[Andre Jute[_2_]]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ce-copenhagen/

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.

[Bill Sornson[_2_]]

Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ce-copenhagen/

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question was on
Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little get-together?"
S.

[Bill Sornson[_2_]]

Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ce-copenhagen/

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question was on
Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...ar-wedges.html

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Dec 7, 10:25*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ncels-personal....

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question was on
Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...nge-confe/6736...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little feet
at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos and jets
going there. They need a new image to promote the message. The earth
IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho. Could be man, could be
a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and the repub boobs yell, get
peoples attention over nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids are
screwed. But we are screwed by the likes of the palins, rush's, becks,
hannitys of the world anyway. GOD GUNS GAYS...what else is there?

[Ben C]

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ncels-personal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question was on
Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...nge-confe/6736...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little feet
at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos and jets
going there. They need a new image to promote the message. The earth
IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho. Could be man, could be
a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and the repub boobs yell, get
peoples attention over nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids are
screwed.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time pointlessly
cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was their
fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans. It's
possible their energies might have been better directed elsewhere.

[Tim McNamara]

In article
,
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

On Dec 7, 10:25*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-cancels-perso
nal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand
the science before he let them use him as a front man -- not
that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad
time all over again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question was
on Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...ange-confe/673
6...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little
feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos and
jets going there. They need a new image to promote the message. The
earth IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho. Could be man,
could be a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and the repub boobs yell,
get peoples attention over nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids
are screwed. But we are screwed by the likes of the palins, rush's,
becks, hannitys of the world anyway. GOD GUNS GAYS...what else is
there?

Back in 1980 the necons discovered that the key to controlling the
public discourse is to be loud and persistent. Being right has nothing
to do with it. The neocon commitment is to self-serving agenda, not to
truth. God, guns and gays are just the wedge issues to keep the sheeple
in line supporting an agenda that slowly destroys their lives.

In Andre and Bill we have great examples of this stupidity in action;
and, like their counterparts everywhere, they get enough attention from
it to keep doing it over and over, every day. They're trolls and they
get well-fed.

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-cancels-pers
onal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand
the science before he let them use him as a front man -- not
that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad
time all over again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...hange-confe/67
36...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little
feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos
and jets going there. They need a new image to promote the message.
The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho. Could be
man, could be a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and the repub boobs
yell, get peoples attention over nonsense, then our kids and our
kids kids are screwed.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time pointlessly
cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was their
fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans. It's
possible their energies might have been better directed elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Dec 8, 1:58*pm, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:





Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ncels-personal....

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question was on
Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...nge-confe/6736...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little feet
at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos and jets
going there. They need a new image to promote the message.

They lied about the science, they invented data and contorted data for
political purposes, they ruined the careers of honest scientists who
dared dissent from their lies, above all they lied and lied and lied
about global warming. But you say all that is required is a new
presentation!

Actually, Peter, without the hockey stick (what is what these
Climategate people lied into existence) there is no global warming and
thus no need to search for a cause nor a remedy. The world's leaders
are poncing about in Nopenhagen for no good reason whatsoever.

The earth
IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho.

Of course the world is getting warmer. And of course everyone with
brains knows why. We're coming out of an ice age, In a few hundred
years we might again reach the temperatures a 1000 years ago, when the
earth was warmer than it is now for several centuries on end. We're
just in the middle of a natural uptrend, with variations around the
mean. The Climategate liars (who I remind you are absolutely central
to the global warming scam) merely with statistical tricks made one
natural variation in the 1990s seem extraordinary. It wasn't, it was
just a lie.

Could be man,

No, it can't be, at least not by the mechanism of CO2. Regardless of
the shouting and the intimidation from the global warming lobby, CO2
increases *follow* temperature increase, and can therefore not be the
cause of temperature increase.

could be
a natural swing BUT if it IS man,

It isn't. The only manmade global warming is an artifact of statiscal
crookery by Jones, Mann, Briffa and others, named in the Wegman Report
to the Senate years ago already. You may remember I've been saying so
all along. Now that lying scum have confessed to their crimes in the
Climategate Papers.

and the repub boobs yell,

But they turned out to be right all along, and you've been a fool for
two decades, hanging entranced on the lips of gross liars, bowing low
before their "science". But still you call the guys who visibly have
more brains and understanding of science than you "boobs"? God love
Peter, because no one else can love such an obstinate fool.

get
peoples attention over nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids are
screwed.

Yawn. I'm so bored with bikies who fancy themselves Old Testament
prophets. There is no proof of any of that gloomy crap. It has been up
to 6 degrees Celsius warmer for centuries and millennia during the
last 15,000 years, without any evidence of either man's influence or
CO2 influence. That should be enough evidence even for the
impresionable conformists one finds in cycling.

But we are screwed by the likes of the palins, rush's, becks,
hannitys of the world anyway. GOD GUNS GAYS...what else is there?

You mean God shoots gays? I wonder if the NRA recruiters know this
yet. Holy ****! What a coup. "I signed up God the Father for a
lifetime membership. You can go now, Charlton, thanks for your help
but we got Da Boss to do your bit now."

Andre Jute
Don't use electricity to cook. Start a bushfire, eat crispy creatures
cooked the natural way.

[Ben C]

On 2009-12-08, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-cancels-pers
onal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand
the science before he let them use him as a front man -- not
that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad
time all over again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...hange-confe/67
36...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little
feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos
and jets going there. They need a new image to promote the message.
The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho. Could be
man, could be a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and the repub boobs
yell, get peoples attention over nonsense, then our kids and our
kids kids are screwed.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time pointlessly
cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was their
fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans. It's
possible their energies might have been better directed elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Not the intended moral of the story. It _is_ sensible to keep an eye on
sea-levels and make sure you're prepared for them going up.

But it's foolish to think you can prevent them going up, and extremely
foolish to think you can prevent them going up by cutting CO2.

[Bill Sornson[_2_]]

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 09:27:15 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-cancels-pers
onal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand
the science before he let them use him as a front man -- not
that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad
time all over again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...hange-confe/67
36...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little
feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos
and jets going there. They need a new image to promote the message.
The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho. Could be
man, could be a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and the repub boobs
yell, get peoples attention over nonsense, then our kids and our
kids kids are screwed.

Nice rant. Now try actually /saying something/.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time pointlessly
cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was their
fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans. It's
possible their energies might have been better directed elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Ah, the siren call of despots: "be scared of the straw man and give me
the power to rule your lives."

Bingo.

[Ben C]

On 2009-12-08, Andre Jute wrote:
[...]
It isn't. The only manmade global warming is an artifact of statiscal
crookery by Jones, Mann, Briffa and others, named in the Wegman Report
to the Senate years ago already.

That isn't strictly speaking the only manmade warming, or even the only
Mann-made warming.

There are also the various ways the hockey stick was subsequently
reinstated: cherry-picking trees in Sibera and grafting the temperature
record onto the reconstruction before smoothing to make the
reconstruction point up at the end ("hide the decline") are two that
have been analyzed recently.

Then there's the less subtle approach we see in their recently released
code of just adding an arbitrary fudge factor:

valadj=[0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,-0.1,-0.25,-0.3,0.,-0.1,0.3,0.8,1.2,1.7,2.5,2.6,2.6,
2.6,2.6,2.6]*0.75 ; fudge factor

Now we don't know for sure what this means yet, but it is interpolated
over a time series from 1400 to the present and looks suspiciously like
it's meant to squash the MWP and make the 20th C temps kick upwards
alarmingly.

I guess they thought why are we bothering with all this clever
statistical crookery when it's so much easier to just make up some
numbers, add them on, delete the raw data and not release the code.

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Dec 8, 5:27*pm, Ben C wrote:
On 2009-12-08, Andre Jute wrote:
[...]

It isn't. The only manmade global warming is an artifact of statiscal
crookery by Jones, Mann, Briffa and others, named in the Wegman Report
to the Senate years ago already.

That isn't strictly speaking the only manmade warming, or even the only
Mann-made warming.

There are also the various ways the hockey stick was subsequently
reinstated: cherry-picking trees in Sibera and grafting the temperature
record onto the reconstruction before smoothing to make the
reconstruction point up at the end ("hide the decline") are two that
have been analyzed recently.

Then there's the less subtle approach we see in their recently released
code of just adding an arbitrary fudge factor:

* * valadj=[0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,-0.1,-0.25,-0.3,0.,-0.1,0.3,0.8,1.2,1.7,2.5,2.6,2.6,
* * * 2.6,2.6,2.6]*0.75 * * * * ; fudge factor

Now we don't know for sure what this means yet, but it is interpolated
over a time series from 1400 to the present and looks suspiciously like
it's meant to squash the MWP and make the 20th C temps kick upwards
alarmingly.

It looks like selected, named data points were flattened by one
quarter their height.

I guess they thought why are we bothering with all this clever
statistical crookery when it's so much easier to just make up some
numbers, add them on, delete the raw data and not release the code.

There's a lesson in arrogance here. These people must once have been
scientists with stars in their eyes and truth in their hearts. Twenty
years of arrogance have done them in by making crookery the norm to
such an extent that they forgot to hide it.

It is amazing that so large a conspiracy took so long to expose...

Andre Jute
A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation. --H.H.Munro
("Saki")(1870-1916)

This much? No, more, more. We work in paleoclimatology, man. More,
more, much more!

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...gore-cancels-p
ers onal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the
Climategate revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort
to understand the science before he let them use him as a
front man -- not that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front
man.

Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging
chad time all over again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...e-change-confe
/67 36...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be
lost. Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their
little feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how
many limos and jets going there. They need a new image to
promote the message. The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really
knows why tho. Could be man, could be a natural swing BUT if it
IS man, and the repub boobs yell, get peoples attention over
nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids are screwed.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time
pointlessly cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit
higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was
their fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans.
It's possible their energies might have been better directed
elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Not the intended moral of the story. It _is_ sensible to keep an eye
on sea-levels and make sure you're prepared for them going up.

But it's foolish to think you can prevent them going up, and
extremely foolish to think you can prevent them going up by cutting
CO2.

If you're responsible for the cause and can take responsibility for
changing that- to the benefit of your children, grandchildren,
great-grandchildren, etc. then you'd be nucking futz not to do it.
Truly the sins of the fathers are visited upon their children in this
case.

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
flipper wrote:

On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 09:27:15 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...gore-cancels-p
ers onal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the
Climategate revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort
to understand the science before he let them use him as a
front man -- not that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front
man.

Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging
chad time all over again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...e-change-confe
/67 36...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be
lost. Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their
little feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how
many limos and jets going there. They need a new image to
promote the message. The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really
knows why tho. Could be man, could be a natural swing BUT if it
IS man, and the repub boobs yell, get peoples attention over
nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids are screwed.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time
pointlessly cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit
higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was
their fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans.
It's possible their energies might have been better directed
elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Ah, the siren call of despots: "be scared of the straw man and give
me the power to rule your lives."

Problem is, this "straw man" is verified by factual data and observation
with many independent sources corroborating. That is to say, it's not a
straw man.

Here's today's data:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8400905.stm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1206162955.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1207165252.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1206183705.htm

Enjoy!

[AMuzi]

Ben C wrote:
On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ncels-personal...
Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.
Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.
Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question was on
Climategate.
Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.
Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...nge-confe/6736...
These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little feet
at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos and jets
going there. They need a new image to promote the message. The earth
IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho. Could be man, could be
a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and the repub boobs yell, get
peoples attention over nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids are
screwed.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time pointlessly
cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was their
fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans. It's
possible their energies might have been better directed elsewhere.

bingo.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-cancels-pers
onal...
Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand
the science before he let them use him as a front man -- not
that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.
Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad
time all over again.
Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate.
Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.
Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...hange-confe/67
36...
These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little
feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos
and jets going there. They need a new image to promote the message.
The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho. Could be
man, could be a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and the repub boobs
yell, get peoples attention over nonsense, then our kids and our
kids kids are screwed.
We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time pointlessly
cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was their
fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans. It's
possible their energies might have been better directed elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Doing nothing has a certain charm.
Are you advocating mass human sacrifice?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ore-cancels-pe
rs onal... Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the
Climategate revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to
understand the science before he let them use him as a front
man -- not that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.
Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad
time all over again.
Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate. Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon
footprint' of this little get-together?" S.
Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...-change-confe/
67 36...
These people are being idiots and the message is going to be
lost. Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their
little feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many
limos and jets going there. They need a new image to promote the
message. The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why
tho. Could be man, could be a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and
the repub boobs yell, get peoples attention over nonsense, then
our kids and our kids kids are screwed.
We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time
pointlessly cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit
higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was
their fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans.
It's possible their energies might have been better directed
elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Doing nothing has a certain charm. Are you advocating mass human
sacrifice?

Isn't sacrifice for the future what made the Greatest Generation great?
Unfortunately the current of American power brokers are the Greediest
Generation. "I got mine, everybody else can go jump."

[Michael Press]

In article
,
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

The earth
IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho.

Since the recession of the North America, Euorpe, and
Siberia ice sheets the warmest climate period was 7000
years ago. Since then the temperature trend is to
cooler temperatures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

--
Michael Press

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

Ben C wrote:
On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...re-cancels-per
sonal... Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the
Climategate revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to
understand the science before he let them use him as a front
man -- not that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front man. Andre
Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time
all over again.
Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate. Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon
footprint' of this little get-together?" S.
Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...change-confe/6
736...
These people are being idiots and the message is going to be lost.
Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their little
feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many limos
and jets going there. They need a new image to promote the
message. The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho.
Could be man, could be a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and the
repub boobs yell, get peoples attention over nonsense, then our
kids and our kids kids are screwed.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time
pointlessly cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was their
fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans. It's
possible their energies might have been better directed elsewhere.

bingo.

Or not.

[Olafur Gunnlaugsson]

Þann 04/12/2009 19:13, Andre Jute skrifaði:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ce-copenhagen/

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.


I am reasonably sure that at some point in time this newsgroup focused
on discussing audio products based on thermionic vales, but I might be
wrong there.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:26:20 +0000, Olafur Gunnlaugsson
wrote:

Þann 04/12/2009 19:13, Andre Jute skrifaði:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ce-copenhagen/

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.


I am reasonably sure that at some point in time this newsgroup focused
on discussing audio products based on thermionic vales, but I might be
wrong there.


I seem to remember that time, but it has long gone. Thermionic valves
produce far too much heat to discuss here.

d

[Bill Sornson[_2_]]

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 17:53:52 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

In article ,
flipper wrote:

On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 09:27:15 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...gore-cancels-p
ers onal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the
Climategate revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort
to understand the science before he let them use him as a
front man -- not that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front
man.

Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging
chad time all over again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...e-change-confe
/67 36...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be
lost. Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their
little feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how
many limos and jets going there. They need a new image to
promote the message. The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really
knows why tho. Could be man, could be a natural swing BUT if it
IS man, and the repub boobs yell, get peoples attention over
nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids are screwed.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time
pointlessly cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit
higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was
their fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans.
It's possible their energies might have been better directed
elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Ah, the siren call of despots: "be scared of the straw man and give
me the power to rule your lives."

Problem is, this "straw man" is verified by factual data and
observation

'Fraid not. In fact, nothing has been 'verified'.

with many independent sources corroborating.

'Corroborating' what?

That is to say, it's not a
straw man.

Sorry, but it is.


Here's today's data:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8400905.stm

This is a typical 'word game' flim flam. Temperatures have increased
over the last century and a half because the little ice age ended and
then, for the last decade, remained stable or slightly declined (as
they did mid 20'th century), depending on how one smoothes and
'interprets' the data. So, of course, everything in the 'not warming'
recent decade will be (on average) warmer than the preceding despite
the lack of warming being a direct contradiction of the climate
models. And if there is never one jot more of warming for the next
1,000 years they, too, will be (on average) 'warmer' than the
preceding century and a half..

The observation is exactly the opposite of what you think because the
wording is intended to keep you scared of the strawman despite the
data being in conflict with the strawman.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1206162955.htm

This one is a cutie. Pay attention to what 'the problem' was. The
current model of how it's all supposed to work *failed* to match the
historical record during that period so they had to come up with 'more
stuff' to supposedly explain it.

Now, on the surface that seems reasonable *but* it means that every
previous explanation made where the AGW proponents claimed the model
'worked', and matched the record, actually do *not* work. Rather than
a 'corroboration' it's actually another contradiction.

Here's why: if your model without the 'added stuff' supposedly
'matches' the historical record 'here' but you need 'added stuff' to
make it work 'there' then your model doesn't work because it should
explain *all* the instances without needing to be twiddled around each
time.

Btw, there's no evidence whatsoever that the 'extra stuff' is valid.
That's just all they could think of when the model failed, especially
since the model is a religious 'given' article of faith.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1207165252.htm

Sorry, but that is just speculation and even the IPCC doesn't agree.
Which points out, again, that the models, as currently formulated,
don't work. I.E. If there was a working model you wouldn't be getting
all these disparate 'predictions'.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1206183705.htm

Oh, by all means, let's 'worry' about nitrogen too. URGENTLY because
they haven't a clue about it.

That one is positively classic. They haven't the slightest idea what
the 'consequences' might be but you know man. We're 'doing something'
so it *must* be catastrophic and we'll obviously need an even more
powerful despot to dictate this aspect of your life too.

That's pretty much how the 'global warming' thing started too. There
simply *must* be something 'wrong' with man using 'oil' so go find
something.

Enjoy!

Today's ditty:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...radiation.html

[Bill Sornson[_2_]]

flipper wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:36:09 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ore-cancels-pe
rs onal... Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the
Climategate revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to
understand the science before he let them use him as a front
man -- not that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.
Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad
time all over again.
Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate. Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon
footprint' of this little get-together?" S.
Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...-change-confe/
67 36...
These people are being idiots and the message is going to be
lost. Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their
little feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how many
limos and jets going there. They need a new image to promote the
message. The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why
tho. Could be man, could be a natural swing BUT if it IS man, and
the repub boobs yell, get peoples attention over nonsense, then
our kids and our kids kids are screwed.
We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time
pointlessly cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit
higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was
their fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans.
It's possible their energies might have been better directed
elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Doing nothing has a certain charm. Are you advocating mass human
sacrifice?

Isn't sacrifice for the future what made the Greatest Generation
great? Unfortunately the current of American power brokers are the
Greediest Generation. "I got mine, everybody else can go jump."

The 'greatest generation' sacrificed because there was a clear and
present danger, not because some egotistical pseudo science goons
falsified data to manufacture a doomsday fantasy.

Funny (sad) thing is, the GWAs literally don't discern a distinction between
the two "causes".

BS (record low temps all over western US today)

[Andre Jute[_2_]]

On Dec 9, 4:26*pm, Olafur Gunnlaugsson wrote:
Þann 04/12/2009 19:13, Andre Jute skrifaði:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ncels-personal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the Climategate
revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort to understand the
science before he let them use him as a front man -- not that he
wasn't a tremendously *big* front man.

Andre Jute
I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging chad time all over
again.

I am reasonably sure that at some point in time this newsgroup focused
on discussing audio products based on thermionic vales, but I might be
wrong there.

Have you no shame, sir, putting out all that heat just for purity of
sound?
I've long since broken up my receiving tube amps... Listening now to a
single-chanel 417A amp at about a quarter watt max through a modded
Lowther Fidelio type horn. Circuit schematic on my site as T68,
photographic speaker build sheet too. Feeling virtuous.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information for the tube audio
constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site containing vital gems of
wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

[Michael Press]

In article ,
flipper wrote:

On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:37:24 -0800, Michael Press
wrote:

In article
,
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

The earth
IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho.

Since the recession of the North America, Euorpe, and
Siberia ice sheets the warmest climate period was 7000
years ago. Since then the temperature trend is to
cooler temperatures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

Aw, gee. Now, you see, you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed
to chop the data off at a propitious point so it looks 'bad'. Like,
say, cut it off at 1850, around the end of the little ice age, so it's
'all up'.

I am having trouble with that; you will have to do the work.
Here, just chop off right halves of these graphs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ice-core-isotope.png

--
Michael Press

[[email protected]]

On Dec 9, 2:12*am, flipper wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:37:24 -0800, Michael Press
wrote:

In article
,
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

The earth
IS getting warmer, nobody really knows why tho.

Since the recession of the North America, Euorpe, and
Siberia ice sheets the warmest climate period was 7000
years ago. Since then the temperature trend is to
cooler temperatures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

Aw, gee. Now, you see, you're not supposed to do that. You're supposed
to chop the data off at a propitious point so it looks 'bad'. Like,
say, cut it off at 1850, around the end of the little ice age, so it's
'all up'.

Look at the scale on the x-axis. It's in thousands of years.
The smoothing on that plot is such that it cannot resolve
the last 150 years, which is the only time scale on which
one expects to find a signature of anthropogenic global
warming. It's a problem of scale - you don't use this map

http://www.onlineatlas.us/interstate-highways.htm

to tell whether the exit that leads to my house is a right exit,
left exit, or cloverleaf.

If you look just a bit farther down the page there is a plot
labeled "Reconstructed Temperature"

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...Comparison.png

which is the one to look at if you are interested in
short time scale variations, not glacial/interglacial
cycles. This is the plot that the conspiracy theorists
think was made by the Cigarette Smoking Man from
the X-Files.

Ben

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
flipper wrote:

On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:36:09 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25 am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...3/gore-cancels
-pe rs onal... Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation"
at the Climategate revelations. Yup. He should have made an
effort to understand the science before he let them use him
as a front man -- not that he wasn't a tremendously *big*
front man. Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels.
It's hanging chad time all over again.
Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one
question was on Climategate. Bill "anyone calculate the
'carbon footprint' of this little get-together?" S.
Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...ate-change-con
fe/ 67 36...
These people are being idiots and the message is going to be
lost. Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp
their little feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like
how many limos and jets going there. They need a new image to
promote the message. The earth IS getting warmer, nobody
really knows why tho. Could be man, could be a natural swing
BUT if it IS man, and the repub boobs yell, get peoples
attention over nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids are
screwed.
We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time
pointlessly cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit
higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was
their fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more
humans. It's possible their energies might have been better
directed elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Doing nothing has a certain charm. Are you advocating mass human
sacrifice?

Isn't sacrifice for the future what made the Greatest Generation
great? Unfortunately the current of American power brokers are the
Greediest Generation. "I got mine, everybody else can go jump."

The 'greatest generation' sacrificed because there was a clear and
present danger, not because some egotistical pseudo science goons
falsified data to manufacture a doomsday fantasy.

Oops, your tinfoil hat fell off again.

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
flipper wrote:

Blah de blah de blah

Repetition != truth. But you've got truthiness down pat, so good luck
with that.

[Neil Brooks]

On Dec 9, 9:40*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:

BS (record low temps all over western US today)

Without taking a particular position on the entire GCC issue, I CAN
take a clear and easy position on Sornson:

You need a course in logic ... badly.

[Chalo]

Tim McNamara wrote:

*flipper wrote:
Blah de blah de blah

Repetition != truth. *But you've got truthiness down pat, so good luck
with that.

Refresher on what we are dealing with he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism

Conservatives seem to believe that truth and fact can be subverted as
easily as the political process or free elections. Hence their
denigration of "junk science" when they have nothing that deserves the
name of science (physical, social, or otherwise) to support their
views.

It's true that you can get idiots to buy into your favorite lies, if
you have enough financing to push your message through their feeding
tubes. But idiots never went in for truth and fact anyway.

Chalo

[Tim McNamara]

http://www.igbp.kva.se/

[Ben C]

On 2009-12-10, Tim McNamara wrote:
http://www.igbp.kva.se/

I like it-- much easier to invent a bogus index and plot graphs of that
shooting up alarmingly than have to go to all that trouble lying with
temperature graphs.

Notice how CO2 level is actually factored into the index (but CO2 level
is not a measure of "climate change" by any stretch of the
imagination).

By the way the "global average temperature" graph on that page looks
suspicious. The basic shape is the same as the UAH data, but with an
offset of almost 0.2C added from around 2003, making 2005 appear warmer
than 1998.

[Tim McNamara]

Bits and bobs for today:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1210111156.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1209113840.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1210111154.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1209093117.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1203101422.htm

3M's successful efforts at reducing greenhouse gas emissions without
crippling their competitiveness or productivity:

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...ability/manage
ment/climate-change-energy/

[bicycle_disciple]

On Dec 8, 6:53*pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,





*flipper wrote:
On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 09:27:15 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

In article ,
Ben C wrote:

On 2009-12-08, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
On Dec 7, 10:25*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...gore-cancels-p
ers onal...

Apparently Al Bore feels "great irritation" at the
Climategate revelations. Yup. He should have made an effort
to understand the science before he let them use him as a
front man -- not that he wasn't a tremendously *big* front
man.

Andre Jute I know how the poor bugger feels. It's hanging
chad time all over again.

Funny how he gave an interview this week and not one question
was on Climategate.

Bill "anyone calculate the 'carbon footprint' of this little
get-together?" S.

Ask and ye shall be galled:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/cop...e-change-confe
/67 36...

These people are being idiots and the message is going to be
lost. Many neocons are going to be able to shout and stamp their
little feet at the outrageous, but secondary, items like how
many limos and jets going there. They need a new image to
promote the message. The earth IS getting warmer, nobody really
knows why tho. Could be man, could be a natural swing BUT if it
IS man, and the repub boobs yell, get peoples attention over
nonsense, then our kids and our kids kids are screwed.

We're also screwed if it isn't man and we waste our time
pointlessly cutting CO2 instead of building the dykes a bit
higher.

The Aztecs assumed the climate change that wiped them out was
their fault and the obvious solution was to sacrifice more humans.
It's possible their energies might have been better directed
elsewhere.

Ah, the siren call of do-nothingism.

Ah, the siren call of despots: "be scared of the straw man and give
me the power to rule your lives."

Problem is, this "straw man" is verified by factual data and observation
with many independent sources corroborating. *That is to say, it's not a
straw man.

Here's today's data:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8400905.stm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1206162955.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1207165252.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1206183705.htm

Enjoy!

Didn't NASA release something a while back saying this global warming
is a planetary phenomenon? Mars and Jupiter is also facing warming,
which probably means there is an appreciable component attributable to
activity in the sun.


-Ron
http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com

[Tim McNamara]

In article
,
bicycle_disciple wrote:

Didn't NASA release something a while back saying this global warming
is a planetary phenomenon? Mars and Jupiter is also facing warming,
which probably means there is an appreciable component attributable to
activity in the sun.

Not that I've been able to find. If you've got a link to a NASA press
release or report, then please cite it.

IIRC when that first came out from the right wing blogosphere it was
about the time that Martian spring was beginning for the Mars rover
missions and it was, for them, warming up as a result of normal seasonal
variation.

If you bothered to check around, you'd find that the total solar
irradiance (the energy output of the Sun) has actually been decreasing
over the past 10 years consistent with its regular cycle; it is
currently at or about its normal minima and should be starting to
increase to its maxima which should be in about 6 years or so.

The end result of this is that the Earth has been warming up while the
Sun has been cooling down. Hmmm. The other "saving grace" is air
pollution reducing the infrared radiation reaching the Earth,
particularly high atmosphere microparticulates which case huge infrared
shadows. Particulates come from both man-made and natural sources (of
the latter, especially volcanoes which put large amounts of particulates
into the air and result in a net cooling effect for a year or two after
large eruptions).

You know where this is going, right? We'll end up seeding the upper
atmosphere with particulates- at taxpayer expense- to reduce global
warming because business and individuals can't be bothered to reduce
their GHG emissions. What can go wrong with that?

What else would one expect from a species stupid enough to deliberately
irradiate its own planet- at all, let alone more than once? And to
stockpile enough nuclear weapons to kill everybody a few dozen times on
the pretense that this makes them safer? Cave men with big shiny toys
is all we still are.

[AMuzi]

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article
,
bicycle_disciple wrote:

Didn't NASA release something a while back saying this global warming
is a planetary phenomenon? Mars and Jupiter is also facing warming,
which probably means there is an appreciable component attributable to
activity in the sun.

Not that I've been able to find. If you've got a link to a NASA press
release or report, then please cite it.

IIRC when that first came out from the right wing blogosphere it was
about the time that Martian spring was beginning for the Mars rover
missions and it was, for them, warming up as a result of normal seasonal
variation.

If you bothered to check around, you'd find that the total solar
irradiance (the energy output of the Sun) has actually been decreasing
over the past 10 years consistent with its regular cycle; it is
currently at or about its normal minima and should be starting to
increase to its maxima which should be in about 6 years or so.

The end result of this is that the Earth has been warming up while the
Sun has been cooling down. Hmmm. The other "saving grace" is air
pollution reducing the infrared radiation reaching the Earth,
particularly high atmosphere microparticulates which case huge infrared
shadows. Particulates come from both man-made and natural sources (of
the latter, especially volcanoes which put large amounts of particulates
into the air and result in a net cooling effect for a year or two after
large eruptions).

You know where this is going, right? We'll end up seeding the upper
atmosphere with particulates- at taxpayer expense- to reduce global
warming because business and individuals can't be bothered to reduce
their GHG emissions. What can go wrong with that?

What else would one expect from a species stupid enough to deliberately
irradiate its own planet- at all, let alone more than once? And to
stockpile enough nuclear weapons to kill everybody a few dozen times on
the pretense that this makes them safer? Cave men with big shiny toys
is all we still are.

Old news from NASA about martian ice:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2..._southpole.htm

Trend:
http://www.mars-ice.org/_more/about/spcrocus.php

Regarding nuclear weapons I must have missed the news that
the Saudi peninsula and Persia are glowing masses of glass.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
* Still Just Me * wrote:

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:58:10 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

3M's successful efforts at reducing greenhouse gas emissions without
crippling their competitiveness or productivity:

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3...tainability/ma
nage ment/climate-change-energy/

Must be made up. It's been stated quite clearly that there's no way
to do this - therefore the evidence must be false.

And more updates:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1209194242.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1206184749.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1210111156.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1211131605.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1210173613.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1209113840.htm

Enjoy!

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article
,
bicycle_disciple wrote:

Didn't NASA release something a while back saying this global
warming is a planetary phenomenon? Mars and Jupiter is also facing
warming, which probably means there is an appreciable component
attributable to activity in the sun.

Not that I've been able to find. If you've got a link to a NASA
press release or report, then please cite it.

IIRC when that first came out from the right wing blogosphere it
was about the time that Martian spring was beginning for the Mars
rover missions and it was, for them, warming up as a result of
normal seasonal variation.

If you bothered to check around, you'd find that the total solar
irradiance (the energy output of the Sun) has actually been
decreasing over the past 10 years consistent with its regular
cycle; it is currently at or about its normal minima and should be
starting to increase to its maxima which should be in about 6 years
or so.

The end result of this is that the Earth has been warming up while
the Sun has been cooling down. Hmmm. The other "saving grace" is
air pollution reducing the infrared radiation reaching the Earth,
particularly high atmosphere microparticulates which case huge
infrared shadows. Particulates come from both man-made and natural
sources (of the latter, especially volcanoes which put large
amounts of particulates into the air and result in a net cooling
effect for a year or two after large eruptions).

You know where this is going, right? We'll end up seeding the
upper atmosphere with particulates- at taxpayer expense- to reduce
global warming because business and individuals can't be bothered
to reduce their GHG emissions. What can go wrong with that?

What else would one expect from a species stupid enough to
deliberately irradiate its own planet- at all, let alone more than
once? And to stockpile enough nuclear weapons to kill everybody a
few dozen times on the pretense that this makes them safer? Cave
men with big shiny toys is all we still are.

Old news from NASA about martian ice:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2..._southpole.htm

Trend: http://www.mars-ice.org/_more/about/spcrocus.php

Thanks for those. From the first:

"Like Earth, Mars has seasons that cause its polar caps to wax and wane.
'It's late spring at the south pole of Mars,' says planetary scientist
Dave Smith of the Goddard Space Flight Center. 'The polar cap is
receding because the springtime sun is shining on it.'"

The second shows no long-term warming trend.

So, like I said.

Regarding nuclear weapons I must have missed the news that the Saudi
peninsula and Persia are glowing masses of glass.

There's no reason to pretend to be an idiot, Andy.

[Tim McNamara]

In article ,
Tim McNamara wrote:

In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article

,
bicycle_disciple wrote:

Didn't NASA release something a while back saying this global
warming is a planetary phenomenon? Mars and Jupiter is also
facing warming, which probably means there is an appreciable
component attributable to activity in the sun.

Not that I've been able to find. If you've got a link to a NASA
press release or report, then please cite it.

IIRC when that first came out from the right wing blogosphere it
was about the time that Martian spring was beginning for the Mars
rover missions and it was, for them, warming up as a result of
normal seasonal variation.

If you bothered to check around, you'd find that the total solar
irradiance (the energy output of the Sun) has actually been
decreasing over the past 10 years consistent with its regular
cycle; it is currently at or about its normal minima and should
be starting to increase to its maxima which should be in about 6
years or so.

The end result of this is that the Earth has been warming up
while the Sun has been cooling down. Hmmm. The other "saving
grace" is air pollution reducing the infrared radiation reaching
the Earth, particularly high atmosphere microparticulates which
case huge infrared shadows. Particulates come from both man-made
and natural sources (of the latter, especially volcanoes which
put large amounts of particulates into the air and result in a
net cooling effect for a year or two after large eruptions).

You know where this is going, right? We'll end up seeding the
upper atmosphere with particulates- at taxpayer expense- to
reduce global warming because business and individuals can't be
bothered to reduce their GHG emissions. What can go wrong with
that?

What else would one expect from a species stupid enough to
deliberately irradiate its own planet- at all, let alone more
than once? And to stockpile enough nuclear weapons to kill
everybody a few dozen times on the pretense that this makes them
safer? Cave men with big shiny toys is all we still are.

Old news from NASA about martian ice:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2..._southpole.htm

Trend: http://www.mars-ice.org/_more/about/spcrocus.php

Thanks for those. From the first:

"Like Earth, Mars has seasons that cause its polar caps to wax and
wane. 'It's late spring at the south pole of Mars,' says planetary
scientist Dave Smith of the Goddard Space Flight Center. 'The polar
cap is receding because the springtime sun is shining on it.'"

The second shows no long-term warming trend.

So, like I said.

Regarding nuclear weapons I must have missed the news that the
Saudi peninsula and Persia are glowing masses of glass.

There's no reason to pretend to be an idiot, Andy.

I apologize for that, it was just rude and uncalled for.

[AMuzi]

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
Tim McNamara wrote:

In article ,
AMuzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article

,
bicycle_disciple wrote:

Didn't NASA release something a while back saying this global
warming is a planetary phenomenon? Mars and Jupiter is also
facing warming, which probably means there is an appreciable
component attributable to activity in the sun.
Not that I've been able to find. If you've got a link to a NASA
press release or report, then please cite it.

IIRC when that first came out from the right wing blogosphere it
was about the time that Martian spring was beginning for the Mars
rover missions and it was, for them, warming up as a result of
normal seasonal variation.

If you bothered to check around, you'd find that the total solar
irradiance (the energy output of the Sun) has actually been
decreasing over the past 10 years consistent with its regular
cycle; it is currently at or about its normal minima and should
be starting to increase to its maxima which should be in about 6
years or so.

The end result of this is that the Earth has been warming up
while the Sun has been cooling down. Hmmm. The other "saving
grace" is air pollution reducing the infrared radiation reaching
the Earth, particularly high atmosphere microparticulates which
case huge infrared shadows. Particulates come from both man-made
and natural sources (of the latter, especially volcanoes which
put large amounts of particulates into the air and result in a
net cooling effect for a year or two after large eruptions).

You know where this is going, right? We'll end up seeding the
upper atmosphere with particulates- at taxpayer expense- to
reduce global warming because business and individuals can't be
bothered to reduce their GHG emissions. What can go wrong with
that?

What else would one expect from a species stupid enough to
deliberately irradiate its own planet- at all, let alone more
than once? And to stockpile enough nuclear weapons to kill
everybody a few dozen times on the pretense that this makes them
safer? Cave men with big shiny toys is all we still are.
Old news from NASA about martian ice:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2..._southpole.htm

Trend: http://www.mars-ice.org/_more/about/spcrocus.php
Thanks for those. From the first:

"Like Earth, Mars has seasons that cause its polar caps to wax and
wane. 'It's late spring at the south pole of Mars,' says planetary
scientist Dave Smith of the Goddard Space Flight Center. 'The polar
cap is receding because the springtime sun is shining on it.'"

The second shows no long-term warming trend.

So, like I said.

Regarding nuclear weapons I must have missed the news that the
Saudi peninsula and Persia are glowing masses of glass.
There's no reason to pretend to be an idiot, Andy.

I apologize for that, it was just rude and uncalled for.

I wasn't offended.
Ya gotta wonder about the net ROI on our expensive nukes...

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971