[scott]

Scott Dorsey ha scritto:
scott sk2233ks@gmail,com wrote:

My budget is wide open... It's more important to get the best for my
purposes. the battery powered phantom supply box kills the portability so
no... on that one. That's why the battery powered mic is so attractive to
me.


The problem is that you're mostly stuck with junk mikes if you don't use
phantom power. In the good to great range, you have the Sanken single point
stereo mikes, the M-S pairs from Schoeps and Sennheiser, etc.

If it were me and I had a good budget, I'd pick the Schoeps M-S pair and
a Roycote mount and windscreen. And I would use a battery powered phantom
box like the Samson and just clip it to the boom.


I'm going to also get the Sound Devices 722 (or 744)... for really
serious recording... So the D1 will serve the purpose of being on me all
the
time... like a cell phone. (from the 80's... lol) So portability is
paramount... but that doesn't mean I need a small mic necessarily... just
not a big ol phantom power box. It's kind of a lot carrying around the D1
with a mic to begin with... add to that another thing and it seems likt it
starts getting kind of quirky to work with.

Sure, but with the phantom box you can now use the same mikes that you use
with the Sound Devices and you aren't stuck with junky stuff like the VP-88.

But you can do worse than the Sony or the VP-88... both are a little weird
off-center and are kind of noisy but are still usable for loud sources.

I don't necessarily need the m/s stereo mic with onboard decoding... though
I
do like the option with the swivel head offering the choise between
directional or ambient. Though I don't necessarily have to have that. I
just
want the best mic for my purpose which is to pick up nature sounds... so it
does seem like I might have a need for that switchable action between
direct
and ambiant recording in different settings... that's my thinking there...

Of coarse I also need a mic that can handle the fullest gammot of
frequencies
that mother nature has to offer.

For nature recording, forget ANY of that stuff and go with the Sennheiser
MKH series mikes. In fact, I'd suggest maybe even doing the MKH-20 pair
with a baffle or wide spacing instead of a single point stereo mike. You
will find the noise floor is more important than anything else in that
application.

Also the MKH-20 doesn't die in humid environments like most condenser mikes
will do.

That's a really good question about the D1's ability to even record low
end...
Specs show it takes 20 Hz... So I just assumed it would. I'm not
familiar
with the technique of padding a line in order to test low frequency
response... but I do have bass mics in my home studio though that I can
plug
into it. I haven't bought the D1 yet though...

I would suggest skipping it, then, and consider getting something with
phantom power, then.

and here too... My research has shown there are no other handheld's that
match the quality of the D1. There's not even a competitor on that level
of
quality that I've found... Does anyone know of a better "handheld"
recorder?
I'm speaking only of quality recordings... not features.

The Zoom is not horrible. Likewise the mid-sized Korg is not horrible.

Really, considering that you have noisy digital stuff spewing RFI jammed
right up against high gain analogue stuff, and you're expecting the analogue
stuff to run off of a couple AA batteries instead of a nice stiff 48V
supply,
it's really a wonder any of these small recorders work at all. Think of
them
as waltzing bears.

I'm also assuming (based only on my research) that the 722 is the best of
the
lot for its type of unit.

I rather like the Nagra digital boxes more than the 722, but the 722 is
entirely respectable.
--scott

Thank you all so very much for you responses and welcoming me to your family
of knowledge… I have found it invaluable and have looked into all the
equipment you all have mentioned.

I think I’m sold on phantom power and the MKH20. However, the bulk of the
PCM-D1 with a power box equals close to the bulk of the Sound Devices 722…
Would I be going crazy to let my mind wander on the idea of mounting an MKH20
to the Sound Devices 722? Or would there be better options for doing this?…
I would mount it with a quick release… so I have the option of separation
from the 722 as well. Or should I consider an x/y set of cardiods? So this
would effectively create a 722 with built in mics… and also be able to
separate them.

I wish to be able to pick up nature sounds… of coarse with the high and mid
clarity… but also to be able to pick up, say, the roar of a waterfall or
river… or a glacier breaking off… or a deep guttural chanting… of coarse
wales too …lol. etc… I just don’t want to be limited (if I can help it) on
taking in those lower end frequencies.

I’ll be also recording myself babbling at lectures… (with the 722) for
professional distribution… Do you think the MKH20 could also be a “room mic”
as well? … like to pick up audience questions n laughing… etc. hall sizes
vary from 70 people to 500 people so something that can handle both situations
would be ideal.

What mic would you recommend for the lecturer himself? I don’t like holding a
mic or standing in front of it… in my face… I prefer something that can
record quality from a bit of a distance. I’m also open to the “brick on head”
treatment from my fellow bloggers if I need to just get used to talking
directly into a mic… lol but if it’s avoidable… that’s ideal.

And thanx again for all of your help

Sincerely,
Scott


--

[scott]

Soundhaspriority ha scritto:

"scott" sk2233ks@gmail,com wrote in message
,it ...

I think I'm sold on phantom power and the MKH20. However, the bulk of the
PCM-D1 with a power box equals close to the bulk of the Sound Devices 722.
Would I be going crazy to let my mind wander on the idea of mounting an
MKH20
to the Sound Devices 722?

The Sound Devices 722 has a hard disk. So you absolutely do not want to
mount a mike to it. The disk is not very audible to the ear, but providing a

conduction path to a mike is a bad thing. I do not know of any form of mount

that would work this way. The result would be some level of contamination
with the sound of a hard disk, which contains constant-frequency components
that are eerily audible, and obviously visible on a waveform display. You'd
lose all the benefit of premium equipment, and end up back in
camcorder-land.

Thank you for that tip bro. The 722 can also record to its flash drive...
Assuming that I can back off a couple of pre-existing screws and insert a
bracket to hold some mics... do you think there would still be a conflict
there? When I use the internal hard drive... then I can just remove the mics
that are attached.

Or would there be better options for doing this?.
I would mount it with a quick release. so I have the option of separation
from the 722 as well. Or should I consider an x/y set of cardiods? So
this
would effectively create a 722 with built in mics. and also be able to
separate them.

The 722 fits in a large belt pack, such as the theft-resistant
http :// www .pacsafe,com /www /index.php?_room=3&_action=detail&id=54


Thanx for the tip on this bag... very cool.


I wish to be able to pick up nature sounds. of coarse with the high and
mid
clarity. but also to be able to pick up, say, the roar of a waterfall or
river. or a glacier breaking off. or a deep guttural chanting. of
coarse
wales too .lol. etc. I just don't want to be limited (if I can help it)
on
taking in those lower end frequencies.

It has been noted that the PCM-D50 mikes (and by extension, probably the
PCM-D1 mikes) are extremely quiet, far quieter than any other electrets save

the DPA (Danish Pro Audio) stuff. The PCM-D50 mikes are not particularly
good sounding, nor do they have great bass, but they are the only "gadget"
mikes I know of that can really do nature work.

Yes the bass sound is the main issue with the PCM-D1...

I'll be also recording myself babbling at lectures. (with the 722) for
professional distribution. Do you think the MKH20 could also be a "room
mic"
as well? . like to pick up audience questions n laughing. etc. hall
sizes
vary from 70 people to 500 people so something that can handle both
situations
would be ideal.

The infrasonics would the presentation in interesting ways. Such use does
not conform to professional practice.

What mic would you recommend for the lecturer himself? I don't like
holding a
mic or standing in front of it. in my face. I prefer something that can
record quality from a bit of a distance. I'm also open to the "brick on
head"
treatment from my fellow bloggers if I need to just get used to talking
directly into a mic. lol but if it's avoidable. that's ideal.

You need to train yourself. Technology cannot provide the solution here.
Mike technique actually more important than the mike itself.

Thanx for that "brick to head..." Point taken. I have a lot of experience
recording rock group type of situations. so I am expanding into new territory
with this stuff. I just want to make sure the equipment is up to the job... I
do have things to learn... but I want to learn them with the best equipment.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511




--

[Fran Guidry]

On Nov 15, 10:12*am, "Soundhaspriority" wrote:
"scott" wrote in message

...



I think I'm sold on phantom power and the MKH20. *However, the bulk of the
PCM-D1 with a power box equals close to the bulk of the Sound Devices 722.
Would I be going crazy to let my mind wander on the idea of mounting an
MKH20
to the Sound Devices 722?

The Sound Devices 722 has a hard disk. So you absolutely do not want to
mount a mike to it. The disk is not very audible to the ear, but providing a
conduction path to a mike is a bad thing. I do not know of any form of mount
that would work this way. The result would be some level of contamination
with the sound of a hard disk, which contains constant-frequency components
that are eerily audible, and obviously visible on a waveform display. You'd
lose all the benefit of premium equipment, and end up back in
camcorder-land.

*Or would there be better options for doing this?. I would mount it with a quick release. *so I have the option of separation
from the 722 as well. *Or should I consider an x/y set of cardiods? *So
this
would effectively create a 722 with built in mics. *and also be able to
separate them.

The 722 fits in a large belt pack, such as the theft-resistanthttp://www.pacsafe.com/www/index.php?_room=3&_action=detail&id=54

I wish to be able to pick up nature sounds. *of coarse with the high and
mid
clarity. but also to be able to pick up, say, the roar of a waterfall or
river. *or a glacier breaking off. *or a deep guttural chanting. *of
coarse
wales too .lol. *etc. *I just don't want to be limited (if I can help it)
on
taking in those lower end frequencies.

It has been noted that the PCM-D50 mikes (and by extension, probably the
PCM-D1 mikes) are extremely quiet, far quieter than any other electrets save
the DPA (Danish Pro Audio) stuff. * The PCM-D50 mikes are not particularly
good sounding, nor do they have great bass, but they are the only "gadget"
mikes I know of that can really do nature work.

I'll be also recording myself babbling at lectures. *(with the 722) for
professional distribution. *Do you think the MKH20 could also be a "room
mic"
as well? *. like to pick up audience questions n laughing. etc. *hall
sizes
vary from 70 people to 500 people so something that can handle both
situations
would be ideal.

The infrasonics would the presentation in interesting ways. Such use does
not conform to professional practice.

What mic would you recommend for the lecturer himself? *I don't like
holding a
mic or standing in front of it. in my face. *I prefer something that can
record quality from a bit of a distance. *I'm also open to the "brick on
head"
treatment from my fellow bloggers if I need to just get used to talking
directly into a mic. lol *but if it's avoidable. *that's ideal.

You need to train yourself. Technology cannot provide the solution here.
Mike technique actually more important than the mike itself.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

Not commenting on the overall concept, but you'd probably want a 702
vice 722. Save money and avoid the hard disk issues.

Fran

[Scott Dorsey]

scott wrote:

I wish to be able to pick up nature sounds… of coarse with the high and mid
clarity… but also to be able to pick up, say, the roar of a waterfall or
river… or a glacier breaking off… or a deep guttural chanting… of coarse
wales too …lol. etc… I just don’t want to be limited (if I can help it) on
taking in those lower end frequencies.

Your problem at the high end of the market isn't frequency response, but the
noise floor.

I’ll be also recording myself babbling at lectures… (with the 722) for
professional distribution… Do you think the MKH20 could also be a “room mic”
as well? … like to pick up audience questions n laughing… etc. hall sizes
vary from 70 people to 500 people so something that can handle both situations
would be ideal.

For that I would tend to suggest a lav mike or a hypercardoid on the desk,
depending on the room. A cheap lav mike is fine. A cheap hypercardioid isn't
fine, but lots of folks make good ones including Sennheiser, Schoeps, DPA...

If you are in Europe you might find the AKG C747 for cheap... they are not
very accurate off-axis but they are not bad lectern microphones. They have
a deliberate low-end cut which you will find of benefit for the application.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."