Justin Ulysses Morse
Anybody know of a
standalone reverb unit that's easier to use than an actual chamber and
less expensive than a real plate reverb, but still sounds decent?

Justin, you've seen Bob Buontempo's article on building a plate verb
haven't you? You're "handy" as they say, why don't you build a plate reverb
yourself? They'll sell you a parts "kit" (around $350), you just have to get
the actual plate and buiid the frame and box yourself. If you listen to the
MP3's they have online of how the plate reverb's they built sound maybe that
will inspire you ...

http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording...late/plate.php


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Fox And Friends/Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:
We went ahead and bought the Roland SRV-3030 I was talking about a
couple weeks ago, but I haven't sold the PCM-60 yet. And I'm not sure
I'm going to. Right now I have FOUR digital reverbs stacked up and I
don't like ANY of them! I have an ART 01A, a PCM60, an Ensonic DP/4,
and the Roland SRV-3030.

What I really LOVE about the PCM60 is the control surface. It ONLY
does reverb, and it has very few controls. No test displays, no menus,
no pre-sets. Just ****ing reverb.

What I really DON'T love about the PCM60 is the way it sounds. It's
not terrible, but it's not wonderful either. Which is why I have all
these other boxes piled up. snipppp.....
ulysses



Sounds to me like you really want a real plate but that's a different
story. Don't you have a Lex 200 also? I like those a lot.

I'm fond of my PCM60 because it's so simple. Mine has the Jim
Williams/Audio Upgrades mod which helped it out a bit. A bit clearer and
smoother & less grainy. Maybe you should consider that?

I use the room setting set with size-large and Reverb Time-short as a
generic starting point. I don't like the plate sound as much, but maybe
that's because I have an EMT140.

I once had a Sony 201 which I thought sounded very nice but I hated
programming it. Have you tried a Roland SRV2000? Those are going cheap
and you can use it to heat your place in the winter.
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ 07701

Phone: 732-842-3853 Fax: 732-842-5631

http://www.retromedia.net

How much for the old ART 01a ??


--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 17:13:10 -0500, Justin Ulysses Morse
wrote:

What I really DON'T love about the PCM60 is the way it sounds. It's
not terrible, but it's not wonderful either.

For years, I've liked it on the occasional kick drum reverb, and it
seems to do that effect better than most boxes. Other than that, I
don't like it much at all.

mark

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:31:36 GMT, Rob Adelman
wrote:

Doesn't make much difference if the sound sucks.

You should get a job as A&R at a major label. You have the right
qualifications.

Mark

Mark Stebbeds wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 22:31:36 GMT, Rob Adelman
wrote:


Doesn't make much difference if the sound sucks.


You should get a job as A&R at a major label. You have the right
qualifications.

Cool, do you think they'll have me?

"EggHd" wrote in message ...

Digital reverb is such a personal taste thing.

Indeed. I think the 01a makes some of the best snare verb sounds a
body could have in the personal kit. Grainy, metallic, everything bad
about a reverb... but smoothly done. Make sense?

I've had my eyes on one of them locally for about 11 years, and even
with his Sony 7 series set, his TC Ms and his Yammy stuff, I doubt
it will ever leave his studio. It's even got Howard "Crockett" Hausey's
chocolate milk inside it somewhere.

Lay out a nice AKG BX-10 though, and we can just put it on everything
as needed to make a great space.

I've never used Justin's Ensoniq or Roland boxes, but I wouldn't mind
relieving him of the 01a if the price was right.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:
Maybe I'll just have to stick with the PCM60. Anybody know of a
standalone reverb unit that's easier to use than an actual chamber and
less expensive than a real plate reverb, but still sounds decent?

In Europe, plate reverbs I have seen EMT 140's go for $1500-$2000,
but.. How about a Yamaha SPX-990? Lexicon MPX-1 might also be worth
checking out.

Timo

MAMS\ wrote:

How much for the old ART 01a ??

Well, the current plan is to not sell it because it's probably not
worth enough. We bought it from a Paisley Park garage sale a couple
years ago for like $30 (less than the price of a crappy plastic
tambourine with a TAFKAP symbol on it!) and I can't imagine getting
much more than that for it. The ART really doesn't sound any worse
than the rest of them (different, but not worse) and the interface is
reasonably straightforward (though you have to guess what some of the
numbers mean). If it had the MXR logo on it instead of ART, we'd
probably use it more. So unless they suddenly gain cult status because
****ing Radiohead pees on one in public, pushing the Ebay price through
the roof, we probably won't bother selling it.

ulysses

Thanks for all the suggestions, fellas. I've got a few ideas to
revisit...

Rob Adelman wrote:

Get rid of the 3030 and get a 330 instead. Sounds as good, or better,
and much easier to use.

I don't really have a problem with how the 3030 sounds, I mean out of
the 100 presets I found two or three that didn't completely suck, so I
know I can use it if I can manage to save some of my own settings...the
thing has a known tendency to "reboot" in the middle of saving a user
preset. I like the fact that the 3030 has stereo XLR in and out, as
well as S/PDIF, and it's 24-bit. Usually I'll only feed it with one
signal anyway but it seems like a more modern, professional unit than
the 330. But I wouldn't mind comparing the two.

What I really LOVE about the PCM60 is the control surface. It ONLY
does reverb, and it has very few controls. No test displays, no menus,
no pre-sets. Just ****ing reverb.

Doesn't make much difference if the sound sucks. Get an M2000, or 3000
if you can swing it.

Well, the PCM60 doesn't suck. It does a couple of things pretty well.
It doesn't do "sparkly" reverb at all, and if you try, you just start
hearing how grainy the thing is. Why do digital reverbs always sound
like a gated reverb even when they're not? But for smooth and mellow,
the PCM60 is definitely usable as long as there's some spring reverb in
there too to smooth it out. I just wish I could find something that
will do that stupid, fake modern "sparkly" reverb sound without ten
pages of menus and thirty "special" effects and a bunch of MIDI
horse****.


WillStG wrote:

Justin, you've seen Bob Buontempo's article on building a plate verb
haven't you? You're "handy" as they say, why don't you build a plate reverb
yourself? They'll sell you a parts "kit" (around $350), you just have to get
the actual plate and buiid the frame and box yourself. If you listen to the
MP3's they have online of how the plate reverb's they built sound maybe that
will inspire you ...

http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording...late/plate.php

Thanks for the pointer toward the soundfiles, though I couldn't get to
them. I've read the article, and also talked to JAmes Cunningham and
have his plans as well. The part that stuck me is I'd like to EITHER
invest an assload of time and energy building something OR dump a bunch
of money into it -- NOT BOTH. I should probably just break down and
build one, but it's one of about 20 "very important" projects I'd like
to tackle after I get about 20 "mission critical" projects done. I'm
skeptical of an MP3 selling me on a reverb, but if it sounds
signifigantly better than the "plate" settings on most digital boxes,
I'm sold.


John Noll wrote:

Sounds to me like you really want a real plate but that's a different
story. Don't you have a Lex 200 also? I like those a lot.

No, but I've used them a bit. Never loved the things, but now I'm
starting to think the 200 is everything I could hope for out of a
digital reverb. I'm just going to have a few more analog options to
seal the deal. If I had a really good spring (which I do), a plate, a
room, and a Lex 200 I'd probably be pretty happy most of the time.

I'm fond of my PCM60 because it's so simple. Mine has the Jim
Williams/Audio Upgrades mod which helped it out a bit. A bit clearer and
smoother & less grainy. Maybe you should consider that?

I'm not convinced I agree with his tastes, but in the case of a digital
reverb I think it would be appropriate. What kinds of stuff did he do?
All power supply and coupling caps, or was there real surgery involved?

I use the room setting set with size-large and Reverb Time-short as a
generic starting point. I don't like the plate sound as much, but maybe
that's because I have an EMT140.

I found there are a couple of settings that work well. Like, the
reverb time and room size need to be set to reciprocal positions. And
the plate sounds okay with the high contour on, but the room needs it
off. Maybe I should think about updating the analog parts of that
thing.

I once had a Sony 201 which I thought sounded very nice but I hated
programming it. Have you tried a Roland SRV2000? Those are going cheap
and you can use it to heat your place in the winter.

I hate to keep buying cheapo boxes that I'll never be entirely pleased
with. I've got too many already. I'd sell them all and buy one
expensive box if I thought it would polish the brass.


Bill Thompson wrote:

MIDIQuest is a windows universal editor/librarian, if you already have a
PC in the studio this might help to mitigate the tweaking on things like
the DP/4 (I have the DP/2 and wouldn't use it without MIDIQuest!) I also
like hardware controllers, I use an MRC with my LXP-1 and LXP-5 (I also
use MIDIQuest to make sure I don't lose any killer patches!). I used to
use a JLCooper MIDIFader to control the parameters on a bunch of stuff.

Jesus, that's the last thing I need, is to get a computer involved and
have a bunch of little middies running all over the rug. I sound like
a technophobe ranting like this, and that's not actually the case but
external control of a reverb is definitely the opposite direction from
where I'm looking. There's OTHER things I use the computer for, I just
don't want to be dicking around with menus and stuff trying to get a
reverb sound. I need to be LISTENING when I'm setting up a reverb
sound, NOT "navigating."


JP Gerard jpgerard@skynet wrote:

So far the only box that I really like is the Yamaha REV500.

See, I came THIS close to buying one of those too, but then didn't. I
wonder if it would just be another one of these backlit displays piled
up on my desk right now, waiting to get traded in. At least it ONLY
does reverb, if I remember right, and it seemed to have a slightly less
complex interface. But still something you could get lost in while the
clock's runnning. But I bet they're dirt cheap by now...

ulysses

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote in message ...

---snip---
Is it too much to ask to for a reverb unit to JUST do reverb, without
any amp simulators or flangers? Could I have just a little less
"flexibility" please? If I plug sound into input 3 on my DP/4, I would
like to get a reverbed version of that sound out of output 3, all the
time. I don't want to try and figure out a bunch of secret handshakes
to avoid getting input 1 out of output 3. I don't want to RTFM. I
just want to turn the ****ing thing on and hear reverb. ---snip---

Maybe you should just get an old Fisher Space-Expander :-)

(Hey, if it was good enough for the top 40 AM I started at back in the 70s...)

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

We went ahead and bought the Roland SRV-3030 I was talking about a
couple weeks ago, but I haven't sold the PCM-60 yet. And I'm not sure
I'm going to. Right now I have FOUR digital reverbs stacked up and I
don't like ANY of them! I have an ART 01A, a PCM60, an Ensonic DP/4,
and the Roland SRV-3030.


FWIW, I'm a 'beta-bitch' for the Kurzweil "Rumour"... still haven't read
the manual yet [I suppose I'm going to have to in order to figure out how
to store the patch modifications I've done]... but I have to say that it
sounds lovely. The plates actually sound like plates, the chambers are
quite useful, and the other weird noises don't suck [flanges and choruses
and delays... oh my].

I don't think it's out yet [I still have some ****ing with it to do... and
two pages of notes to deliver to Kurzweil]... but when it does come out it
might be worth investigating.
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"

transducr wrote:


if you're really after a dedicated rackmount solution, i suppose this
will do you no good, but the Altiverb plug-in reverb is absolutely
superb. it's far and away my favorite digital reverb. it's a sampling
reverb simlar to those mega-expensive Sony and Yamaha ones.

if you have a mac in the studio and pretty much any interface/software
you can run this plug. i think it's available in all the major formats
(HTDM, RTAS, MAS, VST).

Well, I've got LOTS of Macintoshes in the studio. But the most recent
is a 400MHz G3. No G4s in the joing. AFAIK, Altiverb requires the
Altivec engine in the G4 processor. So, running this program would
cost at least $800 or so for a 2nd-hand G4 PLUS the cost of the
software, and audio interface hardware. And I'd still have a reverb
with TONS of imbedded menus (I'd have a whole OS to deal with on top of
the reverb settings). For that kind of money, I could buy a plate or a
224XL or something. BUT I am very interested in hearing the Altiverb,
I've gotten some good reports and of course I WILL have a G4 in the
studio eventually.

ulysses

"AudioGaff" wrote in message ...
Scope out the Princeton Digital remake of the Eventide
SP2016. Great old fasion reverb, with modern control and
real knobs to easily tweak. www.eventide.com for the
specific details
--


I'll second that recommendation...pending hearing one first,
obviously. But I always loved the original SP-2016, & when I saw the
front panel for the PrincetonDigital unit I got major wood, thinking
"holy ****, someone finally made a real digital reverb that's as easy
to use as a PCM-60!"

(BTW, PCM-60 Room w/ Size=Largest & Decay=Shortest was patched around
nearly every single kick drum I mixed from 1984-91.)

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote:

Maybe I'll just have to stick with the PCM60. Anybody know of a
standalone reverb unit that's easier to use than an actual chamber and
less expensive than a real plate reverb, but still sounds decent? I'm
looking for a sonic step up from the PCM60, I'm not going to dick
around with a computer, and I'm not going to spend three grand on it.

LXP-1---but you are dealing with a wallwart levels that may be better
than -10 but sure aren't +4.

LXP-15, it's a multi effect but its reverbs are underrated. Still not
+4.

Tascam TMD1000 digital mixer. The effects sound VERY good in this.
Except for the compression/dynamics stuff which is crap. These mixers
are worth getting just for the swiss army knife factor. You can use
them as midi controllers, effects units, good digital eq, format
convertors, monitor mixers (got DA88s running analog into a mixer?
use the mixer on the digital outs for additional mixes).

I even sometimes take it on remote. I love the fact that there is way
less cable hook-up.

Oother than the dynamics, if I had one complaint, it is that the convertors
are disappointing.

But for effects, it may be okay.

I just never convert through it anything critical.

Rob R.

Has anyone suggested a Sony R7? Although it is a bit cryptic on the
programming side, it's pretty much dedicated to reverb and sounds very nice.

charles

"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message .. .
Has anyone suggested a Sony R7? Although it is a bit cryptic on the
programming side, it's pretty much dedicated to reverb and sounds very nice.

charles



The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin is trying
to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'. Terrific box.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin is
trying
to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'. Terrific box.

I've heard that before...

I have one sitting in a closet in my Brazilian studio. I've tried selling it
many times, but I think U$2k is too much for the market down there...
eheheh.

charles

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Morgan (MAMS)"
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Damn, digital reverb (still)



"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message
.. .
Has anyone suggested a Sony R7? Although it is a bit cryptic on the
programming side, it's pretty much dedicated to reverb and sounds very
nice.

charles



The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin is
trying
to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'. Terrific box.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message .. .
The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin is
trying to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'.
Terrific box.

I've heard that before...

I have one sitting in a closet in my Brazilian studio. I've tried selling it
many times, but I think U$2k is too much for the market down there...
eheheh.

Don't tease me.... in the CLOSET ?!? :-\

DM

my original soap-dish midiverb and midifx were the greatest. No adjustments at
all. No choices. Too bad about that decay sound and the funny power supply
(CT?)


P h i l i p

______________________________

"I'm too ****ing busy and vice-versa"

- Dorothy Parker

I don't get back as often as I'd like, and even when I'm there, I don't do
much work at home. But it really is difficult to part with. It even
congratulates me on my birthday. How could you part with something like
that?



charles


"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
...

"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message
.. .
The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price
it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin
is
trying to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'.
Terrific box.

I've heard that before...

I have one sitting in a closet in my Brazilian studio. I've tried
selling it
many times, but I think U$2k is too much for the market down there...
eheheh.

Don't tease me.... in the CLOSET ?!? :-\

DM

"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote:

"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message .. .
The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin is
trying to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'.
Terrific box.

I've heard that before...

I have one sitting in a closet in my Brazilian studio. I've tried selling it
many times, but I think U$2k is too much for the market down there...
eheheh.

Don't tease me.... in the CLOSET ?!? :-\

DM

It is Brazil, after all.

--
Les Cargill

So unless they suddenly gain cult status because
****ing Radiohead pees on one in public, pushing the Ebay price through
the roof, we probably won't bother selling it.


LOL. Damn that cracked me up.

"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message .. .
I don't get back as often as I'd like, and even when I'm there, I don't do
much work at home. But it really is difficult to part with. It even
congratulates me on my birthday. How could you part with something like
that?



charles


I won't tell anybody if you won't, that the coolest thing in displays is being
told, "Good Morning Mr. _______" by a piece of hardware. Very silly, but
somehow comforting. g

I have a birthday, too, if you ever wanna' sell. Meanwhile, don't let the darn
battery die on ya'.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com



"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote in message
...

"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message
.. .
The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price
it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin
is
trying to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'.
Terrific box.

I've heard that before...

I have one sitting in a closet in my Brazilian studio. I've tried
selling it
many times, but I think U$2k is too much for the market down there...
eheheh.

Don't tease me.... in the CLOSET ?!? :-\

DM

"Les Cargill" wrote in message ...
"David Morgan (MAMS)" wrote:

"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message .. .
The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin is
trying to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'.
Terrific box.

I've heard that before...

I have one sitting in a closet in my Brazilian studio. I've tried selling it
many times, but I think U$2k is too much for the market down there...
eheheh.

Don't tease me.... in the CLOSET ?!? :-\

DM

It is Brazil, after all.
--
Les Cargill

Hey... it's just talk amongst 'the boys'.

DM

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1057928259k@trad...
In article writes:

I know the conversation has been strictly about dedicated outboard
units, but i thought i'd mention another option.

if you're really after a dedicated rackmount solution, i suppose this
will do you no good, but the Altiverb plug-in reverb is absolutely
superb. it's far and away my favorite digital reverb. it's a sampling
reverb simlar to those mega-expensive Sony and Yamaha ones.

OK, so what's the bottom line system if you want this and want an
outboard reverb. What Mac does it take to run, and what's a reasonable
stereo audio I/O worthy of the quality of the audio you'd want to run
through it. And the big kicker - what's the throughput delay? That
would be the minimum amount of pre-delay you could get with a reverb
program.

I suspect that it would be possible to put together a dedicated box to
be your reverb that consists of a computer, program, and I/O. If you
don't try to also make it your recorder and mixer, it should last for
years without being destroyed by upgrades or additions.

i should've been more specific than just saying "a macintosh".

as justin pointed out in response to my post, it's also my
understanding that (as the name would suggest) Altiverb runs on
Altivec enabled processors, namely the G4. i'm not sure what the story
is with the new IBM G5s...i really haven't read up on it well enough.
i seem to remember them throwing around the term 'Velocity
Engine'...anyway, i'd assume (?) the plug will be running on the G5s
as well.

of course, as you point out there is quite a bit of play when
considering what route you'd want to go as far as I/O, etc. latency
would be an issue, but to me personally, not a very big one when
dealing with reverb; but with some other FX it might be slightly more
of an issue. and of course latency would vary depending on the
situation: what kind if interface you choose, whether your I/O was
strictly digital (maybe using a digital mixer) or going through a few
conversions, etc...

mainly my suggestion was not so much suggesting buying all that stuff
as an alternate solution, but if you had that stuff already (a G4,
satisfactory I/O, etc.) then buying the plug-in for use in that
fashion with stuff you already have might not be a bad workaround.

i have actually thought before that what you proposed (rackmounting a
computer to use it in a dedicated role as an FX box) would certainly
have it's advantages. unfortunately, it seems like a job for a PC
(cost-wise) and Altiverb is really the only software that makes me
wish i had that kind of setup. it can be quite greedy with the CPU and
it would be nice to have it doing it's own thing with dedicated
hardware, but i don't think i could have a G4 just doing that...well,
i *know* i couldn't!! i'm still paying off the G4 i use for my
workstation!

didn't lexicon make a nubus card years back that supposedly had the
300 algorithms and only aes/ebu I/O? i've heard people mention them
before, but never got the straight dirt on them (i might be getting
some of that wrong). only that some people were using them in old
nubus macs in basically the way we're disucssing....except of course
that the card was doing all the processing...the computer being
necessary for the interface but basically incidental besides that.

Dbx made a knockoff of the PCM-60 a while back, it was in their
"Project 1" series. Chances are it sounds like ass tho...

I have a Project 1 stereo three way crossover and it sounds ok but
then again the PA stuff I am running through is 1982 vintage so how
could I tell?

I bet the Project 1 is really cheap, maybe $50 so it might be worth
checking out.



I bought one of those dbx Project 1 reverbs when it first came out.
I thought it was completely useless. Couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

--
--
John Noll
Retromedia Sound Studios
Red Bank, NJ 07701

Phone: 732-842-3853 Fax: 732-842-5631

http://www.retromedia.net

In article writes:

i have actually thought before that what you proposed (rackmounting a
computer to use it in a dedicated role as an FX box) would certainly
have it's advantages. unfortunately, it seems like a job for a PC
(cost-wise) and Altiverb is really the only software that makes me
wish i had that kind of setup.

didn't lexicon make a nubus card years back that supposedly had the
300 algorithms and only aes/ebu I/O?

Yes, and one of the hardware DSP card manufacturers (who changed names
and I can't remember which it is, and was) had, as its first
application, the concept of using "that old PC that was too slow now"
with one of their cards (which had analog in and out) as an outboard
signal processor. They had a reverb program with cool graphics for the
user interface, and promised several other effects to follow, but then
they figured out how to make the card work with other programs and the
concept went out the window.

Last year, we saw the introduction of Plugzilla, a dedicated hardware
box with both analog and digital I/O into which you could load your
favorite DAW plug-ins and run them as if they were stand-alone
processors, complete with fairly meaningful front panel controls. But
this is expensive stuff, and these days, for the majority of the
customers, cheeeep rules.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )

Analogeezer wrote:


So far I think the verbs sound better than anything else I own
(PCM-81, MPX-1, TC M-2000, TSR-24, REV-500).

That wouldn't surprise me. If I recall, Sony was the first company
(early 80's) that made real high end digital reverbs. I seem to recall
mention of one that was $50,000 plus.

-Rob

"Analogeezer" wrote in message om...
"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" wrote in message ...
"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message .. .
Has anyone suggested a Sony R7? Although it is a bit cryptic on the
programming side, it's pretty much dedicated to reverb and sounds very nice.

charles



The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin is trying
to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'. Terrific box.

They are on Ebone all the time....they usually run about $300 - $350.


I have it saved as a favorite search under "Rack Gear / Sony"... so I must
not be visiting often enough unless there's a better category search. (?)

I'm not sure that Sony has display parts for these... have you checked yet?
(Inquiring minds - since the only times I've come close... display problems)

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s.com
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

Justin Ulysses Morse
Thanks for the pointer toward the soundfiles, though I couldn't get to them.


Actually that was mainly a link to the article. The soundfiles are at

http://www.errico-associates.com/Hear_the_Plate.htm
It has drums dry and then with the plate, and on a few instruments as well.

I've read the article, and also talked to JAmes Cunningham and have his plans
as well. The part that stuck me is I'd like to EITHER invest an assload of
time and energy building something OR dump a bunch of money into it -- NOT BOTH


Yeah, well. But no digital reverb is ever going to sound like a plate, so
why not build one? I'm thinking of maybe building one in a brushed aluminum
frame and boxing it in plexiglass so it is visually a piece of art as well.
You could always just spring for Altiverb, a G4 or a G5, and a decent interface
converter. A plate impulse sample on one of those set ups is probably much
closer than most anything else, and you get a bunch of halls and unusual spaces
as well.


Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Fox And Friends/Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

How about selling one of your G3s and reducing the cost from $800 to the
cost of an upgrade?

-S

"Justin Ulysses Morse" wrote in message
...
transducr wrote:


if you're really after a dedicated rackmount solution, i suppose this
will do you no good, but the Altiverb plug-in reverb is absolutely
superb. it's far and away my favorite digital reverb. it's a sampling
reverb simlar to those mega-expensive Sony and Yamaha ones.

if you have a mac in the studio and pretty much any interface/software
you can run this plug. i think it's available in all the major formats
(HTDM, RTAS, MAS, VST).

Well, I've got LOTS of Macintoshes in the studio. But the most recent
is a 400MHz G3. No G4s in the joing. AFAIK, Altiverb requires the
Altivec engine in the G4 processor. So, running this program would
cost at least $800 or so for a 2nd-hand G4 PLUS the cost of the
software, and audio interface hardware. And I'd still have a reverb
with TONS of imbedded menus (I'd have a whole OS to deal with on top of
the reverb settings). For that kind of money, I could buy a plate or a
224XL or something. BUT I am very interested in hearing the Altiverb,
I've gotten some good reports and of course I WILL have a G4 in the
studio eventually.

ulysses

"WillStG" wrote in message
...
Yeah, I have liked the Sony R7
better on some singers than a Lexicon 480
...

I usually hesitate before making similar comments... But, yes, most of the
time, I'll take an R7 over a 480. For a whole range of sources. I just like
the very open sounding Sony reverbs rather than the more dense and
heavy-on-the-personality Lexicon verbs...

charles

"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" wrote in message ...
"Analogeezer" wrote in message om...
"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" wrote in message ...
"Charles Di Pinto" wrote in message .. .
Has anyone suggested a Sony R7? Although it is a bit cryptic on the
programming side, it's pretty much dedicated to reverb and sounds very nice.

charles



The problem is finding one. I've been asking for one here for about
five years, but no one is willing to part with theirs, or they price it so
that it won't sell. It's a 'tweakers' paradise (which I think Justin is trying
to avoid) with many presets that sound great 'as is'. Terrific box.

They are on Ebone all the time....they usually run about $300 - $350.


I have it saved as a favorite search under "Rack Gear / Sony"... so I must
not be visiting often enough unless there's a better category search. (?)

I'm not sure that Sony has display parts for these... have you checked yet?
(Inquiring minds - since the only times I've come close... display problems)

People list the Sony stuff in strange ways that does not show up in a
model name search or brand name search...the best way I found was to
search on something obvious, like MPX-1, the go to that category
(yadda, yadda, rack gear, processors), then just search on "Sony".

I'll let you know what I find out about the display, mine is not that
bad but I would like to get it fixed in case something goes wrong
totally with it.

Analogeezer

John Noll wrote in message ...
Dbx made a knockoff of the PCM-60 a while back, it was in their
"Project 1" series. Chances are it sounds like ass tho...

I have a Project 1 stereo three way crossover and it sounds ok but
then again the PA stuff I am running through is 1982 vintage so how
could I tell?

I bet the Project 1 is really cheap, maybe $50 so it might be worth
checking out.



I bought one of those dbx Project 1 reverbs when it first came out.
I thought it was completely useless. Couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

--


Yeah at the time I figured Dbx had never made an effect, so for the
price how good could it be.

You could tell with the button interface, limited number of options,
etc. they were definetely trying to cop the PCM-60 vibe though, these
days you could sell one on Ebay by saying "like PCM-60"

Analogeezer

See if you can find a Dynacord DRP20. You won't be dissapointed if you
can find one. I picked one up for $400 a while back. 32 bit, Made it
Germany. Very cool sounding. I also have a DRP15 if you want to try
it. I'd sell it cheap. The unit is pseudo-stereo though. Sounds really
good.

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote in message ...
We went ahead and bought the Roland SRV-3030 I was talking about a
couple weeks ago, but I haven't sold the PCM-60 yet. And I'm not sure
I'm going to. Right now I have FOUR digital reverbs stacked up and I
don't like ANY of them! I have an ART 01A, a PCM60, an Ensonic DP/4,
and the Roland SRV-3030.

What I really LOVE about the PCM60 is the control surface. It ONLY
does reverb, and it has very few controls. No test displays, no menus,
no pre-sets. Just ****ing reverb.

What I really DON'T love about the PCM60 is the way it sounds. It's
not terrible, but it's not wonderful either. Which is why I have all
these other boxes piled up. The Ensoniq and the Roland are both
capable of making some sounds that I like better than the PCM60, but
only after wrestling with the stupid interface for WAY too long. And
then, when you try to fine-tune it, you end up accidentally switching
it to some bull**** vocoder effect instead. If it ****es me off when
I'm sitting alone in the studio goofing off, there's no WAY I'm going
to jerk around with it while a client is waiting for me to get a mix.
Is it too much to ask to for a reverb unit to JUST do reverb, without
any amp simulators or flangers? Could I have just a little less
"flexibility" please? If I plug sound into input 3 on my DP/4, I would
like to get a reverbed version of that sound out of output 3, all the
time. I don't want to try and figure out a bunch of secret handshakes
to avoid getting input 1 out of output 3. I don't want to RTFM. I
just want to turn the ****ing thing on and hear reverb. I've tried out
the 224XL which sounds lovely, but is too maintenance-intensive and too
cumbersome to navigate. The Lexicon 200 is a reasonable compromise
between parameter control and interface simplicity, but it doesn't
sound anywhere near as good as its pricetag suggests. If it sounded
like chocoloate-covered God on a stick, I'd happily deal with the
interface of the 200 and wouldn't complain about paying $1200 for one
(I think that's what they go for lately).

Maybe I'll just have to stick with the PCM60. Anybody know of a
standalone reverb unit that's easier to use than an actual chamber and
less expensive than a real plate reverb, but still sounds decent? I'm
looking for a sonic step up from the PCM60, I'm not going to dick
around with a computer, and I'm not going to spend three grand on it.

In the meantime I'm putting spring reverb on the digital reverb to make
it sound like reverb.

ulysses

Hi

My favs
Roland R-880
EMT 246 but for a cheaper unit the 245 is nice. These are hard to find,
but prices are ok in Europe ($800 for the 245?)
Sorry to mention it, but an EMT 140 plate! I know it´s not digital, but
you could put an AD/DA before it ;-)
David



What I really DON'T love about the PCM60 is the way it sounds. It's
not terrible, but it's not wonderful either. Which is why I have all
these other boxes piled up. The Ensoniq and the Roland are both
capable of making some sounds that I like better than the PCM60, but
only after wrestling with the stupid interface for WAY too long. And
then, when you try to fine-tune it, you end up accidentally switching
it to some bull**** vocoder effect instead. If it ****es me off when
I'm sitting alone in the studio goofing off, there's no WAY I'm going
to jerk around with it while a client is waiting for me to get a mix.
Is it too much to ask to for a reverb unit to JUST do reverb, without
any amp simulators or flangers? Could I have just a little less
"flexibility" please? If I plug sound into input 3 on my DP/4, I would
like to get a reverbed version of that sound out of output 3, all the
time. I don't want to try and figure out a bunch of secret handshakes
to avoid getting input 1 out of output 3. I don't want to RTFM. I
just want to turn the ****ing thing on and hear reverb. I've tried out
the 224XL which sounds lovely, but is too maintenance-intensive and too
cumbersome to navigate. The Lexicon 200 is a reasonable compromise
between parameter control and interface simplicity, but it doesn't
sound anywhere near as good as its pricetag suggests. If it sounded
like chocoloate-covered God on a stick, I'd happily deal with the
interface of the 200 and wouldn't complain about paying $1200 for one
(I think that's what they go for lately).

Maybe I'll just have to stick with the PCM60. Anybody know of a
standalone reverb unit that's easier to use than an actual chamber and
less expensive than a real plate reverb, but still sounds decent? I'm
looking for a sonic step up from the PCM60, I'm not going to dick
around with a computer, and I'm not going to spend three grand on it.

In the meantime I'm putting spring reverb on the digital reverb to make
it sound like reverb.

ulysses

In article ,
transducr wrote:
didn't lexicon make a nubus card years back that supposedly had the
300 algorithms and only aes/ebu I/O? i've heard people mention them
before, but never got the straight dirt on them (i might be getting
some of that wrong). only that some people were using them in old
nubus macs in basically the way we're disucssing....except of course
that the card was doing all the processing...the computer being
necessary for the interface but basically incidental besides that.

Yes, it's called the NuVerb. A fun box, but they didn't bring all the
300 presets (like pitch) into it, so it's slightly less interesting
than a 300. But, it has very dense algorithms and a few old grainy
programs too. Some people hate it, some people love it, and I find it
quite useful a good bit of the time. I've still got four of them and
I use them quite regularly in a 1991 vintage Mac IIfx. Works great
with a DAW... slightly more annoying with an analog mix setup since
you have to add your own converters to the reverb. For me, it's
straight AES in and out - what could be simpler. Editing is quite
simple too with the graphical interface. You get few paging and
scrolling hassles like most modern hardware Lexicons... just direct,
random access parameter tweaking for the most part.

That and an M3000 and I'd be pretty happy most of the time. Of
course, a nice plate and chamber would probably make me ignore all of
this, but that hasn't happened yet.

To Justin: why all the attention to digital reverbs from the mid 80s?
Most of the stuff you mentioned was from the deep dark days of reverb
and, while there's a lot of junk out there now, some of the modern
stuff isn't all that bad either. Don't get me wrong - old grainy
processors can be fun, but if you want sparkly, rich, lush reverbs,
you should think about mechanical plates, real acoustic chambers or
really modern high end digital boxes, not ancient crap that was lucky
to make a convincing illusion at all using nearly zero computing power
and memory. Some things really have improved over the past 10-15
years...


Regards,

Monte McGuire

Justin Ulysses Morse wrote in message ...
We went ahead and bought the Roland SRV-3030 I was talking about a
couple weeks ago, but I haven't sold the PCM-60 yet. And I'm not sure
I'm going to. Right now I have FOUR digital reverbs stacked up and I
don't like ANY of them! I have an ART 01A, a PCM60, an Ensonic DP/4,
and the Roland SRV-3030.

What I really LOVE about the PCM60 is the control surface. It ONLY
does reverb, and it has very few controls. No test displays, no menus,
no pre-sets. Just ****ing reverb.

What I really DON'T love about the PCM60 is the way it sounds. It's
not terrible, but it's not wonderful either. Which is why I have all
these other boxes piled up. The Ensoniq and the Roland are both
capable of making some sounds that I like better than the PCM60, but
only after wrestling with the stupid interface for WAY too long. And
then, when you try to fine-tune it, you end up accidentally switching
it to some bull**** vocoder effect instead. If it ****es me off when
I'm sitting alone in the studio goofing off, there's no WAY I'm going
to jerk around with it while a client is waiting for me to get a mix.
Is it too much to ask to for a reverb unit to JUST do reverb, without
any amp simulators or flangers? Could I have just a little less
"flexibility" please? If I plug sound into input 3 on my DP/4, I would
like to get a reverbed version of that sound out of output 3, all the
time. I don't want to try and figure out a bunch of secret handshakes
to avoid getting input 1 out of output 3. I don't want to RTFM. I
just want to turn the ****ing thing on and hear reverb. I've tried out
the 224XL which sounds lovely, but is too maintenance-intensive and too
cumbersome to navigate. The Lexicon 200 is a reasonable compromise
between parameter control and interface simplicity, but it doesn't
sound anywhere near as good as its pricetag suggests. If it sounded
like chocoloate-covered God on a stick, I'd happily deal with the
interface of the 200 and wouldn't complain about paying $1200 for one
(I think that's what they go for lately).

Maybe I'll just have to stick with the PCM60. Anybody know of a
standalone reverb unit that's easier to use than an actual chamber and
less expensive than a real plate reverb, but still sounds decent? I'm
looking for a sonic step up from the PCM60, I'm not going to dick
around with a computer, and I'm not going to spend three grand on it.

In the meantime I'm putting spring reverb on the digital reverb to make
it sound like reverb.

ulysses

In case you wanted to buy one of those cheapo Dbx digital reverbs,
here is one for cheap...they probably sound like ass though:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tegory=23 790

I think in terms of new or nearly new product the best unit to meet
what you want would be the Princeton 2016, but that is about $800
north of what you want to spend.

I've got a REV500 and it's pretty nice and easy to use, but it's got
the "Yamaha sound" (not a bad thing necessarily) which does not sound
like what you are going for.

I'm real interested in the Princeton, but it's a little pricey for me
(it's a good value but would be the most expensive F/X processor I
would own)...I like the concept of high quality, easy to use, limited
feature set.

I don't see it selling in large volumes though, which means the price
will remain what it is, and I doubt you will see many used ones on the
market.

Maybe you could sell a spare kidney or cornea to fund the purchase?

Analogeezer

In article ,
(Analogeezer) writes:

Maybe I'll just have to stick with the PCM60. Anybody know of a
standalone reverb unit that's easier to use than an actual chamber and
less expensive than a real plate reverb, but still sounds decent? I'm
looking for a sonic step up from the PCM60, I'm not going to dick
around with a computer, and I'm not going to spend three grand on it.

In the meantime I'm putting spring reverb on the digital reverb to make
it sound like reverb.

ulysses

I have the PCM 60 as well and I only like it for small room emulations. You
might try the TC Electronics Mone XL. I think its pretty smooth and seems to
sit well in a mix. The programming interface is well done too.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney