What is the difference? I have trouble opening PCM files with various audio
programs!

Thanks all!

Ray

PCM = Pulse Code Modulated

PCM is the format of the actual audio data

WAV is a storage medium for audio data -- a file format. WAV files can
contain various data formats -- PCM being one of them.

Perhaps you have RAW data files -- in that case use my free utility sdTwoWav
to convert them to WAV files.

Rail
--
Recording Engineer/Software Developer
Rail Jon Rogut Software
http://www.railjonrogut.com


"itemyar" wrote in message
...
What is the difference? I have trouble opening PCM files with various
audio programs!

Thanks all!

Ray

"Rail Jon Rogut" writes:

PCM = Pulse Code Modulated

Close. Pulse Code Modulation.
--
% Randy Yates % "She's sweet on Wagner-I think she'd die for Beethoven.
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % She love the way Puccini lays down a tune, and
%%% 919-577-9882 % Verdi's always creepin' from her room."
%%%% % "Rockaria", *A New World Record*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

"itemyar" wrote in message
...
What is the difference? I have trouble opening PCM files with various
audio programs!

Most (all ?) WAV files are linear PCM. Don't know what application creates
files with a suffix PCM, but you should be able to load back and resave as
WAV without losing anything.


geoff

itemyar wrote:
What is the difference? I have trouble opening PCM files with various audio
programs!

PCM is the method of converting analog voltage to a binary number.

WAV is a file format that Microsoft defined for storing PCM-encoded
audio.

If you're having trouble opening audio files, it may be because
whatever program you're opening them with cannot accommodate the word
length of sample rate, or there's something in the header (non-audio)
portion of the file that your program doens't like.

Try another program.

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
itemyar wrote:
What is the difference? I have trouble opening PCM
files with various audio programs!

PCM is the method of converting analog voltage to a binary number.

"PCM" is a fancy marketing-speak TLA (three-letter
acronym) which means "digital" to normal people.

At some level, ALL audio files are "PCM". You need
more detailed information about the file than just "PCM".

Is the file name actually "whatever.pcm"? Where did it
come from? What software produced it? What does it
look like when you open it in a text editor?

http://filext.com/detaillist.php?extdetail=pcm

Richard Crowley wrote:

"PCM" is a fancy marketing-speak TLA (three-letter
acronym) which means "digital" to normal people.

PCM has been around longer than marketing-speak and is a perfectly
legitimate engineering term.

"Mike Rivers" wrote...
Richard Crowley wrote:
"PCM" is a fancy marketing-speak TLA (three-letter
acronym) which means "digital" to normal people.

PCM has been around longer than marketing-speak and
is a perfectly legitimate engineering term.

"PCM" originated at Bell Labs where digitizaton of audio
was first exploited. "Pulse-Code Modulation" was the
(new at the time) method of transmitting audio by sending
digital samples of the waveform. We agree that it started
out as a perfectly legitimate engineering term.

However, I continue to maintain that MODERN usage of
"PCM" is indistinguishable from the common word "digital".

I believe that a Google Groups archival search will reveal
that every time it comes up here, it is in the context of
something like this OP's problem where it merely confuses
the issue of what kind of file he is actually dealing with.

PCM is the method of converting analog voltage to a binary number.

No, it is only one type of such a conversion. And not all digital is binary.
Most forms aren't.

Are we going to go into this again? I hope not.

However, I continue to maintain that MODERN usage of
"PCM" is indistinguishable from the common word "digital".

If only because it's the most-common format. Some formats -- such as dbx 700
and SACD DSD -- are not PCM (except in the broadest sense of "pulse-code").

Richard Crowley wrote:

We agree that it started
out as a perfectly legitimate engineering term.

However, I continue to maintain that MODERN usage of
"PCM" is indistinguishable from the common word "digital".

Yeah, I guess this will need to go into the Contemporary Lexicon of
Technical Terminology Misuse.

PCM - (1) Any digital audio storage format that isn't MP3. (2) CD
quality.

PCM files have no header and are uncompressed . Wav files can contain PCM
data but they are RIFF files with specific header/packet construct.
"itemyar" wrote in message
...
What is the difference? I have trouble opening PCM files with various
audio
programs!

Thanks all!

Ray

Richard Crowley wrote:



At some level, ALL audio files are "PCM". You need more detailed


DSD?

Richard Crowley wrote:


However, I continue to maintain that MODERN usage of "PCM" is
indistinguishable from the common word "digital".

You continue to maintain?

Digital means PCM?

"Dr. Dolittle" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
At some level, ALL audio files are "PCM". You need
more detailed

DSD?

More marketing-speak. A newly-minted, fancy TLA for
what had a perfectly find technical name/description,
"1-bit sigma-delta encoding". It has been around for many
years before the DSD name was stuck on it.

Seems like more evidence that "PCM" has no fixed,
generally-accepted definition anymore.

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
We agree that it started
out as a perfectly legitimate engineering term.

However, I continue to maintain that MODERN usage of
"PCM" is indistinguishable from the common word "digital".

Yeah, I guess this will need to go into the Contemporary Lexicon of
Technical Terminology Misuse.

PCM - (1) Any digital audio storage format that isn't MP3. (2) CD
quality.

http://www.google.com/search?num=20&... q=define:PCM

Pulse code modulation -- a standard method of encoding analog audio
signals in digital form.
www.digitalhymnal.org/glossary_m-z.html

Pulse Code Modulation. A method of encoding an audio signal in digital
format.
www.56k.com/glossary.shtml

Pulse Coded Modulation. Transmission of analog information in digital
form through sampling and encoding the samples with a fixed number of
bits.
www.cxrlarus.com/assets/glossary.html

PCM stands for Pulse Code Modulation. This is a digital process for
encoding signals.
www.songstuff.com/glossary/P

Pulse Code Modulation, the most common method of encoding an analogue
audio signal into a digital bit stream.
http://www.multimediadirector.com/he...lossary_op.htm

Pulse Code Modulation. A widely used method of converting analogue
telephony signals into digital form.
www.scottygroup.com/glossary

A scheme by which an analog signal is sampled and converted to a digital
signal for transmission.
connectors.tycoelectronics.com/glossary/glossary-p.stm

ad nauseum....

"itemyar" writes:

What is the difference? I have trouble opening PCM files with various audio
programs!

Sound can be encoded in different formats. A few formats would be:
PCM, ADPCM, MP3, Ogg Vorbis, AMR-WB, etc. A .wav file can contain any
of these formats, but your software application(s) may only be able to
read certain formats.

"PCM" is the most basic format for the .wav file. PCM (pulse code
modulation) is time-quantized, amplitude-quantized, multi-bit digital
audio (e.g., 16-bit stereo samples, 44.1 kHz sample rate). Other
formats need to be "decoded" into PCM before you can play them on your
standard soundcard, and that is precisely where any specific audio
software application may come up short, i.e., it may not support all
formats possible in a .wav file.

You might give the free, open-source audio analysis tool "Audacity"
a try on the WAV file in question (PS: call them WAV files, not
PCM files):

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
--
% Randy Yates % "Remember the good old 1980's, when
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % things were so uncomplicated?"
%%% 919-577-9882 % 'Ticket To The Moon'
%%%% % *Time*, Electric Light Orchestra
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

Richard Crowley wrote:

Pulse code modulation -- a standard method of encoding analog audio
signals in digital form.

.. . . . .

ad nauseum....

None of which probably means anything to the original poster. Fun,
though.

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
"Dr. Dolittle" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
At some level, ALL audio files are "PCM". You need
more detailed

DSD?

More marketing-speak. A newly-minted, fancy TLA for
what had a perfectly find technical name/description,
"1-bit sigma-delta encoding". It has been around for many
years before the DSD name was stuck on it.

Seems like more evidence that "PCM" has no fixed,
generally-accepted definition anymore.

It does with me. I can't help it if others misuse it.

- Gary Rosen

"Gary Rosen" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote ...
Seems like more evidence that "PCM" has no fixed,
generally-accepted definition anymore.

It does with me. I can't help it if others misuse it.

That's exactly the problem. In just the Google definition
page you will find several conflicting "definitions".

Current (mis-)use has rendered it practically meaningless
and even outright confusing to many users. This is not the
first (or even 10th) time someone has come here confused
about what "PCM" means.

"Richard Crowley" writes:

"Gary Rosen" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote ...
Seems like more evidence that "PCM" has no fixed,
generally-accepted definition anymore.
It does with me. I can't help it if others misuse it.

That's exactly the problem. In just the Google definition
page you will find several conflicting "definitions".

The "net" is not the authority in this or almost any other
matter.

Current (mis-)use has rendered it practically meaningless
and even outright confusing to many users. This is not the
first (or even 10th) time someone has come here confused
about what "PCM" means.

An authoritative source is [jayant], which states

A PCM coder is nothing more than a waveform sampler
followed by an amplitude quantizer.

In other words, it is a time- and amplitude-quantized
signal. Time-quantized means the signal is discrete-time;
amplitude-quantized means the signal contains a finite
number of levels, usually represented by a set of N
bits.

--Randy Yates

@BOOK{jayant,
title = "{Digital Coding Of Waveforms}",
author = "{N.S.~Jayant, Peter~Noll}",
publisher = "Prentice Hall",
year = "1984"}
--
% Randy Yates % "Rollin' and riding and slippin' and
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % sliding, it's magic."
%%% 919-577-9882 %
%%%% % 'Living' Thing', *A New World Record*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
itemyar wrote:
What is the difference? I have trouble opening PCM files with
various audio programs!

PCM is the method of converting analog voltage to a binary number.

"PCM" is a fancy marketing-speak TLA (three-letter acronym) which means
"digital" to normal people.

That's just wrong. The acronym for Pulse Code Modulation came out of
the DSP community long before it had any influence on the "normal"
people market. It's a technical classification, not marketing-speak.


At some level, ALL audio files are "PCM". You need more detailed
information about the file than just "PCM".

That's just wrong. DSD is not PCM nor is MP3 or most other compressed
modes. That you can transform one to the other doesn't make them all
PCM. E.g. you can also transform analog to PCM and back.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."

A. Einstein

"Randy Yates" wrote ...
An authoritative source is [jayant], which states

A PCM coder is nothing more than a waveform sampler
followed by an amplitude quantizer.

In other words, it is a time- and amplitude-quantized
signal. Time-quantized means the signal is discrete-time;
amplitude-quantized means the signal contains a finite
number of levels, usually represented by a set of N
bits.

And that definition applies to every kind of digital
audio format, including the compressed ones.
Taking us back around the circle to my original
point that "PCM" synonymous with "digital".

"Bob Cain" wrote ...
That's just wrong.....
That's just wrong......

You are just demonstrating my allegation that "PCM"
has become useless and even actively confusing as a
description of a file format or codec.

"Richard Crowley" writes:

"Randy Yates" wrote ...
An authoritative source is [jayant], which states
A PCM coder is nothing more than a waveform sampler
followed by an amplitude quantizer.
In other words, it is a time- and amplitude-quantized
signal. Time-quantized means the signal is discrete-time;
amplitude-quantized means the signal contains a finite
number of levels, usually represented by a set of N
bits.

And that definition applies to every kind of digital
audio format, including the compressed ones.

Not true. For example, DSD is not a simple amplitude-quantized
signal.

Taking us back around the circle to my original
point that "PCM" synonymous with "digital".

I'm sorry you're confused, but the meaning and the definitions are
clear. It might help if you go to the library, check out some books,
and read up on the subjects of quantization and sampling.
--
% Randy Yates % "How's life on earth?
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % ... What is it worth?"
%%% 919-577-9882 % 'Mission (A World Record)',
%%%% % *A New World Record*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Bob Cain" wrote ...
That's just wrong.....
That's just wrong......

You are just demonstrating my allegation that "PCM"
has become useless and even actively confusing as a
description of a file format or codec.

Own your own confusion; don't presume others share it.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."

A. Einstein

"Bob Cain" wrote ...
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Bob Cain" wrote ...
That's just wrong.....
That's just wrong......

You are just demonstrating my allegation that "PCM"
has become useless and even actively confusing as a
description of a file format or codec.

Own your own confusion; don't presume others share it.

This very thread (and dozens like it) exist because
others share it.

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
"Mike Rivers" wrote...
Richard Crowley wrote:
"PCM" is a fancy marketing-speak TLA (three-letter
acronym) which means "digital" to normal people.

PCM has been around longer than marketing-speak and is a perfectly
legitimate engineering term.

"PCM" originated at Bell Labs where digitizaton of audio was first
exploited. "Pulse-Code Modulation" was the (new at the time) method of
transmitting audio by sending digital samples of the waveform. We agree
that it started
out as a perfectly legitimate engineering term.

However, I continue to maintain that MODERN usage of "PCM" is
indistinguishable from the common word "digital".

Not exactly. The think that makes PCM distinct is that the pulses have
different meaning.

Here's an orthodox view of the classical terminology that defines some
relevant terms:

http://www.co.umist.ac.uk/misc/ct211...M_Site/why.htm

Richard Crowley wrote:

Own your own confusion; don't presume others share it.


This very thread (and dozens like it) exist because
others share it.

No, they may be confused, but they don't share YOUR confusion.

I think Mike nailed the definition of PCM and WAV. Explanation makes
perfect sense for those who want an accurate technical meaning of what the
terms mean.

--

"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...
"Mike Rivers" wrote...
Richard Crowley wrote:
"PCM" is a fancy marketing-speak TLA (three-letter
acronym) which means "digital" to normal people.

PCM has been around longer than marketing-speak and is a perfectly
legitimate engineering term.

"PCM" originated at Bell Labs where digitizaton of audio was first
exploited. "Pulse-Code Modulation" was the (new at the time) method of
transmitting audio by sending digital samples of the waveform. We agree
that it started
out as a perfectly legitimate engineering term.

However, I continue to maintain that MODERN usage of "PCM" is
indistinguishable from the common word "digital".
I believe that a Google Groups archival search will reveal
that every time it comes up here, it is in the context of something like
this OP's problem where it merely confuses the issue of what kind of file
he is actually dealing with.

bixby wrote:
I think Mike nailed the definition of PCM and WAV. Explanation makes
perfect sense for those who want an accurate technical meaning of what the
terms mean.

Except that someone correctly corrected me that the code isn't always
binary. But it is always a digital representation of an analog
parameter.