[Don Pearce[_3_]]

Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d


I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison page.

Cheers

Ian

[David Looser]

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d


I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison page.

Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time. An
article I have from a 1952 edition of 'Radio Constructor' refers to "some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs but a
few pennies each.

David.


Ian

[Bob Eld]

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d


I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison
page.

Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time. An
article I have from a 1952 edition of 'Radio Constructor' refers to "some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as
much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs but
a
few pennies each.

David.


Ian

How about 450,000 transistors for $50 in a processor. That's $0.00011 per!
That level of integration makes our modern computerized world possible.
Imagine trying to do it with "fire bottles"!

[Engineer[_2_]]

On Dec 14, 10:23*am, "David Looser"
wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

...

Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d

I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison page.

Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time. An
article I have from a 1952 edition of *'Radio Constructor' refers to "some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs but a
few pennies each.

David.

Ian

Way, way back, I nearly cried when I fried an OC71 in an audio stage I
was trying to make!
Cheers,
Roger

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:19:10 -0800 (PST), Engineer
wrote:

On Dec 14, 10:23*am, "David Looser"
wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

...

Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d

I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison page.

Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time. An
article I have from a 1952 edition of *'Radio Constructor' refers to "some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs but a
few pennies each.

David.

Ian

Way, way back, I nearly cried when I fried an OC71 in an audio stage I
was trying to make!

They were down to 5 Bob by 1966 - absolute bargain, particularly when
you scraped the paint off and used them for a photo transistor. I
first discovered this by accident when an amplifier I had made hummed
when I took the hardboard cover off the back.

d

[Keith G[_2_]]

"Bob Eld" wrote


How about 450,000 transistors for $50 in a processor. That's $0.00011 per!
That level of integration makes our modern computerized world possible.
Imagine trying to do it with "fire bottles"!


It didn't stop Tommy Flowers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers

[Brian Gaff]

Its purely because of mass production of course. once the main factories
making valves got below a certain number prices started going up, and vice
versa for semiconductors of course.
I think one has to be careful if buying the Chinese copies of valves around
at the current time, as quality control is almost non existent, though some
Russian ones are made a lot better I'm told.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d

[Brian Gaff]

If anyone has some old Practical Televisions, I can recall adverts for tube
rejuvenators which claimed to be able to make television tubes work again
after they had gone low emission.

Then there were endless projects In Practical Wireles for things like Valve
ohm meters, and grid dip oscillators.


In some later television mags, when valves were being phased out, some
enterprising folk actually made valve replacements circuits using
semiconductors on a valve base!

As I recall, one flashover and they were history.

grin.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d


I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison page.

Cheers

Ian

[David Looser]

"Brian Gaff" wrote

In some later television mags, when valves were being phased out, some
enterprising folk actually made valve replacements circuits using
semiconductors on a valve base!

Plug-in semiconductor equivalents for valves were produced by the major
manufacturers for many years and widely used in professional and industrial
equipment.

As I recall, one flashover and they were history.

Only if they had been incompetently designed.

David.

[Brian Gaff]

Well yes, the heat generation alone fo valves made it pretty hard to make
small items run cool.
I have some old 405line projection tubes somewhere. Never run one outside
the light box with its 1inch thick lead glass concave mirror or you will
get an Xray overdose!
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bob Eld" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d


I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison
page.

Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time. An
article I have from a 1952 edition of 'Radio Constructor' refers to
"some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as
much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs but
a
few pennies each.

David.


Ian

How about 450,000 transistors for $50 in a processor. That's $0.00011 per!
That level of integration makes our modern computerized world possible.
Imagine trying to do it with "fire bottles"!

[David Looser]

"Brian Gaff" wrote

Its purely because of mass production of course. once the main factories
making valves got below a certain number prices started going up, and vice
versa for semiconductors of course.

Not "purely". Until the planar technique came along transistor production
was quite labour-intensive. And the Bell Labs patent also helped to keep
transistor prices high whilst it lasted.

David.

[Brian Gaff]

Who recalls the RT and VC kit transistor radio called the Elegant 7,
refering to a whole seven transistors!
I built one of these, but the output transistors were faulty and after ten
minutes they would get very hot and the output would stop. Tuurn it off for
a few minutes and it did it all again. In the end the company sent us a set
of matched GET 114s and all was well!

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Engineer" wrote in message
...
On Dec 14, 10:23 am, "David Looser"
wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

...

Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d

I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison
page.

Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time. An
article I have from a 1952 edition of 'Radio Constructor' refers to "some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as
much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs but
a
few pennies each.

David.

Ian

Way, way back, I nearly cried when I fried an OC71 in an audio stage I
was trying to make!
Cheers,
Roger

[Brian Gaff]

The party poopers at Mullard then realised they could make some money and
started putting their transistors in opaque bodies and made the transparent
ones with a higher price tag!

They were so crude they did not often know which ones they were making,
having to test them and put them into the bin for the ones they resembled
most.

I once had a set of OC71s that had such a low capacitance they would amplify
at medium wave. My first radio microphone!

Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:19:10 -0800 (PST), Engineer
wrote:

On Dec 14, 10:23 am, "David Looser"
wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

...

Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people
back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d

I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison
page.

Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of
course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time.
An
article I have from a 1952 edition of 'Radio Constructor' refers to
"some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as
much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs
but a
few pennies each.

David.

Ian

Way, way back, I nearly cried when I fried an OC71 in an audio stage I
was trying to make!

They were down to 5 Bob by 1966 - absolute bargain, particularly when
you scraped the paint off and used them for a photo transistor. I
first discovered this by accident when an amplifier I had made hummed
when I took the hardboard cover off the back.

d

[Brian Gaff]

Well, I think it was often the usage which was incompetent much of the time.
Dusty eht units in damp rooms...
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"David Looser" wrote in message
...

"Brian Gaff" wrote

In some later television mags, when valves were being phased out, some
enterprising folk actually made valve replacements circuits using
semiconductors on a valve base!

Plug-in semiconductor equivalents for valves were produced by the major
manufacturers for many years and widely used in professional and
industrial equipment.

As I recall, one flashover and they were history.

Only if they had been incompetently designed.

David.

[David Looser]

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...


I have some old 405line projection tubes somewhere. Never run one outside
the light box with its 1inch thick lead glass concave mirror or you will
get an Xray overdose!


You mean the Mullard MW6-2?

Not specific to 405-lines of course, it was widely used on the continent in
625-line and even some French 819-line sets.

It ran with 25kV on the final anode, same as a modern colour tube, but
without the lead glass of the colour tube.

David.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:50:10 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Who recalls the RT and VC kit transistor radio called the Elegant 7,
refering to a whole seven transistors!
I built one of these, but the output transistors were faulty and after ten
minutes they would get very hot and the output would stop. Tuurn it off for
a few minutes and it did it all again. In the end the company sent us a set
of matched GET 114s and all was well!

Brian

Sorry you can't see this, but here's the original ad for the Elegant
Seven at four guineas. Also on this page is my first ever valve amp an
SET (tetrode not triode) down on the right - 3 to 4 watts, it says. It
even worked.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/seven.jpg

d

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

David Looser wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d

I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison page.

Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time. An
article I have from a 1952 edition of 'Radio Constructor' refers to "some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs but a
few pennies each.

David.


Ian




Yes, integrated circuits went through a similar curve. I have an article
form the 80s I think that bemoans the price of the NE5532 at the time.

Cheers

ian

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:19:10 -0800 (PST), Engineer
wrote:

On Dec 14, 10:23 am, "David Looser"
wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

...

Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.
http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg
Money conversion for the young and foreign:
20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.
I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.
d
I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison page.
Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time. An
article I have from a 1952 edition of 'Radio Constructor' refers to "some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs but a
few pennies each.

David.

Ian
Way, way back, I nearly cried when I fried an OC71 in an audio stage I
was trying to make!

They were down to 5 Bob by 1966 - absolute bargain, particularly when
you scraped the paint off and used them for a photo transistor. I
first discovered this by accident when an amplifier I had made hummed
when I took the hardboard cover off the back.

d

And then a few years later they filled them with some opaque goop so you
couldn't and sold clear ones as the OCP71 at a much higher price - *******s!

Cheers

ian

[Woody[_5_]]

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Its purely because of mass production of course. once the main
factories making valves got below a certain number prices
started going up, and vice versa for semiconductors of course.
I think one has to be careful if buying the Chinese copies of
valves around at the current time, as quality control is almost
non existent, though some Russian ones are made a lot better
I'm told.

Brian


Not just then, try now! The only source for most valves for audio
amps is Chinese with some Russian hanging around in the
background. The Chinese ones are something over £25 a pop for
KT66 or KT88, but I saw some Russian ones a few months back that
went on eBay ( think it was) for the thick end of a ton apiece.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

[Keith G[_2_]]

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Its purely because of mass production of course. once the main factories
making valves got below a certain number prices started going up, and vice
versa for semiconductors of course.
I think one has to be careful if buying the Chinese copies of valves
around at the current time, as quality control is almost non existent,
though some Russian ones are made a lot better I'm told.


Well, I must have been leading a *charmed life* all these years and didn't
know it!!

First, I have never had anything like the 'normal failure rate' in vinyl
that others appear to have experienced and, to top that, I have never had
any problems with a variety of Chinese valves that have passed through my
hands - that's no problems whatsoever, AFAICR...??

CF2 miniature pentode/triode input valves were indistinguishable from
Mullard EC82 (?) replacements; Shuguan EL34 and various Chinese 300B output
valves all worked and sounded perfectly fine - including Golden Dragons
branded 'Audio Note' and 'Chelmer'!

Pity I can't have the same luck with lottery tickets!

@:-)


(In fact, I'd go as far as to say that all my valve and rectifier failures
have beeen Russian and whatever JJ Tesla is!!??)

[Keith G[_2_]]

"Keith G"


CF2 miniature pentode/triode input valves were indistinguishable from
Mullard EC82 (?) replacements; Shuguan EL34 and various Chinese 300B
output valves all worked and sounded perfectly fine - including Golden
Dragons branded 'Audio Note' and 'Chelmer'!


Streuth, that reminds me it's Christmas time again - here's a pic of my
miniatures off on their Christmas Holidays a few years ago!

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Holidays.jpg


And I'm wondering now if I didn't have a Chinese rectifier valve go pop on
me....??

[Peter Wieck]

On Dec 14, 4:12*pm, "Keith G" wrote:

And I'm wondering now if I didn't have a Chinese rectifier valve go pop on
me....??

Going *POP* on you is the least of your worries. It is when they melt
into a puddle with the subsequent down-line damage.

I do not stray far from Chinese 5AR4s - and I do keep two for bench
testing purposes.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Peter Wieck wrote:
On Dec 14, 4:12 pm, "Keith G" wrote:

And I'm wondering now if I didn't have a Chinese rectifier valve go pop on
me....??

Going *POP* on you is the least of your worries. It is when they melt
into a puddle with the subsequent down-line damage.

I do not stray far from Chinese 5AR4s - and I do keep two for bench
testing purposes.

When you say 'bench testing' do you men testing the bench against molten
glass?

Cheers

ian

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Peter Wieck]

On Dec 14, 5:15*pm, Ian Bell wrote:

When you say 'bench testing' do you men testing the bench against molten
glass?

Haven't reached that much heat yet - These tubes tend to slag inside
when they fail.

I was given two Chinese 5AR4s as throw-ins with an amp I purchased -
so I keep them for testing 5AR4-based equipment. Right where I can
keep an eye on them and I do not put any good tubes at risk. I am
slowly moving over to SS 5AR4s. The cost for a good slow-start-
mimicking SS 5AR4 is about what I can pay for a NIB/NOS US-made glass
unit so far ($25 or so), but the insane prices I am seeing on eBay has
me re-thinking putting glass units in equipment that has no particular
need for authenticity. And the dozen or so such units I have in my
stock may make a nice retirement nest egg.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

Prices of transistors were dropping rapidly even then. I paid 7/6 for a
red spot (OC71 reject) in '59.

--
*Reality? Is that where the pizza delivery guy comes from?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Serge Auckland[_3_]]

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 09:19:10 -0800 (PST), Engineer
wrote:

On Dec 14, 10:23 am, "David Looser"
wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote in message

...

Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.
http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg
Money conversion for the young and foreign:
20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people
back
then.
I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.
d
I have some WW from 1940 to 46 - I'll see if I can find a camparison
page.
Valve prices didn't change much in money terms between the 1930s and
the
1960s. There might have been a slight reduction, but not a lot. Of
course
inflation was low during that time too. Transistors on the other hand
dropped dramatically in price and carried on doing so for a long time.
An
article I have from a 1952 edition of 'Radio Constructor' refers to
"some
(transistors) the writer recently obtained from the USA cost almost as
much
as a miniature receiver". Whilst these days a bag of 100 BC548s costs
but a
few pennies each.

David.

Ian
Way, way back, I nearly cried when I fried an OC71 in an audio stage I
was trying to make!

They were down to 5 Bob by 1966 - absolute bargain, particularly when
you scraped the paint off and used them for a photo transistor. I
first discovered this by accident when an amplifier I had made hummed
when I took the hardboard cover off the back.

d

And then a few years later they filled them with some opaque goop so you
couldn't and sold clear ones as the OCP71 at a much higher price -
*******s!

Cheers

ian
But if you were really mean, you could carefully hacksaw or file off the
envelope leaving the semiconductor exposed, then clean off the gloop with
meths. You then put back the now clean and scraped off cover, and wrapped a
bit of sticky tape round the join. Voila, at least ten bob saved, albeit at
the cost of three hours work!

Oh how we laughed....

S.

[Ian Iveson]

Brian said:

I think one has to be careful if buying the Chinese
copies of valves around at the current time, as quality
control is almost non existent, though some Russian ones
are made a lot better I'm told.

Chinese valves haven't all been bad, although most made in
large quantities have been.

I notice Watford Valves, possibly the biggest UK retailer,
refused to sell Chinese valves on grounds of quality up
until recently. Now they offer quite a few.

If anyone's got their finger on the pulse, I wonder how well
Chinese valves are respected these days?

Ian

[Phil Allison[_3_]]

"Brian Gaff"

I think one has to be careful if buying the Chinese copies of valves
around at the current time, as quality control is almost non existent,
though some Russian ones are made a lot better I'm told.



** Why refer to them as " Chinese copies of valves " ??

My info is that the Chinese purchased valve making equipment ( including
dies and materials) from Europe when factories there closed in the 1980s and
transported it to China.

This is so they could easily start making popular audio valves like EL34s,
6L6s and 12AX7s - for which there were no equivalent Chinese types in
production at the time.



..... Phil

[Ian Jackson]

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:50:10 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Who recalls the RT and VC kit transistor radio called the Elegant 7,
refering to a whole seven transistors!
I built one of these, but the output transistors were faulty and after ten
minutes they would get very hot and the output would stop. Tuurn it off for
a few minutes and it did it all again. In the end the company sent us a set
of matched GET 114s and all was well!

Brian

Sorry you can't see this, but here's the original ad for the Elegant
Seven at four guineas. Also on this page is my first ever valve amp an
SET (tetrode not triode) down on the right - 3 to 4 watts, it says. It
even worked.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/seven.jpg

I made an Elegant 7 for my mother-in-law. I still have it. I modified
the mains power supply so it would also trickle-charge the 9V
(non-rechargeable) battery (which works - provided you start with a new
battery, don't let it discharge too much, and don't over-do the charging
current). I remember it being not the most sensitive of radios, and
unusually noisy. [I think that some the cheap multi-layer capacitors of
the time were bad for that.] Must dig it out, see if it still works, and
maybe fix the 43 year-old noise problem.
--
Ian

[Brian Gaff]

I still have my original Rogers Cadet II amp here and it still goes. It has
had a lot of use over the years and the same valves are still in it. So they
do last.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

Prices of transistors were dropping rapidly even then. I paid 7/6 for a
red spot (OC71 reject) in '59.

--
*Reality? Is that where the pizza delivery guy comes from?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Patrick Turner]

On Dec 14, 11:49*pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d

A KT88 was 23 shillings on that price sheet in 1966.

In Oz, I don't know how much more the price was, but probably a lot.
There were no cheap online credit card sales.

I Googled up inflation since 1966 to 2008 :-

"A basket of goods and services valued at $2.3 in year 1966 , would
in year cost $24.4 in 2008,
average annual inflation rate of 5.8 per cent"

Wage average in Oz in 1966 was about $42 per week. ( over 20 pounds )
If a KT88 was say $4.20, then that'd be 1/10 of AWE. If AWE now is
$1,000 a week, then todays KT88 should be $100.
But it is usually a lot cheaper unless you buy a KT88 that has not
been used much since 1966.

An EL34 was listed at 4/3, or four shillings and threepence, mabye 8/6
in Oz or about 85cents. That was nowhere near half a week's pay, but
everyone who ever bought a new EL34 whinged long and hard about the
price, and many people would *not* replace their tubes - they just let
the amp blow up, put it in the bin, then they went to the store in
1970 and bought a nice new cool running solid state radiogram with the
extra channel and the built in AM radio.

I was a second year carpenter's apprentice in 1966, and every ****en
thing was bleeedin expensive because my wages were maybe $12 a week. I
still lived at home, and could only afford to run a 250cc BSA XC10L, a
1947 side valve POS which had cost me 10 pounds or $20 the year
before. I spent far too much on crummy british motorcycles until my
wages went up and there was lot's of overtime and then in 1972 I could
buy a nearly new 750cc BMW R/75 for $1,650. I still had another $1,700
in the bank I'd saved.

After 1972, hardly anyone I ever met had anything with vacuum tubes in
it.

I probably mixed in the wrong class of people.

Patrick Turner.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:58:52 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:50:10 GMT, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Who recalls the RT and VC kit transistor radio called the Elegant 7,
refering to a whole seven transistors!
I built one of these, but the output transistors were faulty and after ten
minutes they would get very hot and the output would stop. Tuurn it off for
a few minutes and it did it all again. In the end the company sent us a set
of matched GET 114s and all was well!

Brian

Sorry you can't see this, but here's the original ad for the Elegant
Seven at four guineas. Also on this page is my first ever valve amp an
SET (tetrode not triode) down on the right - 3 to 4 watts, it says. It
even worked.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/seven.jpg

I made an Elegant 7 for my mother-in-law. I still have it. I modified
the mains power supply so it would also trickle-charge the 9V
(non-rechargeable) battery (which works - provided you start with a new
battery, don't let it discharge too much, and don't over-do the charging
current). I remember it being not the most sensitive of radios, and
unusually noisy. [I think that some the cheap multi-layer capacitors of
the time were bad for that.] Must dig it out, see if it still works, and
maybe fix the 43 year-old noise problem.

I suspect there will be bigger problems today with the amount of
electronic garbage flying round in the air, but it would be
interesting to see how it holds up. I think I would be going for the
transistors before the caps in a noise search though.

d

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:22:03 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

Prices of transistors were dropping rapidly even then. I paid 7/6 for a
red spot (OC71 reject) in '59.

That was cheap, I remember paying something around thirty shillings
for a working one. Sinclair used to buy bags of rejects for nearly
nothing, go through them with a meter to find any that had even a tiny
amount of residual gain then sell them.

d

[Ian Jackson]

In message , Don Pearce
writes


Sinclair used to buy bags of rejects for nearly
nothing, go through them with a meter to find any that had even a tiny
amount of residual gain then sell them.

Well, I suppose that's one way of getting a knighthood, and then
elevation to the peerage!
--
Ian

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

Prices of transistors were dropping rapidly even then. I paid 7/6 for a
red spot (OC71 reject) in '59.



I had some of those too. There were also green spot rf ones. I still
have a red spot one. Must be worth a fortune now ;-)

Cheers

Ian

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
I made an Elegant 7 for my mother-in-law. I still have it. I modified
the mains power supply so it would also trickle-charge the 9V
(non-rechargeable) battery (which works - provided you start with a new
battery, don't let it discharge too much, and don't over-do the charging
current). I remember it being not the most sensitive of radios, and
unusually noisy. [I think that some the cheap multi-layer capacitors of
the time were bad for that.] Must dig it out, see if it still works, and
maybe fix the 43 year-old noise problem.

I have a 'Good Companion' built using my first week's wages in 1962. Still
works as well as ever - ie not that sensitive. Micro alloy transistors and
transfilters. The ad men were alive and well even then...

--
*TEAMWORK...means never having to take all the blame yourself *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[David Looser]

"Ian Bell" wrote

I had some of those too. There were also green spot rf ones. I still have
a red spot one. Must be worth a fortune now ;-)


If they are worth a fortune I'm sitting on a gold-mine here!

David.

[Jim Lesurf[_2_]]

In article , David Looser
wrote:
"Ian Bell" wrote

I had some of those too. There were also green spot rf ones. I still
have a red spot one. Must be worth a fortune now ;-)


If they are worth a fortune I'm sitting on a gold-mine here!

I think I have some old 'Newmarket' (if that was the name) transistors.
Maybe if these kinds of things are now 'historic relics' I should dig some
of them out... :-) IIRC they are still in the corrugated cardboard in the
boxes in which they were bought.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

[Keith G[_2_]]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...
On Dec 14, 11:49 pm, (Don Pearce) wrote:
Interesting insight into the way things were in the 60s - I've just
been reading a Wireless World from November of that year. Valves
(tubes for those across the pond) were extremely cheap. And
transistors cost pretty much the same, which is why we treated them
with kid gloves and thermal shunts when soldering them into circuits.

http://www.soundthoughts.co.uk/look/valves.jpg

Money conversion for the young and foreign:

20 shillings to the pound, 12 pence to the shilling. A price given as
5/6 meant five shillings and six pence. So an ECC84 at 6/6 is 32.5
pence in today's money. A 28012 transistor, by contrast at 140/- is
seven pounds - getting on for half the weekly wage of some people back
then.

I may post some ads for complete equipment later, just to make you
cry.

d

A KT88 was 23 shillings on that price sheet in 1966.

In Oz, I don't know how much more the price was, but probably a lot.
There were no cheap online credit card sales.

I Googled up inflation since 1966 to 2008 :-

"A basket of goods and services valued at $2.3 in year 1966 , would
in year cost $24.4 in 2008,
average annual inflation rate of 5.8 per cent"

Wage average in Oz in 1966 was about $42 per week. ( over 20 pounds )
If a KT88 was say $4.20, then that'd be 1/10 of AWE. If AWE now is
$1,000 a week, then todays KT88 should be $100.
But it is usually a lot cheaper unless you buy a KT88 that has not
been used much since 1966.

An EL34 was listed at 4/3, or four shillings and threepence, mabye 8/6
in Oz or about 85cents. That was nowhere near half a week's pay, but
everyone who ever bought a new EL34 whinged long and hard about the
price,


Australians, not 'Poms' *whingeing*...??

(Now, why am I so not surprised to hear that? :-)


and many people would *not* replace their tubes - they just let
the amp blow up, put it in the bin, then they went to the store in
1970 and bought a nice new cool running solid state radiogram with the
extra channel and the built in AM radio.

I was a second year carpenter's apprentice in 1966, and every ****en
thing was bleeedin expensive because my wages were maybe $12 a week. I
still lived at home, and could only afford to run a 250cc BSA XC10L, a
1947 side valve POS which had cost me 10 pounds or $20 the year
before. I spent far too much on crummy british motorcycles until my
wages went up and there was lot's of overtime and then in 1972 I could
buy a nearly new 750cc BMW R/75 for $1,650. I still had another $1,700
in the bank I'd saved.



OK, that's all good - now also crosspost to uk.rec.motorcycles and, at a
thousand posts a day last time I looked, this troll should really *fly*...