"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
I heard a pair of kickers once in an accord sedan and cringed, if youre
after SQ forget it... perhaps the install was less than optimal though.

Garrett

JohanWagener wrote:

Question says it all. I am willing to spend lots of time on building a
box
but will it as a rule sound better than just buying a free air sub?

It really depends on what you want out of your system. I did an '87
cavalier with (4) MTX Eliminator free air subs. this was powered by 150
watts RMS per sub. this system slammed hard on everything below 60hz.
especially stuff like the Telarc Star Tracks cd's.

the subs were a little sloppy though and lacked the sound quality of a
normal sealed system.

If they are installed properly, they sound wonderful. My old shop used to
use them all the time and we never had an unhappy customer. From bassheads
to sq freaks. It's all in the tuning.

Paul Vina


"Paul Maxson" wrote in message
et...
X-No-Archive:yes


Short answer no, they suck lol.

Why would you spend time building a box for subs that don't need one?


~«©¿©»~

http://home.comcast.net/~wegetourmai...ome.html-.html
No. Try not.
Do or do not, there is no try.
Max

"JohanWagener" wrote in message
...
Question says it all. I am willing to spend lots of time on building a
box
but will it as a rule sound better than just buying a free air sub?

Thats what I was thinking too... The system install I heard was
questionable so perhaps im not being fair.

Garrett

Paul Vina wrote:

If they are installed properly, they sound wonderful. My old shop used to
use them all the time and we never had an unhappy customer. From bassheads
to sq freaks. It's all in the tuning.

Paul Vina

"Paul Maxson" wrote in message
et...
X-No-Archive:yes


Short answer no, they suck lol.

Why would you spend time building a box for subs that don't need one?


~«©¿©»~

http://home.comcast.net/~wegetourmai...ome.html-.html
No. Try not.
Do or do not, there is no try.
Max

"JohanWagener" wrote in message
...
Question says it all. I am willing to spend lots of time on building a
box
but will it as a rule sound better than just buying a free air sub?

X-No-Archive:yes



Paul your old shop is of high self esteem but they lack sub selection.
They lack amp selection but have gotten better there. They excel in
installation
and head units IMHO but the sub selection sucks! Prove me wrong Paul!
P.S. You sold me some subs an they weren't free air? Why?
Because they sucked :-) :-)

Free Air subs suck man. Has the Military brain washed you already?

~«©¿©»~

http://home.comcast.net/~wegetourmai...ome.html-.html
No. Try not.
Do or do not, there is no try.
Max

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:IG3Ra.73860$N7.9037@sccrnsc03...
If they are installed properly, they sound wonderful. My old shop used to
use them all the time and we never had an unhappy customer. From
bassheads
to sq freaks. It's all in the tuning.

Paul Vina


"Paul Maxson" wrote in message
et...
X-No-Archive:yes


Short answer no, they suck lol.

Why would you spend time building a box for subs that don't need one?


~«©¿©»~

http://home.comcast.net/~wegetourmai...ome.html-.html
No. Try not.
Do or do not, there is no try.
Max

"JohanWagener" wrote in message
...
Question says it all. I am willing to spend lots of time on building a
box
but will it as a rule sound better than just buying a free air sub?

In article ,
"JohanWagener" wrote:

Question says it all. I am willing to spend lots of time on building a box
but will it as a rule sound better than just buying a free air sub?



Um... Build a box for free-air subs? That's not the way it works.
They're for low pressure enclosures like a trunk or an external vent
into open air. If that's what you have, free-air subs are what you
need. If you're using a little box that fits inside a car, they
probably won't have much power.

There's a match between a speaker and the enclosure volume. If the box
is too big, the speaker will clip from over-excursion and it won't be
very efficient. This can be fixed by adding a tuned port that will
place a higher load on the speaker where it would normally suffer from
over-excursion. If the box is too small, you can't get enough excursion
to produce deep bass. Adding a tuned port to an undersized box improves
deep bass but only in a narrow-band resonation.

Check out online tools for creating speaker enclosures. You enter the
speaker's specs and they'll provide you with a range of tuning options.
The difference between a good enclosure and a bad enclosure makes the
difference between needing 100W or 1000W.

What I meant was. I don't mind buying a sub that goes into a ported box and
spend hours on a good box. But if the free air subs work just as good then I
would rather go for a free air without a box

Hi Johan, one more thing...

IMHO constructing a good subwoofer enclosure is a heck of a lot easier
than trying to seal and sound proof a trunk, speaker baffle and rear
deck... IMHO not easy.

Garrett

Johan Wagener wrote:

What I meant was. I don't mind buying a sub that goes into a ported box and
spend hours on a good box. But if the free air subs work just as good then I
would rather go for a free air without a box

I don't sell a lot of people Free-Air subs, not because they suck, but
because they didn't fit the application. The store's selection has nothing
to do with it. Kicker was the last company I know of that was making free
air subs and I used them until I couldn't order than anymore. Here's an
example, we did a single Kicker Free-Air 12 in a Saleen Mustang Convertible
and it was louder than the 2 ported 10's we pulled out of it. We ended up
adding a second Free-Air 12 and you could here his car blocks away. I guess
that proves my point. If not, consider this, I'm running my IDMAX free air
in my Passat. I had the option and experience to build any type of box I
wanted, but I *chose* IB. Pretty strong argument, huh?

Paul Vina


"Paul Maxson" wrote in message
news:086Ra.61529$OZ2.11114@rwcrnsc54...
X-No-Archive:yes



Paul your old shop is of high self esteem but they lack sub selection.
They lack amp selection but have gotten better there. They excel in
installation
and head units IMHO but the sub selection sucks! Prove me wrong Paul!
P.S. You sold me some subs an they weren't free air? Why?
Because they sucked :-) :-)

Free Air subs suck man. Has the Military brain washed you already?

~«©¿©»~

http://home.comcast.net/~wegetourmai...ome.html-.html
No. Try not.
Do or do not, there is no try.
Max

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:IG3Ra.73860$N7.9037@sccrnsc03...
If they are installed properly, they sound wonderful. My old shop used
to
use them all the time and we never had an unhappy customer. From
bassheads
to sq freaks. It's all in the tuning.

Paul Vina


"Paul Maxson" wrote in message
et...
X-No-Archive:yes


Short answer no, they suck lol.

Why would you spend time building a box for subs that don't need one?


~«©¿©»~


http://home.comcast.net/~wegetourmai...ome.html-.html
No. Try not.
Do or do not, there is no try.
Max

"JohanWagener" wrote in message
...
Question says it all. I am willing to spend lots of time on building
a
box
but will it as a rule sound better than just buying a free air sub?

It's pretty easy actually. The easiest way is to build a baffle for a
forward firing sub and connect it to a piece of mdf that's under the rear
deck. Seal up the sides under the rear deck and you're done.

Paul Vina


"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Hi Johan, one more thing...

IMHO constructing a good subwoofer enclosure is a heck of a lot easier
than trying to seal and sound proof a trunk, speaker baffle and rear
deck... IMHO not easy.

Garrett

Johan Wagener wrote:

What I meant was. I don't mind buying a sub that goes into a ported box
and
spend hours on a good box. But if the free air subs work just as good
then I
would rather go for a free air without a box

X-No-Archive:yes

I don't have to "prove" anything thus the beauty of Usenet.

What if I said I had 8 of them in my Ford Confine van?
Would that be proof? See?

How many Brands
of free air subs are on the market 10 in or bigger and how many here are
using them
raise you hand. This simple poll will be my 'proof.'

I have 2 10 inch Kickers L710 2003 Models in a *sealed* enclosure.
That's one vote!

:-)



~«©¿©»~

http://home.comcast.net/~wegetourmai...ome.html-.html
No. Try not.
Do or do not, there is no try.
Max

"Soundfreak03" wrote in message
...
Free Air subs suck man. Has the Military brain washed you already?


Bull. If they are installed right they can be VERY effective. But hey if
you
dont like them then why dont YOU prove that they suck.

Les

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:JSmRa.66833$OZ2.12221@rwcrnsc54...
I don't sell a lot of people Free-Air subs, not because they suck, but
because they didn't fit the application. The store's selection has
nothing
to do with it. Kicker was the last company I know of that was making free
air subs and I used them until I couldn't order than anymore. Here's an
example, we did a single Kicker Free-Air 12 in a Saleen Mustang
Convertible
and it was louder than the 2 ported 10's we pulled out of it. We ended up
adding a second Free-Air 12 and you could here his car blocks away. I
guess
that proves my point. If not, consider this, I'm running my IDMAX free
air
in my Passat. I had the option and experience to build any type of box I
wanted, but I *chose* IB. Pretty strong argument, huh?

Paul Vina


My brother installed 2 free-air 15's in a ford tempo. the cannon shots on
Telarc's 1812 overature cd were wicked. that thing would pump massive
amounts of air on those low notes. i had thoughts of building a "W" shaped
box and running 4 15's that way.....

Almost any sub can be used IB without problems as long as they have a
subsonic filter and are not overpowered. There aren't too many free air
subs offered because narrow-minded people can't fathom how a sub without an
enclosure can sound good. Hell, Image Dynamics's Passat had 3 IDMAX 12's in
an IB setup with over 1000 watts on each one and it did mid 150's at the
windshield. I'd say IB works pretty well.


Paul Vina


"Paul Maxson" wrote in message
et...
X-No-Archive:yes

I don't have to "prove" anything thus the beauty of Usenet.

What if I said I had 8 of them in my Ford Confine van?
Would that be proof? See?

How many Brands
of free air subs are on the market 10 in or bigger and how many here are
using them
raise you hand. This simple poll will be my 'proof.'

I have 2 10 inch Kickers L710 2003 Models in a *sealed* enclosure.
That's one vote!

:-)



~«©¿©»~

http://home.comcast.net/~wegetourmai...ome.html-.html
No. Try not.
Do or do not, there is no try.
Max

"Soundfreak03" wrote in message
...
Free Air subs suck man. Has the Military brain washed you already?


Bull. If they are installed right they can be VERY effective. But hey if
you
dont like them then why dont YOU prove that they suck.

Les

I think it's a better way to get really massive bass in a car with a small
trunk than to try to build an elaporate box with a ton of power and a lot of
excursion.

Paul Vina


"Scott Johnson" wrote in message
...

"Paul Vina" wrote in message
news:JSmRa.66833$OZ2.12221@rwcrnsc54...
I don't sell a lot of people Free-Air subs, not because they suck, but
because they didn't fit the application. The store's selection has
nothing
to do with it. Kicker was the last company I know of that was making
free
air subs and I used them until I couldn't order than anymore. Here's an
example, we did a single Kicker Free-Air 12 in a Saleen Mustang
Convertible
and it was louder than the 2 ported 10's we pulled out of it. We ended
up
adding a second Free-Air 12 and you could here his car blocks away. I
guess
that proves my point. If not, consider this, I'm running my IDMAX free
air
in my Passat. I had the option and experience to build any type of box
I
wanted, but I *chose* IB. Pretty strong argument, huh?

Paul Vina


My brother installed 2 free-air 15's in a ford tempo. the cannon shots on
Telarc's 1812 overature cd were wicked. that thing would pump massive
amounts of air on those low notes. i had thoughts of building a "W"
shaped
box and running 4 15's that way.....

"Paul Vina" wrote:

Almost any sub can be used IB without problems as long as they have a
subsonic filter and are not overpowered. There aren't too many free air
subs offered because narrow-minded people can't fathom how a sub without an
enclosure can sound good. Hell, Image Dynamics's Passat had 3 IDMAX 12's in
an IB setup with over 1000 watts on each one and it did mid 150's at the
windshield. I'd say IB works pretty well.


Paul Vina

Not wishing to encourage SPL levels that cannot be safely "listened to" I'min
perfect agreement with Paul here. A pathological problem with 'enclosures' is
that they steal cargo space. A simple infinite (free-air) baffle install is the
perfect way to "have your sound and haul stuff too." It's my favorite for
sedans or any 'booted' car.

IMHO = In My Humble Oppinion

Garrett

Paul Vina wrote:

It's pretty easy actually. The easiest way is to build a baffle for a
forward firing sub and connect it to a piece of mdf that's under the rear
deck. Seal up the sides under the rear deck and you're done.

Paul Vina

"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Hi Johan, one more thing...

IMHO constructing a good subwoofer enclosure is a heck of a lot easier
than trying to seal and sound proof a trunk, speaker baffle and rear
deck... IMHO not easy.

Garrett

Johan Wagener wrote:

What I meant was. I don't mind buying a sub that goes into a ported box
and
spend hours on a good box. But if the free air subs work just as good
then I
would rather go for a free air without a box

I guess I should have added that, but I still feel it's pretty easy. Easier
IMO than doing a BP correctly or trying to set an eq correctly.

Paul Vina


"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
IMHO = In My Humble Oppinion

Garrett

Paul Vina wrote:

It's pretty easy actually. The easiest way is to build a baffle for a
forward firing sub and connect it to a piece of mdf that's under the
rear
deck. Seal up the sides under the rear deck and you're done.

Paul Vina

"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Hi Johan, one more thing...

IMHO constructing a good subwoofer enclosure is a heck of a lot easier
than trying to seal and sound proof a trunk, speaker baffle and rear
deck... IMHO not easy.

Garrett

Johan Wagener wrote:

What I meant was. I don't mind buying a sub that goes into a ported
box
and
spend hours on a good box. But if the free air subs work just as
good
then I
would rather go for a free air without a box

Yeah.. I guess it all comes down to our experience level. The more free
air installs you do, the easier it gets and the better they sound. Same
goes for 'traditional' sub enclosures.
I wouldn't doubt that a free air install done correctly, with attention
to detail would sound just as good as a small sealed sub in a well made
enclosure.

Thats all...
Garrett

Paul Vina wrote:

I guess I should have added that, but I still feel it's pretty easy. Easier
IMO than doing a BP correctly or trying to set an eq correctly.

Paul Vina

"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
IMHO = In My Humble Oppinion

Garrett

Paul Vina wrote:

It's pretty easy actually. The easiest way is to build a baffle for a
forward firing sub and connect it to a piece of mdf that's under the
rear
deck. Seal up the sides under the rear deck and you're done.

Paul Vina

"Sanitarium" wrote in message
...
Hi Johan, one more thing...

IMHO constructing a good subwoofer enclosure is a heck of a lot easier
than trying to seal and sound proof a trunk, speaker baffle and rear
deck... IMHO not easy.

Garrett

Johan Wagener wrote:

What I meant was. I don't mind buying a sub that goes into a ported
box
and
spend hours on a good box. But if the free air subs work just as
good
then I
would rather go for a free air without a box

I wouldn't doubt that a free air install done correctly, with attention
to detail would sound just as good as a small sealed sub in a well made
enclosure.


Yep, I love the way mine sounds.

Paul Vina