/37?


http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-1185

they have a lot of 60/40, also

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 3/5/2011 3:00 PM, MG wrote:

"mcp6453" wrote in message
...
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
Is there another source for 63/37?


http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/21-1185

they have a lot of 60/40, also

At one point, the solder I bought had some silver in it. The two pieces of rolls
that I have don't have the labels, so I don't know if I used those roles up.

I measured the diameter of the rolls I have, and it's .036. Now I wonder if
that's really .032 or .040 nominal. It's not a lot of difference either way for
soldering XLRs.

[Scott Dorsey]

mcp6453 wrote:

At one point, the solder I bought had some silver in it. The two pieces of rolls
that I have don't have the labels, so I don't know if I used those roles up.

That would be 2% silver-bearing solder. It's not eutectic, so it's harder
to make good joints with. On the other hand, it also doesn't flow as well
as 60/40. BUT, you have to use it on silver-plated contacts otherwise you
will wind up with a little ring of base metal exposed around the joint
which can corrode.

I measured the diameter of the rolls I have, and it's .036. Now I wonder if
that's really .032 or .040 nominal. It's not a lot of difference either way for
soldering XLRs.

I'd pick something larger than that for XLRs, but that's a personal preference.
It's faster to work with 18 ga for XLRs, but for doing IC sockets you might
prefer 26 ga.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Stuart Richards]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

That would be 2% silver-bearing solder. It's not eutectic, so it's harder
to make good joints with.

Sn62Pb36Ag2 solder (aka Sn62 & Pb36A) is eutectic. It has a distinct melting
point of 179 degrees Celsius, according to Electronic materials and processes
handbook:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CQG...page&q&f=false

[Scott Dorsey]

Stuart Richards wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

That would be 2% silver-bearing solder. It's not eutectic, so it's harder
to make good joints with.

Sn62Pb36Ag2 solder (aka Sn62 & Pb36A) is eutectic. It has a distinct melting
point of 179 degrees Celsius, according to Electronic materials and processes
handbook:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CQG...page&q&f=false

Wow! I always thought it had a plastic region because it crystallizes on
me if I so much as breathe on it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 3/5/2011 7:53 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Stuart Richards wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

That would be 2% silver-bearing solder. It's not eutectic, so it's harder
to make good joints with.

Sn62Pb36Ag2 solder (aka Sn62 & Pb36A) is eutectic. It has a distinct melting
point of 179 degrees Celsius, according to Electronic materials and processes
handbook:
http://books.google.com/books?id=CQG...page&q&f=false

Wow! I always thought it had a plastic region because it crystallizes on
me if I so much as breathe on it.
--scott


I built a DTMF decoder kit tonight, and I had a heck of a time getting the flux
off the board. Even the PCB cleaner that I've had for 15 years didn't work well.
It looks like I may have to run it through the dishwasher. That's never happened
before. The board and components came from Europe, so they're fully RoHS. I
wonder if my old solder doesn't like RoHS.

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/5/2011 11:03 PM, mcp6453 wrote:

I built a DTMF decoder kit tonight, and I had a heck of a time getting the flux
off the board. Even the PCB cleaner that I've had for 15 years didn't work well.
It looks like I may have to run it through the dishwasher.

You might. Many of the fluxes these days are water-soluble,
but that doesn't mean they don't need some elbow grease too.
Commercially built PC boards go through what's essentially a
dishwasher after they're soldered.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 3/5/2011 11:03 PM, mcp6453 wrote:

I built a DTMF decoder kit tonight, and I had a heck of a time getting the flux
off the board. Even the PCB cleaner that I've had for 15 years didn't work well.
It looks like I may have to run it through the dishwasher.

You might. Many of the fluxes these days are water-soluble,
but that doesn't mean they don't need some elbow grease too.
Commercially built PC boards go through what's essentially a
dishwasher after they're soldered.

And most of those fancy washable fluxes are also corrosive, so you HAVE
to wash them off.

I think you're better off just using plain old rosin flux. You can remove
it with alcohol and some elbow grease if you want or need to, but most of
the time you can just leave it on and it won't hurt anything.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
Is there another source for 63/37?


Is this significantly different to 60/40?

Cheers

ian

[Arny Krueger]

"Ian Bell" wrote in message

mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
63/37?


Is this significantly different to 60/40?

The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does not go through a
plastic stage while cooling, but goes directly from liquid to solid. This
reduces the possibilty of cold joints.

[Scott Dorsey]

Ian Bell wrote:
mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that Scott mentioned sold out.
Is there another source for 63/37?

Is this significantly different to 60/40?

Yes. It doesn't flow as well as 60/40, but it has no plastic range as it
cools so it's much easier to make a good joint especially if there is
any vibration.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[geoff]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
63/37?


Is this significantly different to 60/40?

The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does not go through a
plastic stage while cooling, but goes directly from liquid to solid.
This reduces the possibilty of cold joints.

Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

geoff

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/9/2011 2:29 PM, geoff wrote:

Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

No need to get too analytical. How about "crummy joints?"

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Arny Krueger]

"geoff" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
63/37?


Is this significantly different to 60/40?

The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
possibilty of cold joints.

Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?

If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or somehow something I
made up, Google is your friend. ;-)

[John Williamson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
63/37?

Is this significantly different to 60/40?

The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
possibilty of cold joints.

Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?

If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or somehow something I
made up, Google is your friend. ;-)


It seems to be a cross-Atlantic divide. I call 'em dry joints, as do all
the electronics people I've worked with here in the UK, while Americans
seem to prefer cold joints. Either way, they're not a Good Thing(tm).

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23 that
Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another source for
63/37?


Is this significantly different to 60/40?

The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
possibilty of cold joints.

Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?

If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or somehow
something I made up, Google is your friend. ;-)

Always been 'dry joints' here. Cold solder was some crappy conductive glue
IIRC. But I guess usage varies. Hell in some countries they can't even
tell the difference between an ass and an arse !

(_)*(_)

geoff

There was a young girl from Madras,
Had a truely magnificent ass.
Not rounded and pink,
as you possibly think,
But was gray, had long ears, and ate grass.

[Arny Krueger]

"geoff" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"geoff" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23
that Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another
source for 63/37?


Is this significantly different to 60/40?

The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
possibilty of cold joints.

Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?

If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or
somehow something I made up, Google is your friend. ;-)

Always been 'dry joints' here. Cold solder was some
crappy conductive glue IIRC. But I guess usage varies. Hell in some
countries they can't even tell the
difference between an ass and an arse !

Thinking about it, "dry joint" seems to be more descriptive of the
appearance of this kind of a bad solder joint. It looks dry and sandy
instead of smooth and liquid-like.

The cold joint terminology seems inverted, since the way you get them is to
move things while they are still too hot.

Hey, I didn't make American English up - I just live here so that is what I
speak! ;-)

[John Hardy]

On 3/10/2011 2:30 PM, Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Ian wrote in message

mcp6453 wrote:
The 63/37 solder that All Electronics had for $23
that Scott mentioned sold out. Is there another
source for 63/37?


Is this significantly different to 60/40?

The magic of 63/37 is that its eutectic. IOW, it does
not go through a plastic stage while cooling, but goes
directly from liquid to solid. This reduces the
possibilty of cold joints.

Don't you mean 'dry joints' ?

I've also heard of that usage, but far less often. UK?

If you think that "Cold solder joint" is an error or
somehow something I made up, Google is your friend. ;-)

Always been 'dry joints' here. Cold solder was some
crappy conductive glue IIRC. But I guess usage varies. Hell in some
countries they can't even tell the
difference between an ass and an arse !

Thinking about it, "dry joint" seems to be more descriptive of the
appearance of this kind of a bad solder joint. It looks dry and sandy
instead of smooth and liquid-like.

The cold joint terminology seems inverted, since the way you get them is to
move things while they are still too hot.

Hey, I didn't make American English up - I just live here so that is what I
speak! ;-)


One way that I think of a "cold solder joint" is a joint where there is
a nice, shiny ball of solder on a component lead, but the solder never
made contact with the copper pad below (or the lug of the terminal
strip). Someone did not properly heat the pad (or lug), probably not the
component lead either. They just managed to get a ball of solder to
attach to the lead. Shiny ball, but useless. The solder got hot enough,
but the rest of the joint did not.

I made my share of cold solder joints in the early days, and still pay
close attention to avoid doing it again. I wave-solder everything in my
mic preamps except the four voltage regulators in the power supply for
the highest consistency and reliability. The regulators need to be
hand-soldered due to alignment problems with the heat sinks, chassis,
etc. I hand-solder them very carefully, to avoid cold solder joints.

John Hardy

[William Sommerwerck]

"Cold" and "dry" imply pretty much the same thing -- the solder and the
surfaces haven't gotten hot enough for the solder to flow freely and make a
proper bond, both mechanical and chemical.

[geoff]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
"Cold" and "dry" imply pretty much the same thing -- the solder and
the surfaces haven't gotten hot enough for the solder to flow freely
and make a proper bond, both mechanical and chemical.

A dry joint has flowed fine, but moved while setting and become crystaline
(or something like that). A good joint can also become 'dry' with extended
vibration over years.

geoff

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

William Sommerwerck wrote:

"Cold" and "dry" imply pretty much the same thing -- the solder and
the surfaces haven't gotten hot enough for the solder to flow freely
and make a proper bond, both mechanical and chemical.

I would have thought that "dry" referenced a lack of flux rather than a lack
of heat.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Luxey]

On Mar 11, 7:21*am, "geoff" wrote:

A dry joint has flowed fine, but moved while setting and become crystaline
(or something like that). A good joint can also become *'dry' with extended
vibration over years.

geoff

Those we call cold.

[John Williamson]

Peter Larsen wrote:
William Sommerwerck wrote:

"Cold" and "dry" imply pretty much the same thing -- the solder and
the surfaces haven't gotten hot enough for the solder to flow freely
and make a proper bond, both mechanical and chemical.

I would have thought that "dry" referenced a lack of flux rather than a lack
of heat.

I was taught to call 'em dry joints, as against a good solder joint
which has a shiny, wet-looking surface. The cause may be bad temperature
control of the soldering station, a lack of flux, or movement during the
setting phase. Close examination of the joint will tell you which is the
actual cause. The cure is the same in all cases, though. Remove the bad
solder, and remake the joint, paying attention to cleanliness,
temperature, and movement while cooling. To call them cold joints
doesn't make sense to me, as that implies there's only one cause.
Especially as one cause of a "cold" joint can be a soldering iron that's
too hot.

As I've said elsewhere, though, it seems to be that in the UK, we call
them dry joints, and in the USA, you call them cold joints. Both refer
to a solder joint where the solder hasn't wetted the adjoining surfaces
sufficiently, causing a mechanically weak joint with dubious conductivity.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/11/2011 1:21 AM, geoff wrote:

A dry joint has flowed fine, but moved while setting and become crystaline
(or something like that).

Here in The Colonies, that's called a "cold" joint because
it was moved while the molten solder was cooling but not yet
fully solidified.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Arny Krueger]

"John Hardy" wrote in message


One way that I think of a "cold solder joint" is a joint
where there is a nice, shiny ball of solder on a
component lead, but the solder never made contact with
the copper pad below (or the lug of the terminal strip).
Someone did not properly heat the pad (or lug), probably
not the component lead either. They just managed to get a
ball of solder to attach to the lead. Shiny ball, but
useless. The solder got hot enough, but the rest of the
joint did not.

The inverse is also possible. There can be a nice shiny ball of solder on
the copper pad, but the lead remains dry.

I made my share of cold solder joints in the early days,
and still pay close attention to avoid doing it again. I
wave-solder everything in my mic preamps except the four
voltage regulators in the power supply for the highest
consistency and reliability. The regulators need to be
hand-soldered due to alignment problems with the heat
sinks, chassis, etc. I hand-solder them very carefully,
to avoid cold solder joints.

I don't think that anybody solders well enough to be able to bypass the
inspection step.

[William Sommerwerck]

The cure is the same in all cases. Remove the bad solder...

This is critical. Just adding fresh solder isn't always enough.

[Steve King]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 3/11/2011 1:21 AM, geoff wrote:

A dry joint has flowed fine, but moved while setting and become
crystaline
(or something like that).

Here in The Colonies, that's called a "cold" joint because it was moved
while the molten solder was cooling but not yet fully solidified.


However the terms came into common use like so much jargon neither
accurately describes the condition, but we all know what we're talking about
and what to do about it.

Steve King

[Bill Graham]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"John Hardy" wrote in message


One way that I think of a "cold solder joint" is a joint
where there is a nice, shiny ball of solder on a
component lead, but the solder never made contact with
the copper pad below (or the lug of the terminal strip).
Someone did not properly heat the pad (or lug), probably
not the component lead either. They just managed to get a
ball of solder to attach to the lead. Shiny ball, but
useless. The solder got hot enough, but the rest of the
joint did not.

The inverse is also possible. There can be a nice shiny ball of
solder on the copper pad, but the lead remains dry.

I made my share of cold solder joints in the early days,
and still pay close attention to avoid doing it again. I
wave-solder everything in my mic preamps except the four
voltage regulators in the power supply for the highest
consistency and reliability. The regulators need to be
hand-soldered due to alignment problems with the heat
sinks, chassis, etc. I hand-solder them very carefully,
to avoid cold solder joints.

I don't think that anybody solders well enough to be able to bypass
the inspection step.

In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder to the liquid
state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat the work until it melts
the solder, you won't have the problem.

[William Sommerwerck]

In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.

Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the iron, and
let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever component
is being soldered.

[Scott Dorsey]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.

Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the iron, and
let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever component
is being soldered.

In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You need
to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact with the work,
but the whole point is to heat the work and then the solder flows cleanly
and evenly onto it.

You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes longer to
get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount of heat into
the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly as possible.
Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little heat transfer, not
by too much.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bill Graham]

William Sommerwerck wrote:
In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.

Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the
iron, and let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating
whatever component is being soldered.

I touch the solder to the iron in order to facilitate heat transfer to the
work. Then, I heat the work until it melts the solder applied to the
opposite side. But I don't have much experience with nodern solid state
components, so it is entirely possible that I might damage some of them with
too much heat as you suggest. In this respect, common sense comes into
play....

[Mike Rivers]

On 3/11/2011 10:03 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You need
to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact with the work,
but the whole point is to heat the work and then the solder flows cleanly
and evenly onto it.

Back then you could heat up the terminal lug and lead on a
terminal strip or tube socket without damage. It takes a
different interpretation of "heat the work" when the lug
equivalent is a pad on a circuit board. A dab of fresh
solder and flux on the tip of the iron helps the heat to
flow to the work, and then you add more solder to do the
work. That's not the same as transferring a blob of hot
conductive glue to where you want the joint to be.




--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[William Sommerwerck]

In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder.
You need to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good
contact with the work, but the whole point is to heat the work
and then the solder flows cleanly and evenly onto it.

Back then you could heat up the terminal lug and lead on a
terminal strip or tube socket without damage. It takes a
different interpretation of "heat the work" when the lug
equivalent is a pad on a circuit board. A dab of fresh
solder and flux on the tip of the iron helps the heat to
flow to the work, and then you add more solder to do the
work. That's not the same as transferring a blob of hot
conductive glue to where you want the joint to be.

That's a good description of how many, if not most of us, do it.

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

William Sommerwerck wrote:
In my experience, cold joints come from heating the solder
to the liquid state, but not the joint being soldered. If you heat
the work until it melts the solder, you won't have the problem.

Hardly anyone solders that way. I usually touch the solder to the iron, and
let it run all over the place. I'm afraid of overheating whatever component
is being soldered.

In the Army they taught us to heat the work, never the solder. You need
to put enough solder on to wet the tip and get good contact with the work,
but the whole point is to heat the work and then the solder flows cleanly
and evenly onto it.

You overheat components by doing the opposite, because it takes longer to
get a good joint. The whole key is to dump a huge amount of heat into
the work, flow the solder, and then get out as quickly as possible.
Overheating is caused by too little heat or too little heat transfer, not
by too much.
--scott

I recently met some Neutrik knock-offs that are identical in every way,
except quality.

Attempting to heat the work melted the body slug of the female XLR's.
Had to put the females into males as heat sinks just to be able to heat
the work slighlty and then heat the solder and the wire.

Ruined one slug and replaced it with one from a Neutrik clipped from the
church's old snake. Perfect fit.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://armadillomusicproductions.com/who'slistening.html
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShai...withDougHarman

[William Sommerwerck]

I recently met some Neutrik knock-offs that are identical in every way,
except quality.

Attempting to heat the work melted the body slug of the female XLR's.
Had to put the females into males as heat sinks just to be able to heat
the work slighlty and then heat the solder and the wire.

Ruined one slug and replaced it with one from a Neutrik clipped
from the church's old snake. Perfect fit.

Which only goes to prove... You can't teach a cheap plug Neutriks.