Someone told me to place the tweeters as close as possible to the
midbass/woofer. In my case that would be the kick panels. Right or
wrong?

Someone said to use the power of HU to power the rear speakers on the
deck. He said at best all I need is fill.

My sub will be in the trunk. There is a place behind the rear seat arm
rest for ski poles. I was thinking of cutting that hole out and letting
the sub sound come through that hole.

About wiring. Should the drivers side left channel be on the same
channel as the passengers rear speaker? Cross phased? Or should they be
side to side as normal?

The focal crossovers I have are 3 way. Should they be set to remove all
the bass from the kick panels and just leave the highs and mids of the
Focals? I have specs on these crossovers if that's needed.

Here's what I'm thinking. 95 BMW 525i. Lanzar Optidrive 200.2 for the
Focal 5.25 and tweets. The focals I have are rated at 160w max @ 4
ohms.
100x2 (rms) should be plenty powerful for them.

Lanzar 100.2 for the Polk gnx10. Run the lanzar bridged to the sub. The
100.2 is rated at 90w rms x2 @ 4ohms so running the lanzar bridged to
the sub gives me 180w to the qlogic box. That sub is rated 175w
continous, 400w max. It's single voice coil.

The Hu will most likely be the Nak-cd 400. I was thinking of running
the rear speakers off the HU. Factory 5.25's for now maybe upgrade
driver later.

Sub ok going through the hole in the rear? Or maybe remove the rear
5/25's all together and let the sound come through the top of the rear
deck as well? I'm thinking midbass would be nice in the rear rather
than just hard air robbing thump.
--
JoeLac
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 04:25:53 GMT, JoeLac
wrote:

Someone told me to place the tweeters as close as possible to the
midbass/woofer. In my case that would be the kick panels. Right or
wrong?

Right. You want them as close to each other as you can. Putting them
in the kickpanels has the added benefit of minimizing the path-length
differences between the speakers and your ears.

Someone said to use the power of HU to power the rear speakers on the
deck. He said at best all I need is fill.

Give it a shot - you can always add an amp later. Add some "Bass
Blockers" (passive high-pass crossovers) to the rear speakers, though.
No need for them to try to play the low notes if you have a sub.


My sub will be in the trunk. There is a place behind the rear seat arm
rest for ski poles. I was thinking of cutting that hole out and letting
the sub sound come through that hole.

Anything that will ventilate the trunk into the passenger compartment
will help. Some of those German sedans are pretty well-sealed. I had
a rear-seat folding armrest in my Jetta with a panel behind it that
could be removed, exposing a 6" x 10" hole into the trunk. Helped
immensely.

About wiring. Should the drivers side left channel be on the same
channel as the passengers rear speaker? Cross phased? Or should they be
side to side as normal?

Not sure what you mean here. Both driver's-side speakers (front and
rear) should be playing the same signal. Likewise with the passenger
side.

The focal crossovers I have are 3 way. Should they be set to remove all
the bass from the kick panels and just leave the highs and mids of the
Focals? I have specs on these crossovers if that's needed.

I'd send everything from 80 or 90 Hz and higher to the component set.
The Optidrive 200.2 has an internal high-pass crossover that's
continously variable from 40 Hz-230 Hz, so this will be easy.

Here's what I'm thinking. 95 BMW 525i. Lanzar Optidrive 200.2 for the
Focal 5.25 and tweets. The focals I have are rated at 160w max @ 4
ohms.
100x2 (rms) should be plenty powerful for them.

Sounds good.


Lanzar 100.2 for the Polk gnx10. Run the lanzar bridged to the sub. The
100.2 is rated at 90w rms x2 @ 4ohms so running the lanzar bridged to
the sub gives me 180w to the qlogic box. That sub is rated 175w
continous, 400w max. It's single voice coil.

Use the internal low-pass crossover in the 100.2 to decide what to
send to the sub. The crossover points are variable between 65 Hz and
240 Hz. Play around with the crossover settings. If you were to
cross it over too low, like 65 Hz, you'd be lacking bass. With the
crossover too high, like 200 Hz, it may start to sound "muddy" and
pull the soundstage backwards, since your ears can localize 200 Hz
much easier than 80 or 90 Hz.
Keep in mind that the high-pass crossover point for the components
does NOT have to match the low-pass crossover point for the subs.
Most cars have a significant "cabin gain" that will boost frequencies
in the 80-110 Hz range, so sometimes it works well to "gap" the
crossover points, say 90 Hz high-pass and 70-80 Hz low-pass, and let
the vehicle cabin gain take care of the gap. With all the flexibility
you have in your crossover points, I'd recommend a tuning session at a
shop with an RTA (Real-Time Analyzer) to tweak everything how you like
it.


The Hu will most likely be the Nak-cd 400. I was thinking of running
the rear speakers off the HU. Factory 5.25's for now maybe upgrade
driver later.

Yep, you can upgrade the rear speakers and/or add an amp back there
later. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you hear how the
stock speakers sound once you add the Bass Blockers and they don't
have to reproduce the low-frequency content.


Sub ok going through the hole in the rear? Or maybe remove the rear
5/25's all together and let the sound come through the top of the rear
deck as well? I'm thinking midbass would be nice in the rear rather
than just hard air robbing thump.

I'd leave the rear speakers in for now. In a car the size of yours,
at least a little rear fill is a good thing.

Scott Gardner


--
JoeLac
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these are MY oppinions... not facts... Based largely on the installs
Ive done since 1988

Garrett


JoeLac wrote:

Someone told me to place the tweeters as close as possible to the
midbass/woofer. In my case that would be the kick panels. Right or
wrong?

Right


Someone said to use the power of HU to power the rear speakers on the
deck. He said at best all I need is fill.

Disconnect the rear speakers entirely, IMHO no need for rear fill if
youve developed your front sound stage. IMHO midbass speakers in the
rear to suppliment the fronts would be a better option


My sub will be in the trunk. There is a place behind the rear seat arm
rest for ski poles. I was thinking of cutting that hole out and letting
the sub sound come through that hole.

Good, design an adequate enclosure though, IMHO that is more critical
than where the subs fire through.


About wiring. Should the drivers side left channel be on the same
channel as the passengers rear speaker? Cross phased? Or should they be
side to side as normal?

IMHO you dont need rear fill with a solid front soundstage.


The focal crossovers I have are 3 way. Should they be set to remove all
the bass from the kick panels and just leave the highs and mids of the
Focals? I have specs on these crossovers if that's needed.

Ideally freq's from 80Hz - 20000Hz should come from your kick panels or
have minimal path length difference between the Left and right sides.
Most kick panel mids cant play that low though, so they should play
from 350 Hz. That way most of your vocal sound stage comes from the kicks.


Here's what I'm thinking. 95 BMW 525i. Lanzar Optidrive 200.2 for the
Focal 5.25 and tweets. The focals I have are rated at 160w max @ 4
ohms.
100x2 (rms) should be plenty powerful for them.

Lanzar 100.2 for the Polk gnx10. Run the lanzar bridged to the sub. The
100.2 is rated at 90w rms x2 @ 4ohms so running the lanzar bridged to
the sub gives me 180w to the qlogic box. That sub is rated 175w
continous, 400w max. It's single voice coil.


Should be stellar, those opti amps are monsters... dont listen to fools
who say Lanzar and Pyramid are the same thing... THEY AREN'T. Same
parent company's but different product lines (although the 2400D and
1200D share the same PCB)


The Hu will most likely be the Nak-cd 400. I was thinking of running
the rear speakers off the HU. Factory 5.25's for now maybe upgrade
driver later.

Nak CD transports are solid planks. Did a Cerwin / PPI / Phoenix Gold
install in 90' with a Nak CD head... still pumping the dbs today in my
dad's 4-runner. I guess if you must have that rear fill... OK it'll work


Sub ok going through the hole in the rear? Or maybe remove the rear
5/25's all together and let the sound come through the top of the rear
deck as well? I'm thinking midbass would be nice in the rear rather
than just hard air robbing thump.

There you go, pump 70-350Hz from your rear midbass speakers and you'll
get some nice kick drum punch without interfering with your front image.
Ski-hole should be adequate for the sub to play through.

--
JoeLac
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Up-to-date Crutchfield referral discount coupon code here to save you
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Someone told me to place the tweeters as close as possible to the
midbass/woofer. In my case that would be the kick panels. Right or
wrong?

Not right, not wrong. You need to figure this out for yourself by trial and
error. All cars differ. All speakers differ. Installing them in the kick
panels will ensure on-axis mounting (not necessarily a good or bad thing).
If you have the time and patience, your best bet is to buy some two sided
tape and try the tweeters everywhere.

Someone said to use the power of HU to power the rear speakers on the
deck. He said at best all I need is fill.

If you can't afford an amp for them, this may be fine for you.

My sub will be in the trunk. There is a place behind the rear seat arm
rest for ski poles. I was thinking of cutting that hole out and letting
the sub sound come through that hole.

About wiring. Should the drivers side left channel be on the same
channel as the passengers rear speaker? Cross phased? Or should they be
side to side as normal?

I don't understand what you're asking here. Left should be on the left side
of the car, right should be on the right. Some people use a mono channel
for the rears, but you don't have that option without the proper amp.


The focal crossovers I have are 3 way. Should they be set to remove all
the bass from the kick panels and just leave the highs and mids of the
Focals? I have specs on these crossovers if that's needed.

"All bass"? No. Subwoofer bass? Yes. The highpass cutoff should
generally be in the 80-150Hz region.

Here's what I'm thinking. 95 BMW 525i. Lanzar Optidrive 200.2 for the
Focal 5.25 and tweets. The focals I have are rated at 160w max @ 4
ohms.
100x2 (rms) should be plenty powerful for them.

Lanzar 100.2 for the Polk gnx10. Run the lanzar bridged to the sub. The
100.2 is rated at 90w rms x2 @ 4ohms so running the lanzar bridged to
the sub gives me 180w to the qlogic box. That sub is rated 175w
continous, 400w max. It's single voice coil.

The Hu will most likely be the Nak-cd 400. I was thinking of running
the rear speakers off the HU. Factory 5.25's for now maybe upgrade
driver later.

Sub ok going through the hole in the rear? Or maybe remove the rear
5/25's all together and let the sound come through the top of the rear
deck as well? I'm thinking midbass would be nice in the rear rather
than just hard air robbing thump.

Some people prefer rear fill. If you don't care about the rear fill, you
may as well remove the stock speakers altogether. But don't go without rear
fill for the sake of adding holes to the trunk. Do it only if you're not
going to use rear fill anyway.

Someone told me to place the tweeters as close as possible to the
midbass/woofer. In my case that would be the kick panels. Right or
wrong?

Right. You want them as close to each other as you can. Putting them
in the kickpanels has the added benefit of minimizing the path-length
differences between the speakers and your ears.

That can be a benefit. But does it outweigh the benefits of running them
somewhere else? Not necessarily.

Someone said to use the power of HU to power the rear speakers on the
deck. He said at best all I need is fill.

Give it a shot - you can always add an amp later. Add some "Bass
Blockers" (passive high-pass crossovers) to the rear speakers, though.
No need for them to try to play the low notes if you have a sub.

Not crucial. Usually (but not always) the bottleneck when running HU power
is that the HU will be driven into clipping before the speaker is bottoming
out. Bass blockers do nothing to alleviate this problem.

JoeLac wrote:

Someone told me to place the tweeters as close as possible to the
midbass/woofer. In my case that would be the kick panels. Right or
wrong?

The answer will come when you answer this! Which way sounds better?
The reason that component speakers became popular in cars was because
the tweeter could be mounted up high where you could hear it best!
Typicly mounting the tweeter high in the car interior will somewhat bring
the soundstage up higher and make it sound better for most folks!

But, taking the tweet far from the mid may have some effects for some
folks that are not desireable.... Personally I like the tweet high, if you
cant get the mid up that high I wouldnt worry about it...

Someone said to use the power of HU to power the rear speakers on the
deck. He said at best all I need is fill.

I would amplify all the speaker the best I could...
There is a group of IDIOTS that thinks ALL SOUND should be a
front stage ONLY and anything from the rear should be minimal...

From actuall in car tests with actuall customers of mine, most folks
prefer sound from the rear to be about equal of that from the front.

Take any car with 4 speakers, fade it to the front so only the front
speakers play!! Most folks will want to fade it back to the point
where all the speakers play.... One group THINKS that the
front imaging is the most important thing in a car stereo, but with
real people listening to real cars it plainly is not!!

My sub will be in the trunk. There is a place behind the rear seat arm
rest for ski poles. I was thinking of cutting that hole out and letting
the sub sound come through that hole.

The sub sound will probably come right on through without cutting
out the ski hole, but cutting out the hole probably wont hurt anything.

About wiring. Should the drivers side left channel be on the same
channel as the passengers rear speaker? Cross phased? Or should they be
side to side as normal?

side to side NORMAL!!!

The focal crossovers I have are 3 way. Should they be set to remove all
the bass from the kick panels and just leave the highs and mids of the
Focals? I have specs on these crossovers if that's needed.

Set them where they sound the best!!
Dont go into this system design with pore-concieved ideas, you may chose
to do something one way without listening to the other ways that might
sound better!!

The Hu will most likely be the Nak-cd 400.

why not buy a good headunit... We were Nak dealers and had to drop
them because or reliability issues.... There are plenty of good headunits
out there...

Eddie Runner
http://www.installer.com/tech/

Easy tiger... Oppinions will vary, and thats what the OP is requesting

If I am an idiot because my ears tell me rear fill above 350Hz is not
needed, then so be it.

End of discussion
Garrett


I would amplify all the speaker the best I could...
There is a group of IDIOTS that thinks ALL SOUND should be a
front stage ONLY and anything from the rear should be minimal...

From actuall in car tests with actuall customers of mine, most folks
prefer sound from the rear to be about equal of that from the front.

Take any car with 4 speakers, fade it to the front so only the front
speakers play!! Most folks will want to fade it back to the point
where all the speakers play.... One group THINKS that the
front imaging is the most important thing in a car stereo, but with
real people listening to real cars it plainly is not!!

Easy tiger... Oppinions will vary, and thats what the OP is requesting

If I am an idiot because my ears tell me rear fill above 350Hz is not
needed, then so be it.

End of discussion
Garrett

Opinions vary, so the poster should realize what parts are opinions and what
parts are facts. You issued a disclaimer at the beginning that it was ALL
opinion, which makes it difficult to make the distinction.

Anyway, my opinion is a little closer to Eddie's, though not entirely. I
generally prefer rear fill, but not always, and it mostly depends on the car
and the type of music I'm listening to at the time. I also tend to like it
to extend to higher frequencies - 1kHz or more.

Yeah... Oppinions Suck sometimes but hey thats what NGs are all about :~)

I might add some rear fill to my system in the near future when I go AV /
DVD. So I'm not completely against it.

Peace,
Garrett

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
Easy tiger... Oppinions will vary, and thats what the OP is requesting

If I am an idiot because my ears tell me rear fill above 350Hz is not
needed, then so be it.

End of discussion
Garrett

Opinions vary, so the poster should realize what parts are opinions and
what
parts are facts. You issued a disclaimer at the beginning that it was ALL
opinion, which makes it difficult to make the distinction.

Anyway, my opinion is a little closer to Eddie's, though not entirely. I
generally prefer rear fill, but not always, and it mostly depends on the
car
and the type of music I'm listening to at the time. I also tend to like
it
to extend to higher frequencies - 1kHz or more.