[[email protected]]

Long ago, far away, for my own vocals, I used to use a TLM-103 Great
River Pre RNC HD-24 for my recording chain. I liked it.

Unfortunately, I sold all my gear and now I'm looking at buying a new
setup.

So, I bought myself a new super duper DAW and am trying to figure out
what to put in front of it.

I'm considering the digi 003 rack but I'm getting brain dead. My
dilemma is, that since this puppy (and most other interfaces)
transport the signal via firewire I can't very well put my trusty RNC
between the pre and the computer and there doesn't appear to be any
effects inserts on the 003. . Soooooo... how the heck would I set
that sucker up?

I see the Mackie 400F has channel inserts, but I kinda wanted to do
the Digi Dance. So what do digi people do, just skip the hardware
based compressor and only use the in-the-box software based
compressors?

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 9, 12:00 am, wrote:
Long ago, far away, for my own vocals, I used to use a TLM-103 Great
River Pre RNC HD-24 for my recording chain. I liked it.

So, I bought myself a new super duper DAW and am trying to figure out
what to put in front of it.

Simple. A TLM103, Great River preamp, RNC and how many channels do you
want?

I'm considering the digi 003 rack but I'm getting brain dead. My
dilemma is, that since this puppy (and most other interfaces)
transport the signal via firewire I can't very well put my trusty RNC
between the pre and the computer and there doesn't appear to be any
effects inserts on the 003. . Soooooo... how the heck would I set
that sucker up?

Well, that's the problem with "a box." - A lot of these companies
don't think these things trough very well. There are some Firewire
audio interfaces that have insert jacks, The Mackie 400F is one (but
the computer connection seems to be shaky - some just work and some
just don't work) but you can't use ProTools with it.

So what do digi people do, just skip the hardware
based compressor and only use the in-the-box software based
compressors?

Unfortunately that's what most do, after some frustration. Or they
ignore the mic preamps on a "box" and use an outboard mic preamp and
whatever else they want in the chain, and just go into a line input.
Have you considered the M-Audio M-Powered ProTools using something
like a Delta 1010? That doesn't have any mic inputs so you won't be
"wasting" anything, and you can choose your own mic input channel as
you see fit.

You might even want to consider using something like a small Mackie
mixer in your front end (no, I'm not recommending the Onyx Firewire to
you) so you can have respectable mic preamps, limited channel EQ with
the right patching, a place to patch in your favorite RNC, and good
control over your monitoring while tracking.

[Mark]

I see the Mackie 400F has channel inserts, but I kinda wanted to do
the Digi Dance. So what do digi people do, just skip the hardware
based compressor and only use the in-the-box software based
compressors?

The BIG advantage of "compresing in the box" is that you can adjust
all the settings during the mixing. If you compress going in while
recording, you can't change the settings after the fact.

Mark

[Federico]

You can get a RNP a 2-channels AD converter and a Digidesign M-Box.
F.

[[email protected]]

On Mar 9, 12:00 am, wrote:

I'm considering the digi 003 rack but I'm getting brain dead. My
dilemma is, that since this puppy (and most other interfaces)
transport the signal via firewire I can't very well put my trusty RNC
between the pre and the computer and there doesn't appear to be any
effects inserts on the 003. . Soooooo... how the heck would I set
that sucker up?


True, there aren't any inserts, but just go pre into RNC and take the
output of the RNC into a line input of the 003. I'd be more inclined
to look for an insert on the mic pre than on the interface box.
Using the 003 pres would have you wishing for an insert, but not using
your Great River.



I see the Mackie 400F has channel inserts, but I kinda wanted to do
the Digi Dance. So what do digi people do, just skip the hardware
based compressor and only use the in-the-box software based
compressors?


Since the subject is "recording chain", I'd say hardly anyone uses a
compressor plug-in in recording. You just get the signal in there
and then pull up a compressor on the track after the fact, which puts
it more in the "mix chain" realm. If you want to use the RNC on
tracks already recorded, you only need to assign the track to another
output (not 1 & 2, assuming those are your mix outputs), take that
output into the RNC and back in another input, which gets assigned to
a track outputting to the 1 & 2 mix.

It gets the same DA/AD and 2 mill or so delay that any digital
interface insert to a hardware compressor would give.

[hank alrich]

wrote:

Long ago, far away, for my own vocals, I used to use a TLM-103 Great
River Pre RNC HD-24 for my recording chain. I liked it.

Unfortunately, I sold all my gear and now I'm looking at buying a new
setup.

So, I bought myself a new super duper DAW and am trying to figure out
what to put in front of it.

You could duplicate the rig above and add whatever interface to the
computer you like, whether PT or other. You might look at the Metric
Halo ULN2, which offers a pair of nice preamps with inserts, and a
Firewire computer interface. Very good convertors, and if you get the
+DSP model, plenty of built-in processing, too.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[[email protected]]

Hank: I checked out the Metric Halo (I like their stuff) but it only
has 2 channels and I forgot to mention I need four... And I uhhh
don't have quite as much lunch money to spend this time around so the
GR won't be being replaced any time soon. My music money seems to be
siphoned off to something called a "Tween".

Federico, I liked the Mbox2 pro but I need a couple-o-more channels.

Mark: The little advantage I've enjoyed in compressing to directly to
tape is the vocal feel I get in my monitor headphones when tracking
and then again instant gratification on playback.

I only use compression sparingly so that at mixing time the producer
can still use his magic fairy dust to crystallize the sound. He
usually adds more appropriate compression and then the mastering guy
finalizes it.

Vdub I don't have the GR anymore, I decided to take up digital
photography as a hobby but it sucked money out of my wallet faster
than my musical acquisition habit did. Now I'm selling the photo gear
and getting back into music where I belong.

I do like your idea of using the RNC for already recorded tracks, but
I figure once it's the box, might as well keep it there. I'm not a fan
of delay.

Mike: you've helped me numerous time before, and keeping your streak
alive, you've done it again. While none of the M-Audio interfaces
grabbed me by the neck and said BUY ME, the Mackie ONXY 1220 with the
firecard option , cried out for a look.

I kinda like this thing. But if my understating is correct, the
inserts are pre-fader so the RNC would still out of the recording
chain, but maybe that's
ok.

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 10, 2:21 am, wrote:
While none of the M-Audio interfaces
grabbed me by the neck and said BUY ME, the Mackie ONXY 1220 with the
firecard option , cried out for a look.

Be VERY careful that you understand the routing (and lack thereof)
going in and out of the Firewire interface. It's hard-wired and
doesn't leave you much flexibility. Think of the input chain as a mic
preamp connected directly to an A/D converter, with no inserts (like
many of the Firewire rack mount boxes) - just a straight recording of
what goes into the mic or line input. You have up to 18 of those (14
on the 1220) of which two are the main L/R mix, which can include
whatever is plugged into the Insert jacks and will be affected by
channel EQ. And the playback is only two channels going directly to
the monitor section of the mixer, so you can't use the mixer's
channels to mix your tracks - you have to do your mixing in the
computer.

The Onyx Firewire setup is ideal for use as a live sound mixer where
you want to bring back the show as it was played into the mics and mix
it on your computer. Everything else is going to cause you to scratch
your head now and then, and often be frustrated because you can't do
what you want.

I kinda like this thing. But if my understating is correct, the
inserts are pre-fader so the RNC would still out of the recording
chain, but maybe that's ok.

There's a way you can do it. For example, you can plug a mic into
Channel 1, connect the direct output to the RNC input, connect the RNC
output to the line input of Channel 2, and then record Channel 2. In
fact you can record both Channels 1 and 2 so you'll have a compressed
and uncompressed version of the track. With the 1220, since you have 4
mic inputs and 4 stereo/mono line inputs, you won't waste a lot of
your mixer with this sort of patching. But if you had a 1640 and
wanted to record 16 channels with inserts, you couldn't do it.

[hank alrich]

Mike Rivers wrote:

On Mar 10, 2:21 am, stevenga... wrote:
While none of the M-Audio interfaces
grabbed me by the neck and said BUY ME, the Mackie ONXY 1220 with the
firecard option , cried out for a look.

Be VERY careful that you understand the routing (and lack thereof)
going in and out of the Firewire interface. It's hard-wired and
doesn't leave you much flexibility. Think of the input chain as a mic
preamp connected directly to an A/D converter, with no inserts (like
many of the Firewire rack mount boxes) - just a straight recording of
what goes into the mic or line input. You have up to 18 of those (14
on the 1220) of which two are the main L/R mix, which can include
whatever is plugged into the Insert jacks and will be affected by
channel EQ. And the playback is only two channels going directly to
the monitor section of the mixer, so you can't use the mixer's
channels to mix your tracks - you have to do your mixing in the
computer.

The Onyx Firewire setup is ideal for use as a live sound mixer where
you want to bring back the show as it was played into the mics and mix
it on your computer. Everything else is going to cause you to scratch
your head now and then, and often be frustrated because you can't do
what you want.

I kinda like this thing. But if my understating is correct, the
inserts are pre-fader so the RNC would still out of the recording
chain, but maybe that's ok.

There's a way you can do it. For example, you can plug a mic into
Channel 1, connect the direct output to the RNC input, connect the RNC
output to the line input of Channel 2, and then record Channel 2. In
fact you can record both Channels 1 and 2 so you'll have a compressed
and uncompressed version of the track. With the 1220, since you have 4
mic inputs and 4 stereo/mono line inputs, you won't waste a lot of
your mixer with this sort of patching. But if you had a 1640 and
wanted to record 16 channels with inserts, you couldn't do it.

Add an RNP to the chain and go micRNPRNCOnyx. That'll satisfy,
especially if Steve really liked his GR MP2. This is less money but
still a nice chain.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[[email protected]]

There's a way you can do it. For example, you can plug a mic into
Channel 1, connect the direct output to the RNC input, connect the RNC output to the line input of Channel 2, and then record Channel 2.

Thanks Mike... now you've got me thinking about some interesting
possibilties via "creative routing".

Add an RNP to the chain and go micRNPRNCOnyx. That'll satisfy,
especially if Steve really liked his GR MP2. This is less money but
still a nice chain.

Hank, I hate you, lol. Because if I did that I'd have to re-purchase
the RNP I sold during my "sell the studio" debacle. And then I
wouldn't have hardly any NEW toys. But I certainly did like it so I
might just do that.

I just remembered though that I might need midi down the line for the
keyboard that I don't own anymore. So maybe the Mackie 1220 isn't the
way to go after all. Damn. I thought this was gonna be easy. Oh
well.

So I guess what I want is 1 channel of RNP or similar for my vocals, 2
channels of RNC, 3 Onyx pre's for my custom Taylor, all on an analog
board with faders, meters, inserts, 48v individually switchable
phantom power, control room outs. Firewire in/out and Midi in/out.
And oh yeah, zero latency monitoring, a jack for a remote control like
the Tranzport and a footswitch jack for punching in.

Hmmmm....

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 10, 2:45 pm, wrote:
I just remembered though that I might need midi down the line for the
keyboard that I don't own anymore.

If you get a new keyboard, chances are pretty good that it will have a
USB connector for MIDI. And if you need a MIDI interface with standard
DIN connectors, M-Audio and Edirol make inexpensive ones that connect
to the computer via the USB port. I have an Edirol that cost about $30
and gives me a port to connect my Mackie HDR24/96 so I can control it
from the computer and get a big time display on the screen (thanks to
Bob Smith for the program).

So I guess what I want is 1 channel of RNP or similar for my vocals, 2
channels of RNC, 3 Onyx pre's for my custom Taylor . . . .

and a part-ridge in a pear tree.