Is getting the pin matches critical for best sound between equipment?

How can you tell which is hot,cold and ground?

Thanks!

First, this is "Basic Pro Audio" 101. Go to www.rane.com, click
"Reference", and then click "Rane Notes". Scroll down to the "Wiring,
Interconnection, and Grounding" section. Look for the third article
entitled "Sound System Interconnection" (RaneNote 110)". Read it, then
all the important things about this aspect of pro audio cabling will be
known to you. I find the diagrams towards the end of the article to be
a very good quick reference for all types of cabling situations.

Best regards,

John Halliburton

On 10/13/05 5:22 PM, in article
, "Michael"
wrote:


Is getting the pin matches critical for best sound between equipment?

It is ALWAYS important for your interconnect cables to be wired the same at
both ends.
PIN-1 to PIN-1
PIN-2 to PIN-2\PIN-3 to PIN-3

Standard pin function is

PIN-1 shield/ground
PIN-2 signal HI
PIN-3 signal LO


How can you tell which is hot,cold and ground?

Ground is always PIN-1
The other 2 pins depend on the equipment as to what's what, you shold check,
but there IS a standard...

The first thing is that any piece of gear SHOULD maintain polarity to all
signals passing through it...
A POSTIVE voltage on input PIN-2
should result in a
POSITIVE voltage on output PIN-2

Ah....I agree - so here's the problem:

My pre-amp has pin 2 "hot" and pin3 "cold".

My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold" and pin 3
"hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for everything.

So - what to do. I'd hate to have to solder up my own cables for the
reasons you cite (pin 2 should always go to pin2....not pin3!), but I
don't see any other way.

I did notice that my pre-amp has a "Phase" button on the front panel ,
but I suspect it inverts the speaker terminals and not the pin wiring on
the XLR inputs.

Anyone face this problem?

SSJVCmag wrote:
On 10/13/05 5:22 PM, in article
, "Michael"
wrote:


Is getting the pin matches critical for best sound between equipment?


It is ALWAYS important for your interconnect cables to be wired the same at
both ends.
PIN-1 to PIN-1
PIN-2 to PIN-2\PIN-3 to PIN-3

Standard pin function is

PIN-1 shield/ground
PIN-2 signal HI
PIN-3 signal LO


How can you tell which is hot,cold and ground?


Ground is always PIN-1
The other 2 pins depend on the equipment as to what's what, you shold check,
but there IS a standard...

The first thing is that any piece of gear SHOULD maintain polarity to all
signals passing through it...
A POSTIVE voltage on input PIN-2
should result in a
POSITIVE voltage on output PIN-2

Michael wrote:

Is getting the pin matches critical for best sound between equipment?

Well, if you want correct polarity, it is.

How can you tell which is hot,cold and ground?

Pin 1 is always ground. The hot pin is always pin 2, unless it's an
Ampex, Altec, or Collins, in which case it's pin 2, or Tascam, in which
case it might be pin 2 or pin 3, or unless it's some other piece of gear
that is pin 3 hot. When in doubt, look in the manual.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:55:21 GMT, Michael
wrote:

My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold" and pin 3
"hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for everything.

Spectral?

Chris Hornbeck

Marantz SA-11s1 to a Krell KCT

Chris Hornbeck wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:55:21 GMT, Michael
wrote:


My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold" and pin 3
"hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for everything.


Spectral?

Chris Hornbeck

SSJVCmag wrote:

On 10/13/05 5:22 PM, in article
, "Michael"
wrote:


Is getting the pin matches critical for best sound between equipment?

It is ALWAYS important for your interconnect cables to be wired the same at
both ends.
PIN-1 to PIN-1
PIN-2 to PIN-2\PIN-3 to PIN-3

Standard pin function is

PIN-1 shield/ground
PIN-2 signal HI
PIN-3 signal LO


How can you tell which is hot,cold and ground?

Ground is always PIN-1
The other 2 pins depend on the equipment as to what's what, you shold check,
but there IS a standard...

The first thing is that any piece of gear SHOULD maintain polarity to all
signals passing through it...
A POSTIVE voltage on input PIN-2
should result in a
POSITIVE voltage on output PIN-2

Hmmmm..... Strictly speaking Pin 1 should normally be connected only to the
screen and not carry any signal so calling it ground is perhaps a little
misleading, although normal practice.


Graham

Michael wrote:

Ah....I agree - so here's the problem:

My pre-amp has pin 2 "hot" and pin3 "cold".

My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold" and pin 3
"hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for everything.

Marantz should be shot ! Pin3 hot hasn't been used by pros for ages and ages.
Trust the hi-fi crowd to screw up.


So - what to do. I'd hate to have to solder up my own cables for the
reasons you cite (pin 2 should always go to pin2....not pin3!), but I
don't see any other way.

That depends whether you consider absolute polarity to be important !

Are you *sure* it's correct everywhere else ?

Even then, many recording are made without regard to polarity issues. Probably
most actually.


I did notice that my pre-amp has a "Phase" button on the front panel ,
but I suspect it inverts the speaker terminals and not the pin wiring on
the XLR inputs.

Press it and see if it sounds different ! It'll acheive the same result as
cross-wiring the XLR lead.

Graham

Chris Hornbeck wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:55:21 GMT, Michael
wrote:

My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold" and pin 3
"hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for everything.

Spectral?

That's not reversed. Pin 3 hot is the _correct_ way that Ampex used.
It's the AES that got things wrong.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 13 Oct 2005 21:59:56 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold" and pin 3
"hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for everything.

Spectral?

That's not reversed. Pin 3 hot is the _correct_ way that Ampex used.
It's the AES that got things wrong.

Arf! "It's people like you wot cause unrest." -Monty Python

(But, yeah, you're right.) No, Mister Hands, Why, why?

Chris Hornbeck

On 10/13/05 5:55 PM, in article
, "Michael"
wrote:

Ah....I agree - so here's the problem:

My pre-amp has pin 2 "hot" and pin3 "cold".

My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold" and pin 3
"hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for everything.

So - what to do. I'd hate to have to solder up my own cables for the
reasons you cite (pin 2 should always go to pin2....not pin3!), but I
don't see any other way.

I did notice that my pre-amp has a "Phase" button on the front panel ,
but I suspect it inverts the speaker terminals and not the pin wiring on
the XLR inputs.


Open the CD player
Rewire the connector...

But first, how do you know they;re reversed?

Pooh Bear wrote:

Michael wrote:



Ah....I agree - so here's the problem:

My pre-amp has pin 2 "hot" and pin3 "cold".

My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold" and pin 3
"hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for everything.



Marantz should be shot ! Pin3 hot hasn't been used by pros for ages and ages.
Trust the hi-fi crowd to screw up.


I guess then you also have to shoot the people at Crest. My FA901 Amp
is pin 3 hot. Actually, on that amp it's a barrier strip not an XLR so
making the switch was easier. I have the unit racked with an eq so I
did the switch on the cable from the eq to the amp.

Yes, and some British gear is that way, old KT stuff, but they
sometimes provided an internal switch for swapping Pin 3 hot over to
Pin 2 hot.

The Rane document is one of the best on sorting this out. Also, the
gain structure papers there are pretty good basic reading too.

Best regards,

John

I spoke with Krell on the phone (great service folks) and they suggested
I not worry about it and just use un-modified XLR cables. They reasoned
that since both left and right channels are switched pin 2 hot for pin 3
hot, the phase change at the speakers won't be detectable since both
speakers are pushing the same way. And who knows how many times the
phase was changed from microphone through mixing to pressing. In other
words, I won't be able to hear it.

.... but in the back of my mind ....

Best regards,

Michael

wrote:
Yes, and some British gear is that way, old KT stuff, but they
sometimes provided an internal switch for swapping Pin 3 hot over to
Pin 2 hot.

The Rane document is one of the best on sorting this out. Also, the
gain structure papers there are pretty good basic reading too.

Best regards,

John

Michael wrote:
I spoke with Krell on the phone (great service folks) and they suggested
I not worry about it and just use un-modified XLR cables. They reasoned
that since both left and right channels are switched pin 2 hot for pin 3
hot, the phase change at the speakers won't be detectable since both
speakers are pushing the same way. And who knows how many times the
phase was changed from microphone through mixing to pressing. In other
words, I won't be able to hear it.

Right, it just changes absolute polarity, not relative polarity.

On the other hand, you can read the Wood Effect... I am sure Clark will
pop up here again....
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

Chris Hornbeck wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:55:21 GMT, Michael
wrote:

My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold"
and pin 3 "hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for
everything.

Spectral?

That's not reversed. Pin 3 hot is the _correct_ way that
Ampex used. It's the AES that got things wrong.
--scott

Shure used to use the same pinout.



--
Bob Quintal

PA is y I've altered my email address.

Greg Taylor wrote:

Pooh Bear wrote:

Michael wrote:



Ah....I agree - so here's the problem:

My pre-amp has pin 2 "hot" and pin3 "cold".

My CD player which I just bought to connect has pin 2 "cold" and pin 3
"hot" - they're reversed. Pin 1 is ground for everything.



Marantz should be shot ! Pin3 hot hasn't been used by pros for ages and ages.
Trust the hi-fi crowd to screw up.


I guess then you also have to shoot the people at Crest. My FA901 Amp
is pin 3 hot. Actually, on that amp it's a barrier strip not an XLR so
making the switch was easier. I have the unit racked with an eq so I
did the switch on the cable from the eq to the amp.

How old is that FA901 ? Pin 3 hot was a standard of sorts ( mainly US gear ) way
back.

Do you mean the input's on a barrier strip *and* XLR btw ?

Graham

Right, it just changes absolute polarity, not relative polarity.


if memory serves correctly, JBL used the black terminal as positive.
this was always fun to remember how my systems were wired when
something fried.....

'standardized' specs are still subject to interpretation.

"Michael" wrote in message
om...

Is getting the pin matches critical for best sound between equipment?

How can you tell which is hot,cold and ground?

Just like with ac mains wiring, it is of no consequence whatever.

geoff

WARNING: Do not try this at home. Geoff loves pyrotechnics and public
electrocutions.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:37:32 +1300, "Geoff@work"
wrote:


"Michael" wrote in message
. com...

Is getting the pin matches critical for best sound between equipment?

How can you tell which is hot,cold and ground?

Just like with ac mains wiring, it is of no consequence whatever.

geoff

Willie K. Yee, MD wrote:

WARNING: Do not try this at home. Geoff loves pyrotechnics and public
electrocutions.

O"Geoff@work" wrote:

"Michael" wrote...

Is getting the pin matches critical for best sound between equipment?

How can you tell which is hot,cold and ground?

Just like with ac mains wiring, it is of no consequence whatever.


Good catch, Willie!!

(Geoff, you're a dangerous man!! g)

--
ha

"hank alrich" wrote in message
. ..
Willie K. Yee, MD wrote:

WARNING: Do not try this at home. Geoff loves pyrotechnics and public
electrocutions.

O"Geoff@work" wrote:

"Michael" wrote...

Is getting the pin matches critical for best sound between equipment?

How can you tell which is hot,cold and ground?

Just like with ac mains wiring, it is of no consequence whatever.


Good catch, Willie!!

(Geoff, you're a dangerous man!! g)


I thought the original poster was jesting ! Sort of.

Like ; " I am designing a PCI card for a computer. Does it matter which
signals go to which connector contacts ?" , but to a slightly lesser degree
....

;-)

geoff

Pooh Bear wrote:

Greg Taylor wrote:



Pooh Bear wrote:

I guess then you also have to shoot the people at Crest. My FA901 Amp
is pin 3 hot. Actually, on that amp it's a barrier strip not an XLR so
making the switch was easier. I have the unit racked with an eq so I
did the switch on the cable from the eq to the amp.



How old is that FA901 ? Pin 3 hot was a standard of sorts ( mainly US gear ) way
back.

Do you mean the input's on a barrier strip *and* XLR btw ?

Graham


I don't know the age of the amp. I bought it used. It has both barrier
strip and XLR. The back panel lists pin 3 hot (cheers to Crest for
putting that info right on the unit). I obviously used the barrier
strip for the connection to the eq.