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  #81   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
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"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
. ..

Tha Ghee wrote
what batt. can produce 6,600 watts show me some graphs, but you'll

doctor
them up like you did with TN.


Even an average should be able to produce 6,600W and should be able to do

it
for more the 30 seconds.

Let's look at some examples:

550CA battery 80ah rating (ah=amp hour)

@12V the above battery can produce 6,600W (12x550)
it should be able to do this for almost 9 minutes (80/550*60)
it can produce 960W continuously for an hour

I have a Motormaster Eliminator in my Sunbird

750CA, 135ah rating

@ 12V it can produce 9,000W (12x750)
it should be able to do this for about 10 minutes (135/750*60)
it can produce 1,620W continuously for an hour

I have run my stereo system off the battery for in excess of 7 hours

before
(continuously). Probably drawing ~ 200W on average the entire time. Still
had enough juice left over the start the car at the end of the shift.

does my full power timeline seem correct? I made that equation up on the
fly, seems reasonable to me.

Dan Snooks

I think that much power would kill a regular battery, I can see the 1620 but
6.6k that's a lot.


  #82   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
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"MZ" wrote in message
news
You are digging a very impressive hole for yourself with these kinds of
posts. You may want to quit while you are behind.

Batteries DO "put out" (produce) power. They ALSO store it. If batteries
could not put out power, things like wris****ches, cell phones and such
wouldn't work.


Daniel, you may as well give up. Ghee and I (and Les) had a discussion
about whether or not batteries are storage devices or voltage sources, and
after being presented with all kinds of evidence that they were in fact
voltage sources (hell, they're the prototypical voltage source!), he still
maintained that they are not. You're fighting a losing battle.

show me three examples or two, you just kept saying batteries and showing me
different types of batteries no evidence. show me some and no more will
need to be said.


  #83   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
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"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
. ..
MZ wrote
Daniel, you may as well give up. Ghee and I (and Les) had a discussion
about whether or not batteries are storage devices or voltage sources,

and
after being presented with all kinds of evidence that they were in fact
voltage sources (hell, they're the prototypical voltage source!), he

still
maintained that they are not. You're fighting a losing battle.


Hey Mark ... still fighting the good fight I see :-)

never ceases to amaze, but if everyone agreed life would be pretty boring
I still enjoy seeing some of these guys antagonize the regulars, keeps you
all on your toes ...

I'm not trying to be an azz but show me. I don't antagonize the reg. and to
make a statement like that with no proof is assine.


  #84   Report Post  
MZ
 
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show me three examples or two, you just kept saying batteries and showing
me
different types of batteries no evidence. show me some and no more will
need to be said.


You want evidence? Let me first ask you a question. Do you have a physics
text handy? Or how about an electrical engineering text? If so, which one
is it? If not, I can provide 7 or 8 sources off the top of my head that
distinctly say that batteries are voltage sources.


  #85   Report Post  
MZ
 
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no they store power, they don't make their own power.

It's impossible to "store power". Power cannot be stored. Do you mean
store energy?

if a battery isn't
charged it won't do anything but take up space.


If a battery has a chemical potential sufficient enough to generate (ie.
produce) an electrical potential, then it will produce power when a load is
connected.




  #86   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
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The guys too stupid to think..

my flashlight needs a voltage source... So I put batteries in it!

I think GHEE is just a troll......

MZ wrote:

show me three examples or two, you just kept saying batteries and showing

me
different types of batteries no evidence. show me some and no more will
need to be said.


You want evidence? Let me first ask you a question. Do you have a physics
text handy? Or how about an electrical engineering text? If so, which one
is it? If not, I can provide 7 or 8 sources off the top of my head that
distinctly say that batteries are voltage sources.


  #87   Report Post  
Scott Gardner
 
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On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:29:03 -0500, "Tha Ghee"
wrote:

"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
...
Notice that in the first response here, Tha Ghee asserts that most things
break when you turn them OFF. I hope he meant to say ON, or none of it

makes
any sense whatsoever.
More importantly, in the final response by Tha Ghee, he states that the
whole point of the post was to show that thelizard was incorrect. Um, he
never showed that. On a side note ... what does a lightbulb filament have

to
do with the price of escargot in Spain? IF I read this thread correctly,

the
discussion is (once again) what to do about capacitors. Are they useful?

if
so in what application, if not ... why not?

Don't think that I feel thelizard needs a hand, just putting in my $0.02

Dan Snooks

no I said "ON" just goggle it you'll see. yes I did but I can see that your
reading comprehension is low so I'll let you slide. what the hell are you
saying, this bulb post is from a previous post. if you don't know what has
been said don't say anything.

Ghee,
You can't change history, so at least admit to your honest
mistake. Here's the Google search:

text - "turn them off"

author "Tha Ghee"

Newsgroup - rec.audio.car

And here's the quote from your post:

"no Mark is correct here, the fluctuation is greatest at startup of
the car and audio system. this is why most things break when you turn
them off, like light bulbs."


Probably just a typo, but you DID say it...


Scott
  #88   Report Post  
MZ
 
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That argument was presented to him by Les last time. Ghee's response was
that rechargeable batteries aren't sources. The battery that powers your
flashlight is.

--
Mark
remove "remove" and "spam" to reply

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
The guys too stupid to think..

my flashlight needs a voltage source... So I put batteries in it!

I think GHEE is just a troll......

MZ wrote:

show me three examples or two, you just kept saying batteries and

showing
me
different types of batteries no evidence. show me some and no more

will
need to be said.


You want evidence? Let me first ask you a question. Do you have a

physics
text handy? Or how about an electrical engineering text? If so, which

one
is it? If not, I can provide 7 or 8 sources off the top of my head that
distinctly say that batteries are voltage sources.




  #89   Report Post  
Eddie Runner
 
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why argue with him at all? He WONT listen to reason so
why waste your breath? his posts mostly seem to want to
bash someone so I think he is looking for a whipping boy
not a real live tech arguement...

MZ wrote:

That argument was presented to him by Les last time. Ghee's response was
that rechargeable batteries aren't sources. The battery that powers your
flashlight is.

--
Mark
remove "remove" and "spam" to reply

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
The guys too stupid to think..

my flashlight needs a voltage source... So I put batteries in it!

I think GHEE is just a troll......

MZ wrote:

show me three examples or two, you just kept saying batteries and

showing
me
different types of batteries no evidence. show me some and no more

will
need to be said.


You want evidence? Let me first ask you a question. Do you have a

physics
text handy? Or how about an electrical engineering text? If so, which

one
is it? If not, I can provide 7 or 8 sources off the top of my head that
distinctly say that batteries are voltage sources.



  #90   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Tha Ghee wrote:

no they store power, they don't make their own power. if a battery isn't
charged it won't do anything but take up space.

they only develop power once they're charged.

I'm not digging any hole and I'm never behind.


A battery is a series of cells.

A cell uses the interaction of an electrolyte (acid or base (alkaline))
and two differential metals to produce a voltage.

Cells come in two types. Primary and secondary. A car battery uses
secondary cells because secondary cells can be recharged. The VAST
MAJORITY of cells and batteries produced are primary cells - which
cannot be recharged, charged, or otherwise store electricity. They
generate it.

Now that I've enlightened you with this very basic less in electronics,
I'm repeating the other gentlemans advice: shut up before you dig your
stupid-hole any deeper.

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.


  #91   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Tha Ghee wrote:

I think that much power would kill a regular battery, I can see the 1620 but
6.6k that's a lot.


What kind of collosally stupid moron are you? Do some SIMPLE ARITHMETIC!
Ohms law gives power as being volts times amp (V*I). If a 12 volt
battery can put out 550 amps of current (550 cca rated battery) then
that is 6,600 watts. A 550 cca battery is about average - you can easily
buy batterys that put out as much as 850 cca, which comes to 10,200 watts.

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.
  #92   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Tha Ghee wrote:

show me three examples or two, you just kept saying batteries and showing me
different types of batteries no evidence. show me some and no more will
need to be said.


Take a piece of zinc and a piece of copper. Stick them in opposite ends
of a lemon. Hook your voltmeter up to them. You will get as much as 2
volts. That is an electrical cell. Put two in series and you'll have a
battery.

Now, once that lemon stops putting out voltage, connect it to a
recharger. Let me know when the lemon - which is an electrical cell -
fully recharges. I'll be here for the next few years.

For your other two examples, do the same trick with a potato and a
grapefruit.

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.
  #93   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Tha Ghee wrote:

I'm not trying to be an azz but show me. I don't antagonize the reg. and to
make a statement like that with no proof is assine.


So uhm...like...what's your proof?

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.
  #94   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
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it was, I thought I typed ON, oh well can't win them all.

"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 13:29:03 -0500, "Tha Ghee"
wrote:

"Daniel Snooks" wrote in message
...
Notice that in the first response here, Tha Ghee asserts that most

things
break when you turn them OFF. I hope he meant to say ON, or none of it

makes
any sense whatsoever.
More importantly, in the final response by Tha Ghee, he states that the
whole point of the post was to show that thelizard was incorrect. Um,

he
never showed that. On a side note ... what does a lightbulb filament

have
to
do with the price of escargot in Spain? IF I read this thread

correctly,
the
discussion is (once again) what to do about capacitors. Are they

useful?
if
so in what application, if not ... why not?

Don't think that I feel thelizard needs a hand, just putting in my

$0.02

Dan Snooks

no I said "ON" just goggle it you'll see. yes I did but I can see that

your
reading comprehension is low so I'll let you slide. what the hell are

you
saying, this bulb post is from a previous post. if you don't know what

has
been said don't say anything.

Ghee,
You can't change history, so at least admit to your honest
mistake. Here's the Google search:

text - "turn them off"

author "Tha Ghee"

Newsgroup - rec.audio.car

And here's the quote from your post:

"no Mark is correct here, the fluctuation is greatest at startup of
the car and audio system. this is why most things break when you turn
them off, like light bulbs."


Probably just a typo, but you DID say it...


Scott



  #95   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
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"MZ" wrote in message
...
show me three examples or two, you just kept saying batteries and

showing
me
different types of batteries no evidence. show me some and no more will
need to be said.


You want evidence? Let me first ask you a question. Do you have a

physics
text handy? Or how about an electrical engineering text? If so, which

one
is it? If not, I can provide 7 or 8 sources off the top of my head that
distinctly say that batteries are voltage sources.

I know they're a source, but it was stated by many that they could GENERATE
their own power, and I just wanted to see proof of this, not that's is a
source.




  #96   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
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"thelizman" wrote in message
...
Tha Ghee wrote:

I'm not trying to be an azz but show me. I don't antagonize the reg.

and to
make a statement like that with no proof is assine.


So uhm...like...what's your proof?

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.


you and the rest are the "big boyz" on the net I thoughts this is what you
lived for, since you don't live for the luv of a woman.


  #97   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
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"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
The guys too stupid to think..

my flashlight needs a voltage source... So I put batteries in it!

I think GHEE is just a troll......

MZ wrote:

show me three examples or two, you just kept saying batteries and

showing
me
different types of batteries no evidence. show me some and no more

will
need to be said.


You want evidence? Let me first ask you a question. Do you have a

physics
text handy? Or how about an electrical engineering text? If so, which

one
is it? If not, I can provide 7 or 8 sources off the top of my head that
distinctly say that batteries are voltage sources.


I never said it wasn't a source, but the statement was that a batt could
generate or create it's own power, I've never heard of this. I never
doubted that it was a source, but it can't create it's own power. Not at
all just looking for information.


  #98   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
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"MZ" wrote in message
...
That argument was presented to him by Les last time. Ghee's response was
that rechargeable batteries aren't sources. The battery that powers your
flashlight is.

no I said how can the generate, or create their own power.


  #99   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
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"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
why argue with him at all? He WONT listen to reason so
why waste your breath? his posts mostly seem to want to
bash someone so I think he is looking for a whipping boy
not a real live tech arguement...

what the hell are you talking about, I don't bash anyone else they start it.
now I want you to understand this, get off your knees and walk away from
theliz.

I like intelligent discussions not what you bring, last time I checked TN
whipped the hell out of you.


  #100   Report Post  
MZ
 
Posts: n/a
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I know they're a source, but it was stated by many that they could
GENERATE
their own power, and I just wanted to see proof of this, not that's is a
source.


If it's a source, then by definition it generates power.

1) The law of conservation of energy requires that all power sources produce
the energy at the expense of another type of energy (ie. energy
transduction). In other words, it transforms one type of energy into
another. It's impossible to produce energy out of thin air.

2) A battery transforms chemical energy into electrical energy.

3) The dissipation of that electrical energy in a finite period of time is
defined as power dissipation.

Therefore, a battery is a source of power. Simply hooking a passive load to
it (eg. a resistor) will result in power dissipation. One of the two
elements in such a circuit has to be the source of power, and I'm sure you
agree that it's not the resistor.

So which of the three points above do you disagree with?




  #101   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
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"MZ" wrote in message
...
no they store power, they don't make their own power.


It's impossible to "store power". Power cannot be stored. Do you mean
store energy?

if a battery isn't
charged it won't do anything but take up space.


If a battery has a chemical potential sufficient enough to generate (ie.
produce) an electrical potential, then it will produce power when a load

is
connected.

semantics but I see your point.

but how can a batt. create it's own power?? the argument was that it can
create it's own power, without an alt, if the alt doesn't charge it up it'll
be some chemicals and plastic.


  #102   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
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"thelizman" wrote in message
...
Tha Ghee wrote:


Now that I've enlightened you with this very basic less in electronics,
I'm repeating the other gentlemans advice: shut up before you dig your
stupid-hole any deeper.

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.


I didn't need the info, but it's good to know. I've stated my question, so
hush and let grown folks talk.


  #103   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
Posts: n/a
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"thelizman" wrote in message
...
Tha Ghee wrote:

show me three examples or two, you just kept saying batteries and

showing me
different types of batteries no evidence. show me some and no more will
need to be said.


Take a piece of zinc and a piece of copper. Stick them in opposite ends
of a lemon. Hook your voltmeter up to them. You will get as much as 2
volts. That is an electrical cell. Put two in series and you'll have a
battery.

Now, once that lemon stops putting out voltage, connect it to a
recharger. Let me know when the lemon - which is an electrical cell -
fully recharges. I'll be here for the next few years.

For your other two examples, do the same trick with a potato and a
grapefruit.

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.


are you saying that the chemical reaction in fruit with a graduation in the
metals is the same thing that happens in a batt.??


  #104   Report Post  
MZ
 
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but how can a batt. create it's own power?? the argument was that it can
create it's own power, without an alt, if the alt doesn't charge it up

it'll
be some chemicals and plastic.


Well, does it produce power when you go to autozone and hook a resistor
across one of the batteries in the rack?

Whether or not it's rechargable makes no difference. It's still a battery.


  #105   Report Post  
Les
 
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"Tha Ghee" wrote in message I like intelligent
discussions not what you bring, last time I checked TN
whipped the hell out of you.



Now I know that English is not his first language. Tom whipped the hell out
of Eddie? So which one of Toms points do you agree with and what of Eddie's
do you disagree with?

Les




  #106   Report Post  
Scott Gardner
 
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On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:42:58 -0400, "Tha Ghee"
wrote:

"MZ" wrote in message
...
That argument was presented to him by Les last time. Ghee's response was
that rechargeable batteries aren't sources. The battery that powers your
flashlight is.

no I said how can the generate, or create their own power.



Actually, power isn't "created" anywhere - power isn't a physical
quantity, it's a measurement of how quickly energy is transferred.

As far as energy goes, there's nothing in our cars that creates
energy, either. Everthing that happens in our cars is energy
conversion, not creation. Here's the breakdown.

Chemical energy in the fuel is converted to thermal/pressure energy
in the combustion chamber. This is converted to linear mechanical
energy as the expanding gases push the piston down. The linear
mechanical energy is converted into rotational mechanical energy in
the crankshaft. The rotational mechanical energy of the crankshaft is
transferred via pullies and a belt to the alternator, where it is
converted into electrical energy. Some of this electrical energy is
transferred via wires to the battery, where it is converted into
chemical energy. The battery can perform energy conversion in both
directions, releasing some of its stored chemical energy as electrical
energy when required.

I only included the electrical system of the car - some of the energy
obviously goes into moving the car itself, and quite a bit of energy
is lost at each step in the form of heat, noise, etcetera.


When we talk about "voltage sources", you have to realize that this
term has a very specific meaning - "A device that is capable of
converting non-electric energy to electric energy and vice-versa".

In our cars, the only device that acts as a "voltage source" is the
battery, since it converts chemical energy to electrical energy AND
converts electrical energy to chemical energy. The alternator only
converts from mechanical energy to electrical energy, not the other
way around, so the alternator technically wouldn't be a "voltage
source".

Scott Gardner


  #107   Report Post  
MZ
 
Posts: n/a
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In our cars, the only device that acts as a "voltage source" is the
battery, since it converts chemical energy to electrical energy AND
converts electrical energy to chemical energy. The alternator only
converts from mechanical energy to electrical energy, not the other
way around, so the alternator technically wouldn't be a "voltage
source".


The alt can also be considered a voltage source. The bidirectional thing
isn't a requirement.


  #108   Report Post  
Scott Gardner
 
Posts: n/a
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:13:29 -0400, "MZ"
wrote:

In our cars, the only device that acts as a "voltage source" is the
battery, since it converts chemical energy to electrical energy AND
converts electrical energy to chemical energy. The alternator only
converts from mechanical energy to electrical energy, not the other
way around, so the alternator technically wouldn't be a "voltage
source".


The alt can also be considered a voltage source. The bidirectional thing
isn't a requirement.

I've always thought the bidirectional requirement was a little bit
arbitrary as well, but so far I've found it in three of my old
electrical engineering texts, so that's how I quoted it.

Scott Gardner
  #109   Report Post  
MZ
 
Posts: n/a
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The alt can also be considered a voltage source. The bidirectional thing
isn't a requirement.

I've always thought the bidirectional requirement was a little bit
arbitrary as well, but so far I've found it in three of my old
electrical engineering texts, so that's how I quoted it.


That would eliminate non-rechargable batteries (and nuclear power plants)
from the source category.

All a voltage source needs to be is the production of a voltage. To
electrical engineers, it doesn't matter whether it's mechanical or chemical
energy transduction. It only matters that it's the first step where a
voltage arises.


  #110   Report Post  
Scott Gardner
 
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 12:33:12 -0400, "MZ"
wrote:

The alt can also be considered a voltage source. The bidirectional thing
isn't a requirement.

I've always thought the bidirectional requirement was a little bit
arbitrary as well, but so far I've found it in three of my old
electrical engineering texts, so that's how I quoted it.


That would eliminate non-rechargable batteries (and nuclear power plants)
from the source category.

All a voltage source needs to be is the production of a voltage. To
electrical engineers, it doesn't matter whether it's mechanical or chemical
energy transduction. It only matters that it's the first step where a
voltage arises.


Agreed - the bi-directional requirement would also eliminate solar
cells and geothermal batteries. I'm just curious why the
bidirectional requirement found its way into so many of my texts. I
tried to find an "official" definition of a voltage source, perhaps
from the IEEE, but no luck so far.

Scott Gardner



  #111   Report Post  
MZ
 
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Default Capacitor, how to find out what size?

Agreed - the bi-directional requirement would also eliminate solar
cells and geothermal batteries. I'm just curious why the
bidirectional requirement found its way into so many of my texts. I
tried to find an "official" definition of a voltage source, perhaps
from the IEEE, but no luck so far.


Well, you have to wonder how "official" an official definition would be. It
may seem circular, but I think the best definition for voltage source is
simply "a source of voltage".


  #112   Report Post  
thelizman
 
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Default Capacitor, how to find out what size?

Tha Ghee wrote:

are you saying that the chemical reaction in fruit with a graduation in the
metals is the same thing that happens in a batt.??


Yes, you moron.

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.
  #113   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
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Default Capacitor, how to find out what size?

"Scott Gardner" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 19:42:58 -0400, "Tha Ghee"
wrote:

"MZ" wrote in message
...
That argument was presented to him by Les last time. Ghee's response

was
that rechargeable batteries aren't sources. The battery that powers

your
flashlight is.

no I said how can the generate, or create their own power.



Actually, power isn't "created" anywhere - power isn't a physical
quantity, it's a measurement of how quickly energy is transferred.

As far as energy goes, there's nothing in our cars that creates
energy, either. Everthing that happens in our cars is energy
conversion, not creation. Here's the breakdown.

Chemical energy in the fuel is converted to thermal/pressure energy
in the combustion chamber. This is converted to linear mechanical
energy as the expanding gases push the piston down. The linear
mechanical energy is converted into rotational mechanical energy in
the crankshaft. The rotational mechanical energy of the crankshaft is
transferred via pullies and a belt to the alternator, where it is
converted into electrical energy. Some of this electrical energy is
transferred via wires to the battery, where it is converted into
chemical energy. The battery can perform energy conversion in both
directions, releasing some of its stored chemical energy as electrical
energy when required.

I only included the electrical system of the car - some of the energy
obviously goes into moving the car itself, and quite a bit of energy
is lost at each step in the form of heat, noise, etcetera.


When we talk about "voltage sources", you have to realize that this
term has a very specific meaning - "A device that is capable of
converting non-electric energy to electric energy and vice-versa".

In our cars, the only device that acts as a "voltage source" is the
battery, since it converts chemical energy to electrical energy AND
converts electrical energy to chemical energy. The alternator only
converts from mechanical energy to electrical energy, not the other
way around, so the alternator technically wouldn't be a "voltage
source".

Scott Gardner

Ok this makes sense, if I didn't understand what MZ and Les where saying I'm
sorry.


  #114   Report Post  
Tha Ghee
 
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"thelizman" wrote in message
...
Tha Ghee wrote:

are you saying that the chemical reaction in fruit with a graduation in

the
metals is the same thing that happens in a batt.??


Yes, you moron.

--
thelizman "I didn't steal the FAQ either"

Before you ask a question, check the FAQs for this newsgroup at
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq. It contains over a decade and
a half of knowledge.

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than usenet without the express written permission of the author
is forbidden.


what are you saying dumbass, just 3 words??


  #115   Report Post  
Charliegone
 
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Default Capacitor, how to find out what size?


Ok. I want to give you guys a scenario and tell me what is better.
I have a 2000 corolla that has an alternator putting out 80amps,
supposively, I have a kenwood amp that has about 40amps rate, hooked up
to 2 mtx 10" woofers. After about 10 minutes my cars lights start
dimming slightly when I put the music up loud. When it is at lower
volumes it hardly dims. Is that a result that the alternator is not
putting out enough juice, or is it the wiring of the cars elec. system,
is it the battery or do I NEED a cap? Doesn't a cap use power just like
any other component in the car? I'm somewhat in a dilemma trying to
figure out what is best for my needs.


--
Charliegone
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  #116   Report Post  
Scott Gardner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Capacitor, how to find out what size?

Charliegone wrote:


Ok. I want to give you guys a scenario and tell me what is better.
I have a 2000 corolla that has an alternator putting out 80amps,
supposively, I have a kenwood amp that has about 40amps rate, hooked up
to 2 mtx 10" woofers. After about 10 minutes my cars lights start
dimming slightly when I put the music up loud. When it is at lower
volumes it hardly dims. Is that a result that the alternator is not
putting out enough juice, or is it the wiring of the cars elec. system,
is it the battery or do I NEED a cap? Doesn't a cap use power just like
any other component in the car? I'm somewhat in a dilemma trying to
figure out what is best for my needs.


--
Charliegone


You said that the dimming problem starts after about ten minutes of playing
music. If you continue to play loud music, does the dimming get
progressively worse over time? It sounds like the combined demands of your
car's electrical system, stereo system, and the charging requirements of
your battery are more than your alternator can handle.

I would suggest installing an inexpensive amperage gauge to find out how
well your alternator is keeping up with the demands being placed on it. If
the stereo and electrical system are consuming more energy than the
alternator can provide, then your battery will discharge over time, and no
amount of capacitance will solve your problem.

Scott Gardner

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