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#1
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
I have this
(http://www.crutchfield.com/S-V8nL1LR...61a&tab=review ) amp and Infinity Kappas. For some reason I am missing hard bass lines and hard bass. Is there something wrong? Well, sure it is. I tried adjusting the crossover and I still have that problem. It is annoying. I have no problem otherwise. Should I go with separates? |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
Guest wrote:
I have this (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-V8nL1LR...61a&tab=review ) amp and Infinity Kappas. For some reason I am missing hard bass lines and hard bass. Is there something wrong? Well, sure it is. I tried adjusting the crossover and I still have that problem. It is annoying. I have no problem otherwise. Should I go with separates? My first question is - have you had good sound in that car in the past? Because if you haven't, then you may have problems with the car's acoustics, needing sound proofing, eliminate SPL, Dynamat, etc. I have a car with similar problems. I don't think the addition of an amp is the answer or cause of these problems. In my case, the rear deck has a number of holes in it, so I get speaker pressure loss until I plug them. Then there are the plastic body panels which absorb a lot of the sound, and I have to use sound deadener there. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
"Jack Bauer" wrote in message
.. . Guest wrote: I have this (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-V8nL1LR...61a&tab=review ) amp and Infinity Kappas. For some reason I am missing hard bass lines and hard bass. Is there something wrong? Well, sure it is. I tried adjusting the crossover and I still have that problem. It is annoying. I have no problem otherwise. Should I go with separates? My first question is - have you had good sound in that car in the past? Because if you haven't, then you may have problems with the car's acoustics, needing sound proofing, eliminate SPL, Dynamat, etc. I have a car with similar problems. I don't think the addition of an amp is the answer or cause of these problems. In my case, the rear deck has a number of holes in it, so I get speaker pressure loss until I plug them. Then there are the plastic body panels which absorb a lot of the sound, and I have to use sound deadener there. Well how do you know if that is the problem if you cannot hear it? I have had good sound as far as hearing hard bass before I put an amp in. I hear very low lows, but no hard bass. I heard even less before I switched head units. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
"Guest" wrote in message . .. "Jack Bauer" wrote in message .. . Guest wrote: I have this (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-V8nL1LR...61a&tab=review ) amp and Infinity Kappas. For some reason I am missing hard bass lines and hard bass. Is there something wrong? Well, sure it is. I tried adjusting the crossover and I still have that problem. It is annoying. I have no problem otherwise. Should I go with separates? My first question is - have you had good sound in that car in the past? Because if you haven't, then you may have problems with the car's acoustics, needing sound proofing, eliminate SPL, Dynamat, etc. I have a car with similar problems. I don't think the addition of an amp is the answer or cause of these problems. In my case, the rear deck has a number of holes in it, so I get speaker pressure loss until I plug them. Then there are the plastic body panels which absorb a lot of the sound, and I have to use sound deadener there. Well how do you know if that is the problem if you cannot hear it? I have had good sound as far as hearing hard bass before I put an amp in. I hear very low lows, but no hard bass. I heard even less before I switched head units. You may have a phasing problem. Check that all the positives and negative speaker lines from the amp are going to the positive and negatives of the speakers |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
Guest wrote:
"Jack Bauer" wrote in message .. . Guest wrote: I have this (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-V8nL1LR...61a&tab=review ) amp and Infinity Kappas. For some reason I am missing hard bass lines and hard bass. Is there something wrong? Well, sure it is. I tried adjusting the crossover and I still have that problem. It is annoying. I have no problem otherwise. Should I go with separates? My first question is - have you had good sound in that car in the past? Because if you haven't, then you may have problems with the car's acoustics, needing sound proofing, eliminate SPL, Dynamat, etc. I have a car with similar problems. I don't think the addition of an amp is the answer or cause of these problems. In my case, the rear deck has a number of holes in it, so I get speaker pressure loss until I plug them. Then there are the plastic body panels which absorb a lot of the sound, and I have to use sound deadener there. Well how do you know if that is the problem if you cannot hear it? That's pretty ignorant, isn't it? NOBODY in this group can hear your car, so by this logic, how can you expect ANYONE to help you? Go away, troll. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
"Matt Ion" wrote in message
news:HSJpi.5517$fJ5.894@pd7urf1no... Guest wrote: "Jack Bauer" wrote in message .. . Guest wrote: I have this (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-V8nL1LR...61a&tab=review ) amp and Infinity Kappas. For some reason I am missing hard bass lines and hard bass. Is there something wrong? Well, sure it is. I tried adjusting the crossover and I still have that problem. It is annoying. I have no problem otherwise. Should I go with separates? My first question is - have you had good sound in that car in the past? Because if you haven't, then you may have problems with the car's acoustics, needing sound proofing, eliminate SPL, Dynamat, etc. I have a car with similar problems. I don't think the addition of an amp is the answer or cause of these problems. In my case, the rear deck has a number of holes in it, so I get speaker pressure loss until I plug them. Then there are the plastic body panels which absorb a lot of the sound, and I have to use sound deadener there. Well how do you know if that is the problem if you cannot hear it? That's pretty ignorant, isn't it? NOBODY in this group can hear your car, so by this logic, how can you expect ANYONE to help you? Go away, troll. YOU are ignorant. I did not mean that in a smart ass way, I meant it in a "I cannot hear the bass" way. Meaning, how does one know what the problem is since I cannot hear the hard bass? I'll take the blame since I did not make myself very clear. |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
Well how do you know if that is the problem if you cannot hear it? That's pretty ignorant, isn't it? NOBODY in this group can hear your car, so by this logic, how can you expect ANYONE to help you? Go away, troll. Good 'ol helpful Mat. Though he is half right, none of us can really know what's wrong (if anything) without listening. The best we can do is make educated guesses based on experience and the info you give us. Enigma's idea of checking the connections so that the positive goes to positive and the negative goes to negative is a VERY good one. Bass is VERY suseptable (because bass is omni-directional versus treble) to cancellation if connected out of phase. If connected correctly, and the problem is still present, try connecting them out of phase (just switch around ONE of the speakers connections). It's possible that with the addition of the amp, you have a situation where the distance between the two speakers is creating cancellation. It's a bit of a long shot, but worth a try and easy to do. Make sure your high-pass filter for these speakers are not set too high on the amp. Depending on the X-over slope (and whether you own a subwoofer) 80 Hz is typically a good starting point. If you have no subwoofer, then would want to go lower, perhaps 40-50Hz. Also, this amp has bass boost controls. Try adjusting these to get the sound you want. Good luck, MOSFET |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
"Nick and Tina" wrote in message
m... Well how do you know if that is the problem if you cannot hear it? That's pretty ignorant, isn't it? NOBODY in this group can hear your car, so by this logic, how can you expect ANYONE to help you? Go away, troll. Good 'ol helpful Mat. Though he is half right, none of us can really know what's wrong (if anything) without listening. The best we can do is make educated guesses based on experience and the info you give us. Enigma's idea of checking the connections so that the positive goes to positive and the negative goes to negative is a VERY good one. Bass is VERY suseptable (because bass is omni-directional versus treble) to cancellation if connected out of phase. If connected correctly, and the problem is still present, try connecting them out of phase (just switch around ONE of the speakers connections). It's possible that with the addition of the amp, you have a situation where the distance between the two speakers is creating cancellation. It's a bit of a long shot, but worth a try and easy to do. Make sure your high-pass filter for these speakers are not set too high on the amp. Depending on the X-over slope (and whether you own a subwoofer) 80 Hz is typically a good starting point. If you have no subwoofer, then would want to go lower, perhaps 40-50Hz. Also, this amp has bass boost controls. Try adjusting these to get the sound you want. Good luck, MOSFET Thanks. It hit me again today. I was listening to some Sam Cooke (yep) and you know that older music his hard bass heavy. The hard bass was not even there! I have notice that in a lot of different musical types. It's the good thing I don't just listen to rap or I would never have noticed it. I will try the rewiring of the sub. I did kind of recall the positive and negative being on different sides on the inside of the box than it was on the outside. I could be mistaken, but I will try the rewire. I was thinking of getting separates if this continued. What is a good crossover frequency to set the sub at? I have it at around 320hz right now. The lower I go even more hard bass is lost. I will try the bass boost thing again also. See, I only have one sub (4ohm) bi-wired for 2 ohms. It used to overheat with my last, 3 year old head unit. Now I turned the sub down to prevent this. However, the hard bass is not there. It is a stereo sub hook up. My new head unit did not specify a right or left channel of the RCA jacks. This part of the system is very annoying. Everything else is right. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
However, the hard bass is not there. It is a stereo sub
hook up. My new head unit did not specify a right or left channel of the RCA jacks. This part of the system is very annoying. Everything else is right. OK, first of all, I am NOT a big fan of running your subwoofer in stereo. IMHO, it is best to combine the left and right channels (so mono) before running that into your sub-amp. Again, this may be part of your problem. Although there has been some debate about this on this newsgroup, it is possible that the left channel's bass may be cancelling out the right channel's bass (and vice-versa). Now this is generally not noticable on your typical stock stereo system (especially because you get VERY little output below about 70 Hz on your typical stock system). But with a amp and subwoofer system, this DOES come into play. You see, the bass recorded on the left channel may be SLIGHTLY different than the bass recorded on the right channel. Again, because bass is omnidirectional you open the door to cancellation effects that MAY be reducing your bass output. My advice would be to sum the left/right channels BEFORE they go into the sub-amp. Also (this may have already been said), if you are running multiple subwoofers MAKE SURE they are both wired the same way (in phase). THIS WOULD SURELY cause a dramatic decrease in bass output (in fact, you would get little bass out of your subwoofer at all). You mentioned a low-pass X-over point for your subwoofer of around 320 Hz I believe? Buddy, that is WAY too high. You want a low-pass between 50-100 Hz (depending on the rest of your system). The reason is that, ideally, you want to be aware of the low bass, but you want to make it SEEM like it is coming from the front. This can be done if your low-pass X-over for your sub is set below about 80Hz because, as I've mentioned before, bass is omnidirectional and it is difficult for your ears to identify where sounds are coming from below that frequency. At 320 Hz, I'm sure it's VERY obvious that sound is coming from your subwoofer. I'm concerned that your X-over point is so high because you are trying to compensate for problems that are occuring at lower frequencies such as the problems I mentioned above. A phasing issue would explain all the symptoms you have mentioned in previous posts so I would first focus on that. Good luck, MOSFET 9 |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
MOSFET wrote:
You see, the bass recorded on the left channel may be SLIGHTLY different than the bass recorded on the right channel. Again, because bass is omnidirectional you open the door to cancellation effects that MAY be reducing your bass output. My advice would be to sum the left/right channels BEFORE they go into the sub-amp. delurking If the signals going to the speakers are out of phase enough to cause cancellation of the sound coming out, then when the signals are summed electrically, you'll still get cancellation. Summing them won't make any difference. Doug |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
True, but you DON'T have hundreds of watts fighting it out when done at the
line-level stage, right? MOSFET "Doug Sams" wrote in message news MOSFET wrote: You see, the bass recorded on the left channel may be SLIGHTLY different than the bass recorded on the right channel. Again, because bass is omnidirectional you open the door to cancellation effects that MAY be reducing your bass output. My advice would be to sum the left/right channels BEFORE they go into the sub-amp. delurking If the signals going to the speakers are out of phase enough to cause cancellation of the sound coming out, then when the signals are summed electrically, you'll still get cancellation. Summing them won't make any difference. Doug |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.car
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Missing "Hard" Bass in System
"MOSFET" wrote in message
m... However, the hard bass is not there. It is a stereo sub hook up. My new head unit did not specify a right or left channel of the RCA jacks. This part of the system is very annoying. Everything else is right. OK, first of all, I am NOT a big fan of running your subwoofer in stereo. IMHO, it is best to combine the left and right channels (so mono) before running that into your sub-amp. Again, this may be part of your problem. Although there has been some debate about this on this newsgroup, it is possible that the left channel's bass may be cancelling out the right channel's bass (and vice-versa). Now this is generally not noticable on your typical stock stereo system (especially because you get VERY little output below about 70 Hz on your typical stock system). But with a amp and subwoofer system, this DOES come into play. You see, the bass recorded on the left channel may be SLIGHTLY different than the bass recorded on the right channel. Again, because bass is omnidirectional you open the door to cancellation effects that MAY be reducing your bass output. My advice would be to sum the left/right channels BEFORE they go into the sub-amp. Also (this may have already been said), if you are running multiple subwoofers MAKE SURE they are both wired the same way (in phase). THIS WOULD SURELY cause a dramatic decrease in bass output (in fact, you would get little bass out of your subwoofer at all). You mentioned a low-pass X-over point for your subwoofer of around 320 Hz I believe? Buddy, that is WAY too high. You want a low-pass between 50-100 Hz (depending on the rest of your system). The reason is that, ideally, you want to be aware of the low bass, but you want to make it SEEM like it is coming from the front. This can be done if your low-pass X-over for your sub is set below about 80Hz because, as I've mentioned before, bass is omnidirectional and it is difficult for your ears to identify where sounds are coming from below that frequency. At 320 Hz, I'm sure it's VERY obvious that sound is coming from your subwoofer. I'm concerned that your X-over point is so high because you are trying to compensate for problems that are occuring at lower frequencies such as the problems I mentioned above. A phasing issue would explain all the symptoms you have mentioned in previous posts so I would first focus on that. Good luck, MOSFET I'd tend to think that phase problems would present as more of a crappy quality of sound than the complete absence in the lower bands as he's describing. Rolling down the windows or opening the car doors would eliminate phasing as a factor. I have to admit being a little confused though, as I'm not sure from the details given whether the speakers are 2-ways or subs (or both). Can you elaborate on what else is in the system, and what changed before you noticed the problem? Also, double check the amp to verify your settings for the high/low pass filters which are built into the amp. It almost sounds like you've got your bandpass window set backwards since a complete absence of bass is likely caused at the signal level. Chris |
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