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#1
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Dual Voice Coil Question
I will start by saying the obvious answer to my question is to "just try
it". But in the interest of educating myself, I would appreciate some information. I recently bought 2 15" subs, each has dual 4 ohm voice coils. They are both being driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt amp (MRV-850, I think). This mono amp is 2 ohm stable, yet there is no way to configure the four voice coils to reach a 2 ohm load (I could connect all four in parellel but that would be a 1 ohm load and I KNOW from experience I could damage the amp). They are connected now so that my amp sees a 4 ohm load (through a combination of parellel and series wiring). The question I have is regarding the possibility of connecting just one voice coil from each sub and wiring that to my amp, giving me a 2 ohm load and more power from my amp. HOWEVER, undoutedly there is a cost to doing this, like my subs become capable of handling 1/2 the power they used to. As I recall from posts in the past, the coils overlap each other on the former so I was thinking that by doing this I wouldn't lose excursion. Or would I? Basically, my question boils down to this; does the increased power produced by a 2 ohm load exceed the benefits of having both coils connected. Any information on this subject would be appreciated. MOSFET |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Dual Voice Coil Question
I wouldn't even suggest you try it. Best case scenario is you can only give
the subs 1/2 of the power. "A common misconception with regard to dual voice coil speakers is the assumption that nothing changes if you power only one of the voice coils. With only one coil hooked up, a dual voice coil speaker will suffer a loss in reference efficiency of about 3dB (only half the coil windings are being energized) as well as a significant shift in its Thiele/Small parameters. This renders any enclosure calculations inaccurate unless you remeasure the speakers parameters with only one coil hooked up. Failure to account for the different parameters of a dual voice coil speaker with only one coil powered can result in very poor performance." Above quote is taken directly from JL Audio's website at http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=163 So would it be worth it to you to get more power to subs that can handle less, and are 3dB less efficient? I'd bet not. "MOSFET" wrote in message m... I will start by saying the obvious answer to my question is to "just try it". But in the interest of educating myself, I would appreciate some information. I recently bought 2 15" subs, each has dual 4 ohm voice coils. They are both being driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt amp (MRV-850, I think). This mono amp is 2 ohm stable, yet there is no way to configure the four voice coils to reach a 2 ohm load (I could connect all four in parellel but that would be a 1 ohm load and I KNOW from experience I could damage the amp). They are connected now so that my amp sees a 4 ohm load (through a combination of parellel and series wiring). The question I have is regarding the possibility of connecting just one voice coil from each sub and wiring that to my amp, giving me a 2 ohm load and more power from my amp. HOWEVER, undoutedly there is a cost to doing this, like my subs become capable of handling 1/2 the power they used to. As I recall from posts in the past, the coils overlap each other on the former so I was thinking that by doing this I wouldn't lose excursion. Or would I? Basically, my question boils down to this; does the increased power produced by a 2 ohm load exceed the benefits of having both coils connected. Any information on this subject would be appreciated. MOSFET |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Dual Voice Coil Question
Almost forgot to mention you'll get more distortion from the amp. So more
power with more distortion to subs that will handle half the power and are less efficient. Any chance you can return those subs for a pair of 4ohm SVC's or 2ohm DVC's? "SKaReCRoW" skarecrowatatgmaildotcomdotcom wrote in message m... I wouldn't even suggest you try it. Best case scenario is you can only give the subs 1/2 of the power. "A common misconception with regard to dual voice coil speakers is the assumption that nothing changes if you power only one of the voice coils. With only one coil hooked up, a dual voice coil speaker will suffer a loss in reference efficiency of about 3dB (only half the coil windings are being energized) as well as a significant shift in its Thiele/Small parameters. This renders any enclosure calculations inaccurate unless you remeasure the speakers parameters with only one coil hooked up. Failure to account for the different parameters of a dual voice coil speaker with only one coil powered can result in very poor performance." Above quote is taken directly from JL Audio's website at http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=163 So would it be worth it to you to get more power to subs that can handle less, and are 3dB less efficient? I'd bet not. "MOSFET" wrote in message m... I will start by saying the obvious answer to my question is to "just try it". But in the interest of educating myself, I would appreciate some information. I recently bought 2 15" subs, each has dual 4 ohm voice coils. They are both being driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt amp (MRV-850, I think). This mono amp is 2 ohm stable, yet there is no way to configure the four voice coils to reach a 2 ohm load (I could connect all four in parellel but that would be a 1 ohm load and I KNOW from experience I could damage the amp). They are connected now so that my amp sees a 4 ohm load (through a combination of parellel and series wiring). The question I have is regarding the possibility of connecting just one voice coil from each sub and wiring that to my amp, giving me a 2 ohm load and more power from my amp. HOWEVER, undoutedly there is a cost to doing this, like my subs become capable of handling 1/2 the power they used to. As I recall from posts in the past, the coils overlap each other on the former so I was thinking that by doing this I wouldn't lose excursion. Or would I? Basically, my question boils down to this; does the increased power produced by a 2 ohm load exceed the benefits of having both coils connected. Any information on this subject would be appreciated. MOSFET |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Dual Voice Coil Question
In article , "SKaReCRoW" skarecrowatatgmaildotcomdotcom wrote:
I wouldn't even suggest you try it. Best case scenario is you can only give the subs 1/2 of the power. "A common misconception with regard to dual voice coil speakers is the assumption that nothing changes if you power only one of the voice coils. With only one coil hooked up, a dual voice coil speaker will suffer a loss in reference efficiency of about 3dB (only half the coil windings are being energized) as well as a significant shift in its Thiele/Small parameters. This renders any enclosure calculations inaccurate unless you remeasure the speakers parameters with only one coil hooked up. Failure to account for the different parameters of a dual voice coil speaker with only one coil powered can result in very poor performance." Above quote is taken directly from JL Audio's website at http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=163 Sometimes things are done with the other coil for some crazy reasons. I know I could find a reference in my 20 year reading Speaker Builder magazine. I just wanted to say, you would be able to drive the single coil with more than 1/2 rated power since overall heat is basically in the same place. Only using one coil will almost certainly require a larger box to compensate for decreasing Qts. greg So would it be worth it to you to get more power to subs that can handle less, and are 3dB less efficient? I'd bet not. "MOSFET" wrote in message om... I will start by saying the obvious answer to my question is to "just try it". But in the interest of educating myself, I would appreciate some information. I recently bought 2 15" subs, each has dual 4 ohm voice coils. They are both being driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt amp (MRV-850, I think). This mono amp is 2 ohm stable, yet there is no way to configure the four voice coils to reach a 2 ohm load (I could connect all four in parellel but that would be a 1 ohm load and I KNOW from experience I could damage the amp). They are connected now so that my amp sees a 4 ohm load (through a combination of parellel and series wiring). The question I have is regarding the possibility of connecting just one voice coil from each sub and wiring that to my amp, giving me a 2 ohm load and more power from my amp. HOWEVER, undoutedly there is a cost to doing this, like my subs become capable of handling 1/2 the power they used to. As I recall from posts in the past, the coils overlap each other on the former so I was thinking that by doing this I wouldn't lose excursion. Or would I? Basically, my question boils down to this; does the increased power produced by a 2 ohm load exceed the benefits of having both coils connected. Any information on this subject would be appreciated. MOSFET |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Dual Voice Coil Question
....Hmmm.
All good points (from the other posters). However, my first question would be: What are the subs rated at? I'll be the first to admit that I've never tried it, but if they're rated to handle 1000W RMS @ 2-ohms each, then you might as well wire it up the way you're suggesting based on the fact that your amp wouldn't power them all the way anyhow. I dunno - seems to me like you've got yourself an excuse to help out our down economy by going out and getting a 1-ohm stable Class D Amplifier... }:-) ~Mister.Lull On Feb 1, 8:12*pm, "MOSFET" wrote: I will start by saying the obvious answer to my question is to "just try it". *But in the interest of educating myself, I would appreciate some information. I recently bought 2 15" subs, each has dual 4 ohm voice coils. *They are both being driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt amp (MRV-850, I think). This mono amp is 2 ohm stable, yet there is no way to configure the four voice coils to reach a 2 ohm load (I could connect all four in parellel but that would be a 1 ohm load and I KNOW from experience I could damage the amp). *They are connected now so that my amp sees a 4 ohm load (through a combination of parellel and series wiring). The question I have is regarding the possibility of connecting just one voice coil from each sub and wiring that to my amp, giving me a 2 ohm load and more power from my amp. HOWEVER, undoutedly there is a cost to doing this, like my subs become capable of handling 1/2 the power they used to. *As I recall from posts in the past, the coils overlap each other on the former so I was thinking that by doing this I wouldn't lose excursion. *Or would I? Basically, my question boils down to this; does the increased power produced by a 2 ohm load exceed the benefits of having both coils connected. Any information on this subject would be appreciated. MOSFET |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Dual Voice Coil Question
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.
MOSFET "SKaReCRoW" skarecrowatatgmaildotcomdotcom wrote in message m... Almost forgot to mention you'll get more distortion from the amp. So more power with more distortion to subs that will handle half the power and are less efficient. Any chance you can return those subs for a pair of 4ohm SVC's or 2ohm DVC's? "SKaReCRoW" skarecrowatatgmaildotcomdotcom wrote in message m... I wouldn't even suggest you try it. Best case scenario is you can only give the subs 1/2 of the power. "A common misconception with regard to dual voice coil speakers is the assumption that nothing changes if you power only one of the voice coils. With only one coil hooked up, a dual voice coil speaker will suffer a loss in reference efficiency of about 3dB (only half the coil windings are being energized) as well as a significant shift in its Thiele/Small parameters. This renders any enclosure calculations inaccurate unless you remeasure the speakers parameters with only one coil hooked up. Failure to account for the different parameters of a dual voice coil speaker with only one coil powered can result in very poor performance." Above quote is taken directly from JL Audio's website at http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=163 So would it be worth it to you to get more power to subs that can handle less, and are 3dB less efficient? I'd bet not. "MOSFET" wrote in message m... I will start by saying the obvious answer to my question is to "just try it". But in the interest of educating myself, I would appreciate some information. I recently bought 2 15" subs, each has dual 4 ohm voice coils. They are both being driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt amp (MRV-850, I think). This mono amp is 2 ohm stable, yet there is no way to configure the four voice coils to reach a 2 ohm load (I could connect all four in parellel but that would be a 1 ohm load and I KNOW from experience I could damage the amp). They are connected now so that my amp sees a 4 ohm load (through a combination of parellel and series wiring). The question I have is regarding the possibility of connecting just one voice coil from each sub and wiring that to my amp, giving me a 2 ohm load and more power from my amp. HOWEVER, undoutedly there is a cost to doing this, like my subs become capable of handling 1/2 the power they used to. As I recall from posts in the past, the coils overlap each other on the former so I was thinking that by doing this I wouldn't lose excursion. Or would I? Basically, my question boils down to this; does the increased power produced by a 2 ohm load exceed the benefits of having both coils connected. Any information on this subject would be appreciated. MOSFET |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Dual Voice Coil Question
Thanks greg.
Nick "GregS" wrote in message ... In article , "SKaReCRoW" skarecrowatatgmaildotcomdotcom wrote: I wouldn't even suggest you try it. Best case scenario is you can only give the subs 1/2 of the power. "A common misconception with regard to dual voice coil speakers is the assumption that nothing changes if you power only one of the voice coils. With only one coil hooked up, a dual voice coil speaker will suffer a loss in reference efficiency of about 3dB (only half the coil windings are being energized) as well as a significant shift in its Thiele/Small parameters. This renders any enclosure calculations inaccurate unless you remeasure the speakers parameters with only one coil hooked up. Failure to account for the different parameters of a dual voice coil speaker with only one coil powered can result in very poor performance." Above quote is taken directly from JL Audio's website at http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=163 Sometimes things are done with the other coil for some crazy reasons. I know I could find a reference in my 20 year reading Speaker Builder magazine. I just wanted to say, you would be able to drive the single coil with more than 1/2 rated power since overall heat is basically in the same place. Only using one coil will almost certainly require a larger box to compensate for decreasing Qts. greg So would it be worth it to you to get more power to subs that can handle less, and are 3dB less efficient? I'd bet not. "MOSFET" wrote in message om... I will start by saying the obvious answer to my question is to "just try it". But in the interest of educating myself, I would appreciate some information. I recently bought 2 15" subs, each has dual 4 ohm voice coils. They are both being driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt amp (MRV-850, I think). This mono amp is 2 ohm stable, yet there is no way to configure the four voice coils to reach a 2 ohm load (I could connect all four in parellel but that would be a 1 ohm load and I KNOW from experience I could damage the amp). They are connected now so that my amp sees a 4 ohm load (through a combination of parellel and series wiring). The question I have is regarding the possibility of connecting just one voice coil from each sub and wiring that to my amp, giving me a 2 ohm load and more power from my amp. HOWEVER, undoutedly there is a cost to doing this, like my subs become capable of handling 1/2 the power they used to. As I recall from posts in the past, the coils overlap each other on the former so I was thinking that by doing this I wouldn't lose excursion. Or would I? Basically, my question boils down to this; does the increased power produced by a 2 ohm load exceed the benefits of having both coils connected. Any information on this subject would be appreciated. MOSFET |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Dual Voice Coil Question
That's a good question. They are not all that powerful. Only 400 watts
RMS, 900 watts max. I guess you would cut that in half by using only one of the two coils. I suppose if that were the case, I could damage my subs by overpowering them. Thanks Lull, Nick "Mister.Lull" wrote in message ... ....Hmmm. All good points (from the other posters). However, my first question would be: What are the subs rated at? I'll be the first to admit that I've never tried it, but if they're rated to handle 1000W RMS @ 2-ohms each, then you might as well wire it up the way you're suggesting based on the fact that your amp wouldn't power them all the way anyhow. I dunno - seems to me like you've got yourself an excuse to help out our down economy by going out and getting a 1-ohm stable Class D Amplifier... }:-) ~Mister.Lull On Feb 1, 8:12 pm, "MOSFET" wrote: I will start by saying the obvious answer to my question is to "just try it". But in the interest of educating myself, I would appreciate some information. I recently bought 2 15" subs, each has dual 4 ohm voice coils. They are both being driven by an Alpine Class D 850 watt amp (MRV-850, I think). This mono amp is 2 ohm stable, yet there is no way to configure the four voice coils to reach a 2 ohm load (I could connect all four in parellel but that would be a 1 ohm load and I KNOW from experience I could damage the amp). They are connected now so that my amp sees a 4 ohm load (through a combination of parellel and series wiring). The question I have is regarding the possibility of connecting just one voice coil from each sub and wiring that to my amp, giving me a 2 ohm load and more power from my amp. HOWEVER, undoutedly there is a cost to doing this, like my subs become capable of handling 1/2 the power they used to. As I recall from posts in the past, the coils overlap each other on the former so I was thinking that by doing this I wouldn't lose excursion. Or would I? Basically, my question boils down to this; does the increased power produced by a 2 ohm load exceed the benefits of having both coils connected. Any information on this subject would be appreciated. MOSFET |
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