EMI Records and Abbey Road Studios probably kept every scrap of the
work tapes used to produce Sgt. Pepper. Does anyone out there with a
little more knowledge on the production techniques used to produce
that record think that a surround sound version can be produced
sometime in the future. I gather to guess that it would be similar to
the way the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds surround DVD-A was produced.

Just wondering...

Catdaddy wrote:

EMI Records and Abbey Road Studios probably kept every scrap of the
work tapes used to produce Sgt. Pepper. Does anyone out there with a
little more knowledge on the production techniques used to produce
that record think that a surround sound version can be produced
sometime in the future. I gather to guess that it would be similar to
the way the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds surround DVD-A was produced.

Just wondering...


This group is a good one in which to ask, from a technical standpoint.
The Beatles newsgroup would be almost as good, in terms of knowledge
about past quad releases.

There was a recent post there about solo McCartney stuff, and how the
DVD-A was basically the same mix as the '70's quad release (with the low
end processed separately, I'd imagine).

You may be familiar with the "Beatles Recording Sessions" books.
Border's book stores tend to have tons of the paperback version for
$7.99. That may help in understanding the tracks that were used.

I know there was some bouncing done in those days, which may negate the
ability to separate some of the tracks.

The "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" had some nice mixes, and some of that
material was from the optical soundtrack of the film.

I own the "Pet Sounds" DVD-A, and have yet to hear it, since I don't
have the equipment yet. I bought a bunch of releases that I knew I'd
want, figuring that they might go out of print.

Many others will comment here, I'd guess. I look forward to their
responses. Great question!

Catdaddy wrote:

EMI Records and Abbey Road Studios probably kept every scrap of the
work tapes used to produce Sgt. Pepper. Does anyone out there with a
little more knowledge on the production techniques used to produce
that record think that a surround sound version can be produced
sometime in the future. I gather to guess that it would be similar to
the way the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds surround DVD-A was produced.

Just wondering...


This group is a good one in which to ask, from a technical standpoint.
The Beatles newsgroup would be almost as good, in terms of knowledge
about past quad releases.

There was a recent post there about solo McCartney stuff, and how the
DVD-A was basically the same mix as the '70's quad release (with the low
end processed separately, I'd imagine).

You may be familiar with the "Beatles Recording Sessions" books.
Border's book stores tend to have tons of the paperback version for
$7.99. That may help in understanding the tracks that were used.

I know there was some bouncing done in those days, which may negate the
ability to separate some of the tracks.

The "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" had some nice mixes, and some of that
material was from the optical soundtrack of the film.

I own the "Pet Sounds" DVD-A, and have yet to hear it, since I don't
have the equipment yet. I bought a bunch of releases that I knew I'd
want, figuring that they might go out of print.

Many others will comment here, I'd guess. I look forward to their
responses. Great question!

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:52:39 -0400, Don Cooper wrote
(in article ):



Catdaddy wrote:

EMI Records and Abbey Road Studios probably kept every scrap of the
work tapes used to produce Sgt. Pepper. Does anyone out there with a
little more knowledge on the production techniques used to produce
that record think that a surround sound version can be produced
sometime in the future. I gather to guess that it would be similar to
the way the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds surround DVD-A was produced.

Just wondering...


This group is a good one in which to ask, from a technical standpoint.
The Beatles newsgroup would be almost as good, in terms of knowledge
about past quad releases.

There was a recent post there about solo McCartney stuff, and how the
DVD-A was basically the same mix as the '70's quad release (with the low
end processed separately, I'd imagine).

You may be familiar with the "Beatles Recording Sessions" books.
Border's book stores tend to have tons of the paperback version for
$7.99. That may help in understanding the tracks that were used.

I know there was some bouncing done in those days, which may negate the
ability to separate some of the tracks.

The "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" had some nice mixes, and some of that
material was from the optical soundtrack of the film.

I own the "Pet Sounds" DVD-A, and have yet to hear it, since I don't
have the equipment yet. I bought a bunch of releases that I knew I'd
want, figuring that they might go out of print.

Many others will comment here, I'd guess. I look forward to their
responses. Great question!

Sounds to me like another cheap way for record companies to keep milking the
public.

I can't wait til the film studios figure out how to do 3D remakes of classic
movies like Gone With The Wind.


Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:52:39 -0400, Don Cooper wrote
(in article ):



Catdaddy wrote:

EMI Records and Abbey Road Studios probably kept every scrap of the
work tapes used to produce Sgt. Pepper. Does anyone out there with a
little more knowledge on the production techniques used to produce
that record think that a surround sound version can be produced
sometime in the future. I gather to guess that it would be similar to
the way the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds surround DVD-A was produced.

Just wondering...


This group is a good one in which to ask, from a technical standpoint.
The Beatles newsgroup would be almost as good, in terms of knowledge
about past quad releases.

There was a recent post there about solo McCartney stuff, and how the
DVD-A was basically the same mix as the '70's quad release (with the low
end processed separately, I'd imagine).

You may be familiar with the "Beatles Recording Sessions" books.
Border's book stores tend to have tons of the paperback version for
$7.99. That may help in understanding the tracks that were used.

I know there was some bouncing done in those days, which may negate the
ability to separate some of the tracks.

The "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" had some nice mixes, and some of that
material was from the optical soundtrack of the film.

I own the "Pet Sounds" DVD-A, and have yet to hear it, since I don't
have the equipment yet. I bought a bunch of releases that I knew I'd
want, figuring that they might go out of print.

Many others will comment here, I'd guess. I look forward to their
responses. Great question!

Sounds to me like another cheap way for record companies to keep milking the
public.

I can't wait til the film studios figure out how to do 3D remakes of classic
movies like Gone With The Wind.


Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

In article , Catdaddy wrote:
EMI Records and Abbey Road Studios probably kept every scrap of the
work tapes used to produce Sgt. Pepper. Does anyone out there with a
little more knowledge on the production techniques used to produce
that record think that a surround sound version can be produced
sometime in the future. I gather to guess that it would be similar to
the way the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds surround DVD-A was produced.

Sure, but the thing was never originally tracked with surround in mind.
I think that the best that would be possible would be something like the
abominable 5.1 remix of Yellow Submarine.

But yes, there are plenty of intermediate bounces available and you could
take all the layers apart and synch them up on one big multitrack mix. It
could be done. The question is whether it would be good if it were done or
not.
--scott
(who thinks Pet Sounds is better in mono too)
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article , Catdaddy wrote:
EMI Records and Abbey Road Studios probably kept every scrap of the
work tapes used to produce Sgt. Pepper. Does anyone out there with a
little more knowledge on the production techniques used to produce
that record think that a surround sound version can be produced
sometime in the future. I gather to guess that it would be similar to
the way the Beach Boys' Pet Sounds surround DVD-A was produced.

Sure, but the thing was never originally tracked with surround in mind.
I think that the best that would be possible would be something like the
abominable 5.1 remix of Yellow Submarine.

But yes, there are plenty of intermediate bounces available and you could
take all the layers apart and synch them up on one big multitrack mix. It
could be done. The question is whether it would be good if it were done or
not.
--scott
(who thinks Pet Sounds is better in mono too)
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Sure, but the thing was never originally tracked with surround in mind.
I think that the best that would be possible would be something like the
abominable 5.1 remix of Yellow Submarine.


Many people hate the Yellow Sub release. I like it because I feel that
it has the best mix of "All You Need IS Love".



But yes, there are plenty of intermediate bounces available and you could
take all the layers apart and synch them up on one big multitrack mix. It
could be done. The question is whether it would be good if it were done or
not.


I agree. It would totally change it. I never heard the quad, so I don't
know how true to the original that is.


--scott
(who thinks Pet Sounds is better in mono too)


You got a point there. Many would say the same about Sgt. Pepper. That
was actually a whole different mix than the stereo. Apparently done
first, and with their approval.

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Sure, but the thing was never originally tracked with surround in mind.
I think that the best that would be possible would be something like the
abominable 5.1 remix of Yellow Submarine.


Many people hate the Yellow Sub release. I like it because I feel that
it has the best mix of "All You Need IS Love".



But yes, there are plenty of intermediate bounces available and you could
take all the layers apart and synch them up on one big multitrack mix. It
could be done. The question is whether it would be good if it were done or
not.


I agree. It would totally change it. I never heard the quad, so I don't
know how true to the original that is.


--scott
(who thinks Pet Sounds is better in mono too)


You got a point there. Many would say the same about Sgt. Pepper. That
was actually a whole different mix than the stereo. Apparently done
first, and with their approval.

Don Cooper wrote:

I agree. It would totally change it. I never heard the quad, so I don't
know how true to the original that is.

I am surprised that the original quad mixes of a lot of those seventies
albums aren't being made available for playback on 5.1 media. A good 5.1
system is very capable of reproducing the quad stuff, and there are a lot
of those mixes in the vaults.

Some of them sound good. Most of them are just horrible, with very
exaggerated effects, like the string quartets with one closely-miked
instrument in each corner of the room. But that was true in the early
days of stereo too, before folks learned to avoid ping-pong effects and
actually use imaging to benefit the mixes. I think I'd like to see a
lot of that material start showing up.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Don Cooper wrote:

I agree. It would totally change it. I never heard the quad, so I don't
know how true to the original that is.

I am surprised that the original quad mixes of a lot of those seventies
albums aren't being made available for playback on 5.1 media. A good 5.1
system is very capable of reproducing the quad stuff, and there are a lot
of those mixes in the vaults.

Some of them sound good. Most of them are just horrible, with very
exaggerated effects, like the string quartets with one closely-miked
instrument in each corner of the room. But that was true in the early
days of stereo too, before folks learned to avoid ping-pong effects and
actually use imaging to benefit the mixes. I think I'd like to see a
lot of that material start showing up.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I am surprised that the original quad mixes of a lot of those seventies
albums aren't being made available for playback on 5.1 media. A good 5.1
system is very capable of reproducing the quad stuff, and there are a lot
of those mixes in the vaults.

Some of them sound good. Most of them are just horrible, with very
exaggerated effects, like the string quartets with one closely-miked
instrument in each corner of the room. But that was true in the early
days of stereo too, before folks learned to avoid ping-pong effects and
actually use imaging to benefit the mixes. I think I'd like to see a
lot of that material start showing up.


I remember hearing Santana's "Abraxas", with Carlos' guitar flying
around the room.

On Carly Simon's "You're So Vain", Jagger had his own speaker, for
vocals, and his guitar solo.

Scott Dorsey wrote:

I am surprised that the original quad mixes of a lot of those seventies
albums aren't being made available for playback on 5.1 media. A good 5.1
system is very capable of reproducing the quad stuff, and there are a lot
of those mixes in the vaults.

Some of them sound good. Most of them are just horrible, with very
exaggerated effects, like the string quartets with one closely-miked
instrument in each corner of the room. But that was true in the early
days of stereo too, before folks learned to avoid ping-pong effects and
actually use imaging to benefit the mixes. I think I'd like to see a
lot of that material start showing up.


I remember hearing Santana's "Abraxas", with Carlos' guitar flying
around the room.

On Carly Simon's "You're So Vain", Jagger had his own speaker, for
vocals, and his guitar solo.

I can't wait til the film studios figure out how to do 3D remakes of classic

movies like Gone With The Wind.

Turner already colorized many old B&W movies.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

I can't wait til the film studios figure out how to do 3D remakes of classic

movies like Gone With The Wind.

Turner already colorized many old B&W movies.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

I can't wait til the film studios figure out how to do 3D remakes of classic

movies like Gone With The Wind.

Turner already colorized many old B&W movies.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

"Don Cooper" ...

I know there was some bouncing done in those days, which may negate the
ability to separate some of the tracks.


They've kept all the session tapes and can separate to some extent. There
might be bass and drums on same tracks-but the overdubs excists as
individual tracks.

The "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" had some nice mixes, and some of that
material was from the optical soundtrack of the film.

In Eleanor Rigby Paul's vocal suffers from " bad timing" on the new 5-1
mix.
String quartet was recorded on 4 tracks. A mixdown was made to another 4
track machine and voacls were added.

In remix DVD they used the original recording of the String quartet (on tape
1) and added vocals from track 3 and 4 f(tape 2)
Giving 2 different tapes-it meant a timing problem(within 1-2 seconds or so)
They had to edit(in Protools)the vocal track and fit them into the string
quartet.
I think the EMI techs did a bad job --McCartney was edited "off beat".
Quite audible!

"Don Cooper" ...

I know there was some bouncing done in those days, which may negate the
ability to separate some of the tracks.


They've kept all the session tapes and can separate to some extent. There
might be bass and drums on same tracks-but the overdubs excists as
individual tracks.

The "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" had some nice mixes, and some of that
material was from the optical soundtrack of the film.

In Eleanor Rigby Paul's vocal suffers from " bad timing" on the new 5-1
mix.
String quartet was recorded on 4 tracks. A mixdown was made to another 4
track machine and voacls were added.

In remix DVD they used the original recording of the String quartet (on tape
1) and added vocals from track 3 and 4 f(tape 2)
Giving 2 different tapes-it meant a timing problem(within 1-2 seconds or so)
They had to edit(in Protools)the vocal track and fit them into the string
quartet.
I think the EMI techs did a bad job --McCartney was edited "off beat".
Quite audible!

"Don Cooper" ...

I know there was some bouncing done in those days, which may negate the
ability to separate some of the tracks.


They've kept all the session tapes and can separate to some extent. There
might be bass and drums on same tracks-but the overdubs excists as
individual tracks.

The "Yellow Submarine Songtrack" had some nice mixes, and some of that
material was from the optical soundtrack of the film.

In Eleanor Rigby Paul's vocal suffers from " bad timing" on the new 5-1
mix.
String quartet was recorded on 4 tracks. A mixdown was made to another 4
track machine and voacls were added.

In remix DVD they used the original recording of the String quartet (on tape
1) and added vocals from track 3 and 4 f(tape 2)
Giving 2 different tapes-it meant a timing problem(within 1-2 seconds or so)
They had to edit(in Protools)the vocal track and fit them into the string
quartet.
I think the EMI techs did a bad job --McCartney was edited "off beat".
Quite audible!

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

But yes, there are plenty of intermediate bounces available and you could
take all the layers apart and synch them up on one big multitrack mix. It
could be done. The question is whether it would be good if it were done
or
not.

"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or
not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." - Jurassic Park

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

But yes, there are plenty of intermediate bounces available and you could
take all the layers apart and synch them up on one big multitrack mix. It
could be done. The question is whether it would be good if it were done
or
not.

"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or
not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." - Jurassic Park

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...

But yes, there are plenty of intermediate bounces available and you could
take all the layers apart and synch them up on one big multitrack mix. It
could be done. The question is whether it would be good if it were done
or
not.

"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or
not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." - Jurassic Park

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Don Cooper wrote:

I agree. It would totally change it. I never heard the quad, so I don't
know how true to the original that is.

I am surprised that the original quad mixes of a lot of those seventies
albums aren't being made available for playback on 5.1 media. A good 5.1
system is very capable of reproducing the quad stuff, and there are a lot
of those mixes in the vaults.

Remember it's about marketing and duping the public into buying "the
future". Maybe they're afraid it would inform the public that "this has been
done before and was a miserable failure".

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Don Cooper wrote:

I agree. It would totally change it. I never heard the quad, so I don't
know how true to the original that is.

I am surprised that the original quad mixes of a lot of those seventies
albums aren't being made available for playback on 5.1 media. A good 5.1
system is very capable of reproducing the quad stuff, and there are a lot
of those mixes in the vaults.

Remember it's about marketing and duping the public into buying "the
future". Maybe they're afraid it would inform the public that "this has been
done before and was a miserable failure".

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Don Cooper wrote:

I agree. It would totally change it. I never heard the quad, so I don't
know how true to the original that is.

I am surprised that the original quad mixes of a lot of those seventies
albums aren't being made available for playback on 5.1 media. A good 5.1
system is very capable of reproducing the quad stuff, and there are a lot
of those mixes in the vaults.

Remember it's about marketing and duping the public into buying "the
future". Maybe they're afraid it would inform the public that "this has been
done before and was a miserable failure".

"EggHd" wrote in message
...
I can't wait til the film studios figure out how to do 3D remakes of
classic

movies like Gone With The Wind.

Turner already colorized many old B&W movies.

I remember when they were afraid he was going to colorize the beginning of
"The Wizard of Oz".

"EggHd" wrote in message
...
I can't wait til the film studios figure out how to do 3D remakes of
classic

movies like Gone With The Wind.

Turner already colorized many old B&W movies.

I remember when they were afraid he was going to colorize the beginning of
"The Wizard of Oz".

"EggHd" wrote in message
...
I can't wait til the film studios figure out how to do 3D remakes of
classic

movies like Gone With The Wind.

Turner already colorized many old B&W movies.

I remember when they were afraid he was going to colorize the beginning of
"The Wizard of Oz".

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

Remember it's about marketing and duping the public into buying "the
future". Maybe they're afraid it would inform the public that "this has been
done before and was a miserable failure".


That's what kills me about some of the Beatles forums. They want
"remastered" this and "remixed" that, without even knowing what these
terms mean.

They would buy the next round of releases, but there aren't as many of
them, as say, J-Lo fans.

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

Remember it's about marketing and duping the public into buying "the
future". Maybe they're afraid it would inform the public that "this has been
done before and was a miserable failure".


That's what kills me about some of the Beatles forums. They want
"remastered" this and "remixed" that, without even knowing what these
terms mean.

They would buy the next round of releases, but there aren't as many of
them, as say, J-Lo fans.

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

Remember it's about marketing and duping the public into buying "the
future". Maybe they're afraid it would inform the public that "this has been
done before and was a miserable failure".


That's what kills me about some of the Beatles forums. They want
"remastered" this and "remixed" that, without even knowing what these
terms mean.

They would buy the next round of releases, but there aren't as many of
them, as say, J-Lo fans.

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

I remember when they were afraid he was going to colorize the beginning of
"The Wizard of Oz".


Arghhhhhhh!

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

I remember when they were afraid he was going to colorize the beginning of
"The Wizard of Oz".


Arghhhhhhh!

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

I remember when they were afraid he was going to colorize the beginning of
"The Wizard of Oz".


Arghhhhhhh!

"Don Cooper" wrote in message
...


"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

I remember when they were afraid he was going to colorize the beginning
of
"The Wizard of Oz".


Arghhhhhhh!

I'd like to know to the backstory to the "Oz" thing. From what I surmise it
was the first big "color" movie so the change from black/white to color was
done on purpose to "wow" the audience. But it's such a huge metaphor (about
the biggest I ever remember seeing) I can't believe it was done purely for
the "wow" factor.

"Don Cooper" wrote in message
...


"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

I remember when they were afraid he was going to colorize the beginning
of
"The Wizard of Oz".


Arghhhhhhh!

I'd like to know to the backstory to the "Oz" thing. From what I surmise it
was the first big "color" movie so the change from black/white to color was
done on purpose to "wow" the audience. But it's such a huge metaphor (about
the biggest I ever remember seeing) I can't believe it was done purely for
the "wow" factor.

"Don Cooper" wrote in message
...


"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

I remember when they were afraid he was going to colorize the beginning
of
"The Wizard of Oz".


Arghhhhhhh!

I'd like to know to the backstory to the "Oz" thing. From what I surmise it
was the first big "color" movie so the change from black/white to color was
done on purpose to "wow" the audience. But it's such a huge metaphor (about
the biggest I ever remember seeing) I can't believe it was done purely for
the "wow" factor.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:33:30 GMT, "Ricky W. Hunt"
wrote:

"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or
not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." - Jurassic Park

I for one, would be interested to see how a surround mix would sound.
In the right hands, it might be a revelation. It's hard to say. At
the very least, it would be nice to get as close to first gereration
as possible for a stereo remix, or even a mono remix.

By the way, I have the Beach Boys Pet Sound surround title, and I have
a 5.1 system. I was underwhelmed. I thought the stereo was more of a
treat. Scott, I bet it would sound worlds better if they took those
newly multitracked elements and made a new mono mix.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:33:30 GMT, "Ricky W. Hunt"
wrote:

"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or
not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." - Jurassic Park

I for one, would be interested to see how a surround mix would sound.
In the right hands, it might be a revelation. It's hard to say. At
the very least, it would be nice to get as close to first gereration
as possible for a stereo remix, or even a mono remix.

By the way, I have the Beach Boys Pet Sound surround title, and I have
a 5.1 system. I was underwhelmed. I thought the stereo was more of a
treat. Scott, I bet it would sound worlds better if they took those
newly multitracked elements and made a new mono mix.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:33:30 GMT, "Ricky W. Hunt"
wrote:

"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or
not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." - Jurassic Park

I for one, would be interested to see how a surround mix would sound.
In the right hands, it might be a revelation. It's hard to say. At
the very least, it would be nice to get as close to first gereration
as possible for a stereo remix, or even a mono remix.

By the way, I have the Beach Boys Pet Sound surround title, and I have
a 5.1 system. I was underwhelmed. I thought the stereo was more of a
treat. Scott, I bet it would sound worlds better if they took those
newly multitracked elements and made a new mono mix.