[Jon Yaeger]

I few years ago I purchased eight silver-foil in oil capacitors from a James
Wilson in the UK, with all of the hype that goes with the alleged qualities
of silver caps.

I had to send quite a bit of money by registered mail to his address in the
U.K.

I received the 8 caps. They were encapsulated in black plastic -- no
markings -- and had epoxy seals at one end. They look a bit like film
canisters, only smaller . . .

I installed four of them in an amp and ended up taking them out. The output
tubes were wrongly biased with them in place, and the amp didn't sound good
either.

I subsequently measured all eight at 400 VDC (they were rated at 600V) and
leakages from 12 mA to 25 mA were typical for all of them.

Jon

[The Phantom]

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:32:24 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

I few years ago I purchased eight silver-foil in oil capacitors from a James
Wilson in the UK, with all of the hype that goes with the alleged qualities
of silver caps.

I had to send quite a bit of money by registered mail to his address in the
U.K.

I received the 8 caps. They were encapsulated in black plastic -- no
markings -- and had epoxy seals at one end. They look a bit like film
canisters, only smaller . . .

I installed four of them in an amp and ended up taking them out. The output
tubes were wrongly biased with them in place, and the amp didn't sound good
either.

I subsequently measured all eight at 400 VDC (they were rated at 600V) and
leakages from 12 mA to 25 mA were typical for all of them.

Jon

You ought to cut one open and see if there's any silver in there.

[Alex]

"The Phantom" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:32:24 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

I few years ago I purchased eight silver-foil in oil capacitors from a
James
Wilson in the UK, with all of the hype that goes with the alleged
qualities
of silver caps.

I had to send quite a bit of money by registered mail to his address in
the
U.K.

I received the 8 caps. They were encapsulated in black plastic -- no
markings -- and had epoxy seals at one end. They look a bit like film
canisters, only smaller . . .

I installed four of them in an amp and ended up taking them out. The
output
tubes were wrongly biased with them in place, and the amp didn't sound
good
either.

I subsequently measured all eight at 400 VDC (they were rated at 600V)
and
leakages from 12 mA to 25 mA were typical for all of them.

Milliamperes or microamperes?

The best capacitors are teflon: no leakage and no dielectric absorbtion,
i.e., the effective capacitance is constant from DC to probably a couple of
megahertz.

I saw Russian caps of that sort (FT-1 and FT-2, 0.1uF/630V) on the e-bay.
Ordered one to test. At all audio frequencies my automatic RLC meter showed
pure capacitance! Only at 100KHz it registered a few milliohms of series
resistance. I was quite amazed and impressed comparing that to a common
humble polyester film cap. And metalised paper looked complete crap in
comparison -- absorbtion is 5 times higher than in polyester.

Regards,
Alex

[Peter Wieck]

On Jun 4, 1:01*am, The Phantom wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:32:24 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:





I few years ago I purchased eight silver-foil in oil capacitors from a James
Wilson in the UK, with all of the hype that goes with the alleged qualities
of silver caps.

I had to send quite a bit of money by registered mail to his address in the
U.K.

I received the 8 caps. *They were encapsulated in black plastic -- no
markings -- and had epoxy seals at one end. *They look a bit like film
canisters, only smaller . . .

I installed four of them in an amp and ended up taking them out. *The output
tubes were wrongly biased with them in place, and the amp didn't sound good
either.

I subsequently measured all eight at 400 VDC (they were rated at 600V) and
leakages from 12 mA to 25 mA were typical for all of them.

Jon

You ought to cut one open and see if there's any silver in there.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sure. The problem with silver is that if there is even the smallest
amount of contaminant - such as the epoxy chemicals as an immediate
example - it 'migrates' all over the place. And as silver is also the
very best room-temperature conductor out there (one would expect that
vapor-deposition silver would have to be very pure or it would not
work properly), only a few molecules of migrated silver would cause
all sorts of havoc.

Aluminum is a much better capacitor material as it forms a tight oxide
coating that prevents both corrosion and migration (except under very
harsh exposure conditions), the only trick is making a secure,
permanent electrical connection to the dielectric films.

Back in the day, capacitors were made (at home) by layering tin (Sn,
not Al) foil between thin pieces of glass. Even then there was too
much sulphur in the air (lots of coal burning) for silver. One book I
read actually suggested mercury instead of metal foils - and went into
details as to how to 'tar' the edges of the layers and cautioned that
an iron-foil electrode had to be used so the mercury would not attack
it. Imagine handling that much mercury on your bench today... Maybe
that's why some old-time radioheads are so wifty.

Digression - The Mad Hatter was "mad" because at the time mercury was
used to felt fur for hatmaking. The mercury would cause multiple toxic
symptoms in hatmakers including shakes, mood swings and so forth.

Ah, well. Back to my corner.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Jon Yaeger]

in article , The Phantom at
wrote on 6/4/08 1:01 AM:

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:32:24 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

I few years ago I purchased eight silver-foil in oil capacitors from a James
Wilson in the UK, with all of the hype that goes with the alleged qualities
of silver caps.

I had to send quite a bit of money by registered mail to his address in the
U.K.

I received the 8 caps. They were encapsulated in black plastic -- no
markings -- and had epoxy seals at one end. They look a bit like film
canisters, only smaller . . .

I installed four of them in an amp and ended up taking them out. The output
tubes were wrongly biased with them in place, and the amp didn't sound good
either.

I subsequently measured all eight at 400 VDC (they were rated at 600V) and
leakages from 12 mA to 25 mA were typical for all of them.

Jon

You ought to cut one open and see if there's any silver in there.

I did. I'm trying to remember how to test for silver from my chemistry
days. . . .

[Peter Wieck]

On Jun 4, 9:56*am, Jon Yaeger wrote:
in article , The Phantom at
wrote on 6/4/08 1:01 AM:





On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:32:24 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

I few years ago I purchased eight silver-foil in oil capacitors from a James
Wilson in the UK, with all of the hype that goes with the alleged qualities
of silver caps.

I had to send quite a bit of money by registered mail to his address in the
U.K.

I received the 8 caps. *They were encapsulated in black plastic -- no
markings -- and had epoxy seals at one end. *They look a bit like film
canisters, only smaller . . .

I installed four of them in an amp and ended up taking them out. *The output
tubes were wrongly biased with them in place, and the amp didn't sound good
either.

I subsequently measured all eight at 400 VDC (they were rated at 600V) and
leakages from 12 mA to 25 mA were typical for all of them.

Jon

You ought to cut one open and see if there's any silver in there.

I did. *I'm trying to remember how to test for silver from my chemistry
days. . . .- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Silver foams a cream-color when exposed to nitric acid. Plate or base
metals go green or blue.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[The Phantom]

On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:56:45 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

in article , The Phantom at
wrote on 6/4/08 1:01 AM:

On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:32:24 -0400, Jon Yaeger
wrote:

I few years ago I purchased eight silver-foil in oil capacitors from a James
Wilson in the UK, with all of the hype that goes with the alleged qualities
of silver caps.

I had to send quite a bit of money by registered mail to his address in the
U.K.

I received the 8 caps. They were encapsulated in black plastic -- no
markings -- and had epoxy seals at one end. They look a bit like film
canisters, only smaller . . .

I installed four of them in an amp and ended up taking them out. The output
tubes were wrongly biased with them in place, and the amp didn't sound good
either.

I subsequently measured all eight at 400 VDC (they were rated at 600V) and
leakages from 12 mA to 25 mA were typical for all of them.

Jon

You ought to cut one open and see if there's any silver in there.

I did. I'm trying to remember how to test for silver from my chemistry
days. . . .

Dissolve the suspect foil in some nitric acid; evaporate to dryness;
dissolve the residue in water and add a little hydrochloric acid; silver
will form a white precipitate, aluminum won't.

It might be easier to take a little piece of the suspect foil and put it in
a water solution of sodium hydroxide (lye, obtainable at the grocery
store). If it's aluminum, it will dissolve post haste, evolving bubbles of
hydrogen. If it's silver, it won't be attacked.

[Peter Wieck]

On Jun 4, 4:01*pm, "Soundhaspriority" wrote:

Jon, throw a blob of solder on it. Silver will take it, aluminum will not.

Unless the aluminum was treated to accept solder - which well-it-might-
be considering the application. Also the thickness of the material
might just dissolve or oxidize based on the heat involved. It is a
very, very thin foil under discussion, a fraction of the thickness of
household aluminum foil, and bonded to some non-metallic substrate
such as treated paper, mylar, polyester, even PVC or CPVC or
cellophane film, possibly an exotic such as PTFE or similar.

"Throwing a blob of solder" on such a system is not indicative of much
of anything definitive other than the "thower" has no clue...

Nitric Acid will work with small tiny amounts of material and indicate
positively. Phantom's suggestion of Lye (or even ammonia) has merit
except that as we are discussing vapor-deposition level thicknesses if
silver was actually used, the silver will certainly turn black and
possibly fail just because it is so thin. The ammonia may be slow
enough to indicate yet leave the silver in place. It would strip
aluminum in short order.

If it would be possible to unfurl a significant amount of the film, a
VOM would be useful assuming no silver oxidation. Fine silver is a far
better conductor than aluminum and that difference may be enough to
determine the material. And a blunt probe will make good contact with
silver, it may not penetrate (well) the oxide surface of aluminum.
That is something you can "try at home" if you want.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Arny Krueger]

"Jon Yaeger" wrote in message


I few years ago I purchased eight silver-foil in oil
capacitors from a James Wilson in the UK, with all of the
hype that goes with the alleged qualities of silver caps.

Well, why are you complaining? The only functional advantage of silver-foil
caps is hype, and it appears that you received that for sure. ;-)

[Peter Wieck]

On Jun 4, 3:41*pm, "Soundhaspriority" wrote:
"Peter Wieck" wrote in message

...
On Jun 4, 4:01 pm, "Soundhaspriority" wrote:

Jon, throw a blob of solder on it. Silver will take it, aluminum will not.

[Peter Wieck]

On Jun 4, 10:22*pm, "Soundhaspriority" wrote:
Path:
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User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.4.0.080122
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:13:25 +1000

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

Absolutely. But the buzzard would not be here if you were not. The Yin
and the Yan - neither complete without the other. And at bottom, who
is to say which is which? See "cross posting" and try not to in
future.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Clyde Slick]

On 5 Iun, 08:37, Peter Wieck wrote:
On Jun 4, 10:22*pm, "Soundhaspriority" wrote:

Path:
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User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.4.0.080122
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:13:25 +1000

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

Absolutely. But the buzzard would not be here if you were not. The Yin
and the Yan - neither complete without the other. And at bottom, who
is to say which is which? See "cross posting" and try not to in
future.



what thin brins you to this new style. I lke it! You da kin, da man
with the blin. Your verse got some rin to it, man!