Blaupunkt has traditionally done this and it works great. Don't know if they
still do but it is VERY effective. I currently am using a Blaupunkt
Heidelberg in my wife's Jetta. It has a 5 band parametric EQ plus the usual
bass and treble controls, plus a 5 stage loudness control. I have used lots
of HU's, including Alpine, Excelon, JVC, Pioneer, yada yada. But I have to
admit thta the Blau is one of the best sounding I have ever heard. People
seem to diss them and I can't figure out why, other than they probably have
never even really had or heard one. Maybe its because there are no jumping
dolpins ....

........ oops, sorry for straying a bit from the immediate topic.

-RG

"MOSFET" wrote in message
...

Frankly, I would have simply included a traditional bass and treble
control along with the other EQ features. I know the Alpine engineers
must have thought this was redundant, but apparently they failed to take
into account users like me.

MOSFET

So why would you want to install a low end (and broken)
Clarion EQ in the first place

Low end? I have always thought of Clarion as a very good car audio
manufacturer. Although you can never really completely trust the
specifications a company gives, the specs for this unit appear very
respectable:

20 Hz to 20kHz +/- 1 db
S/N: 100dB
THD: .02% at 1kHz
Input Sensitivity: 0-4V RMS
Input Impedence: 15 kohm
MAXIMUM OUTPUT: 6.0V RMS (7v max)

So this unit also acts as a line driver as well. Also, IMHO, the sound is
SUPURB. I notice absolutely no added distortion or background noise (I have
A/B'ed it with the EQ in and out and there is no increase in hiss) . AND it
adds SO MUCH to my system!! I am quite smitten with it, actually. I did
not know it was broken when I bought it on Ebay, but now that I have fixed
the LED's, it operates PERFECTLY (in fact, I think it operates better as I
KNOW the LED's I installed are brighter than the originals!).

MOSFET

I have always liked the Alpine 3331or 3321, had both back in the day the 3331
had more adjustable xover settings then the 3321.


In article , "MOSFET"
wrote:
So why would you want to install a low end (and broken)
Clarion EQ in the first place

Low end? I have always thought of Clarion as a very good car audio
manufacturer. Although you can never really completely trust the
specifications a company gives, the specs for this unit appear very
respectable:

20 Hz to 20kHz +/- 1 db
S/N: 100dB
THD: .02% at 1kHz
Input Sensitivity: 0-4V RMS
Input Impedence: 15 kohm
MAXIMUM OUTPUT: 6.0V RMS (7v max)

So this unit also acts as a line driver as well. Also, IMHO, the sound is
SUPURB. I notice absolutely no added distortion or background noise (I have
A/B'ed it with the EQ in and out and there is no increase in hiss) . AND it
adds SO MUCH to my system!! I am quite smitten with it, actually. I did
not know it was broken when I bought it on Ebay, but now that I have fixed
the LED's, it operates PERFECTLY (in fact, I think it operates better as I
KNOW the LED's I installed are brighter than the originals!).

MOSFET

i see you took my advice n got that clarion eq.
i have one too but havent used it yet..lol
bought yours off ebay? was $45 too much for you?

I wanted a JVC EQ, but couldn't find one

"bob wald" wrote in message
...
i see you took my advice n got that clarion eq.
i have one too but havent used it yet..lol
bought yours off ebay? was $45 too much for you?

jvc i like.but they aint got no eq that increases your output v.....stop
lieing..lol

mosfet..admit it i changed your life....everytime you use that eq.you
love, think of me.n how lucky you are you came across me.lol

It's too bad that we can encode EQ settings in the header info of MP3
files. The headunit would then read the info when it loads each file,
make the EQ adjustments specified, and, presto, every song is played at
the perfect settings.


Yes, that would be SO great. And I would certainly take the time to make at
least some rudimentary adjustments. I mean, there are songs that I ALWAYS
have to turn the bass up or down. It would be so nice if before I burned a
disc I could make these adjustments to the MP3 file.

Nice idea, but highly impractical...

First, you'd need to find some way to encode the info into the file in
such a way that it wouldn't interfere with the audio data. ID3 tags
don't have a spec for that info.

Second, you'd have to devise a standard for the info, including how
many bands of EQ and how many steps per band... and then get the HU
manufacturers to agree to support that standard.

Third, they'd all have to support it the same way - +3 steps at 100Hz
would have to sound the same on every HU or it negates the whole
purpose.

Fourth, you'd need software to embed the data on the computer end...
that would require either a separate program to either replace your
regular media player or use separate from it, or it would require every
other software maker (Microsoft for Windows Media Player, Apple for
iTunes, WinAmp, Real, just to name four of the biggest ones, and there
are literally hundreds of others) to subscribe to your standard. Some
players might allow it with the use of plugins, but many won't.

Fifth, what sounds good on your computer speakers is probably NOT going
to sound anywhere near the same on your car system, which kind of
nullifies the whole point of the exercise.

Better way to implement this kind of idea is to have the HU itself
remember the settings you apply for a given song or disc. With
pre-packaged music CDs, this would be easy using every disc's embedded
serial number (same data your software players uses to look up CDDB
info). Once you adjust the EQ for that disc, you have the HU store
those settings so it can recall them anytime you insert that disc.

Better way to implement this kind of idea is to have the HU itself
remember the settings you apply for a given song or disc. With
pre-packaged music CDs, this would be easy using every disc's embedded
serial number (same data your software players uses to look up CDDB
info). Once you adjust the EQ for that disc, you have the HU store
those settings so it can recall them anytime you insert that disc.

NOW THAT, IS A GOOD IDEA!!! I like it.

MOSFET

"Soundy" wrote in message
oups.com...
It's too bad that we can encode EQ settings in the header info of MP3
files. The headunit would then read the info when it loads each file,
make the EQ adjustments specified, and, presto, every song is played at
the perfect settings.


Yes, that would be SO great. And I would certainly take the time to make
at
least some rudimentary adjustments. I mean, there are songs that I
ALWAYS
have to turn the bass up or down. It would be so nice if before I burned
a
disc I could make these adjustments to the MP3 file.

Nice idea, but highly impractical...

Not impractical at all, just not implemented at this time.

First, you'd need to find some way to encode the info into the file in
such a way that it wouldn't interfere with the audio data. ID3 tags
don't have a spec for that info.

That method already exists, although the tags would certainly have to be
expanded.

Second, you'd have to devise a standard for the info, including how
many bands of EQ and how many steps per band... and then get the HU
manufacturers to agree to support that standard.

Yes. This is true, but not impossible. Let's set that right now -- is ten
enough? Do we need 15 or 20? Plus or minus 5dB for each band? Steps in
..01 dB? Say encoded like 0.00,0.00,0.05,0.25,0.5, 1.0, 1.15, . . . . and so
on. Of course there are those whose settings for the lowest five or so
bands will be 5.0, 5.0, 5.0, 5.0 :-p

Third, they'd all have to support it the same way - +3 steps at 100Hz
would have to sound the same on every HU or it negates the whole
purpose.

Not true. As long as I can adjust my MP3 files to sound the way I want them
to on *my* HU then that's all that's required. The differences between HUs
are going to be present regardless of technology and I don't think this can
be overcome. (Nor should it, becuase if they all sounded the same
compeitition would be reduced to flashing lights and dancing dolphins -- not
a good thing.) In any case a file that needs the bass boosted probably does
so regardless of player.


Fourth, you'd need software to embed the data on the computer end...
that would require either a separate program to either replace your
regular media player or use separate from it, or it would require every
other software maker (Microsoft for Windows Media Player, Apple for
iTunes, WinAmp, Real, just to name four of the biggest ones, and there
are literally hundreds of others) to subscribe to your standard. Some
players might allow it with the use of plugins, but many won't.

Easily added to all of the above. The fact that it doesn't exist now does
not mean it is impossible or even difficult to create.

Fifth, what sounds good on your computer speakers is probably NOT going
to sound anywhere near the same on your car system, which kind of
nullifies the whole point of the exercise.

Again, not true. As I said in my original post, it would be a tedious
process to make notes in your car when a particular track is played and then
change the settings next time you burn a CD, but the end result would be
worth it. You could probably even learn to correlate the sound on your PC
to the sound in your car and know what adjustments to make on your PC to
make it sound like you want when in your car.

Better way to implement this kind of idea is to have the HU itself
remember the settings you apply for a given song or disc. With
pre-packaged music CDs, this would be easy using every disc's embedded
serial number (same data your software players uses to look up CDDB
info). Once you adjust the EQ for that disc, you have the HU store
those settings so it can recall them anytime you insert that disc.

That may be fine with pre-packaged CDs, but with ordinary MP3 files the
quality control is simply not there. While it's relatively easy to
normalize volume on the files, other factors such as can be addressed by a
good EQ are wildly different from file to file. If a HU could be set up to
remember the EQ settings on a track by track basis then that's a solution
that would work. I don't see an option for remembering the settings for an
entire disk because the individual files vary so much. Either way, it would
be nice to be able to auto-adjust the EQ on a song by song basis. If the
setting were encoded in the MP3 header then it would work across all
players, even though they wouldn't sound the same a file that needs the
mid-range boosted probably does so regardless of the player.

It's a real need, and regardless of the solution I think we can expect to
see a solution in the future. When there's a perceived market a product
will be produced to address it.

PD

"Matt Ion" wrote in message
news:VUzVf.185364$B94.9282@pd7tw3no...
Phonedude wrote:

Second, you'd have to devise a standard for the info, including how
many bands of EQ and how many steps per band... and then get the HU
manufacturers to agree to support that standard.


Yes. This is true, but not impossible. Let's set that right now -- is
ten enough? Do we need 15 or 20? Plus or minus 5dB for each band?
Steps in .01 dB? Say encoded like 0.00,0.00,0.05,0.25,0.5, 1.0, 1.15, .
. . . and so on. Of course there are those whose settings for the lowest
five or so bands will be 5.0, 5.0, 5.0, 5.0 :-p

That's fine. Now get all the manufacturers who want to implement this
idea to agree to the same standard. Ever tried herding cats?
[snip]

Ever wonder where MP3 files came from in the first place? There was a need
for compression and the marketplace came up with a solution. That solution
was then enhanced with ID3 tags for basic information. Just so you know,
the latest version, ID3v2 already has a place to put equalizer information,
showing that the need has already been recognized. The eq info is in
addition to volume, balance, and reverb settings.

For more info have a look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3

Phonedude wrote:
"Matt Ion" wrote in message
news:VUzVf.185364$B94.9282@pd7tw3no...

Phonedude wrote:


Second, you'd have to devise a standard for the info, including how
many bands of EQ and how many steps per band... and then get the HU
manufacturers to agree to support that standard.


Yes. This is true, but not impossible. Let's set that right now -- is
ten enough? Do we need 15 or 20? Plus or minus 5dB for each band?
Steps in .01 dB? Say encoded like 0.00,0.00,0.05,0.25,0.5, 1.0, 1.15, .
. . . and so on. Of course there are those whose settings for the lowest
five or so bands will be 5.0, 5.0, 5.0, 5.0 :-p

That's fine. Now get all the manufacturers who want to implement this
idea to agree to the same standard. Ever tried herding cats?

[snip]

Ever wonder where MP3 files came from in the first place?

I know exactly where they came from. Had nothing to do with any
"marketplace", just a buncha geeks wanting a way to share music, mostly
over horribly slow dialup connections.


---
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http://www.avast.com

Better way to implement this kind of idea is to have the HU itself
remember the settings you apply for a given song or disc. With
pre-packaged music CDs, this would be easy using every disc's embedded
serial number (same data your software players uses to look up CDDB
info). Once you adjust the EQ for that disc, you have the HU store
those settings so it can recall them anytime you insert that disc.

That may be fine with pre-packaged CDs, but with ordinary MP3 files the
quality control is simply not there.

What quality control? I'm not talking about pre-programming every head
unit made with pre-set EQ curves for every piece of music... I'm
talking about the head unit simply storing whatever settings you make
on it for each individual CD (or song, if you want to get really anal
about it).

It's a real need,

For whom?

and regardless of the solution I think we can expect to
see a solution in the future. When there's a perceived market a product
will be produced to address it.

Only if there's a market of a viable size.

As I said in my original post, it would be a tedious
process to make notes in your car when a particular track is played and then
change the settings next time you burn a CD, but the end result would be
worth it.

How many people are going to spend the time burning CDs of MP3s, taking
them to their cars, listening to them, going back to their computer,
adjusting the EQ on a per-song basis, reburning them, trying again...?
You maybe. MOSFET maybe. I expect the novelty will wear off pretty
quickly (at 150 songs per disc).

At this point, why not just re-EQ the files themselves and burn those
to your CD-R? No modifications necessary to the head units, no
additional software needed... you can tune it specifically to your car,
since it doesn't need to sound "right" in anyone else's. It's no more
work, and you can do it today with freely available software and any
existing car MP3 player. Hell, it'll even work for people using their
iPod or other portable player in their cars.

Right there, your market vanishes: nobody's going to pay extra for a
head unit and change up all their software at some point in the future
to do something they can already do today.

I'm
talking about the head unit simply storing whatever settings you make
on it for each individual CD (or song, if you want to get really anal
about it).

Yes, this makes the most sense. You're right, it is impractical to try and
make those corrections on your computer when it will be played in the car.
I would CERTAINLY be interested in a HU that would remember EQ settings for
every song. With the cost of flash memory cards becoming ever cheaper, I
would think it would be fairly easy to equip even a low-cost HU with enough
memory to remember the EQ settings of thousands of songs.

MOSFET

"Matt Ion" wrote in message
news:qkGVf.187438$B94.9569@pd7tw3no...
Phonedude wrote:
"Matt Ion" wrote in message
news:VUzVf.185364$B94.9282@pd7tw3no...

Phonedude wrote:


Second, you'd have to devise a standard for the info, including how
many bands of EQ and how many steps per band... and then get the HU
manufacturers to agree to support that standard.


Yes. This is true, but not impossible. Let's set that right now -- is
ten enough? Do we need 15 or 20? Plus or minus 5dB for each band?
Steps in .01 dB? Say encoded like 0.00,0.00,0.05,0.25,0.5, 1.0, 1.15, .
. . . and so on. Of course there are those whose settings for the
lowest five or so bands will be 5.0, 5.0, 5.0, 5.0 :-p

That's fine. Now get all the manufacturers who want to implement this
idea to agree to the same standard. Ever tried herding cats?

[snip]

Ever wonder where MP3 files came from in the first place?

I know exactly where they came from. Had nothing to do with any
"marketplace", just a buncha geeks wanting a way to share music, mostly
over horribly slow dialup connections.

LOL. Clearly you don't understand what the "marketplace" is -- the
invisible hand writes, and having written, moves on. Your version of the
creation of the mp3 methodology is a little romanticized, but that's no
matter. I see you made no attempt to address the fact that what I am
talking about is already in the works. The fact that it can be done means
that, almost certainly, it will be. Right now the focus is on bluetooth and
external ipods or other mp3 players, but after that is fully addressed the
next step will be fully implemented tags with all sorts of sound quality
information included in the MP3 file. Some manufacturers will also probably
include some memory functions in their HUs, but the tags will also be there
so we will have a choice. Someday, perhaps, we will combine the two
technologies into one with your HU having a CD (or DVD) with RW capability
and will adjust the tags each time you adjust the volume, balance, or EQ and
hit "Save."

Frankly I don't think it would be that difficult to correlate the sound
produced by your pc to that of your car. In other words, It wouldn't take
much effort to train your ear and be able to say, if it sounds like *this*
on my pc it will sound the way I want in my car.

PD

Frankly I don't think it would be that difficult to correlate the sound
produced by your pc to that of your car. In other words, It wouldn't take
much effort to train your ear and be able to say, if it sounds like *this*
on my pc it will sound the way I want in my car.

For very basic adjustments, yes, I agree. As I mentioned in this thread
before, there are some songs that I ALWAYS have to turn the subwoofer volume
way up (this is certainly the most frequent adjustment, besides volume, I
make on my HU). I know what these songs are and it would be nice to be able
to make some adjustment before I burned a disc. But as far as adjusting
something like a 1/3 octive EQ or a parametric EQ, it would take being in
the car listening to fine tune to this degree. But I would certainly love
to have the option NOW!

MOSFET