[John Comma Smith]

Hello,

I am going to be picking up two subs for my car and I have narrowed it
down to two subs:

A Rockford Fosgate:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-z1X4pvX...20&I=575P110S4

Or these Infinity's:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-z1X4pvX...520&I=1081242W

Now I know that the Fosgate will definitely sound good, so I was hoping
for some opinions on the quality of the Infinity's. Or should I consider
other subs? Thank you kindly.

[BIG BC]

John Comma Smith wrote:
Hello,

I am going to be picking up two subs for my car and I have narrowed it
down to two subs:

A Rockford Fosgate:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-z1X4pvX...20&I=575P110S4

Or these Infinity's:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-z1X4pvX...520&I=1081242W

Now I know that the Fosgate will definitely sound good, so I was hoping
for some opinions on the quality of the Infinity's. Or should I consider
other subs? Thank you kindly.
IF YOU WANT GOOD SUBS . STOP LOOKING AT CRUTCHFIELD. FIND A JL DEALER LOOK AT
ANY OF THE DVC SUBS. IF YOU DONT WANT TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY. LOOK AT W3'S
IF MONEY DOESN'T MATTER LOOK AT W6'S ORW7'S

[John Comma Smith]

BIG BC wrote:

IF YOU WANT GOOD SUBS . STOP LOOKING AT CRUTCHFIELD. FIND A JL DEALER LOOK AT
ANY OF THE DVC SUBS. IF YOU DONT WANT TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY. LOOK AT W3'S
IF MONEY DOESN'T MATTER LOOK AT W6'S ORW7'S

I am too cheap for JL.

[Mister.Lull]

Given the choice between the two, I'd go with the Infinity.
I've never had that brand, but I have had Rockford Fosgate and wasn't
all that impressed.
~Mister.Lull
John Comma Smith wrote:
BIG BC wrote:

IF YOU WANT GOOD SUBS . STOP LOOKING AT CRUTCHFIELD. FIND A JL DEALER LOOK AT
ANY OF THE DVC SUBS. IF YOU DONT WANT TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY. LOOK AT W3'S
IF MONEY DOESN'T MATTER LOOK AT W6'S ORW7'S

I am too cheap for JL.

[John Comma Smith]

Mister.Lull wrote:
Given the choice between the two, I'd go with the Infinity.
I've never had that brand, but I have had Rockford Fosgate and wasn't
all that impressed.
~Mister.Lull

Do you suggest others?

[Deez Nutz]

I would go with Audiobahn all the way. I have 1 single dual voice coil
15" and people are totally shocked when they find out its only one
speaker. It hits real real real hard and sounds great. Go to:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com

The prices on this website are amazing I have used them several times
and they have allways been great and super cheap. I promise you wont
find cheaper prices, and the good thing about that is you can afford
higher end subs at lower end prices.

[MOSFET]

Given the choice, I too, would choose the Infinity's. The Fosgate sub you
have selected, the Stage One, is a repackaged version of their classic
lowest-end sub, the Series One. Note that the Stage One is the lowest sub
in their product line. Try to ignore all the fancy metal work around the
motor structure because that won't help the sound quality one lick. IMHO,
that sub has a very small motor (magnet/voice-coil/former) and it looks like
they are trying to create the illusion of a larger one by surrounding it
with unnecessary metal.

MOSFET

"John Comma Smith" wrote in message
news:2hirg.3526$5K2.1060@fed1read03...
BIG BC wrote:

IF YOU WANT GOOD SUBS . STOP LOOKING AT CRUTCHFIELD. FIND A JL DEALER
LOOK AT
ANY OF THE DVC SUBS. IF YOU DONT WANT TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY. LOOK AT
W3'S
IF MONEY DOESN'T MATTER LOOK AT W6'S ORW7'S

I am too cheap for JL.

[Mister.Lull]

I like my JBL sub very much...
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLGTO1004D
I think you would like it, too.
~Mister.Lull
John Comma Smith wrote:
Mister.Lull wrote:
Given the choice between the two, I'd go with the Infinity.
I've never had that brand, but I have had Rockford Fosgate and wasn't
all that impressed.
~Mister.Lull

Do you suggest others?

[John Comma Smith]

MOSFET wrote:
Given the choice, I too, would choose the Infinity's. The Fosgate sub you
have selected, the Stage One, is a repackaged version of their classic
lowest-end sub, the Series One. Note that the Stage One is the lowest sub
in their product line. Try to ignore all the fancy metal work around the
motor structure because that won't help the sound quality one lick. IMHO,
that sub has a very small motor (magnet/voice-coil/former) and it looks like
they are trying to create the illusion of a larger one by surrounding it
with unnecessary metal.

MOSFET


Thanks for the advice. Just for the record: a friend of mine said that
the fosgate subs were really good. Guess not.

So which subs do you prefer MOSFET?

[John Comma Smith]

MOSFET wrote:
Given the choice, I too, would choose the Infinity's. The Fosgate sub you
have selected, the Stage One, is a repackaged version of their classic
lowest-end sub, the Series One. Note that the Stage One is the lowest sub
in their product line. Try to ignore all the fancy metal work around the
motor structure because that won't help the sound quality one lick. IMHO,
that sub has a very small motor (magnet/voice-coil/former) and it looks like
they are trying to create the illusion of a larger one by surrounding it
with unnecessary metal.

MOSFET


Also, are soundstorm amps any good? I was looking at soundstream ones,
but was curious.

[MOSFET]

"John Comma Smith" wrote in message
news:8iErg.3573$5K2.2703@fed1read03...
MOSFET wrote:
Given the choice, I too, would choose the Infinity's. The Fosgate sub
you have selected, the Stage One, is a repackaged version of their
classic lowest-end sub, the Series One. Note that the Stage One is the
lowest sub in their product line. Try to ignore all the fancy metal work
around the motor structure because that won't help the sound quality one
lick. IMHO, that sub has a very small motor (magnet/voice-coil/former)
and it looks like they are trying to create the illusion of a larger one
by surrounding it with unnecessary metal.

MOSFET


Thanks for the advice. Just for the record: a friend of mine said that the
fosgate subs were really good. Guess not.

So which subs do you prefer MOSFET?

Well, you'll find if you ask 10 of us that you'll get 10 different answers.
I currently use a pair of MTX MXS12 (they are the same as the 7500 series,
just silver). I really love these subs and I have used JL 12W3's,
Soundstream SPL12's, and Rockford Fosgate Punch 12" subs in the past. The
thing I notice about these MTX subs is that unlike all the other subs I have
used in the past, these do both SQ AND SPL with equal style and grace. In
particular, things like bass drums and the lower harmonics of the snare drum
sound especially tight and clear. There was a very noticeable difference
when I switched from the JL 12W3's to these subs (even my wife could sort of
hear a difference a little) as the bass seemed much tighter, yet they can
also play very, very, very loud. Here are some pictures of my car and my
subs: http://www428.pair.com/mosfet/mtx.html

Anyway, I have been very happy with my MTX subs and would recommend adding
MTX to your list.

MOSFET

[MOSFET]

I've never used a Soundstorm amp. Can't tell you. From what I have heard,
though, I think they are crap.

MOSFET

[John Comma Smith]

MOSFET wrote:

Well, you'll find if you ask 10 of us that you'll get 10 different answers.
I currently use a pair of MTX MXS12 (they are the same as the 7500 series,
just silver). I really love these subs and I have used JL 12W3's,
Soundstream SPL12's, and Rockford Fosgate Punch 12" subs in the past. The
thing I notice about these MTX subs is that unlike all the other subs I have
used in the past, these do both SQ AND SPL with equal style and grace. In
particular, things like bass drums and the lower harmonics of the snare drum
sound especially tight and clear. There was a very noticeable difference
when I switched from the JL 12W3's to these subs (even my wife could sort of
hear a difference a little) as the bass seemed much tighter, yet they can
also play very, very, very loud. Here are some pictures of my car and my
subs: http://www428.pair.com/mosfet/mtx.html

Anyway, I have been very happy with my MTX subs and would recommend adding
MTX to your list.

MOSFET



Thanks for the info on those subs. They are the ones I am now leaning
towards. By any chance do you know of a relatively inexpensive brand of
amps? The reason I ask is that I am trying to stay under $200 dollars on
my sub system( only including the amp and woofers). Thank you kindly.

[Captain Howdy]

Log on to Ebay and check this **** out for under $200, item # 230005733328 and
250005722330





In article vkHrg.3582$5K2.1083@fed1read03, John Comma Smith
wrote:




Thanks for the info on those subs. They are the ones I am now leaning
towards. By any chance do you know of a relatively inexpensive brand of
amps? The reason I ask is that I am trying to stay under $200 dollars on
my sub system( only including the amp and woofers). Thank you kindly.

[Dr Nick]

"John Comma Smith" wrote in message
news:jQerg.3520$5K2.361@fed1read03...
Hello,

I am going to be picking up two subs for my car and I have narrowed it
down to two subs:

A Rockford Fosgate:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-z1X4pvX...20&I=575P110S4

Or these Infinity's:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-z1X4pvX...520&I=1081242W

Now I know that the Fosgate will definitely sound good, so I was hoping
for some opinions on the quality of the Infinity's. Or should I consider
other subs? Thank you kindly.

I bought myself a single Pioneer TS-306C 12" subwoofer and I love it. I have
the DVC version, but if you are planning on using 2 of them you can get 2 of
the 4 ohm version and wire them to a 2 ohm load. the single 12" I have in my
accord is plenty for me, easily the best subwoofer I've had over the MTX,
audiobahn and rockford's I've had over the years. you can buy a pair of
these on ebay for around 100 bucks, which is a pretty decent deal. good luck
with whatever you decide

[bob wald]

theres not a rf/jl sub that will ever touch a infinity sub! EVER!
INFINITY 1 of the best speaker makers in history of the world!

[bob wald]

#1 sub. Infinity.
close #2 sub Pioneer.
#3. ////Alpine maybe
note all i'm sure of pioneer is 1 or 2.
i'm putting infiity as 1 cause of thier greatness overall in speaker
making,pioneer might be better in just sub making thou.
all other speakers, infinity kills pioneer.
jvc***** had a line of speakers out the best i ever heard. i bought afew
of them before they sold out a yr ago.or 2.
earthquake speakers is great too!!!!!!!

[Brian Peixinho]

I have to step in. All these people saying this is good, bad, etc.. It is
simple. You get what u pay for most of the time. For $200, a sub and amp,
you are gonna get garbage unless it is hot.. All of the top brands (AND
THEIR TOP MODELS) are good when put in the right enclosure, x'd over
correctly and powered with the correct wattage. A system is only as good as
its weakest link. A JL Audio 12W7 with a Prestige 400WATT junk amp will
sound worse than an average SUB with a GOOD quality amp and so on.. Common
sense..

save ur $$$ until u can get better.. its worth it
"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
Log on to Ebay and check this **** out for under $200, item # 230005733328
and
250005722330





In article vkHrg.3582$5K2.1083@fed1read03, John Comma Smith
wrote:




Thanks for the info on those subs. They are the ones I am now leaning
towards. By any chance do you know of a relatively inexpensive brand of
amps? The reason I ask is that I am trying to stay under $200 dollars on
my sub system( only including the amp and woofers). Thank you kindly.

[MOSFET]

I have to step in. All these people saying this is good, bad, etc.. It is
simple. You get what u pay for most of the time. For $200, a sub and amp,
you are gonna get garbage unless it is hot.. All of the top brands (AND
THEIR TOP MODELS) are good when put in the right enclosure, x'd over
correctly and powered with the correct wattage. A system is only as good as
its weakest link. A JL Audio 12W7 with a Prestige 400WATT junk amp will
sound worse than an average SUB with a GOOD quality amp and so on..

Ok, here we go...

First off, I use a Prestige amp in my car, you can see pictures and a
description at:
http://www428.pair.com/mosfet/mtx.html.
It has been an OUTSTANDING amplifier and although I use other more expensive
amps in my system (Fosgate and Soundstream), my Prestige amp has performed
PERFECTLY and just as well as those more "prestigious" (no pun intended)
brands. No, I would not use my Prestige amp to drive my subs, but that
doesn't mean it can't sound great performing a less taxing duty.

I COMPLETELY disagree with your assertion that a 12W7 with a Prestige amp
will sound worse than an average sub and what you consider a "good" amp.
The 12W7 is an excellent sub and when driven with virtually any amp capable
of 400 watts or more, it will sound great.

What you fail to realize is that there is a WORLD of difference between
speakers and amplifiers. I'm going to share a little bit of wisdom with you
that will probably cause your brain to explode: ALL AMPLIFIERS SOUND THE
SAME. If you don't realize this now, trust me, someday you will. That is
not to say that all amplifiers PERFORM the same. The better ones are
tougher and can better deal with heat and handle low impedance loads. But
as far as SQ, they're all the same. Now, there ARE some very good reasons
to buy more expensive amps. They will likely last longer if pushed hard AND
they are built tougher. But if you study my system, you will notice that I
have my Prestige amp doing rear-fill duty, and they are not pushed very hard
at all (my rear-fill is barely audible).

Speakers, on the other hand, are a completely different issue. With
speakers, the sound quality you get is the sound quality you pay for. This
is why I may skimp when it comes to amps (and only amps that are not pushed
hard), but when it comes to speakers, sound quality costs $$$$$$$.

MOSFET

[Captain Howdy]

That's funny, Misfit you know that Prestige amps suck balls and before you got
your mtx subs, you thought that your low end JL's were great. I guess anything
sounds great if you haven't heard anything better. As for "ALL AMPLIFIERS
SOUND THE SAME" Yeah they do sound the same, but the window of clean power
output with cheap amps is very small. I ran a pair of soo called 600 watt
Jensen amps on a pair of 12"s back in the mid 90's and they sounded great for
the first 10 minutes until they got hot. One of those amps failed in 2 months.
I even noticed a big difference in sound when I swapped my mtx 801d for a
1501d, because the 1501d doesn't need to be driven as hard and clipping is a
bitch.


Ok, here we go...

First off, I use a Prestige amp in my car, you can see pictures and a
description at:
http://www428.pair.com/mosfet/mtx.html.
It has been an OUTSTANDING amplifier and although I use other more expensive
amps in my system (Fosgate and Soundstream), my Prestige amp has performed
PERFECTLY and just as well as those more "prestigious" (no pun intended)
brands. No, I would not use my Prestige amp to drive my subs, but that
doesn't mean it can't sound great performing a less taxing duty.

I COMPLETELY disagree with your assertion that a 12W7 with a Prestige amp
will sound worse than an average sub and what you consider a "good" amp.
The 12W7 is an excellent sub and when driven with virtually any amp capable
of 400 watts or more, it will sound great.

What you fail to realize is that there is a WORLD of difference between
speakers and amplifiers. I'm going to share a little bit of wisdom with you
that will probably cause your brain to explode: ALL AMPLIFIERS SOUND THE
SAME. If you don't realize this now, trust me, someday you will. That is
not to say that all amplifiers PERFORM the same. The better ones are
tougher and can better deal with heat and handle low impedance loads. But
as far as SQ, they're all the same. Now, there ARE some very good reasons
to buy more expensive amps. They will likely last longer if pushed hard AND
they are built tougher. But if you study my system, you will notice that I
have my Prestige amp doing rear-fill duty, and they are not pushed very hard
at all (my rear-fill is barely audible).

Speakers, on the other hand, are a completely different issue. With
speakers, the sound quality you get is the sound quality you pay for. This
is why I may skimp when it comes to amps (and only amps that are not pushed
hard), but when it comes to speakers, sound quality costs $$$$$$$.

MOSFET

[MOSFET]

Lose the attitude, Howdy. If you disagree with what I say, make your
argument. Personal attacks reflect poorly on YOU.
MOSFET

"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
That's funny, Misfit you know that Prestige amps suck balls and before you
got
your mtx subs, you thought that your low end JL's were great. I guess
anything
sounds great if you haven't heard anything better. As for "ALL AMPLIFIERS
SOUND THE SAME" Yeah they do sound the same, but the window of clean
power
output with cheap amps is very small. I ran a pair of soo called 600 watt
Jensen amps on a pair of 12"s back in the mid 90's and they sounded great
for
the first 10 minutes until they got hot. One of those amps failed in 2
months.
I even noticed a big difference in sound when I swapped my mtx 801d for a
1501d, because the 1501d doesn't need to be driven as hard and clipping is
a
bitch.


Ok, here we go...

First off, I use a Prestige amp in my car, you can see pictures and a
description at:
http://www428.pair.com/mosfet/mtx.html.
It has been an OUTSTANDING amplifier and although I use other more
expensive
amps in my system (Fosgate and Soundstream), my Prestige amp has performed
PERFECTLY and just as well as those more "prestigious" (no pun intended)
brands. No, I would not use my Prestige amp to drive my subs, but that
doesn't mean it can't sound great performing a less taxing duty.

I COMPLETELY disagree with your assertion that a 12W7 with a Prestige amp
will sound worse than an average sub and what you consider a "good" amp.
The 12W7 is an excellent sub and when driven with virtually any amp
capable
of 400 watts or more, it will sound great.

What you fail to realize is that there is a WORLD of difference between
speakers and amplifiers. I'm going to share a little bit of wisdom with
you
that will probably cause your brain to explode: ALL AMPLIFIERS SOUND THE
SAME. If you don't realize this now, trust me, someday you will. That is
not to say that all amplifiers PERFORM the same. The better ones are
tougher and can better deal with heat and handle low impedance loads. But
as far as SQ, they're all the same. Now, there ARE some very good reasons
to buy more expensive amps. They will likely last longer if pushed hard
AND
they are built tougher. But if you study my system, you will notice that
I
have my Prestige amp doing rear-fill duty, and they are not pushed very
hard
at all (my rear-fill is barely audible).

Speakers, on the other hand, are a completely different issue. With
speakers, the sound quality you get is the sound quality you pay for.
This
is why I may skimp when it comes to amps (and only amps that are not
pushed
hard), but when it comes to speakers, sound quality costs $$$$$$$.

MOSFET

[bob wald]

here kids. rule #1. reproducing just low notes is easier than powering a
wider range of the music.
so a cheaper amp on your subs is fine. but on mids/highs. go upper end
brands n price.
also its harder to hear thd on the low end of sound ''dog''.
so dont trip'.
don't go all crazy' is you hitttin it on tha low end with
jensen/boss/audiovox/profile amps yo'.
its all right.
now on the full range of music ya need a better amp. yo'
least i roll this way'.
on the upper end of music i use sherwood.
n lookin at sum //Alpine amps.....

[bob wald]

on speakers.. i got cerwin vega 3ways n jvc 3ways all 6x9s. n sum lanzer
3.5s.
but diein to try ///Alpine speakers....
jl speakers..aint nutin to alpine...i bet.
mb niether....lol

[Captain Howdy]

There is no personal attack here. I just thought that I would state a few
facts. Well maybe other then you knowing that Prestige amps suck balls, but
you do have somewhat of an idea that they suck balls if you won't power your
subs with them. As you said " My Prestige amp has performed PERFECTLY and just
as well as those more "prestigious" brands". Now for someone that is totally
into SQ, as you said many times over, You popped a prestigious tweeter that
you were running off of one of these non prestigious brand amps. I have no
doubts at all that you know how to setup and tune your system, however I have
my doubts that your non prestigious brand amp performed PERFECTLY. I'm sure
that your blown tweeter has it's doubts about also. You tell me?


In article , "MOSFET"
wrote:
Lose the attitude, Howdy. If you disagree with what I say, make your
argument. Personal attacks reflect poorly on YOU.
MOSFET

"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
That's funny, Misfit you know that Prestige amps suck balls and before you
got
your mtx subs, you thought that your low end JL's were great. I guess
anything
sounds great if you haven't heard anything better. As for "ALL AMPLIFIERS
SOUND THE SAME" Yeah they do sound the same, but the window of clean
power
output with cheap amps is very small. I ran a pair of soo called 600 watt
Jensen amps on a pair of 12"s back in the mid 90's and they sounded great
for
the first 10 minutes until they got hot. One of those amps failed in 2
months.
I even noticed a big difference in sound when I swapped my mtx 801d for a
1501d, because the 1501d doesn't need to be driven as hard and clipping is
a
bitch.


Ok, here we go...

First off, I use a Prestige amp in my car, you can see pictures and a
description at:
http://www428.pair.com/mosfet/mtx.html.
It has been an OUTSTANDING amplifier and although I use other more
expensive
amps in my system (Fosgate and Soundstream), my Prestige amp has performed
PERFECTLY and just as well as those more "prestigious" (no pun intended)
brands. No, I would not use my Prestige amp to drive my subs, but that
doesn't mean it can't sound great performing a less taxing duty.

I COMPLETELY disagree with your assertion that a 12W7 with a Prestige amp
will sound worse than an average sub and what you consider a "good" amp.
The 12W7 is an excellent sub and when driven with virtually any amp
capable
of 400 watts or more, it will sound great.

What you fail to realize is that there is a WORLD of difference between
speakers and amplifiers. I'm going to share a little bit of wisdom with
you
that will probably cause your brain to explode: ALL AMPLIFIERS SOUND THE
SAME. If you don't realize this now, trust me, someday you will. That is
not to say that all amplifiers PERFORM the same. The better ones are
tougher and can better deal with heat and handle low impedance loads. But
as far as SQ, they're all the same. Now, there ARE some very good reasons
to buy more expensive amps. They will likely last longer if pushed hard
AND
they are built tougher. But if you study my system, you will notice that
I
have my Prestige amp doing rear-fill duty, and they are not pushed very
hard
at all (my rear-fill is barely audible).

Speakers, on the other hand, are a completely different issue. With
speakers, the sound quality you get is the sound quality you pay for.
This
is why I may skimp when it comes to amps (and only amps that are not
pushed
hard), but when it comes to speakers, sound quality costs $$$$$$$.

MOSFET

[MOSFET]

"Captain Howdy" wrote in message
...
There is no personal attack here. I just thought that I would state a few
facts. Well maybe other then you knowing that Prestige amps suck balls,
but
you do have somewhat of an idea that they suck balls if you won't power
your
subs with them. As you said " My Prestige amp has performed PERFECTLY and
just
as well as those more "prestigious" brands". Now for someone that is
totally
into SQ, as you said many times over, You popped a prestigious tweeter
that
you were running off of one of these non prestigious brand amps. I have no
doubts at all that you know how to setup and tune your system, however I
have
my doubts that your non prestigious brand amp performed PERFECTLY. I'm
sure
that your blown tweeter has it's doubts about also. You tell me?

Well, my tweeter blew because to be completely honest I did not have an
adequate high-pass filter and I was running too much power. It had NOTHING
to do with the amp.

Look, I am just one guy here, and this is just one guy's opinion. But here
are all the amps I have PERSONALLY used in my own systems (not set up for
someone else) in the last 16 years: Rockford Punch 75, Alpine 3522, Denon
DCA-400, Alpine MRV-F404, Soundstream Ref. 300 (three of them, actually),
Soundstream Ref. 705, Coustic AMP-505DR (that was a NICE amp), Rockford
Fosgate Power 360 (2 of them), Rockford Fosgate Punch 225.2, Soundstream
Ref. 700, Prestige PA-440, and Jensen A46XP.

Out of all those amps, the only ones I EVER had problems with were the
Fosgate Power 360. I had ALL SORTS of problems with BOTH of those amps. I
finally got rid of them both. If offered, I would take another Prestige
PA-440 over a Rockford Fosgate Power 360 ANY DAY OF THE WEEK!

The point I am making is that I have used quite a few amps (and have
installed many, many others for friends) and the simple fact is that A) they
all sound the same and B) some are built better than others. Not every
Rockford amp sucks, of course, but I sure think the Power 360 does. And I'm
sure there are Prestige amps that suck as well, but fortunately that does
not seem to be a problem with mine.

I can only speak to what I have used. So when you or someone else makes a
statement like all Prestige amps suck, that's bull**** because I have one
that works great. But listen to what I'm saying here, Howdy, I'm not saying
Prestige is a great brand or anything like that, I'm just saying that I've
used a lot of amplifiers in my life and this Prestige amp I own compares
well with the better amps I've owned. Again, I am ONLY speaking about MY
experience with MY amp. When you say all Prestige amps suck, have you,
Howdy, personally tested every single Prestige amp ever made? I doubt it.
Your arguments would be stronger if you stuck to cold hard facts and
personal experience.

But Howdy, beyond this, you seem quick to attack me when I make qualitative
statements about amps. I'm not sure why. All I know is that my system
sounds AWESOME. I used to compete in IASCA as well as other local shows and
did very well so I do know what an AWESOME system sounds like. Yes, I use
two amps that many might not consider high-end, but I am as pleased as punch
(no pun intended) with them and would have ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to change
them (I certainly WOULD NOT change them just because of their name).
Perhaps this disturbs some paradigm you have that amps like Prestige just
can't possibly sound good and so I represent some thorn in your side. I
represent some flaw in your car-stereo-world-view. I don't know. But deal
with it.

Nick Tanner

[Captain Howdy]

It seems that you are taking this a little too personal. But have it your way.
I wont make fun of your crap, I mean gear. Since you think that all you need
is a good speaker and a crap amplifier and all is equal, that fine by me. To
each their own. You only get out of a system what you put into it.

[MOSFET]

It seems that you are taking this a little too personal. But have it your
way.
I wont make fun of your crap, I mean gear. Since you think that all you
need
is a good speaker and a crap amplifier and all is equal, that fine by me.
To
each their own. You only get out of a system what you put into it.

The reason it appears I am taking it personally is that EVERY SINGLE TIME I
respond to someone's post about amps you feel it necessary to chime in about
my Jensen or Prestige amps. It was funny maybe the first couple times, but
now it is very, very old and yes, it DOES make me wonder if there's more to
this as I mentioned before (and yes, it SEEMS personal).

And you have it NEARLY right. You do need good speakers and (NOT a crap
amp, but) an amp that functions well for good sound. IMHO, that amp can be
from just about ANY manufacturer because I think all amps sound the same.
But, obviously, that amp must perform well. Obviously, if it immediately
overheats or breaks then it is a **** amp. But if it performs well, it DOES
NOT MATTER who the manufacturer is. Speakers, on the other hand, tend to be
a completely different matter.

Again, there ARE good reasons to buy more expensive amps. They are tougher,
can handle lower impedance loads, etc. But if you are talking sound
quality, IMHO, (and my experience) a Jensen sounds the same as an Xtant, or
PPI, or Phoenix Gold or Prestige. This is NOT the case with speakers.

Now look, if someone reading this wants to get all esoteric on my ass and
start talking about "openness" and "soundstage depth" and the kind of thing
they talk about when comparing amps in magazines like Stereophile, well
then, maybe there is something to more expensive amps. But I tend to to
believe that specifications like THD, S/N, F/R are the only things that
matter in a car (ambient noise prevents one from noticing those more
ethereal qualities in an amp).

Anyway, that's just one man's opinion. If you disagree, cool. Just don't
slam me every time I offer my opinion, it get's old. OK?

MOSFET

[Jamie Pruden]

Hi Mosfet (et al,)

I think MOSFET has it... for the most part, amps these days will do
whatever you'd like as long as they are installed properly (correct
gauge wire, good ground,) and operated within their normal operating
parameters (not clipping, etc.)

I use a McIntosh amp in my car... not necessarily because it's a high
end amp (it is) or it's cleaner than most (it is,) but because it gives
me 6 channels of power and it's fan cooled. I don't run it into
clipping and it sounds awesome through my Dynaudio speakers.

Could I go with a "lesser" amp? Sure... and with these speakers, it
would sound GREAT. Heck, Pyramid amps would sound great with these
speakers... AS LONG AS I WASN'T CLIPPING THE AMP.

The other reality is that cars are inherently noisy environments, so
not everyone has to run the quietest, most expensive amp to get sound
quality that is sufficient to make someone happy.

So... MOSFET can run his amps and be happy and Howdy can run his amps
and be happy. Long Live Choice!

smiles,
Jamie


On 2006-07-15 12:11:51 -0700, "MOSFET" said:

And you have it NEARLY right. You do need good speakers and (NOT a
crap amp, but) an amp that functions well for good sound. IMHO, that
amp can be from just about ANY manufacturer because I think all amps
sound the same. But, obviously, that amp must perform well. Obviously,
if it immediately overheats or breaks then it is a **** amp. But if it
performs well, it DOES NOT MATTER who the manufacturer is. Speakers,
on the other hand, tend to be a completely different matter.

Again, there ARE good reasons to buy more expensive amps. They are
tougher, can handle lower impedance loads, etc. But if you are talking
sound quality, IMHO, (and my experience) a Jensen sounds the same as an
Xtant, or PPI, or Phoenix Gold or Prestige. This is NOT the case with
speakers.

Now look, if someone reading this wants to get all esoteric on my ass
and start talking about "openness" and "soundstage depth" and the kind
of thing they talk about when comparing amps in magazines like
Stereophile, well then, maybe there is something to more expensive
amps. But I tend to to believe that specifications like THD, S/N, F/R
are the only things that matter in a car (ambient noise prevents one
from noticing those more ethereal qualities in an amp).

[Jamie Pruden]

Hi Bob,

Please... without naming models and parameters, you can't say that and
be serious...

smiles,
Jamie

On 2006-07-10 12:02:56 -0700, (bob wald) said:

theres not a rf/jl sub that will ever touch a infinity sub! EVER!
INFINITY 1 of the best speaker makers in history of the world!

[Captain Howdy]

Bob is still around? lol



In article 2006071515051475249-null@bitbucketcom, Jamie Pruden
wrote:
Hi Bob,

Please... without naming models and parameters, you can't say that and
be serious...

smiles,
Jamie

On 2006-07-10 12:02:56 -0700, (bob wald) said:

theres not a rf/jl sub that will ever touch a infinity sub! EVER!
INFINITY 1 of the best speaker makers in history of the world!

[Captain Howdy]

What you have said below is very interesting, it's cleaner than most. Some
people will tell you that all amps sound the same. My question is, why do you
need a fan ?


"I use a McIntosh amp in my car... not necessarily because it's a high
end amp (it is) or it's cleaner than most (it is,) but because it gives
me 6 channels of power and it's fan cooled. I don't run it into
clipping and it sounds awesome through my Dynaudio speakers."

[bob wald]

mcintosh is a computer right? mctosh is music.lol
next i'll put my Sherwood xat3000 against your amp any day... .02thd!
next speakers shape your sound in alot of ways. speakers are the
cheapest way to improve your system..i think. n easyest..
thats why now i'm looking for acouple different speakers to have to get
different sounding system if i get boarded..lol
looking at the new jvc..theyre better than i thought..hhmmmm looking
good.
wonder if thier new line sounds different than last yrs speakers???

[bob wald]

next, speaker shape your sound.in alot of ways. better?

[jimbo_limited]

Originally Posted by John Comma Smith

MOSFET wrote:[color=blue][i]
Just for the record: a friend of mine said that
the fosgate subs were really good. Guess not.

Fosgate is a good brand, just depends on the type of sub you get. Punch2 subs or higher.

[MOSFET]

"jimbo_limited" wrote in message
...[color=blue][i]

John Comma Smith Wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
Just for the record: a friend of mine said that
the fosgate subs were really good. Guess not.

Fosgate is a good brand, just depends on the type of sub you get.
Punch2 subs or higher.

Oh, absolutely. I think their higher end subs are outstanding, although
maybe a little overpriced. Their lowest end subs, however, are a different
story. I just wonder about all that metal "bling" they surround the motor
with in the lower end subs. I mean, obviously the basket does not have to
be built industrial strength as they are not designed to handle lots of
power. So, IMHO, you are paying for metal-work that serves no purpose that
I can see. If you REALLY want to clearly see what I'm talking about, go to
the Fosgate website. They have cut-away illustrations of all their subs and
in the lower-end subs you can see for yourself that the magnet and
voice-coil are quite small, yet the surrounding metal work is, frankly,
ridiculous. That's why I would stay away from Fosgate's lower end
subwoofers. Their higher end subs, however, are a different matter. They
are built beefy through and through.

MOSFET

[John Comma Smith]

MOSFET wrote:

Oh, absolutely. I think their higher end subs are outstanding, although
maybe a little overpriced. Their lowest end subs, however, are a different
story. I just wonder about all that metal "bling" they surround the motor
with in the lower end subs. I mean, obviously the basket does not have to
be built industrial strength as they are not designed to handle lots of
power. So, IMHO, you are paying for metal-work that serves no purpose that
I can see. If you REALLY want to clearly see what I'm talking about, go to
the Fosgate website. They have cut-away illustrations of all their subs and
in the lower-end subs you can see for yourself that the magnet and
voice-coil are quite small, yet the surrounding metal work is, frankly,
ridiculous. That's why I would stay away from Fosgate's lower end
subwoofers. Their higher end subs, however, are a different matter. They
are built beefy through and through.

MOSFET



Well, I ended up going with just a single 10" P2 powered by the P200.2.
That metal work that you are referring to surrounding the cone is just a
plastic piece that can be left off. I left it on because I like the look
of it.

I also bought a ported box for it, and I must say that I am throughly
satisfied with it. It is only one sub and it kicks out a major amount of
bass, just to my liking. I like it too because you can only hear the
bass in the car, more than 5 feet outside the car and you can not hear it.

It may not be the best out there, but it suites the sound that I like in
my music. Thank you guys for all the advice that you have given me.

[bob wald]

rf=really fked' lol.......

[bob wald]

LOL.. it gets funnier n funnier..i give this 2nd post a 4.2 from 5...lol
jl over infinity....lol

[bob wald]

look at pioneer subs...best sub under $200..
to me.

[MOSFET]

I'm glad you like your sub. It's great when you get something your very
satisfied with.

I'm curious about the plastic you mentioned. I'm not sure what part of the
sub you are talking about (made of plastic). I THINK you might mean that
ring around the top of the cone? You see, I've actually been very curious
about Fosgate subs as they APPEAR not to be built to accommodate "backwards"
mounting (where the sub is facing into the box). This is a VERY popular
thing to do these days (I do it with my two subs
http://www428.pair.com/mosfet/mtx.html ) yet it appears impossible to do
with Fosgate subs. Are you saying that there is a removable plastic ring
that would make that type of mounting possible?

And if so, the metal work I was talking about before was the stuff that
surrounds the magnet, not the cone. Is that what's plastic (the stuff that
surrounds the magnet?)?

Just curious

MOSFET

"John Comma Smith" wrote in message
news:JCEug.6820$5K2.5575@fed1read03...
MOSFET wrote:

Oh, absolutely. I think their higher end subs are outstanding, although
maybe a little overpriced. Their lowest end subs, however, are a
different story. I just wonder about all that metal "bling" they
surround the motor with in the lower end subs. I mean, obviously the
basket does not have to be built industrial strength as they are not
designed to handle lots of power. So, IMHO, you are paying for
metal-work that serves no purpose that I can see. If you REALLY want to
clearly see what I'm talking about, go to the Fosgate website. They have
cut-away illustrations of all their subs and in the lower-end subs you
can see for yourself that the magnet and voice-coil are quite small, yet
the surrounding metal work is, frankly, ridiculous. That's why I would
stay away from Fosgate's lower end subwoofers. Their higher end subs,
however, are a different matter. They are built beefy through and
through.

MOSFET

Well, I ended up going with just a single 10" P2 powered by the P200.2.
That metal work that you are referring to surrounding the cone is just a
plastic piece that can be left off. I left it on because I like the look
of it.

I also bought a ported box for it, and I must say that I am throughly
satisfied with it. It is only one sub and it kicks out a major amount of
bass, just to my liking. I like it too because you can only hear the bass
in the car, more than 5 feet outside the car and you can not hear it.

It may not be the best out there, but it suites the sound that I like in
my music. Thank you guys for all the advice that you have given me.