"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

Graham, you're still the proud writer of pedophile fiction that
you've always been. Don't try to contaminate me with the night
soil of your mind.

You mean those fictional stories about having received
pedophilic material in the mail from an unknown source.
Oh....that was you that wrote that.

It's very much like you sockpuppet Yustabe, to gloss over the
pedophile fiction you've posted, and stated your approval of.
Then, you try to characterize my frequent public objections to
pedophile fiction as itself being pedophile fiction. Same
question I've been asking the rest of your clique: Why are you,
and truth and reason such strangers?

Stop lying.
The first reference to Pedophilia was introduced by YOU

Simply not true. Tell you what sockpuppet Yustabe, you post the URL
of my alleged first mention of pedophilia on RAO, and then I'll set
the record straight.

It has already been documented here numerous times.

Then you should be able to find it quite easily, sockpuppet Yustabe.

For example here's someone objecting to Middius' pedophilia on RAO:

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=35...anarchy.io.com

It's dated 4/23/1998.

Then we have the "Kevin" incident, which was one of Dr. Gindi's more
lengthy
experiments with his interest on pedophilia on RAO:




http://www.google.com/groups?selm=19...4%40ng-fd1.aol
.com

It's dated 10/25/1998

Or this classic from Singh:

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=01...543ef1cf%40ibm

It's dated 6/25/1998

How this classic Derrida post complete with pedophilic references?




http://www.google.com/groups?selm=Pi...0721e-100000%4
0thor.internauts.ca

It's dated 5/22/1997

You didn't own up to it then, and you are not going to change now.

As soon as you provide a confirmable date for the post you have in
mind sockpuppet Yustabe, we can see who was the first to introduce
pedophilia to RAO.

Been there, done that (collectively)

Then you know what the date is. And the date is?


Look it up

Its been published here many times.
Have fun with Google.

everybody knows, no reason for you to keep up the pretense.

What does *everybody* know?


That you ar a turd.




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Joseph Oberlander wrote:
George M. Middius wrote:


I'd rather have an old pro work on a speaker for 2 hours and produce a
pleasing result. But if you prefer to have a know-nothing amateur --
which is how you describe trotsky -- slave over a design for 2 weeks
and come up with crap, that's the way you should go.

snicker™


So would I. If he WAS actually making and tweaking and asking
questions on how to improve things and pouring over programs and
manuals and such...

Yes, I'd pay a bit. Ellis Audio is a perfect example.


Of a guy looking to lose money? Agreed. I think what you need to
realize is that you can't tell what direction the arrow is pointing in
this example too, Joe. Now go put on a dunce cap and sit in the corner.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Michael Mckelvy wrote:


But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.


Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

. In many cases the best sound system many consumers
have, is the one in their motor vehicle.

A sad commentary, indeed




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Arny Krueger wrote:
"Michael Mckelvy" wrote in message


"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
news


Arny Krueger wrote:


Much of what Mckelvy posted at that time was already known to be
true, such as Madisound's role as parts supplier. It was well-known
to most of us (but apparently not you, Graham) that designing even
a mediocre loudspeaker crossover was beyond Singh's virtually
non-existent technical abilities.


I personally think it is possible. It just requires reading and
learning and a few breadboard kits and parts. Shoot, It's no
different than studying to get a radio license. A few months later
and you are good to go.


But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


I know dozens of EE's and all show considerable signs of knowing an ohm from
a volt.


And they all own boats, or was that a different story?

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
nk.net

Michael Mckelvy wrote:



But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.

Really?


Really.

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=38...A615D%40mc.net

Greg Singh wrote:

"What do you mean 'claim to have an EE'? I invited you to corroborate that
fact
with the Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign."



Arny, this is interesting: why would you be in a hurry to bring up your
past failures like this?

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

[snip]

Interestingly enough, Singh could have acquired the resources for
technically designing and technically testing his design, for maybe
as much money as he put into the web site. Every time he ships a
pair of speakers across the country, he spends the price of a cheap
but highly competent measurement mic, for example.

Are you ready to built and give him a real test procedure ?


No, because I make a rule of not preparing for highly improbable situations.

Building speakers is generally not my thing. But I have goodly number
friends who design speaker systems that are a critical part of products
selling for $13,000-50,000,


Okay, these are the ones that own boats, right?

From: trotsky
Date: 10/8/2003 7:06 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

snipped

Poor deluded Trotsky wrote:



Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me.

.....and your speakers are excellent. ;-)

You really are a legend in your own (twisted) mind!

trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Michael Mckelvy wrote:


But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.



Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.



Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.


He says that because he doesn't speak with me.
He's scary about me. He perfectly knows that he couldn't go the
distance... ;o)

"trotsky" wrote in message


Michael Mckelvy wrote:

"trotsky" wrote in message
...

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Which is still merely a hopelessly average design.

It sounds like you're describing JBLs.

You wish you could get .001% of their market share.

Of course that would mean actual R&D.

I've already surveyed the marketplace for years, Mickey, and clearly
throwing more money at a problem isn't necessarily the way to solve
it.

A quickie schlock job with a ridiculously high price isn't going to solve it
either.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

Graham, you're still the proud writer of pedophile fiction
that you've always been. Don't try to contaminate me with
the night soil of your mind.

You mean those fictional stories about having received
pedophilic material in the mail from an unknown source.
Oh....that was you that wrote that.

It's very much like you sockpuppet Yustabe, to gloss over the
pedophile fiction you've posted, and stated your approval of.
Then, you try to characterize my frequent public objections to
pedophile fiction as itself being pedophile fiction. Same
question I've been asking the rest of your clique: Why are you,
and truth and reason such strangers?

Stop lying.
The first reference to Pedophilia was introduced by YOU

Simply not true. Tell you what sockpuppet Yustabe, you post the
URL of my alleged first mention of pedophilia on RAO, and then
I'll set the record straight.

It has already been documented here numerous times.

Then you should be able to find it quite easily, sockpuppet
Yustabe.

For example here's someone objecting to Middius' pedophilia on RAO:

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=35...anarchy.io.com

It's dated 4/23/1998.

Then we have the "Kevin" incident, which was one of Dr. Gindi's
more
lengthy
experiments with his interest on pedophilia on RAO:





http://www.google.com/groups?selm=19...4%40ng-fd1.aol
.com

It's dated 10/25/1998

Or this classic from Singh:

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=01...543ef1cf%40ibm

It's dated 6/25/1998

How this classic Derrida post complete with pedophilic references?





http://www.google.com/groups?selm=Pi...0721e-100000%4
0thor.internauts.ca

It's dated 5/22/1997

You didn't own up to it then, and you are not going to change
now.

As soon as you provide a confirmable date for the post you have in
mind sockpuppet Yustabe, we can see who was the first to introduce
pedophilia to RAO.

Been there, done that (collectively)

Then you know what the date is. And the date is?


Look it up

Its been published here many times.
Have fun with Google.

everybody knows, no reason for you to keep up the pretense.

What does *everybody* know?


That you ar a turd.

Spoken like the true professional you really are, sockpuppet Yustabe.

"trotsky" wrote in message


Michael Mckelvy wrote:

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
news

Arny Krueger wrote:

Much of what Mckelvy posted at that time was already known to be
true, such as Madisound's role as parts supplier. It was well-known
to most of us (but
apparently not you, Graham) that designing even a mediocre
loudspeaker crossover was beyond Singh's virtually non-existent
technical abilities.

I personally think it is possible. It just requires reading and
learning and a few breadboard kits and parts. Shoot, It's no
different than studying to get a radio license. A few months later
and you are good to go.

But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE. He apparently
doesn't really know enough to do his own design work on Xovers.
Text book formulae and trial and error correction seem to be beyond
his abilities. Forty bucks to Madisound and some cheap drivers and
suddenly he thinks he's a designer.

There's nothing but his own sloth and probably poverty keeping him
from buying the same software and hardware that I and others use to
design and measure the performance of a speaker system.

Mickey, seriously, do you honestly think Joe and you have recipes for
success?

What they have is recipes for avoiding abject technical failure.

Arny Krueger wrote:

Three's two sides to that coin. The first is that the $40 Madisound design
is worlds better than equivalent analysis from say the 1960s or 1970s. The
second is that whether it is 1960 or 2003, the LEAP-type simplified
theoretical design is just a starting point.

The next thing that would happen is that a prototype would be built up and
tested and listened to. It would be tested and listened to in a variety of
environments. Adjustments to the system design would be made and there would
be an iterative process of build, test, build test. People who know what
they are doing, and therefore do this as expeditiously as possible, spend
months of hard work developing a single loudspeaker system.

Well, he could get a nice mic and software and do the same sort of
signal analysis that you and others do for audio cards. At least
get an idea.

Oh - look - a bad notch/dip there. Too much resonance there.
Read some books and recommendations and start adjusting things
like the port, filling(I head that acoustical lining/mats they put
in computer cases works wonders to deaden cabinets, for instance),
internal bracing, location of the binding posts ...

I've even seen designs where the drivers were too close to each
other or the tweeter merely needed to be in a seperate tiny box
within the main cabinet. Some designers just get fed up and put the
tweeted outside of the main box(B&W seems to like this) All part
of the months of experimenting.

That's just the beginning, but I bet that for $500 in materials
and equipment, including the parts to do the alterations, Greg
could double the quality of his design. Parts Express has a nice
set of speakers, btw. The removeable faceplates are perfect for
tsting internal alterations within minutes of each other.

One control speaker - original design. One is the previous mod,
and one is the current one. The control is there for later, when
the main testing is done to hear the improvement/change. Swap
faceplates and adjust things a bit at a time For $10-20 a pop,
this is a good design for his testing, at least IMO. Once the
design is debugged, then moving it to the other cabinet is pretty
doable.

"trotsky" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Lionel" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

[snip]

Interestingly enough, Singh could have acquired the resources for
technically designing and technically testing his design, for maybe
as much money as he put into the web site. Every time he ships a
pair of speakers across the country, he spends the price of a cheap
but highly competent measurement mic, for example.

Are you ready to built and give him a real test procedure ?


No, because I make a rule of not preparing for highly improbable
situations.

Building speakers is generally not my thing. But I have goodly
number friends who design speaker systems that are a critical part
of products selling for $13,000-50,000,


Okay, these are the ones that own boats, right?

Nope. None of them have a boat AFAIK.

"trotsky" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Michael Mckelvy" wrote in message


"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in
message news


Arny Krueger wrote:


Much of what Mckelvy posted at that time was already known to be
true, such as Madisound's role as parts supplier. It was
well-known to most of us (but apparently not you, Graham) that
designing even a mediocre loudspeaker crossover was beyond
Singh's virtually non-existent technical abilities.


I personally think it is possible. It just requires reading and
learning and a few breadboard kits and parts. Shoot, It's no
different than studying to get a radio license. A few months later
and you are good to go.


But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


I know dozens of EE's and all show considerable signs of knowing an
ohm from a volt.


And they all own boats, or was that a different story?

Different story.

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
ink.net

Arny Krueger wrote:

Three's two sides to that coin. The first is that the $40 Madisound
design is worlds better than equivalent analysis from say the 1960s
or 1970s. The second is that whether it is 1960 or 2003, the
LEAP-type simplified theoretical design is just a starting point.

The next thing that would happen is that a prototype would be built
up and tested and listened to. It would be tested and listened to in
a variety of environments. Adjustments to the system design would be
made and there would be an iterative process of build, test, build
test. People who know what they are doing, and therefore do this as
expeditiously as possible, spend months of hard work developing a
single loudspeaker system.

Well, he could get a nice mic and software and do the same sort of
signal analysis that you and others do for audio cards. At least
get an idea.

I think that for a $grand and a PC Singh probably already has, he could do
fairly sophisticated design and testing of speakers, if he knew what he was
doing.

Oh - look - a bad notch/dip there. Too much resonance there.

Yeah, stuff like that. It takes lots of work to make a speaker a production
item. He needs to get a bunch of drivers, measure them, and see how their
performance wanders around to make sure his design is centered on the
statistical mean.

Read some books and recommendations and start adjusting things
like the port, filling(I head that acoustical lining/mats they put
in computer cases works wonders to deaden cabinets, for instance),
internal bracing, location of the binding posts ...

Stuff like that. Stuff like looking at how smooth the front panel has to be
to not be a problem. Where on the baffle do the drivers work best.

I've even seen designs where the drivers were too close to each
other or the tweeter merely needed to be in a separate tiny box
within the main cabinet. Some designers just get fed up and put the
tweeted outside of the main box(B&W seems to like this) All part
of the months of experimenting.

Stuff like that.

That's just the beginning, but I bet that for $500 in materials
and equipment, including the parts to do the alterations, Greg
could double the quality of his design. Parts Express has a nice
set of speakers, btw. The removable faceplates are perfect for
testing internal alterations within minutes of each other.

Something like that.

One control speaker - original design. One is the previous mod,
and one is the current one. The control is there for later, when
the main testing is done to hear the improvement/change. Swap
faceplates and adjust things a bit at a time For $10-20 a pop,
this is a good design for his testing, at least IMO. Once the
design is debugged, then moving it to the other cabinet is pretty
doable.

Bottom line, lots of work is needed to get a competitive design worthy of
the appellation "high end". It takes time to learn how to feel comfortable
with the tools, even before work on a serious design commences. Singh and
most of the RAO trolls have no appreciation for that, so it just ain't gonna
happen for them.

The first thing Singh would have to do is drop his anti-technology rhetoric.
If he's going to walk the walk, he would do well to start talking the talk.
I don't know who in his life would teach him, though. I think he's more than
****ed off anybody who could. He's got a years-long track record for being
congenitally unteachable.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message



Michael Mckelvy wrote:


"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Which is still merely a hopelessly average design.


It sounds like you're describing JBLs.


You wish you could get .001% of their market share.


Of course that would mean actual R&D.


I've already surveyed the marketplace for years, Mickey, and clearly
throwing more money at a problem isn't necessarily the way to solve
it.


A quickie schlock job with a ridiculously high price isn't going to solve it
either.


Krueger, you buy used and close-out speakers and you think you're
qualified to comment on price? Do you have to win the horse's ass of
the year award *every* year?

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message



Michael Mckelvy wrote:


"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message
news


Arny Krueger wrote:


Much of what Mckelvy posted at that time was already known to be
true, such as Madisound's role as parts supplier. It was well-known

to most of us (but

apparently not you, Graham) that designing even a mediocre
loudspeaker crossover was beyond Singh's virtually non-existent
technical abilities.


I personally think it is possible. It just requires reading and
learning and a few breadboard kits and parts. Shoot, It's no
different than studying to get a radio license. A few months later
and you are good to go.


But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE. He apparently
doesn't really know enough to do his own design work on Xovers.
Text book formulae and trial and error correction seem to be beyond
his abilities. Forty bucks to Madisound and some cheap drivers and
suddenly he thinks he's a designer.


There's nothing but his own sloth and probably poverty keeping him
from buying the same software and hardware that I and others use to
design and measure the performance of a speaker system.


Mickey, seriously, do you honestly think Joe and you have recipes for
success?


What they have is recipes for avoiding abject technical failure.


God, Krueger, I've already caught you lying about this once, and you
couldn't respond to the ****ing post even after I posted it SIX TIMES.
Crawl back in your ****ing rat hole and do us all a favor.

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:46:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

uilding speakers is generally not my thing. But I have goodly number
friends who design speaker systems that are a critical part of products
selling for $13,000-50,000, that sell in the 100,000's. They talk a lot
about what they do, and I've visited their workplaces. I've met a number of
their co-workers and suppliers as well. Note, I live in the Detroit area.

So why don't you ream them for selling products that are "overpriced"?
Why don't you get them to face the errors of their ways? Why don't you
notify them immediately that any speaker over $1500 is facing extreme
dininishing returns? After all, one of the "reference web pages" that
you tout says so.

Is it because you're blinded by science? Impressed with labs and
sawdust? Is it the smell of the glue that turns you on?

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Michael Mckelvy wrote:


But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.


Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.

Funny, that's what a hooker says, innit?

"trotsky" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message



Michael Mckelvy wrote:


"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Which is still merely a hopelessly average design.


It sounds like you're describing JBLs.


You wish you could get .001% of their market share.

Of course that would mean actual R&D.

I've already surveyed the marketplace for years, Mickey, and clearly
throwing more money at a problem isn't necessarily the way to solve
it.

A quickie schlock job with a ridiculously high price isn't going to
solve it either.

Krueger, you buy used and close-out speakers and you think you're
qualified to comment on price?

Which speakers do I have that are used and/or close-outs? Well, the Paradigm
Phantoms I bought about 7 years ago were last year's model. Then there are
the 5 or more pair of speakers I purchased since then, which were new,
street priced products. So what's your problem, Singh? I got a good deal 7
years ago and that makes me a cheapskate?

Do you have to win the horse's ass of the year award *every* year?

Singh, which one of us has been crying in his soup because his RAO-based
marketing plan blew up?

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:46:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

building speakers is generally not my thing. But I have goodly number
friends who design speaker systems that are a critical part of
products selling for $13,000-50,000, that sell in the 100,000's.
They talk a lot about what they do, and I've visited their
workplaces. I've met a number of their co-workers and suppliers as
well. Note, I live in the Detroit area.

So why don't you ream them for selling products that are "overpriced"?

Probably because I don't have hard-and-fast rules about speaker pricing.

Why don't you get them to face the errors of their ways?

Probably because I think their work delivers good value for the money, and
have a well-known market research company that says the same thing.

Why don't you
notify them immediately that any speaker over $1500 is facing extreme
diminishing returns? After all, one of the "reference web pages" that
you tout says so.

Obviously you don't keep up very well Singh, because a few days ago I agreed
with someone else's deconstruction of that specific point.

Is it because you're blinded by science?

Since all your premises are false Weil, you don't have support for any
conclusions.

Impressed with labs and sawdust?

Since all your premises are false Weil, you don't have support for any
conclusions.

Is it the smell of the glue that turns you on?

Since all your premises are false Weil, you don't have support for any
conclusions.

"trotsky" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message



Michael Mckelvy wrote:


"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in
message
news

Arny Krueger wrote:


Much of what Mckelvy posted at that time was already known to be
true, such as Madisound's role as parts supplier. It was
well-known

to most of us (but

apparently not you, Graham) that designing even a mediocre
loudspeaker crossover was beyond Singh's virtually non-existent
technical abilities.


I personally think it is possible. It just requires reading and
learning and a few breadboard kits and parts. Shoot, It's no
different than studying to get a radio license. A few months
later and you are good to go.


But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE. He apparently
doesn't really know enough to do his own design work on Xovers.
Text book formulae and trial and error correction seem to be beyond
his abilities. Forty bucks to Madisound and some cheap drivers and
suddenly he thinks he's a designer.


There's nothing but his own sloth and probably poverty keeping him
from buying the same software and hardware that I and others use to
design and measure the performance of a speaker system.


Mickey, seriously, do you honestly think Joe and you have recipes
for success?


What they have is recipes for avoiding abject technical failure.

God, Krueger, I've already caught you lying about this once, and you
couldn't respond to the ****ing post even after I posted it SIX TIMES.

I don't feel compelled to respond to every bit of your delusional behavior,
Singh.

Crawl back in your ****ing rat hole and do us all a favor.

Singh, I'm trying to figure out the average time in years between when you
get your butt kicked and when you finally feel the pain. Seems like RAO
history says its well over 3.

So Singh I guess we'll just have to wait about 3 years until you figure out
what's happened to you during the last couple of months.

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 11:56:55 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:46:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

building speakers is generally not my thing. But I have goodly number
friends who design speaker systems that are a critical part of
products selling for $13,000-50,000, that sell in the 100,000's.
They talk a lot about what they do, and I've visited their
workplaces. I've met a number of their co-workers and suppliers as
well. Note, I live in the Detroit area.

So why don't you ream them for selling products that are "overpriced"?

Probably because I don't have hard-and-fast rules about speaker pricing.

What about the "diminishing returns" that you claimed once you hit the
$1500 level. How much of a diminishing return do you think you get for
spending over 30 times that amount?

Or are you now saying that your previous reference is so much
poppycock?

Why don't you get them to face the errors of their ways?

Probably because I think their work delivers good value for the money,

Noted that you think that spending $50,000 is good value.

I don't have a problem with that.

and have a well-known market research company that says the same thing.

That has nothing to do with whether or not they actually *are* good
value.

Why don't you
notify them immediately that any speaker over $1500 is facing extreme
diminishing returns? After all, one of the "reference web pages" that
you tout says so.

Obviously you don't keep up very well Singh, because a few days ago I agreed
with someone else's deconstruction of that specific point.

Still having trouble keeping track, I see.

And no, you *didn't* "agree".

Is it because you're blinded by science?

Since all your premises are false Weil, you don't have support for any
conclusions.

Impressed with labs and sawdust?

Since all your premises are false Weil, you don't have support for any
conclusions.

Is it the smell of the glue that turns you on?

Since all your premises are false Weil, you don't have support for any
conclusions.

Arny Krueger wrote:

(snip)

Something like that.

I don't build speakers for a living, yet I can think of at least
fifty different things to try to make the sound better. It's
a given that 90% of them will not work as well as planned, but
that's part of the fun - testing and poking around and altering
everything.

Oh - about that acoustic mat material. I bet by putting that on the
inside of the cabinet he could effectively get the same effect as
having much denser cabinet material. The stuff is amazing at
absorbing stray soundwaves. I bet a thin sheet running a few inches
deep between the woofer and tweeter(like a curtain halfway across the box)
would also clean up the midrange. I've never actually used the stuff
for a speaker before, but it seems like it would be very interesting
and a potentially better replacement for the typical filling materials.

Have you ever experimented with the stuff?

Arny Krueger wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:46:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

building speakers is generally not my thing. But I have goodly number
friends who design speaker systems that are a critical part of
products selling for $13,000-50,000, that sell in the 100,000's.
They talk a lot about what they do, and I've visited their
workplaces. I've met a number of their co-workers and suppliers as
well. Note, I live in the Detroit area.

Just curious, but this means car speakers, right? Do any of the big 3 still make
speakers in the USA? That has to be a neat job.

Probably because I think their work delivers good value for the money,

Noted that you think that spending $50,000 is good value.

Context anyone? It's a $50,000 car with speakers in it... not $50,000 speakers.
Combine the sales numbers, with the price range, and Detroit, and it's pretty
easy to figure that out!

That said, I put aftermarket speakers in my car, and the difference was night and
day. The junk Delco supplied wouldn't be out of place in a Califone record
player.

dave weil wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Michael Mckelvy wrote:



But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.


Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.


Funny, that's what a hooker says, innit?



I've never paid for sex. You?

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

"trotsky" wrote in message




Michael Mckelvy wrote:


"trotsky" wrote in message
...

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Which is still merely a hopelessly average design.

It sounds like you're describing JBLs.

You wish you could get .001% of their market share.


Of course that would mean actual R&D.


I've already surveyed the marketplace for years, Mickey, and clearly
throwing more money at a problem isn't necessarily the way to solve
it.


A quickie schlock job with a ridiculously high price isn't going to
solve it either.


Krueger, you buy used and close-out speakers and you think you're
qualified to comment on price?


Which speakers do I have that are used and/or close-outs? Well, the Paradigm
Phantoms I bought about 7 years ago were last year's model.


Krueger, you are a ****ing moron. You just put in a plug for Vergence
(God knows how you managed to get the name right this time), a speaker
you bought *after* the company was going out of business, rather than
actually supporting the brand by buying it at retail. YOU sat around
and waited for the company to do badly before striking out like a weasel
so you could get a deal on the speakers.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Crawl back in your ****ing rat hole and do us all a favor.


Singh, I'm trying to figure out the average time in years between when you
get your butt kicked and when you finally feel the pain. Seems like RAO
history says its well over 3.


Which aspect of the New Testament are you trying to emulate here, Krueger?

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:42:38 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Michael Mckelvy wrote:



But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.


Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.


Funny, that's what a hooker says, innit?



I've never paid for sex. You?

You having paid for sex requires HAVING sex.

dave weil said:

I've never paid for sex. You?

You having paid for sex requires HAVING sex.

Unless he just likes to watch........

"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Michael Mckelvy wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Joseph Oberlander wrote:

George M. Middius wrote:


Obie Wanna Wail and Whine said:



Check out the madisound "woodstyle" cabinets.


I have. They're ****. My cabinets are superb in comparison. Joe,
do you have good taste in anything?



Cabinet finish doesn;t mean squat to the sound of the speaker.



You're sounding more trotsky-like every day.

You accused trotsky of slapping together components at random, without
"doing the design", and you claimed this was a guarantee his speakers
would sound awful. Subsequently, it transpired that his own R&D
contribution was superseded because he was using a proven design
(albeit an off-the-shelf one),


Which is still merely a hopelessly average design.


It sounds like you're describing JBLs.


You wish you could get .001% of their market share.

Of course that would mean actual R&D.


I've already surveyed the marketplace for years, Mickey, and clearly
throwing more money at a problem isn't necessarily the way to solve it.

Especially if you haven't a clue.

"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Michael Mckelvy wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Joseph Oberlander wrote:

trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:


trotsky wrote:


There you have it, folks.

Greg didn't design these speakers. Madisound designed them.

And FWIW, I didn't *know* they were Madisound kits, I just had a
hunch.




Check out the madisound "woodstyle" cabinets.




I have.


Where?

They're ****.

Brad will build cabinets to any specification you wish.


For $65 a piece, per Joe Oberlander? Is this where your cabinets come
from, Mickey? You're clearly on a first name basis with the guy.

I have him build cabinets for me. He's a pro and many others recognize this
fact, Legacy and Kinergetics had cabinets built by Woodstyle.

Apparently you don't know **** about cabinet design either, oh wait we
covered that when you said it was OK for the box to rattle so it could
improve the sound.


Generally it's only Arny that's capable of such jealousy.

Jealousy? Of what?

My cabinets are superb in comparison. Joe,

do you have good taste in anything?


He knows enough not to buy **** from you.


You're spazzing, Mickey. You need to lie down for awhile.

Evasion noted.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:42:38 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Michael Mckelvy wrote:



But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.


Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.


Funny, that's what a hooker says, innit?



I've never paid for sex. You?

You having paid for sex requires HAVING sex.

Some guys even hookers won't ****.

dave weil wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:42:38 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Michael Mckelvy wrote:




But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.


Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.


Funny, that's what a hooker says, innit?



I've never paid for sex. You?


You having paid for sex requires HAVING sex.



Funny how you don't deny your whoring.

dave weil wrote:

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:42:38 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Michael Mckelvy wrote:




But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.


Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.


Funny, that's what a hooker says, innit?



I've never paid for sex. You?


You having paid for sex requires HAVING sex.

He surely paid for his screwdriver.
Can we consider that this technically advenced and original onanism is
what you call "having sex" ? )

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:41:14 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:
On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:42:38 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Michael Mckelvy wrote:




But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.


Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.


Funny, that's what a hooker says, innit?



I've never paid for sex. You?


You having paid for sex requires HAVING sex.



Funny how you don't deny your whoring.

Funny how don't claim that you've ever *had* sex either.

You lose.

Again.

I guess I'm the only mother****er on USENET that can take Greg down
with a sentence or two.

Michael Mckelvy wrote:
"dave weil" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:42:38 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Michael Mckelvy wrote:




But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.


Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.


Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.


Funny, that's what a hooker says, innit?



I've never paid for sex. You?

You having paid for sex requires HAVING sex.


Some guys even hookers won't ****.


Now *that's* the voice of experience.

trotsky wrote:



Michael Mckelvy wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:42:38 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:06:33 GMT, trotsky wrote:



Joseph Oberlander wrote:


Michael Mckelvy wrote:




But Greg has claimed repeatedly that he has an EE.



Really? OMG I could have reamed him ten times harder. Dang.



Joe, honestly, I haven't encountered a single person that can go the
distance with me. The more you post, the stupider you look--that's a
simple fact. And I *never* miss a trick.



Funny, that's what a hooker says, innit?




I've never paid for sex. You?


You having paid for sex requires HAVING sex.



Some guys even hookers won't ****.



Now *that's* the voice of experience.


This one is very good...
....It remembers me my childhood.