I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?

sorry it was not a volume control, it was a knob, jeez this wine is
good


On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:10:31 +1300, bill ramsay
wrote:

I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?

"bill ramsay"

I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?



** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The
Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name - she
strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it
was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet.

Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system.




........ Phil

bill ramsay wrote in
:

sorry it was not a volume control, it was a knob, jeez this wine is
good


Had myself some Crown Royal last night myself. (:)

A look through the Mapleshade catalog will yield all sorts of weirdness.

r



On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:10:31 +1300, bill ramsay
wrote:

I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?






--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

nt means no text...really!

bill ramsay wrote:

I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?




Oxygen free silver wire power cords....

One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz
wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass,
thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally
stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few
thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for
anyone other than the phone company.

"Steve O'Neill"



** Enid Lumley is correct.





.............. Phil

Robert Casey wrote in message ...
bill ramsay wrote:

I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?




Oxygen free silver wire power cords....


My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or
outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your
outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it
went through.

I say to heck with all that,just use a noise filter,and a good surge
protector,make sure everything is grounded properly,and leave it at
that.
Maybe a power conditioner/ups,if you are really concerned..
Short of that,theres not much you can do about the noisy,spikey power
that you get on those powerlines..
I'd think that replacing a plug,an a few feet of those many,many miles
wouldn't make much of a difference,if any at all..Definatly not worth
the $500 or more it could cost,IMHO.I've seen "high end: power cords
for as much as $800!!,matching "high end" plugs for as much as
$300!.Thats plain nuts of you ask me,unless they are made of
Kryptonite,with that cool green glow. ;-)


One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz
wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass,
thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally
stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few
thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for
anyone other than the phone company.

I *have* noticed a difference between speaker cable,and interconnects.
I used to use 14AWG Zip-cord for speaker wire,now I have some "decent"
(Rockford Fosgate)OFC 15AWG wire,and I like it *alot* more.I did
notice clearer treble,and tighter,more controlled bass,right away,and
I was very skeptical and didn't expect to hear anything!I was
shocked,and pleased!I've had similar experiences with interconnects.I
think a system can benefit from using better wire/cables,but I'm sure
there's a point of no returns.Spending a few bucks on cables,etc can
be beneficial! Just don't go take out a second mortgage on the house
to do it. ;-)


I've seen alot of "overboard" Audiophool stuff in the backs of audio
magazines,and stuff. *some* of it can actually be helpful,some of it I
think was written by people who have been sniffing too many green felt
pens. ;-)

*** Some people spend more on their speaker cables than I have on my
amplifier or perhaps entire system . . . And yet if you ever disassemble a
speaker, there is usually chicken**** wiring therein.

If you want to continue to "principle" (or folly perhaps) then it seems to
me that speakers and their crossovers should be modified similarly for
"maximum benefit" (whatever that may be).

Something to ponder briefly.

Jon




My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or
outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your
outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it
went through.

I say to heck with all that,just use a noise filter,and a good surge
protector,make sure everything is grounded properly,and leave it at
that.
Maybe a power conditioner/ups,if you are really concerned..
Short of that,theres not much you can do about the noisy,spikey power
that you get on those powerlines..
I'd think that replacing a plug,an a few feet of those many,many miles
wouldn't make much of a difference,if any at all..Definatly not worth
the $500 or more it could cost,IMHO.I've seen "high end: power cords
for as much as $800!!,matching "high end" plugs for as much as
$300!.Thats plain nuts of you ask me,unless they are made of
Kryptonite,with that cool green glow. ;-)


One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz
wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass,
thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally
stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few
thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for
anyone other than the phone company.

I *have* noticed a difference between speaker cable,and interconnects.
I used to use 14AWG Zip-cord for speaker wire,now I have some "decent"
(Rockford Fosgate)OFC 15AWG wire,and I like it *alot* more.I did
notice clearer treble,and tighter,more controlled bass,right away,and
I was very skeptical and didn't expect to hear anything!I was
shocked,and pleased!I've had similar experiences with interconnects.I
think a system can benefit from using better wire/cables,but I'm sure
there's a point of no returns.Spending a few bucks on cables,etc can
be beneficial! Just don't go take out a second mortgage on the house
to do it. ;-)


I've seen alot of "overboard" Audiophool stuff in the backs of audio
magazines,and stuff. *some* of it can actually be helpful,some of it I
think was written by people who have been sniffing too many green felt
pens. ;-)

The speakers one finds in systems with megabuck speaker cables do not generally have chicken**** wiring in them (there
are exceptions, though).

But many affordable speakers can indeed be greatly improved by rewiring with quality wire and quality xover parts like
polyprop caps & lower dcr inductors, and by soldering the wires directly to the drivers, eliminating loose and/or
corroded quick disconnects which can add noise and distortion to the sound. The benefits, as Nothing40 noted, include
"clearer treble, and tighter, more controlled bass".

Phread


"Jon Yaeger" wrote in message ...
*** Some people spend more on their speaker cables than I have on my
amplifier or perhaps entire system . . . And yet if you ever disassemble a
speaker, there is usually chicken**** wiring therein.

If you want to continue to "principle" (or folly perhaps) then it seems to
me that speakers and their crossovers should be modified similarly for
"maximum benefit" (whatever that may be).

Something to ponder briefly.

Jon




My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or
outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your
outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it
went through.

I say to heck with all that,just use a noise filter,and a good surge
protector,make sure everything is grounded properly,and leave it at
that.
Maybe a power conditioner/ups,if you are really concerned..
Short of that,theres not much you can do about the noisy,spikey power
that you get on those powerlines..
I'd think that replacing a plug,an a few feet of those many,many miles
wouldn't make much of a difference,if any at all..Definatly not worth
the $500 or more it could cost,IMHO.I've seen "high end: power cords
for as much as $800!!,matching "high end" plugs for as much as
$300!.Thats plain nuts of you ask me,unless they are made of
Kryptonite,with that cool green glow. ;-)


One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz
wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass,
thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally
stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few
thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for
anyone other than the phone company.

I *have* noticed a difference between speaker cable,and interconnects.
I used to use 14AWG Zip-cord for speaker wire,now I have some "decent"
(Rockford Fosgate)OFC 15AWG wire,and I like it *alot* more.I did
notice clearer treble,and tighter,more controlled bass,right away,and
I was very skeptical and didn't expect to hear anything!I was
shocked,and pleased!I've had similar experiences with interconnects.I
think a system can benefit from using better wire/cables,but I'm sure
there's a point of no returns.Spending a few bucks on cables,etc can
be beneficial! Just don't go take out a second mortgage on the house
to do it. ;-)


I've seen alot of "overboard" Audiophool stuff in the backs of audio
magazines,and stuff. *some* of it can actually be helpful,some of it I
think was written by people who have been sniffing too many green felt
pens. ;-)

"Phread" wrote in message
...
The speakers one finds in systems with megabuck speaker cables do not
generally have chicken**** wiring in them (there
are exceptions, though).

But many affordable speakers can indeed be greatly improved by rewiring
with quality wire and quality xover parts like
polyprop caps & lower dcr inductors, and by soldering the wires directly
to the drivers, eliminating loose and/or
corroded quick disconnects which can add noise and distortion to the
sound. The benefits, as Nothing40 noted, include
"clearer treble, and tighter, more controlled bass".

Phread
I agree with the above post, the connections inside speakers are generally
not too good, and as stated, the crossover components are not the best
quality. But if you want to keep your system sounding consistantly good,
take your system cable connections apart about every six months and clean
the ends with Deoxit or tweek, tighten everything back up, and you'll be
AMAZED how much better it sounds. I bet that is why new "super" speaker
cable or "outofthisworld" interconnects sound better - you're just cleaning
out the grundge when you plug the new stuff in. I still maintain there is
NO difference between the very, very, very best, most expensive speaker wire
and plain ol' 14 gauge zip cord. I would love to have a cable showdown, once
and for all, and expose those cable thieves for what they are - crooks.
Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t! Skin effect?
That's what you do to a rich audioidiot. You skin 'im!
/regards,
Tom

David R Brooks wrote:

I recently had the opportunity to pull open a pair of big-name
"quality" speakers, that were damaged in a fire, & written off.
The wiring was awful, and the so-called "crossover" consisted of a
pair of tiny non-polar electrolytics in series with the tweeter. That
was all. The bass unit was connected straight across the lines.

Actually, several very high-quality speakers run the woofers full-range
with no crossover, and just have a cap to roll off the low frequencies
to the tweeter. Reference 3A MM DaCapo for one, my beloved Triangle
Titus for another.

IF the drivers have the proper frequency response, etc., the designer
can do this and end up with very good sound and an easy-to-drive speaker
(good for low power tube amps, etc.).

Reference 3A and Triangle manufacture their drivers, so can design this
in ...

The Titus actually has a 2nd-order filter (added inductor across the
tweeter). I just rebuilt mine with premium parts, to good improvement in
sound. With the usual markup, however, the Triangles would have cost
probably ~$1000/pair instead of $600/pair with the best components in
the filter ...

"t.hoehler" wrote:

Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t!

If there is shielding, in some cases it is supposed to be connected at
only one end. I am not an expert nor claim to know-all, but I believe
this has solid 'grounding' (no pun intended) in established electronics
practice.

I definitely hear a difference in ICs (Mapleshade ribbons vs. Silver
wire designs, for instance). Whether the difference is just due to the
inherent electrical interactions between IC designs and the
source/amplifier circuitry, I cannot say. Or whether it's the 'special
chemical metallurgical treatment' or whatever ...

Enid Lumley was her name.....
"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"bill ramsay"

I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?



** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The
Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name -
she
strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it
was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet.

Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system.




........ Phil

"despicable"

Enid Lumley was her name.....


** I know ..... I know already !


( said in atrocious fake Jewish accent)



......... Phil

despicable wrote:

Enid Lumley was her name.....


Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system.


........ Phil



My kind of gal.

Jon Yaeger wrote in message ...
*** Some people spend more on their speaker cables than I have on my
amplifier or perhaps entire system . . . And yet if you ever disassemble a
speaker, there is usually chicken**** wiring therein.

If you want to continue to "principle" (or folly perhaps) then it seems to
me that speakers and their crossovers should be modified similarly for
"maximum benefit" (whatever that may be).

Something to ponder briefly.

Jon


I completely agree! I've taken apart a few sets of speakers to be
horrified by the cheap 20AWG wire inside! Replacing that also helps.

One of my own pet-peeves is in most "consumer" SS amps.They use like
20awg wire from the power transformer to the circuit boards,from the
boards to the speaker terminals,etc,etc. Not to mention those tiny
"staple" jumper wires on the boards. I've replaced the tiny power
wires in a few amps,and noticed a bit of a difference..Worth the hour
of effort with a soldering iron,and a few feet of heavier wire. In my
Sansui I noticed it right away.I noticed a bit of an improvment on a
Kenwood amp,and not so much on a Sony reciever.
Probably helps to lower the impedance of the amp also.
Those tiny wires suck.. ;-)





My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or
outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your
outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it
went through.

I say to heck with all that,just use a noise filter,and a good surge
protector,make sure everything is grounded properly,and leave it at
that.
Maybe a power conditioner/ups,if you are really concerned..
Short of that,theres not much you can do about the noisy,spikey power
that you get on those powerlines..
I'd think that replacing a plug,an a few feet of those many,many miles
wouldn't make much of a difference,if any at all..Definatly not worth
the $500 or more it could cost,IMHO.I've seen "high end: power cords
for as much as $800!!,matching "high end" plugs for as much as
$300!.Thats plain nuts of you ask me,unless they are made of
Kryptonite,with that cool green glow. ;-)


One thing I did see in a stereo shop was patch cords that had litz
wire (individual enamel insulated strands, thich strands for the bass,
thin for the treble, and intermediate for the mids of course). Totally
stupid. Bass won't mind swimming thru many thin stands vs a few
thick strands. Skin effect is not significant at audio frequencies for
anyone other than the phone company.

I *have* noticed a difference between speaker cable,and interconnects.
I used to use 14AWG Zip-cord for speaker wire,now I have some "decent"
(Rockford Fosgate)OFC 15AWG wire,and I like it *alot* more.I did
notice clearer treble,and tighter,more controlled bass,right away,and
I was very skeptical and didn't expect to hear anything!I was
shocked,and pleased!I've had similar experiences with interconnects.I
think a system can benefit from using better wire/cables,but I'm sure
there's a point of no returns.Spending a few bucks on cables,etc can
be beneficial! Just don't go take out a second mortgage on the house
to do it. ;-)


I've seen alot of "overboard" Audiophool stuff in the backs of audio
magazines,and stuff. *some* of it can actually be helpful,some of it I
think was written by people who have been sniffing too many green felt
pens. ;-)

Rick Young wrote in message ...
"t.hoehler" wrote:

Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t!

If there is shielding, in some cases it is supposed to be connected at
only one end. I am not an expert nor claim to know-all, but I believe
this has solid 'grounding' (no pun intended) in established electronics
practice.

I definitely hear a difference in ICs (Mapleshade ribbons vs. Silver
wire designs, for instance). Whether the difference is just due to the
inherent electrical interactions between IC designs and the
source/amplifier circuitry, I cannot say. Or whether it's the 'special
chemical metallurgical treatment' or whatever ...

I have a "directional" Monstercable subwoofer cable.
I called BS at first,untill I unscrewed the covers over the RCA
connectors on each end.. *ah-ha!*
Theres *3* wires,GND shield,Signal,and GND again,but the third GND
wire is only connected to GND at one end.Thus "semi-balanced" or
whatever they call it.
I guess it is "directional" in a sense..

"Nothing40" wrote in message
om...

One of my own pet-peeves is in most "consumer" SS amps.They use like 20awg
wire from the power transformer to the circuit boards,from the boards to the
speaker terminals,etc,etc.
Not to mention those tiny "staple" jumper wires on the boards. I've
replaced the tiny power wires in a few amps,and noticed a bit of a
difference..Worth the hour of effort with a soldering iron,and a few feet of
heavier wire. In my Sansui I noticed it right away.I noticed a bit of an
improvment on a Kenwood amp,and not so much on a Sony reciever.
Probably helps to lower the impedance of the amp also.
Those tiny wires suck.. ;-)

More likely you fixed a couple of potential dry joints .....

Possibly Phil Allison crapping on about the high volume power of quad
electrostatic speakers and how anybody who complains about their low
bass output is HT knuckle dragger or boom box freak.

Then discovering later on that when Phil Allison actually owned a pair
of quad electrostatic speakers he actually used them with a subwoofer
himself.

Or maybe Phil Allison claiming audiophile quality sound from a
modified JH turntable.

wrote:

Phil Allison

Agreed.

LV

Raymond Koonce wrote in news:1030ceqhgpnfg25
@corp.supernews.com:

despicable wrote:

Enid Lumley was her name.....


Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system.


........ Phil



My kind of gal.



There is a reason why she is not in print today and it is because her
ideas were not replicable.


r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

if 'replicability' was a standard, then most hifi hacks would be out of
work!


"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
. 44...
Raymond Koonce wrote in news:1030ceqhgpnfg25
@corp.supernews.com:

despicable wrote:

Enid Lumley was her name.....


Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system.


........ Phil



My kind of gal.



There is a reason why she is not in print today and it is because her
ideas were not replicable.


r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

Can't agree more. The argument around oxygen free copper is a case in
point. The impurity amount in "oxygen free" and "non-oxygen free" copper is
identical, as is the sound. I've often thought that if I ran out of work I
could always buy zip cord at Home Depot and sell it for hundreds of dollars
a foot to audiophiles.


Phread
I agree with the above post, the connections inside speakers are
generally
not too good, and as stated, the crossover components are not the best
quality. But if you want to keep your system sounding consistantly good,
take your system cable connections apart about every six months and clean
the ends with Deoxit or tweek, tighten everything back up, and you'll be
AMAZED how much better it sounds. I bet that is why new "super" speaker
cable or "outofthisworld" interconnects sound better - you're just
cleaning
out the grundge when you plug the new stuff in. I still maintain there is
NO difference between the very, very, very best, most expensive speaker
wire
and plain ol' 14 gauge zip cord. I would love to have a cable showdown,
once
and for all, and expose those cable thieves for what they are - crooks.
Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t! Skin effect?
That's what you do to a rich audioidiot. You skin 'im!
/regards,
Tom

My question,whenever I see a "super-duper" power cord,or plug,or
outlet is.."Well,what about the 100+ miles of wire between your
outlet,and the power plant? Not to mention the 4-5 big transformers it
went through.

RF rejection is done at the termination point, meaning if a power cord has
good RF rejection, it prevents the accumulation from the 100+ miles of
outside wiring from entering the amp, and instead taking the path of
lesser
resistance through other devices like lamps. Believe it or not, the best
place for an RF filter on a Rega Planar 3 turntable is on the power cord,
even though Rega cartridges aren't especially well shielded

My company sells and repairs hospital electronic equipment, and the only
diff in power cables is the heavier gauge of the conductors (useful if
you're powering an electrosurgical unit, or an x ray machine) and the
quality of the connecting mechanisms in the plug and the IEC female end, and
that is mostly to ruggedize the ends so they stand up under hospital abuse.
But again, if the power supply of the amp, turntable, etc. is worth the
price (!) you paid at that high end audio salon, then the quality of the ac
being supplied is not a factor on sound. It's just not. Further, if the
power supply and/or rf rejection of the high end amp or turntable is not up
to snuff, why in heaven's name did you spend the big bucks in the first
place? I mean, would you buy a $65,000 BMW and immediately start hanging
geegaws from J.C. Whitney on it? C'mon, let's have a reality check here
folks. When I think of power conditioners et al, I remember the infamous
TICE CLOCK of the eighties. Oh My God! Did old man Tice take a bunch of
rich suckers for a ride with that one! That was a case of hype and bulls**t
marketing overriding common sense. Do I have a power conditioner on my audio
equipment? You bet. Is it a megabuck super duper conditonioner with a
stratospheric price tag? No way, just a good quality spike and noise
isolation system commonly used for (gasp!) computer systems. It does nothing
for the sound, but it prevents damage from ac line trash. There are some
terrible spikes and glitches out there just waiting to mop out your audio
junk. I suppose you can psych yourself into believing anything, and it's
YOUR money, but for once, instead of trying to improve, improve, improve,
why not just kick back, and LISTEN to the MUSIC. To hell with the delivery
system, enjoy the reason you have all that hifi junk - - - THE MUSIC.
Whew! Jumping down from the soapbox now!
/regards to all happy ears,
Tom

What the hell is Oxygen-free copper? Does it mean that the conductor is not
corroded?
The only issue for any conductor - no matter if its for sound or power - is
reactance,resistance, and ampacity. Aside from shielding for small signals,
etc - and insulation/jacket material to protect the conductor in the
environment, copper is copper is copper.



--
JAMES RUGGIERI
"dcoff" wrote in message
...
Can't agree more. The argument around oxygen free copper is a case in
point. The impurity amount in "oxygen free" and "non-oxygen free" copper
is
identical, as is the sound. I've often thought that if I ran out of work
I
could always buy zip cord at Home Depot and sell it for hundreds of
dollars
a foot to audiophiles.


Phread
I agree with the above post, the connections inside speakers are
generally
not too good, and as stated, the crossover components are not the best
quality. But if you want to keep your system sounding consistantly good,
take your system cable connections apart about every six months and
clean
the ends with Deoxit or tweek, tighten everything back up, and you'll be
AMAZED how much better it sounds. I bet that is why new "super" speaker
cable or "outofthisworld" interconnects sound better - you're just
cleaning
out the grundge when you plug the new stuff in. I still maintain there
is
NO difference between the very, very, very best, most expensive speaker
wire
and plain ol' 14 gauge zip cord. I would love to have a cable showdown,
once
and for all, and expose those cable thieves for what they are - crooks.
Directional interconnects -- oh c'mon!! What total bulls**t! Skin
effect?
That's what you do to a rich audioidiot. You skin 'im!
/regards,
Tom

Do I have a power conditioner on my audio
equipment? You bet. Is it a megabuck super duper conditonioner with a
stratospheric price tag? No way, just a good quality spike and noise
isolation system commonly used for (gasp!) computer systems. It does nothing
for the sound, but it prevents damage from ac line trash. There are some
terrible spikes and glitches out there just waiting to mop out your audio
junk.

This is a point I find really, really hard to believe.Aside from lightning
damage, has anyone out there actually had equipment damaged by power quality
issues?? Isn't this the reason why filter capacitors are bypassed, and
amplifiers are fused? I have always plugged everything including my computer
directly into the AC line, and never, ever experienced a problem... maybe
someone else out there has, and I can see the value of a UPS for a computer
system, or of a variac if the line voltage is low... but what's with this power
conditioner for audio equipment stuff??

I can't see it doing anything but adding impedance to the line feeding the
equipment, and maybe taking out a bit of noise which would be removed in the
equipment's power supply anyways.

"MaxH" wrote in message ...
Do I have a power conditioner on my audio
equipment? You bet. Is it a megabuck super duper conditonioner with a
stratospheric price tag? No way, just a good quality spike and noise
isolation system commonly used for (gasp!) computer systems. It does
nothing
for the sound, but it prevents damage from ac line trash. There are some
terrible spikes and glitches out there just waiting to mop out your
audio
junk.

This is a point I find really, really hard to believe.Aside from lightning
damage, has anyone out there actually had equipment damaged by power
quality
issues?? Isn't this the reason why filter capacitors are bypassed, and
amplifiers are fused? I have always plugged everything including my
computer
directly into the AC line, and never, ever experienced a problem... maybe
someone else out there has, and I can see the value of a UPS for a
computer
system, or of a variac if the line voltage is low... but what's with this
power
conditioner for audio equipment stuff??

I can't see it doing anything but adding impedance to the line feeding the
equipment, and maybe taking out a bit of noise which would be removed in
the
equipment's power supply anyways.

You are quite right, the noise reduction feature is rather moot, given the
bypassing that's already in the equipment. But a real threat to equipment is
lightning. Not a direct strike, of course, that would be bad. But the
induced spikes that ride in on the ac line can be enormous. Quite a few of
my neighbors have lost tv sets, air conditioner compressors, vcrs etc. to
line spikes. At least that's what the insurance companies said. Maybe it's
just a rattletrap ac distribution system we have here, but the line
conditioner has so far kept bad stuff out of the hifi junk. Also have one on
the tv junk and the computer junk. These filters do add some impedance,
that's for sure, but since the current drawn by the system is so small, 400
watts at most, I haven't heard any sonic degradation.
regards,
Tom

MaxH wrote:

Do I have a power conditioner on my audio
equipment? You bet. Is it a megabuck super duper conditonioner with a
stratospheric price tag? No way, just a good quality spike and noise
isolation system commonly used for (gasp!) computer systems. It does nothing
for the sound, but it prevents damage from ac line trash. There are some
terrible spikes and glitches out there just waiting to mop out your audio
junk.


This is a point I find really, really hard to believe.Aside from lightning
damage, has anyone out there actually had equipment damaged by power quality
issues??

Yes. A few years ago, the local utility's control system broke down, and
the voltage over the whole local system briefyl soared to over 200 volts
(from 120) before the back-up emergency shutdown activated. To their
credit, they were very good about reimbursing customers for blown up
computers, stereo gear, televisions, even microwave ovens.

However, they only reimbursed for immediate damage, since there is no
way to prove that failures weeks or months later were caused by
components weakened by the surge.

Isn't this the reason why filter capacitors are bypassed,

I presume you mean bypassed by resistors? No. The main purpose of bypass
resistors is to act as bleeders on power-down, to reduce the chance of
shock from charged capacitors. A secondary purpose is to slightly reduce
the higher-than-normal voltage across the capacitors before the tubes
warm up.

and
amplifiers are fused?

Fuses are more of a fire/ smoke/ meltdown preventative. They do take a
finite time to blow -- rarely a problem with tube gear, granted;
however, in solid-state gear the fastest acting fuse is always the most
expensive transistor or IC. (cf. "Murphy's Law")

I have always plugged everything including my computer
directly into the AC line, and never, ever experienced a problem...

Count your blessings! I'm not so fortunate. ;-)

maybe
someone else out there has, and I can see the value of a UPS for a computer
system, or of a variac if the line voltage is low... but what's with this power
conditioner for audio equipment stuff??

Depends what you mean by "power conditioner." A decent surge-suppressor
(using nice big MOVs capable of dumping many joules of energy) is a good
idea even for your less valuable electronic possessions. If a couple
dual-wound toroids and maybe a couple capacitors are included for RFI
suppression, all the better. (However, this is not normally an issue
unless you live close to an AM station, or maybe right next door to an
amateur or commercial station.)

I can't see it doing anything but adding impedance to the line feeding the
equipment, and maybe taking out a bit of noise which would be removed in the
equipment's power supply anyways.


Consider that the run of wire to your nearest pole-pig plus your house
wiring is a lot longer than the extra three feet for a surge/RFI power
bar... Then consider that even this distance is negligible for small
currents (under 100 amps or so) since it represents only a small
fraction of an ohm... whereas the resistance presented by an amplifier
drawing -- say 120 watts -- is about 120 ohms. The tiny voltage drop
that results is dwarved by even the normal fluctuations as your water
heater comes on and off.

Never mind the power utility -- it's, after all, just a utility. Play
your amp, enjoy the music.

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
news:6rV_b.66965$Hy3.63109@edtnps89...
The tiny voltage drop
that results is dwarved by even the normal fluctuations as your water
heater comes on and off.

Wow, even our gas heaters? ;o)

(I'd think those would make it sound warmer though...)

Tim

--
"I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson | Electronics,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --+ Metalcasting
and Games: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Tim Williams wrote:
"Fred Nachbaur" wrote in message
news:6rV_b.66965$Hy3.63109@edtnps89...

The tiny voltage drop
that results is dwarved by even the normal fluctuations as your water
heater comes on and off.


Wow, even our gas heaters? ;o)

Well, even a gas heater... hey wait, there's those microcurrent valves
that operate directly from a thermocouple... never mind. :-x

(I'd think those would make it sound warmer though...)

Tim

--
"I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson

"Very funny, Scottie. Now beam me up." - James T. Kirk

--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

The scary thing is I worked on an rather expensive phono pre-amplifier
that had been "improved" through the installation of literally dozens of
these little tin foil triangles. Now this pre-amplifier had full
regulation and a 650V raw supply. Needless to say it was NOT working
well when the desperate owner brought it to me. A few fried resistor
replacements and a complete "debelting" later and all was fine. I got
paid quite a tidy sum to undo what should not have been done in the
first place. LOL


Phil Allison wrote:
"bill ramsay"

I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?




** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The
Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name - she
strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it
was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet.

Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system.




........ Phil

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 03:35:43 GMT, Kevin Kennedy
wrote:

The scary thing is I worked on an rather expensive phono pre-amplifier
that had been "improved" through the installation of literally dozens of
these little tin foil triangles. Now this pre-amplifier had full
regulation and a 650V raw supply. Needless to say it was NOT working
well when the desperate owner brought it to me. A few fried resistor
replacements and a complete "debelting" later and all was fine. I got
paid quite a tidy sum to undo what should not have been done in the
first place. LOL


Phil Allison wrote:
"bill ramsay"

I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?




** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The
Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name - she
strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it
was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet.

Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system.




........ Phil



I like those articles referring to SS equipment with 'no feedback'.

I know triode tubes can sound and function great with no feedback, but a string
of transistors?

I'd LOVE to see someone build a working amp with a string of 5 series connected
beta 500 transistors and NO FEEDBACK!! ( I could never get 2 to work!)

The funniest one I remember was in UHF rag where they claimed that there was no
feedback because another amp stage picked up the signal and compared it to the
original and fixed it... ( to the um-initiated, that's the definition of a
feedback circuit!)

I wrote to these turkeys once, offering to circle the feedback components on
their schematic and return it to them, but they ignored me!

Another funny one is where the feedback circuit doesn't pick up the first strum
of a guitar, making it sound harsh, until it 'kicks in later' fixing the sound!!
So we just shouldn't have it!!

People are such dolts sometimes!

Yep,
Nothing like the voodoo mods to really screw up a fine piece of
audio equipment!

Kevin Kennedy wrote:

The scary thing is I worked on an rather expensive phono pre-amplifier
that had been "improved" through the installation of literally dozens of
these little tin foil triangles. Now this pre-amplifier had full
regulation and a 650V raw supply. Needless to say it was NOT working
well when the desperate owner brought it to me. A few fried resistor
replacements and a complete "debelting" later and all was fine. I got
paid quite a tidy sum to undo what should not have been done in the
first place. LOL


Phil Allison wrote:

"bill ramsay"

I saw earlier today the 800 dollar wooden volume contol, my 10 year
old saw it as well, he was, well. stupiefied [speling a bit off, half
way through a bottle of v nice sav blanc from marlborough]

anyway, the silliest thing i ever saw was some stuff from a peter belt
in the uk.

he claimed that belt 'oil' wrapped in little balls of blu-tak, that
non sticky stuff used to hold poster on the wall, suspended in mains
cords to amps had an effect.

likewise his other idea, books with odd number pages in the same room
as the audio device had a bad effect, which could be resolved with
the application of little tin foil triangles to the book. Similarly
doors were a bad thing, but they too could be 'repaired' with the
application of little tin foil triangles.

i got some free once through a uk mag when i lived in the south of
england.

pretty weird eh?

can you do better than that?





** There was this completely mad woman who wrote articles for "The
Absolute Sound" magazine in the late 1970s - sorry, forget her name
- she
strongly recommended that any TV set in the house be adjusted so that it
was not tuned in to any station nor plugged into any power outlet.

Naturally no TV should ever be in the same room as the hi-fi system.




........ Phil