Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

They are both more similar than different.
Neither was ever considered high end.
Both manufacturers produce competently built, mass market equipment.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still
considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo
audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a
run for
its money?

Thanks

They are both more similar than different.
Neither was ever considered high end.
Both manufacturers produce competently built, mass market
equipment.

Denon also build professional units for studios and
broadcasting. So high end with a long list of additional
features required for professional use.The CD players are
very rugged indeed, and designed for continuous
duty 24/7. I don't think that Onkyo have anything in
this class.

Iain

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still
considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo
audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a
run for
its money?

Thanks

They are both more similar than different.
Neither was ever considered high end.
Both manufacturers produce competently built, mass market
equipment.

Denon also build professional units for studios and
broadcasting. So high end with a long list of additional
features required for professional use.The CD players are
very rugged indeed, and designed for continuous
duty 24/7. I don't think that Onkyo have anything in
this class.

Iain

Afew years back, there was a life test of CD players.
The Philips consumer laser lasted the longest, the Sony was in the middle,
while the Technics player had the shortest life.

The fact that Denon makes units with bus interfaces for the professional
market, or the external casing is rugged, says nothing about the longevity
of these units. In fact, I have a Denon DCD-1520, which is very heavy, but
it contains a Sony player mechanism.

"Professional" does not equate with "high end". I doubt that either label
correlates with longevity. More important is who made the laser assembly,
and the intention of the designer. A derated laser will last longer.

More important is either "availability of replacements" or "cheap
enough to throw it out". I have a Denon DN951WA and a Harris
Audiometrics CD2001 with a Plextor mechanism. I also have the manual,
service kit (extender boards) and a spare laser and bearing assembly.

The Audiometrics is no longer made and spares are limited. I don't
know if the Denon is still made.

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

Depends on what you consier high end.

For me that passes a signa or amplifies it withouot addig any audible
coloration.
By that standard the high end is made up of nearly al components and
receivers.
Onkyo gear is still considerd high in build quality and their sound is
indistinguishable from
most other gear desigend for the same purpose. IOW their gear is sonically
transparent.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still
considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo
audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a
run for
its money?

Thanks

They are both more similar than different.
Neither was ever considered high end.
Both manufacturers produce competently built, mass market
equipment.

Denon also build professional units for studios and
broadcasting. So high end with a long list of additional
features required for professional use.The CD players are
very rugged indeed, and designed for continuous
duty 24/7. I don't think that Onkyo have anything in
this class.

Iain

Afew years back, there was a life test of CD players.
The Philips consumer laser lasted the longest, the Sony was in the middle,
while the Technics player had the shortest life.

The fact that Denon makes units with bus interfaces for the professional
market, or the external casing is rugged, says nothing about the longevity
of these units. In fact, I have a Denon DCD-1520, which is very heavy, but
it contains a Sony player mechanism.

"Professional" does not equate with "high end". I doubt that either label
correlates with longevity. More important is who made the laser assembly,
and the intention of the designer. A derated laser will last longer.

What defines high end?

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still
considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo
audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon
a
run for
its money?

Thanks

They are both more similar than different.
Neither was ever considered high end.
Both manufacturers produce competently built, mass
market
equipment.

Denon also build professional units for studios and
broadcasting. So high end with a long list of additional
features required for professional use.The CD players are
very rugged indeed, and designed for continuous
duty 24/7. I don't think that Onkyo have anything in
this class.

Iain

Afew years back, there was a life test of CD players.
The Philips consumer laser lasted the longest, the Sony
was in the middle,
while the Technics player had the shortest life.

The fact that Denon makes units with bus interfaces for
the professional
market, or the external casing is rugged, says nothing
about the longevity
of these units. In fact, I have a Denon DCD-1520, which is
very heavy, but
it contains a Sony player mechanism.

Or did you mean "High End" does not = "Professional" :-))

The OP was asking if Onkyo and Denon could be considered
as being of similar quality. I pointed out that Denon have a
professional range of equipment, built for studio and
broadcast use, which Onkyo do not.

I had in mind the ubiquitous Denon 970FA CD player, still
seen in large numbers in broadcast facilities.

The principle requirements of a professional machine are
high performance, rugged build, ease of service, longevity.
The broadcast Denons certainly meet all these
requirements. For example, a technician can open the
machine (the main board is hinged) inspect,
and clean the laser in seconds with the unit still in
the rack. That's continuous duty:-)

"Professional" does not equate with "high end". I doubt
that either label
correlates with longevity.

In my view, the former label certainly does. It is
not uncommon to come across equipment in studios
and broadcast with 50,000 hrs on the clock,
with routine maintenance but no breakdowns,
and still performing to specification.

More important is who made the laser assembly,

Indeed.

and the intention of the designer.

Professional products are designed for the type of use I
have mentioned above - continuous duty - it is reliability
and consistent performance which one is paying for,
with negligible down time. Machines of this type rarely
have the sex appeal of some high end equipment.


Iain

Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

[snip]
Professional products are designed for the type of use I
have mentioned above - continuous duty - it is reliability
and consistent performance which one is paying for,
with negligible down time. Machines of this type rarely
have the sex appeal of some high end equipment.

This is all true, but it does not imply that the consumer products by the
same company share the attributes.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

[snip]
Professional products are designed for the type of use I
have mentioned above - continuous duty - it is
reliability
and consistent performance which one is paying for,
with negligible down time. Machines of this type rarely
have the sex appeal of some high end equipment.

This is all true, but it does not imply that the consumer
products by the
same company share the attributes.

Absolutely. In fact the manufacturer may use his
"professional
products" reputation to promote a completely different range
of
machines made for a different market, and to make potential
buyers think they are something which they are not.

But, there is the advantage of the "trickle down" effect,
where
R+D done for professional products benefits the quality of
consumer machines. A good example of this in audio is
Studer, with their domestic range marketed as Revox.

Iain

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Pointless answer noted.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

[snip]
Professional products are designed for the type of use I
have mentioned above - continuous duty - it is reliability
and consistent performance which one is paying for,
with negligible down time. Machines of this type rarely
have the sex appeal of some high end equipment.

This is all true, but it does not imply that the consumer products by the
same company share the attributes.


What attributes?

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

[snip]
Professional products are designed for the type of use I
have mentioned above - continuous duty - it is reliability
and consistent performance which one is paying for,
with negligible down time. Machines of this type rarely
have the sex appeal of some high end equipment.

This is all true, but it does not imply that the consumer products by
the
same company share the attributes.


Rivit. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unk.

The McKelviphibian vocalizes, under the control of a minute neural ganglion.

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of the ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the midpoint of the
scaled body.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of the ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the midpoint of the
scaled body.


As ever, nothing to contribute on the subject of audio.

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

Depends on what you consier high end.

For me that passes a signal or amplifies it withouot adding any audible
coloration.
By that standard the high end is made up of nearly all components and
receivers.
Onkyo gear is still considerd high in build quality and their sound is
indistinguishable from
most other gear designed for the same purpose. IOW their gear is
sonically transparent.

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of the ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the midpoint of the
scaled body.


Grunnnt. Gleek. Urrrrgh. Gruunnt. Gleek. Urrrgh.

It is mating season for the McKelviphibian. The mating call has the
grammatical qualities of a leaking faucet.

" wrote in message
ink.net...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

Depends on what you consier high end. Gruuunt. Gleek. Urrghh. Grunt.
Gleek. Urrgh.

"Consier" is not a word. As for your mating call, I have no comment.

The Bug Eater goes back to one of his favorite whines.

In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of the ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the midpoint of the
scaled body.

As ever, nothing to contribute on the subject of audio.

No matter what the subject, you always sound the same. Has anybody ever tried
hooking you up to a processor, or at least a multiband equalizer?

On 6 Sep 2005 07:08:06 -0700, George Middius wrote:




Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

If it's a big empty box with marketing hype instead of engineering then
it's audiophile.

I'm surprised bose isn't the ultimate audiophile brand; as the exception it
fits all of the qualifications for being audiophile.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of the
ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the midpoint of
the
scaled body.


Grunnnt. Gleek. Urrrrgh. Gruunnt. Gleek. Urrrgh.

It is mating season for the McKelviphibian. The mating call has the
grammatical qualities of a leaking faucet.


Thank you for admitting that all my criticisms of you were valid.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

Depends on what you consier high end. Gruuunt. Gleek. Urrghh. Grunt.
Gleek. Urrgh.

"Consier" is not a word. As for your mating call, I have no comment.


Considering that you get so many things wrong, one would think you'd be more
forgiving of others. Lack of self awareness noted.

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of the
ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the midpoint of
the
scaled body.


Grunnnt. Gleek. Urrrrgh. Gruunnt. Gleek. Urrrgh.

It is mating season for the McKelviphibian. The mating call has the
grammatical qualities of a leaking faucet.


Thank you for admitting that all my criticisms of you were valid.

Mikey, an admission is a voluntary act. I'm not going to say "thank you for
admitting that you are stupid", but you are. You have a low IQ, a weakly
functioning brain, and a poor intellect to match. You should cease
attempting to participate in forums with people who are vastly more
intelligent than you.

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

Depends on what you consier high end. Gruuunt. Gleek. Urrghh. Grunt.
Gleek. Urrgh.

"Consier" is not a word. As for your mating call, I have no comment.


Considering that you get so many things wrong, one would think you'd be
more
forgiving of others. Lack of self awareness noted.

Mikey, you constantly parrot Arny Krueger. You lack sufficient IQ to create
original thoughts.
Mikey, you do not belong here.

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

I can only respond by an example.

I have a five channel full range system for music (with video secondary).
It originally had my ARC 6Brc stereo preamp, plus two Audionics BT-2
improved stereo preamps. The sound was glorious, but I was not happy with
the sound-staging. I knew there was not enough depth and too much
discontinuity from having listened to other sound systems. And this despite
a setup very close to the ITU recommendation.

Accordingly, having been impressed with the transparency of an Onkyo
integrated amp from the early '90's that I use in my bedroom, I started
buying whenever available at a decent price a brace of Onkyo P301 preamps
from that same lineage and time period. These are very nice preamps...six
high level inputs plus phono; two tape outs, solenoid operated, direct
bypass of the tone controls, etc. A real bargain at the $140 average I paid
for them. And as I guessed, they have the same transparency that my
integrated had...now with three of them in the system I get a continuous and
deep soundstage. Accordingly, symphonic works sound virtually identical in
perspective as in an orchestral hall (or the Shed at Tanglewood).

So you think I'm in love with the Onkyo's, right? Not at all. I respect
them...they are well built for their price point and more transparent than
they have any right to be. But next to the ARC 6b, or the Audionics solid
state (both circa 1981) they sound dull and "gray". They do not have the
"inner illumination" to use ARC's description that seems to go with really
top flight gear. Nor do they maintain any semblance of "three
dimensionality" in their imaging, which the earlier high end preamps do.

So for me they are stop gaps...a pleasant enough place to rest on the road
to multichannel heaven, but will be replaced someday by the Bel Canto Pre6,
or ARC's equivalent, or some yet-to-be-launched contender. In multichannel,
I need the accurate imaging more than I do the illumination; but ultimately
I want it all. And only the true-high end has a chance of providing it,
for I've never heard mid-range gear that sounds as good as the Onkyo (and
most fall short of that.

Hope this helps.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

Depends on what you consier high end. Gruuunt. Gleek. Urrghh. Grunt.
Gleek. Urrgh.

"Consier" is not a word. As for your mating call, I have no comment.


Considering that you get so many things wrong, one would think you'd be
more
forgiving of others. Lack of self awareness noted.

Mikey, you constantly parrot Arny Krueger.

We agree on the issue of ABX and DBT.

You lack sufficient IQ to create
original thoughts.
Mikey, you do not belong here.

Did you fail to get your PhD for the same behavior as you exhibit here?
Were they as unimpressed with your lack of diligence there as we are here?

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of the
ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the midpoint of
the
scaled body.


Grunnnt. Gleek. Urrrrgh. Gruunnt. Gleek. Urrrgh.

It is mating season for the McKelviphibian. The mating call has the
grammatical qualities of a leaking faucet.


Thank you for admitting that all my criticisms of you were valid.

Mikey, an admission is a voluntary act.

Not always, sometimes it's unintentional, as is the case with you.

I'm not going to say "thank you for
admitting that you are stupid", but you are.

You'd really like that to be true. Of course if it were, you would look like
a big bully for picking on someone you claim is essentially defenseless.

You have a low IQ,

So you keep pretending.

a weakly
functioning brain, and a poor intellect to match. You should cease
attempting to participate in forums with people who are vastly more
intelligent than you.

Even if all that were true, I'm still better at understanding that one does
himself a disservice by constantly misrepresenting the facts, as is your
habit.

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message
...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still
considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo
audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a
run for
its money?

Thanks

I can only respond by an example.

I have a five channel full range system for music (with
video secondary). It originally had my ARC 6Brc stereo
preamp, plus two Audionics BT-2 improved stereo preamps.
The sound was glorious, but I was not happy with the
sound-staging. I knew there was not enough depth and too
much discontinuity from having listened to other sound
systems. And this despite a setup very close to the ITU
recommendation.

Accordingly, having been impressed with the transparency
of an Onkyo integrated amp from the early '90's that I use
in my bedroom, I started buying whenever available at a
decent price a brace of Onkyo P301 preamps from that same
lineage and time period. These are very nice
preamps...six high level inputs plus phono; two tape outs,
solenoid operated, direct bypass of the tone controls,
etc. A real bargain at the $140 average I paid for them.
And as I guessed, they have the same transparency that my
integrated had...now with three of them in the system I
get a continuous and deep soundstage. Accordingly,
symphonic works sound virtually identical in perspective
as in an orchestral hall (or the Shed at Tanglewood).

So you think I'm in love with the Onkyo's, right? Not at
all. I respect them...they are well built for their price
point and more transparent than they have any right to be.
But next to the ARC 6b, or the Audionics solid state (both
circa 1981) they sound dull and "gray". They do not have
the "inner illumination" to use ARC's description that
seems to go with really top flight gear. Nor do they
maintain any semblance of "three dimensionality" in their
imaging, which the earlier high end preamps do.

So for me they are stop gaps...a pleasant enough place to
rest on the road to multichannel heaven, but will be
replaced someday by the Bel Canto Pre6, or ARC's
equivalent, or some yet-to-be-launched contender. In
multichannel, I need the accurate imaging more than I do
the illumination; but ultimately I want it all. And only
the true-high end has a chance of providing it, for I've
never heard mid-range gear that sounds as good as the
Onkyo (and most fall short of that.

Hope this helps.

Nice to see a post on this thread that is actually on
topic:-)

Iain

" wrote in message
news

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

Depends on what you consier high end. Gruuunt. Gleek. Urrghh.
Grunt.
Gleek. Urrgh.

"Consier" is not a word. As for your mating call, I have no comment.


Considering that you get so many things wrong, one would think you'd be
more
forgiving of others. Lack of self awareness noted.

Mikey, you constantly parrot Arny Krueger.

We agree on the issue of ABX and DBT.

You lack sufficient IQ to create
original thoughts.
Mikey, you do not belong here.

Did you fail to get your PhD for the same behavior as you exhibit here?
Were they as unimpressed with your lack of diligence there as we are here?

Mikey, you cannot judge your betters.
Know your place.

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn
day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of the
ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the midpoint
of
the
scaled body.


Grunnnt. Gleek. Urrrrgh. Gruunnt. Gleek. Urrrgh.

It is mating season for the McKelviphibian. The mating call has the
grammatical qualities of a leaking faucet.


Thank you for admitting that all my criticisms of you were valid.

Mikey, an admission is a voluntary act.

Not always, sometimes it's unintentional, as is the case with you.

I'm not going to say "thank you for
admitting that you are stupid", but you are.

You'd really like that to be true. Of course if it were, you would look
like
a big bully for picking on someone you claim is essentially defenseless.

You have a low IQ,

So you keep pretending.

a weakly
functioning brain, and a poor intellect to match. You should cease
attempting to participate in forums with people who are vastly more
intelligent than you.

Even if all that were true, I'm still better at understanding that one
does
himself a disservice by constantly misrepresenting the facts, as is your
habit.

Mikey, your weak intellect cannot comprehend these matters. Leave this to
more gifted people.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn
day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of
the
ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the midpoint
of
the
scaled body.


Grunnnt. Gleek. Urrrrgh. Gruunnt. Gleek. Urrrgh.

It is mating season for the McKelviphibian. The mating call has the
grammatical qualities of a leaking faucet.


Thank you for admitting that all my criticisms of you were valid.

Mikey, an admission is a voluntary act.

Not always, sometimes it's unintentional, as is the case with you.

I'm not going to say "thank you for
admitting that you are stupid", but you are.

You'd really like that to be true. Of course if it were, you would look
like
a big bully for picking on someone you claim is essentially defenseless.

You have a low IQ,

So you keep pretending.

a weakly
functioning brain, and a poor intellect to match. You should cease
attempting to participate in forums with people who are vastly more
intelligent than you.

Even if all that were true, I'm still better at understanding that one
does
himself a disservice by constantly misrepresenting the facts, as is your
habit.

Mikey, your weak intellect cannot comprehend these matters. Leave this to
more gifted people.


One doesn't need to be particularly gifted to understand that you lie
continually.

I notice you don't claim Dick Pierce is not bright due to his lack of skill
as a typist.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
news

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run for
its money?

Thanks

Depends on what you consier high end. Gruuunt. Gleek. Urrghh.
Grunt.
Gleek. Urrgh.

"Consier" is not a word. As for your mating call, I have no comment.


Considering that you get so many things wrong, one would think you'd
be
more
forgiving of others. Lack of self awareness noted.

Mikey, you constantly parrot Arny Krueger.

We agree on the issue of ABX and DBT.

You lack sufficient IQ to create
original thoughts.
Mikey, you do not belong here.

Did you fail to get your PhD for the same behavior as you exhibit here?
Were they as unimpressed with your lack of diligence there as we are
here?

Mikey, you cannot judge your betters.

So far that hasn't been needed. You certainly may be better at things I am
not, but you are also a liar.

Know your place.

That would be with your neck under my foot.

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Harry Lavo" wrote in message
...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still
considered high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo
audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a
run for
its money?

Thanks

I can only respond by an example.

I have a five channel full range system for music (with
video secondary). It originally had my ARC 6Brc stereo
preamp, plus two Audionics BT-2 improved stereo preamps.
The sound was glorious, but I was not happy with the
sound-staging. I knew there was not enough depth and too
much discontinuity from having listened to other sound
systems. And this despite a setup very close to the ITU
recommendation.

Accordingly, having been impressed with the transparency
of an Onkyo integrated amp from the early '90's that I use
in my bedroom, I started buying whenever available at a
decent price a brace of Onkyo P301 preamps from that same
lineage and time period. These are very nice
preamps...six high level inputs plus phono; two tape outs,
solenoid operated, direct bypass of the tone controls,
etc. A real bargain at the $140 average I paid for them.
And as I guessed, they have the same transparency that my
integrated had...now with three of them in the system I
get a continuous and deep soundstage. Accordingly,
symphonic works sound virtually identical in perspective
as in an orchestral hall (or the Shed at Tanglewood).

So you think I'm in love with the Onkyo's, right? Not at
all. I respect them...they are well built for their price
point and more transparent than they have any right to be.
But next to the ARC 6b, or the Audionics solid state (both
circa 1981) they sound dull and "gray". They do not have
the "inner illumination" to use ARC's description that
seems to go with really top flight gear. Nor do they
maintain any semblance of "three dimensionality" in their
imaging, which the earlier high end preamps do.

So for me they are stop gaps...a pleasant enough place to
rest on the road to multichannel heaven, but will be
replaced someday by the Bel Canto Pre6, or ARC's
equivalent, or some yet-to-be-launched contender. In
multichannel, I need the accurate imaging more than I do
the illumination; but ultimately I want it all. And only
the true-high end has a chance of providing it, for I've
never heard mid-range gear that sounds as good as the
Onkyo (and most fall short of that.

Hope this helps.

Nice to see a post on this thread that is actually on
topic:-)

Iain

About ten years back, I sampled an Onkyo Dolby Pro Logic HT amplifier. I do
recall that the presentation of Pro Logic analog material was the best I had
ever heard. It also sounded good on music, though I did not perform a
critical evaluation of amplifier quality. The piece had the heft and finish
of then-Japanese "high end" offerings, though I do not believe the build
quality throughout was what we refer to as high-end.

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn
day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of
the
ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the
midpoint
of
the
scaled body.


Grunnnt. Gleek. Urrrrgh. Gruunnt. Gleek. Urrrgh.

It is mating season for the McKelviphibian. The mating call has
the
grammatical qualities of a leaking faucet.


Thank you for admitting that all my criticisms of you were valid.

Mikey, an admission is a voluntary act.

Not always, sometimes it's unintentional, as is the case with you.

I'm not going to say "thank you for
admitting that you are stupid", but you are.

You'd really like that to be true. Of course if it were, you would look
like
a big bully for picking on someone you claim is essentially
defenseless.

You have a low IQ,

So you keep pretending.

a weakly
functioning brain, and a poor intellect to match. You should cease
attempting to participate in forums with people who are vastly more
intelligent than you.

Even if all that were true, I'm still better at understanding that one
does
himself a disservice by constantly misrepresenting the facts, as is
your
habit.

Mikey, your weak intellect cannot comprehend these matters. Leave this
to
more gifted people.


One doesn't need to be particularly gifted to understand that you lie
continually.

I'm sorry, Mikey, but you are not able to comprehend this realm. Your weak
mind leads to many mistakes.

I notice you don't claim Dick Pierce is not bright due to his lack of
skill
as a typist.

Dick Pierce has many other gifts that have not been given to you.

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
news

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Are Onkyo stereo amplifiers and receivers still considered
high-
end quality like they once were? Would a current Onkyo audio
component give a component from a brand such as Denon a run
for
its money?

Thanks

Depends on what you consier high end. Gruuunt. Gleek. Urrghh.
Grunt.
Gleek. Urrgh.

"Consier" is not a word. As for your mating call, I have no
comment.


Considering that you get so many things wrong, one would think you'd
be
more
forgiving of others. Lack of self awareness noted.

Mikey, you constantly parrot Arny Krueger.

We agree on the issue of ABX and DBT.

You lack sufficient IQ to create
original thoughts.
Mikey, you do not belong here.

Did you fail to get your PhD for the same behavior as you exhibit here?
Were they as unimpressed with your lack of diligence there as we are
here?

Mikey, you cannot judge your betters.

So far that hasn't been needed. You certainly may be better at things I
am
not, but you are also a liar.

You wouldn't know, Mikey. Your brain is not strong enough to determine this.

Robert Morein wrote:

I notice you don't claim Dick Pierce is not bright due to his lack of
skill
as a typist.

Dick Pierce has many other gifts that have not been given to you.

Nor you Bob, nor you.

ScottW

"ScottW" wrote in message
oups.com...

Robert Morein wrote:

I notice you don't claim Dick Pierce is not bright due to his lack of
skill
as a typist.

Dick Pierce has many other gifts that have not been given to you.

Nor you Bob, nor you.

ScottW

Scott, let's not be repetitious.
Your style would actually be stronger if you confined the statement to a
single "Nor you, Bob."
Mike McKelvy simply does not have the basic level of intelligence required
to make original posts. He is a consistent plagiarist, taking almost his
entire verbal repertoire from the posts Arny Krueger. Even Mikey's humorous
comment is plargiarism: http://www.owtweb.com/resources/049.html

Mikey must come to realize that he has an inferior mind, and would be better
off in a slower track. There are many usenet groups that cater to his
intellectual level, but not this one.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George Middius" wrote in message
...


Mickey, why do demand to be dunked in the toilet every damn
day?

What defines high end?

If a 'borg hates it, it's high end.

Unnnh. Greeeeek. Grunt. Unnnh. Greeeek. Grunt.


In order to vocalize, the McKelviphibian pokes its head out of
the
ooze,
expelling rank air from a bladder located roughly at the
midpoint
of
the
scaled body.


Grunnnt. Gleek. Urrrrgh. Gruunnt. Gleek. Urrrgh.

It is mating season for the McKelviphibian. The mating call has
the
grammatical qualities of a leaking faucet.


Thank you for admitting that all my criticisms of you were valid.

Mikey, an admission is a voluntary act.

Not always, sometimes it's unintentional, as is the case with you.

I'm not going to say "thank you for
admitting that you are stupid", but you are.

You'd really like that to be true. Of course if it were, you would
look
like
a big bully for picking on someone you claim is essentially
defenseless.

You have a low IQ,

So you keep pretending.

a weakly
functioning brain, and a poor intellect to match. You should cease
attempting to participate in forums with people who are vastly more
intelligent than you.

Even if all that were true, I'm still better at understanding that one
does
himself a disservice by constantly misrepresenting the facts, as is
your
habit.

Mikey, your weak intellect cannot comprehend these matters. Leave this
to
more gifted people.


One doesn't need to be particularly gifted to understand that you lie
continually.

I'm sorry, Mikey, but you are not able to comprehend this realm. Your weak
mind leads to many mistakes.

I notice you don't claim Dick Pierce is not bright due to his lack of
skill
as a typist.

Dick Pierce has many other gifts that have not been given to you.

But you're primarily complaining about my typing and punctuation which are
not that different from his.

How fragile your ego must be.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...

"ScottW" wrote in message
oups.com...

Robert Morein wrote:

I notice you don't claim Dick Pierce is not bright due to his lack of
skill
as a typist.

Dick Pierce has many other gifts that have not been given to you.

Nor you Bob, nor you.

ScottW

Scott, let's not be repetitious.
Your style would actually be stronger if you confined the statement to a
single "Nor you, Bob."
Mike McKelvy simply does not have the basic level of intelligence required
to make original posts. He is a consistent plagiarist, taking almost his
entire verbal repertoire from the posts Arny Krueger. Even Mikey's
humorous
comment is plargiarism: http://www.owtweb.com/resources/049.html

I stated it was not original. So what? Funny is funny.

Mikey must come to realize that he has an inferior mind, and would be
better
off in a slower track. There are many usenet groups that cater to his
intellectual level, but not this one.

I'm sure you visit them regularly.

I guees maybe I prefer honsety to originality.

You should try it.