[Chuck Kopsho]

I already own one of these mics. They're the same mics that were used
on game shows like The Price is Right and Match Game. Could anyone
please give me the tech specs for it. Plus could you please tell me
where I may find a users manual for it as well?

Cheers,
Chuck Kopsho
Oceanside, California

[Scott Dorsey]

Chuck Kopsho wrote:
I already own one of these mics. They're the same mics that were used
on game shows like The Price is Right and Match Game. Could anyone
please give me the tech specs for it. Plus could you please tell me
where I may find a users manual for it as well?

If this is the telescoping wand mike, it came out in 1972 or so, and
it's basically the same as the ECM-50 lavalier with a handle. This was
the first back-electret capsule design to make it commercially, even
before the SM-81.

It's an omni. It's noisy. I forget what the integral FET is. It's
actually pretty omni and not really very beamy at all. It pops like
hell.

What other specs do you want? Sony Broadcast probably has a datasheet
online somewhere. The ECM-50 was one of the most popular lavs of all
time, and after more than 40 years you still see them used today.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, November 7, 2009 6:31:14 PM UTC-8, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Chuck Kopsho wrote:
I already own one of these mics. They're the same mics that were used
on game shows like The Price is Right and Match Game. Could anyone
please give me the tech specs for it. Plus could you please tell me
where I may find a users manual for it as well?

If this is the telescoping wand mike, it came out in 1972 or so, and
it's basically the same as the ECM-50 lavalier with a handle. This was
the first back-electret capsule design to make it commercially, even
before the SM-81.


It's an omni. It's noisy. I forget what the integral FET is. It's
actually pretty omni and not really very beamy at all. It pops like
hell.

What other specs do you want? Sony Broadcast probably has a datasheet
online somewhere. The ECM-50 was one of the most popular lavs of all
time, and after more than 40 years you still see them used today.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I've googled the engineering sheet, but no such luck on my end. I'll keep searching.

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
On Saturday, November 7, 2009 6:31:14 PM UTC-8, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Chuck Kopsho wrote:
I already own one of these mics. They're the same mics that were used
on game shows like The Price is Right and Match Game. Could anyone
please give me the tech specs for it. Plus could you please tell me
where I may find a users manual for it as well?

If this is the telescoping wand mike, it came out in 1972 or so, and
it's basically the same as the ECM-50 lavalier with a handle. This was
the first back-electret capsule design to make it commercially, even
before the SM-81.


It's an omni. It's noisy. I forget what the integral FET is. It's
actually pretty omni and not really very beamy at all. It pops like
hell.

What other specs do you want? Sony Broadcast probably has a datasheet
online somewhere. The ECM-50 was one of the most popular lavs of all
time, and after more than 40 years you still see them used today.

I've googled the engineering sheet, but no such luck on my end. I'll keep searching.

What, for the ECM-50? Here is the datasheet for the improved version (the
one that doesn't take unobtainable mercury batteries):

http://www.coutant.org/sonyscan/ecm-50ps.pdf

The ECM-51 is just one of those with a swanky tube attached to it.

Mind you, don't believe the response plot on the thing... the real response
is ragged as hell and changes as you move off-axis. By modern standards they
are just godawful microphones... by the standards of the day when the
RCA BK-6 and EV 637 were considered concealable microphones, they were a
miracle.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, November 7, 2009 6:31:14 PM UTC-8, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Chuck Kopsho wrote:
I already own one of these mics. They're the same mics that were
used on game shows like The Price is Right and Match Game. Could
anyone please give me the tech specs for it. Plus could you please
tell me where I may find a users manual for it as well?
[snip]

Mind you, don't believe the response plot on the thing... the real
response is ragged as hell and changes as you move off-axis. By modern
standards they are just godawful microphones... by the standards of the
day when the RCA BK-6 and EV 637 were considered concealable microphones,
they were a miracle.
--scott

I'll second what Scott said, except for the "godawful" part. They weren't
THAT bad! In 1970 I used ECM-50s affixed to the violins in the orchestra
of the "This is Tom Jones" concert segments. They were passively combined
and entered the board on a single input. The result was great!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rgLd6A0DWM I have several, and most of the
accessories if anyone is interested.

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[axolotl]

On 9/25/2013 11:55 AM, Roy W. Rising wrote:
In 1970 I used ECM-50s affixed to the violins in the orchestra
of the "This is Tom Jones" concert segments. They were passively combined
and entered the board on a single input. The result was great!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rgLd6A0DWM I have several, and most of the
accessories if anyone is interested.


Roy,

Would you be kind enough to tell us a little about the equipment and
process? Were you synced up to multi-track, or mixing straight to mono?

Thanks,

Kevin Gallimore

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

axolotl wrote:
On 9/25/2013 11:55 AM, Roy W. Rising wrote:
In 1970 I used ECM-50s affixed to the violins in the orchestra
of the "This is Tom Jones" concert segments. They were passively
combined and entered the board on a single input. The result was
great! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rgLd6A0DWM I have several, and
most of the accessories if anyone is interested.


Roy,

Would you be kind enough to tell us a little about the equipment and
process? Were you synced up to multi-track, or mixing straight to mono?

Thanks,

Kevin Gallimore

Thanks for your interest. In 1970 there was very little multi-track
sync-up. This was a live mix straight to mono videotape. I recorded a
quarter-inch mono copy. For reasons beyond my understanding, someone
imposed the recording of a 4-track copy for lay-back if needed. I have
those tapes, they never were used.

Mixing was done on a master production console custom-built by McCurdy
Radio of Canada. It had three 10x4 premix groups and 18 submix channels
feeding three master channels that combined to the mono output. There was
EQ only on the submix channels. I think the videotape machines still were
steam-powered. ;-)

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Scott Dorsey]

Roy W. Rising wrote:
Thanks for your interest. In 1970 there was very little multi-track
sync-up. This was a live mix straight to mono videotape. I recorded a
quarter-inch mono copy. For reasons beyond my understanding, someone
imposed the recording of a 4-track copy for lay-back if needed. I have
those tapes, they never were used.

I remember being told that the first actual synchronized multitrack stuff
for television was done by Austin City Limits. I'm not sure how true that
really is.

Mixing was done on a master production console custom-built by McCurdy
Radio of Canada. It had three 10x4 premix groups and 18 submix channels
feeding three master channels that combined to the mono output. There was
EQ only on the submix channels. I think the videotape machines still were
steam-powered. ;-)

It's amazing how 1970s audio gear is now considered valuable vintage
equipment, while you can't give away 1970s video gear.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Frank Stearns]

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

Roy W. Rising wrote:
Thanks for your interest. In 1970 there was very little multi-track
sync-up. This was a live mix straight to mono videotape. I recorded a
quarter-inch mono copy. For reasons beyond my understanding, someone
imposed the recording of a 4-track copy for lay-back if needed. I have
those tapes, they never were used.

Roy, how did you allocate those 4 tracks?

I remember being told that the first actual synchronized multitrack stuff
for television was done by Austin City Limits. I'm not sure how true that
really is.

Ed Greene was in that vanguard; maybe the folks at Complete Post in Hollywood have a
little more history...? But his was multi-mic on multi-track; lots of 6 and 8
channel mixers funneled into a 16- or 24- input console, with each sub (presumably)
fed to a multitrack channel.

But then a lot of the award and and national event shows (done on location) that Ed
specialized in were not live to tape, but live to air. No second chances! Much of
that probably should not have sounded good, but it usually did, in spite of what the
local downstream folks tried to do to it -- it's a testament to his ear.

He and Roy set high pretty high bars.


Mixing was done on a master production console custom-built by McCurdy
Radio of Canada. It had three 10x4 premix groups and 18 submix channels
feeding three master channels that combined to the mono output. There was
EQ only on the submix channels. I think the videotape machines still were
steam-powered. ;-)

I dabbled in video when the recorders were still steam powered, but I think by then
they'd moved from peat and coal to perhaps natural gas to fire the boilers. w

Gotta love those old AVR1 2, and 3 high-band quad machines -- base price around
$100,000 each in 1970 dollars, IIRC. The "afterthought*" audio tracks, at 15ips,
were spec'd at 50-10Khz, +/- 2 dB. (Video tape formulations where not ideal for
audio, and the tracks were pretty narrow. You got two if you were lucky.) An
MM1000-16 was probably around $35K or so. (Someone please correct me if needed.)

* - As a young audio guy, I got the repeated impression each time I worked
a tv gig that the video people of that era really found audio to be an annoyance,
and would have done without it if they could have gotten away with it.


It's amazing how 1970s audio gear is now considered valuable vintage
equipment, while you can't give away 1970s video gear.

It's probably a combination of specialized knowledge, impossible parts (stuff
decades off the shelf that's hard to make), and a lack of romance.

Comparatively, with audio, there's less of the first two needed and way more of the
third already in play to keep things moving along.

Not only that, but as we know there can be a lot of vague, subjective aspects to
audio (which is ripe for the "Emperor's New Cloths" syndrome).

Compare that to video, where someone can look at a quad playback on a good NTSC
monitor, and then glance over at broadcast HDTV on the flatpanel and go, "wow,
the picture on that fat, heavy, small square box seems kinda milky and fuzzy
compared to the sleek, wide-screen job." (Should we call NTSC an "analog warm"
picture??)

And who makes 2" video tape anymore?

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[axolotl]

On 9/27/2013 11:09 AM, Roy W. Rising wrote:
axolotl wrote:
On 9/25/2013 11:55 AM, Roy W. Rising wrote:
In 1970 I used ECM-50s affixed to the violins in the orchestra
of the "This is Tom Jones" concert segments. They were passively
combined and entered the board on a single input. The result was
great! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rgLd6A0DWM I have several, and
most of the accessories if anyone is interested.


Roy,

Would you be kind enough to tell us a little about the equipment and
process? Were you synced up to multi-track, or mixing straight to mono?

Thanks,

Kevin Gallimore

Thanks for your interest. In 1970 there was very little multi-track
sync-up. This was a live mix straight to mono videotape. I recorded a
quarter-inch mono copy. For reasons beyond my understanding, someone
imposed the recording of a 4-track copy for lay-back if needed. I have
those tapes, they never were used.

Mixing was done on a master production console custom-built by McCurdy
Radio of Canada. It had three 10x4 premix groups and 18 submix channels
feeding three master channels that combined to the mono output. There was
EQ only on the submix channels. I think the videotape machines still were
steam-powered. ;-)


In that you had one chance to get it right, what kind of rehearsal time
did you have? Were you asked about the musician placement? As a related
question, how did you keep the cymbal splash out of everything else?

Unrelated question: Are those your RE16s in the Janis Joplin/FTB segment?

Thanks,

Kevin Gallimore

[Roy W. Rising[_2_]]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
[snip]
I remember being told that the first actual synchronized multitrack stuff
for television was done by Austin City Limits. I'm not sure how true
that really is.

I think ACL began sometime in '72. I don't know when/if the show used
double-system audio. When the 1969 "The Music Scene" folded, ABC's VP of
Prime Time Programs said "There will be another show". I answered "Yes.
It will be not us bringing R&R to TV, but TV going to R&R Concerts. While
we're at it, let's broadcast it in stereo on our owned and operated FM
stations" and let's call it "In Concert With ... [Name or Group]". ABC's
"In Concert" began in November 1972. It was recorded to 8-track, sync'd
audio was shipped to the FM stations in stereo by way of a sync'd ATR.

--scott

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Marc Wielage[_2_]]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 08:32:43 -0700, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article ):

I remember being told that the first actual synchronized multitrack stuff
for television was done by Austin City Limits. I'm not sure how true that
really is.
------------------------------snip------------------------------

I seem to recall some Perry Como and Frank Sinatra NBC-TV specials in the
1960s being mixed to 35mm 3-track mag, so "technically" that's sort of
multitrack. It wasn't mixed live to mono videotape, that's for sure.

I agree that there is almost no value for old analog video gear. When
Technicolor/Complete Post moved half a block away in 2009, there was a pile
of about 27 analog VTRs and (I'm guessing) 10 miles of analogue video cable
in the parking lot, all hauled off for recycling and landfills. Zero value
in this stuff. They kept a few of the best machines for archival playback,
but for big video facilities, almost all video is now digital on CAT-5 and
CAT-6 ethernet cable.

The ECM-51 mic was very popular in this era (1971-1980), particularly on game
shows. We called it the "Bob Barker 'Price is Right' mic" for a long time.
It was a nightmare when those batteries failed on-air. Eventually, Sony came
out with a phantom-powered version which ended that problem, at least in
hardwired situations. It didn't sound great, but it had at least 3K more
high-end response than the (huge) dynamic EV and RCA mics it replaced.

--MFW

[Marc Wielage[_2_]]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:00:18 -0700, Roy W. Rising wrote
(in article ):

ABC's
"In Concert" began in November 1972. It was recorded to 8-track, sync'd
audio was shipped to the FM stations in stereo by way of a sync'd ATR.
------------------------------snip------------------------------

I remember IN CONCERT being notoriously out of sync, at least on the East
coast feeds I saw in 1972-1973. My bet is that it could've been a local
station problem, maybe due to delays from the telephone company and other
problems. But I think most of the viewers were so stoned out of their minds,
nobody cared.

Sound quality was *dynamite* for that era, provided you were listening to a
decent FM station without too much compression.

--MFW

[hank alrich]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

I think ACL began sometime in '72.

1976

I don't know when/if the show used
double-system audio.

David Hough had a Neve board and Studer mutli-track from the gitgo.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

[[email protected]]

On Monday, September 30, 2013 at 9:08:26 AM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:

I think ACL began sometime in '72.

1976

I don't know when/if the show used
double-system audio.

David Hough had a Neve board and Studer mutli-track from the gitgo.

--
shut up and play your guitar * HankAlrich.Com
HankandShaidriMusic.Com
YouTube.Com/WalkinayMusic

Reviving the dead. How long was the total extension on this mic?

[Scott Dorsey]

wrote:
On Monday, September 30, 2013 at 9:08:26 AM UTC-4, hank alrich wrote:
Roy W. Rising wrote:

I think ACL began sometime in '72.

1976

I don't know when/if the show used
double-system audio.

Reviving the dead. How long was the total extension on this mic?

Wow, that's an old thread.

I'd guess about 20 inches from the bottom of the battery case to the bottom
of the ball when completely extended.

Most folks didn't use it fully extended obviously.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."