[Nil]

On 14 Nov 2011, Les Cargill wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

So they say. I have been using Eusing ( heh! ) weekly or so for
about two years now, and absolutely no problems t'all.

No problems... yet, and maybe never. But the potential is there. But I
doubt you've received any real benefit, either.

I use a Registry cleaner (CCleaner) occasionally to find questionable
entries. If I feel certain I understand what that entry does and that
it is truly unnecessary, I might allow the cleaner to clean. If I don't
really know what that entry is about, I leave it be. But it's all
mostly to satisfy my neatness urge - I've never noticed any performance
benefit.

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Les wrote in message
...
Nil wrote:
On 13 Nov 2011, Mike wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I use Revo Uninstaller when I can remember, but every time I
try a registry cleaner, I chicken out. They all leave me to
make decisions about things I don't know enough about to be
sure of.

That's a healthy attitude. Registry "cleaners" are mostly snake oil.
They make the anal-retentive among us (me, for one) feel neater and
tidier and superior, but they almost never result in improved
performance and they all are capable of royally screwing up your
computer.


So they say. I have been using Eusing ( heh! ) weekly or so for about two
years now, and absolutely no problems t'all.

Question being, what actual hard benefits are being received from the use of
Eusing?



When I was running XP, I'd rebuild the machine twice a year. Eusing
knocked that back to once a year. To be sure, I also started
using Revo Uninstaller at the same time ( Revo deletes registry entries
associated with the program to be uninstalled ).

So that's a nonzero benefit. Figure six hours for a rebuild against vs
.... 2 minutes once a week.

Maybe I'm lucky, but I have never run into a case where anything
in the registry was critical.

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Nil wrote:
On 14 Nov 2011, wrote in rec.audio.pro:

And you can't back up the registry first just in case?

Revo (and all uninstallers) do more than just edit the Registry.)

Eusing?

Yeah - I back it up each time before cleaning...

--
Les Cargill

[Neil[_8_]]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:08:47 -0500, Nil
wrote:


That's a healthy attitude. Registry "cleaners" are mostly snake oil.
They make the anal-retentive among us (me, for one) feel neater and
tidier and superior, but they almost never result in improved
performance and they all are capable of royally screwing up your
computer.
Here is an excerpt from an article in "Windows Secrets" that I found
interesting. It's a regular newsletter -

"The primary takeaway from these tests is that use of any cleanup tool
— even the free, built-in cleanmgr — can help fight bloat and improve
your system performance over what you get if you simply uninstall an
application.

Although I was surprised that no tool removed all the junk files and
leftover Registry entries, they all — even the lowly cleanmgr, if
launched from a command line with all its cleanup options enabled —
reduced the startup and shutdown times to those of my original, clean
system.

The real surprise? jv16 PowerTools actually made the cleaned-up system
slightly faster than the original, unmodified, baseline machine! It
seems that use of a more advanced tool can yield greater benefits than
using simpler, less-powerful tools.

But while system cleanup clearly is worthwhile, I urge you not to get
carried away, obsessing over a few seconds of speed or a bit of extra
disk space. Reducing boot time from 629 seconds to 32 seconds (by
uninstalling unneeded software) is truly worth pursuing; going from 32
seconds to 33 seconds (for cleanmgr) or 30 seconds (for jv16
PowerTools) is almost meaningless in real life.

And although I encountered no problems from use of the cleaners in the
above tests, it must be said that the more advanced, expert-level
cleaning tools can royally mess up a system if they're used improperly
or too aggressively.

So don't risk destabilizing a solid system for a trivial gain. Stay
within your own comfort and skill zone — and always, always, always
make a backup before using any cleaning tool.

For me, the bottom line is this: I'll continue using — and
recommending — lightweight tools (such as command-line cleanmgr and
CCleaner) for routine cleanups and expert-level tools (such as jv16
PowerTools) when simpler software isn't enough."

[Trevor]

"Nil" wrote in message
...
On 14 Nov 2011, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:

And you can't back up the registry first just in case?

Revo (and all uninstallers) do more than just edit the Registry.)

The comment was about registry cleaners not uninstallers.

The claims being made here somehow simultaneously claim a system will slow
down considerably over time, and that registry cleaners will make no
difference. The obvious conclusion is they have made no measurements in
either case!

Trevor.

[Mike Rivers]

On 11/14/2011 1:27 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

So they say. I have been using Eusing ( heh! ) weekly or so
for about two years now, and absolutely no problems t'all.

Keeps the elephants away, eh? I can't imagine what you
might be doing with your computers that leads you to run a
registry cleaner every week or so. I expect that the laptop
computer that I've been using since 2004 and now takes about
5 minutes to boot could probably use a registry cleanup.
That's the sort of thing that these things are supposed to
fix. But I've never had to rebuild a computer every six
months or even ever. My computers don't crash.

I must be doing something right, or not doing enough wrong.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Mike Rivers]

On 11/14/2011 7:00 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

Figure six hours for a rebuild against vs
... 2 minutes once a week.

How do you rebuild a computer in six hours? When I get a new
computer on to which to essentially build the computer that
it's replacing, it takes me a couple of months before I find
all the things that I missed installing, customize all the
menus and user interfaces, set program defaults, and so on.

Maybe I'm lucky, but I have never run into a case where
anything in the registry was critical.

With me, it's an issue of doubt. If a registry cleaner
identifies a questionable entry as being associated with a
particular application, I'll know if I'm still using that
program or not. But when it gives me some cryptic reference,
I have no idea if I need it or not. It might be part of
something that I use every day.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Mike Rivers]

On 11/14/2011 12:38 AM, Trevor wrote:

And you can't back up the registry first just in case?

I once knew how to back up the registry and I expect I can
figure it out again. But what I don't know is whether, if a
registry cleaner does the wrong thing and the computer won't
boot, how to restore the registry from the backup. Clearly
the best thing to do before running any program like this is
to do a full image backup of the drive. That's something I
don't do often enough.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Mike Rivers]

On 11/14/2011 10:42 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

I have a vacuum tool and have for a decade and it is a wonderful thing, but
of no help for SMT work, although it means I can recap a complete stereo 440B
in about two hours total time

For SMT work you want a hot air station, and if you are looking for something
cheap, a lot of the kids have been using the Aoyue stations which appear to
be cheap Chinese copies of the Hakko, with good luck.

I know where I can borrow a Pace that has both vacuum and
hot air, but you have to learn how to use those things. I've
used my ChipQuick free sample a few times but my eyes are
just getting too bad to be able to do that sort of repair.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Trevor" wrote in message
u...

"Nil" wrote in message
...

On 14 Nov 2011, "Trevor" wrote in rec.audio.pro:

And you can't back up the registry first just in case?

Revo (and all uninstallers) do more than just edit the Registry.)

The comment was about registry cleaners not uninstallers.

The claims being made here somehow simultaneously claim a system will slow
down considerably over time, and that registry cleaners will make no
difference. The obvious conclusion is they have made no measurements in
either case!

What I know from programming windows apps is that the Registry is read only
a tiny bit at a time. Most accesses to the Registry are made by windows
apps. Most accesses by far are reads, not writes.

If a windows app needs to know a parameter setting, it calls a routine that
attempts to retrieve that setting from the Registry. It returns either the
parameter's value or that it is not present.

The registry is stored in a binary tree format, which provides relatively
quick and direct access to parameter values. Access speed is almost
independent of the size of the data base that the parameters are stored in.

The Registry is a replacement for what used to be a collection of .INI files
in Windows 3.1. Storing and opening separate files is very costly in terms
of space and processing as compared to obtaining parameters from a formal
data base that is kept open.

For example, were an .ini file-based system be required to handle multiple
users, it could easily become very complex and awkward. The transition of
operating systems from other parameter file storage methods to the use of
formal databases like the Windows Registry was well under way in the 1980s.
AFAIK the concept of the Registry was inherited by Windows NT from VMS. VMS
probably inherited the concept of a Registry from earlier operating systems
that were used by DEC in their operating systems. I am under the impression
that Unix has something that is comparable to a Registry, but basic Linux
does not.

The Registry starts out as 5 separate files or hives, one for the core
system, another for local security, another for global security, one for
application software, one for all user defaults, and one for the user that
was created when the system was generated. Parameters specific to each
additional user are stored in additional separate file(s). At least these 5
files are read during boot and additional user file(s) are read when people
logon. The files are updated as directed by various programs and system
routines, while some changes are stored during shutdown.

The critical question is the nature of performance losses when the Registry
contains data that is no longer needed, and the answer is that the losses
are inherently quite minimal due to the fact that all of the data is stored
in a binary tree. Unneeded data is simply worked around using a fairly
optimal access method for working with sparse or compacted data.

The best program for keeping the registry clean is a well-designed uninstall
program that was written by the same people who wrote the install program
and the program itself. Uninstall programs are usually the orphan child of
developers, and frequently leave unused registry entries behind. However
other than the wasted disk space which is rarely if ever an issue in this
day and age, there are very few other consequences.

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 11/14/2011 7:00 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

Figure six hours for a rebuild against vs
... 2 minutes once a week.

How do you rebuild a computer in six hours?

Have the discipline to keep your computers simple? ;-)

When I get a new computer on to which to essentially build the computer
that it's replacing, it takes me a couple of months before I find all the
things that I missed installing, customize all the menus and user
interfaces, set program defaults, and so on.

I recently rebuilt the computer I am typing on right now. It does not have a
lot of software on it, and neither did its predecessor. MSOffice, CoolEdit,
Quickbooks, OEM Nero, Premiere, and the usual things that come with XP Pro
are all that I need to get up and running. One of the nice things about
redoing a computer is all the dross that falls off because it is never
reinstalled.

It is true that installing or reinstalling software takes much longer than
doing the hardware.

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 11/14/2011 12:38 AM, Trevor wrote:

And you can't back up the registry first just in case?

I once knew how to back up the registry and I expect I can figure it out
again. But what I don't know is whether, if a registry cleaner does the
wrong thing and the computer won't boot, how to restore the registry from
the backup. Clearly the best thing to do before running any program like
this is to do a full image backup of the drive. That's something I don't
do often enough.

The easiest way to backup the Registry is to use the facilities of System
Restore.

[Nil]

On 15 Nov 2011, Mike Rivers wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I once knew how to back up the registry and I expect I can
figure it out again. But what I don't know is whether, if a
registry cleaner does the wrong thing and the computer won't
boot, how to restore the registry from the backup. Clearly
the best thing to do before running any program like this is
to do a full image backup of the drive. That's something I
don't do often enough.

System Restore backs up the Registry, plus some other stuff (but I
don't know exactly what.)

I use ERUNT, which automatically backs up only the Registry, once a
day. Restoring the registry is very easy and reliable, even if
Windows won't boot. Registry doesn't always fix the problem, of
course, but it's saved my bacon several times over the years.

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/14/2011 7:00 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

Figure six hours for a rebuild against vs
... 2 minutes once a week.

How do you rebuild a computer in six hours? When I get a new computer on
to which to essentially build the computer that it's replacing, it takes
me a couple of months before I find all the things that I missed
installing, customize all the menus and user interfaces, set program
defaults, and so on.


I just keep a folder full of all
the shortcuts that point to stuff that needs installed. When I
rebuild, I bring that in from the backup, and the ones that aren't
installed yet look funny.


Maybe I'm lucky, but I have never run into a case where
anything in the registry was critical.

With me, it's an issue of doubt. If a registry cleaner identifies a
questionable entry as being associated with a particular application,
I'll know if I'm still using that program or not. But when it gives me
some cryptic reference, I have no idea if I need it or not. It might be
part of something that I use every day.



hence the registry backup before cleaning thing...

--
Les Cargill

[Mike Rivers]

On 11/15/2011 7:54 AM, Arny Krueger wrote:

The easiest way to backup the Registry is to use the facilities of System
Restore.

But how do you use Restore if you accidentally removed
something from the registry (or something else happened)
that keeps Windows from running at all?

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 11/15/2011 7:54 AM, Arny Krueger wrote:

The easiest way to backup the Registry is to use the facilities of System
Restore.

But how do you use Restore if you accidentally removed something from the
registry (or something else happened) that keeps Windows from running at
all?

If windows can't run, you first fix it until it works at all, and then bring
it the rest of the way with System Restore.

There is a procedure for making Windows work after severe registry trashing
by copying some files out of the \windows\repair folder into the
\windows\system32\config folder. This should get the machine booting well
enough to run System Restore, which then often gets you right back to where
you were before the trouble starts.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307545

The Windows Registry is really quite well protected and backed up by
default. If a system is in such bad shape that it trashes its Registry
despite all of these safeguards, the whole system is often irrecoverably
trashed because other files are trashed as well.

The most likely fly in the ointment is that the system seems to run
normally, but System Restore just won't work. This is uncommon, but once it
happens you are IME pretty well screwed.

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/14/2011 10:42 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

I have a vacuum tool and have for a decade and it is a wonderful thing, but
of no help for SMT work, although it means I can recap a complete stereo 440B
in about two hours total time

For SMT work you want a hot air station, and if you are looking for something
cheap, a lot of the kids have been using the Aoyue stations which appear to
be cheap Chinese copies of the Hakko, with good luck.

I know where I can borrow a Pace that has both vacuum and
hot air, but you have to learn how to use those things. I've
used my ChipQuick free sample a few times but my eyes are
just getting too bad to be able to do that sort of repair.

I have never had more than 25% normal vision at any point in my life but
today thanks to the good people at Zeiss who can make 14-diopter eyeglasses
that don't look silly, even I can work on SMT stuff. If I can do this, you
can too. Spend the money for a good head-mounted magnifier. I know folks
who like working with a bench magnifier, but I have never found one that
I really liked.

Get some junk PCI cards and practice removing and replacing stuff on
them. If you can work on that stuff you can work on anything.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."