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#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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RNC recording chain question
Long ago, far away, for my own vocals, I used to use a TLM-103 Great
River Pre RNC HD-24 for my recording chain. I liked it. Unfortunately, I sold all my gear and now I'm looking at buying a new setup. So, I bought myself a new super duper DAW and am trying to figure out what to put in front of it. I'm considering the digi 003 rack but I'm getting brain dead. My dilemma is, that since this puppy (and most other interfaces) transport the signal via firewire I can't very well put my trusty RNC between the pre and the computer and there doesn't appear to be any effects inserts on the 003. . Soooooo... how the heck would I set that sucker up? I see the Mackie 400F has channel inserts, but I kinda wanted to do the Digi Dance. So what do digi people do, just skip the hardware based compressor and only use the in-the-box software based compressors? |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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RNC recording chain question
On Mar 9, 12:00 am, wrote:
Long ago, far away, for my own vocals, I used to use a TLM-103 Great River Pre RNC HD-24 for my recording chain. I liked it. So, I bought myself a new super duper DAW and am trying to figure out what to put in front of it. Simple. A TLM103, Great River preamp, RNC and how many channels do you want? I'm considering the digi 003 rack but I'm getting brain dead. My dilemma is, that since this puppy (and most other interfaces) transport the signal via firewire I can't very well put my trusty RNC between the pre and the computer and there doesn't appear to be any effects inserts on the 003. . Soooooo... how the heck would I set that sucker up? Well, that's the problem with "a box." - A lot of these companies don't think these things trough very well. There are some Firewire audio interfaces that have insert jacks, The Mackie 400F is one (but the computer connection seems to be shaky - some just work and some just don't work) but you can't use ProTools with it. So what do digi people do, just skip the hardware based compressor and only use the in-the-box software based compressors? Unfortunately that's what most do, after some frustration. Or they ignore the mic preamps on a "box" and use an outboard mic preamp and whatever else they want in the chain, and just go into a line input. Have you considered the M-Audio M-Powered ProTools using something like a Delta 1010? That doesn't have any mic inputs so you won't be "wasting" anything, and you can choose your own mic input channel as you see fit. You might even want to consider using something like a small Mackie mixer in your front end (no, I'm not recommending the Onyx Firewire to you) so you can have respectable mic preamps, limited channel EQ with the right patching, a place to patch in your favorite RNC, and good control over your monitoring while tracking. |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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RNC recording chain question
I see the Mackie 400F has channel inserts, but I kinda wanted to do the Digi Dance. So what do digi people do, just skip the hardware based compressor and only use the in-the-box software based compressors? The BIG advantage of "compresing in the box" is that you can adjust all the settings during the mixing. If you compress going in while recording, you can't change the settings after the fact. Mark |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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RNC recording chain question
You can get a RNP a 2-channels AD converter and a Digidesign M-Box.
F. |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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RNC recording chain question
On Mar 9, 12:00 am, wrote:
I'm considering the digi 003 rack but I'm getting brain dead. My dilemma is, that since this puppy (and most other interfaces) transport the signal via firewire I can't very well put my trusty RNC between the pre and the computer and there doesn't appear to be any effects inserts on the 003. . Soooooo... how the heck would I set that sucker up? True, there aren't any inserts, but just go pre into RNC and take the output of the RNC into a line input of the 003. I'd be more inclined to look for an insert on the mic pre than on the interface box. Using the 003 pres would have you wishing for an insert, but not using your Great River. I see the Mackie 400F has channel inserts, but I kinda wanted to do the Digi Dance. So what do digi people do, just skip the hardware based compressor and only use the in-the-box software based compressors? Since the subject is "recording chain", I'd say hardly anyone uses a compressor plug-in in recording. You just get the signal in there and then pull up a compressor on the track after the fact, which puts it more in the "mix chain" realm. If you want to use the RNC on tracks already recorded, you only need to assign the track to another output (not 1 & 2, assuming those are your mix outputs), take that output into the RNC and back in another input, which gets assigned to a track outputting to the 1 & 2 mix. It gets the same DA/AD and 2 mill or so delay that any digital interface insert to a hardware compressor would give. |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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RNC recording chain question
wrote:
Long ago, far away, for my own vocals, I used to use a TLM-103 Great River Pre RNC HD-24 for my recording chain. I liked it. Unfortunately, I sold all my gear and now I'm looking at buying a new setup. So, I bought myself a new super duper DAW and am trying to figure out what to put in front of it. You could duplicate the rig above and add whatever interface to the computer you like, whether PT or other. You might look at the Metric Halo ULN2, which offers a pair of nice preamps with inserts, and a Firewire computer interface. Very good convertors, and if you get the +DSP model, plenty of built-in processing, too. -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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RNC recording chain question
Hank: I checked out the Metric Halo (I like their stuff) but it only
has 2 channels and I forgot to mention I need four... And I uhhh don't have quite as much lunch money to spend this time around so the GR won't be being replaced any time soon. My music money seems to be siphoned off to something called a "Tween". Federico, I liked the Mbox2 pro but I need a couple-o-more channels. Mark: The little advantage I've enjoyed in compressing to directly to tape is the vocal feel I get in my monitor headphones when tracking and then again instant gratification on playback. I only use compression sparingly so that at mixing time the producer can still use his magic fairy dust to crystallize the sound. He usually adds more appropriate compression and then the mastering guy finalizes it. Vdub I don't have the GR anymore, I decided to take up digital photography as a hobby but it sucked money out of my wallet faster than my musical acquisition habit did. Now I'm selling the photo gear and getting back into music where I belong. I do like your idea of using the RNC for already recorded tracks, but I figure once it's the box, might as well keep it there. I'm not a fan of delay. Mike: you've helped me numerous time before, and keeping your streak alive, you've done it again. While none of the M-Audio interfaces grabbed me by the neck and said BUY ME, the Mackie ONXY 1220 with the firecard option , cried out for a look. I kinda like this thing. But if my understating is correct, the inserts are pre-fader so the RNC would still out of the recording chain, but maybe that's ok. |
#8
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RNC recording chain question
On Mar 10, 2:21 am, wrote:
While none of the M-Audio interfaces grabbed me by the neck and said BUY ME, the Mackie ONXY 1220 with the firecard option , cried out for a look. Be VERY careful that you understand the routing (and lack thereof) going in and out of the Firewire interface. It's hard-wired and doesn't leave you much flexibility. Think of the input chain as a mic preamp connected directly to an A/D converter, with no inserts (like many of the Firewire rack mount boxes) - just a straight recording of what goes into the mic or line input. You have up to 18 of those (14 on the 1220) of which two are the main L/R mix, which can include whatever is plugged into the Insert jacks and will be affected by channel EQ. And the playback is only two channels going directly to the monitor section of the mixer, so you can't use the mixer's channels to mix your tracks - you have to do your mixing in the computer. The Onyx Firewire setup is ideal for use as a live sound mixer where you want to bring back the show as it was played into the mics and mix it on your computer. Everything else is going to cause you to scratch your head now and then, and often be frustrated because you can't do what you want. I kinda like this thing. But if my understating is correct, the inserts are pre-fader so the RNC would still out of the recording chain, but maybe that's ok. There's a way you can do it. For example, you can plug a mic into Channel 1, connect the direct output to the RNC input, connect the RNC output to the line input of Channel 2, and then record Channel 2. In fact you can record both Channels 1 and 2 so you'll have a compressed and uncompressed version of the track. With the 1220, since you have 4 mic inputs and 4 stereo/mono line inputs, you won't waste a lot of your mixer with this sort of patching. But if you had a 1640 and wanted to record 16 channels with inserts, you couldn't do it. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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RNC recording chain question
Mike Rivers wrote:
On Mar 10, 2:21 am, stevenga... wrote: While none of the M-Audio interfaces grabbed me by the neck and said BUY ME, the Mackie ONXY 1220 with the firecard option , cried out for a look. Be VERY careful that you understand the routing (and lack thereof) going in and out of the Firewire interface. It's hard-wired and doesn't leave you much flexibility. Think of the input chain as a mic preamp connected directly to an A/D converter, with no inserts (like many of the Firewire rack mount boxes) - just a straight recording of what goes into the mic or line input. You have up to 18 of those (14 on the 1220) of which two are the main L/R mix, which can include whatever is plugged into the Insert jacks and will be affected by channel EQ. And the playback is only two channels going directly to the monitor section of the mixer, so you can't use the mixer's channels to mix your tracks - you have to do your mixing in the computer. The Onyx Firewire setup is ideal for use as a live sound mixer where you want to bring back the show as it was played into the mics and mix it on your computer. Everything else is going to cause you to scratch your head now and then, and often be frustrated because you can't do what you want. I kinda like this thing. But if my understating is correct, the inserts are pre-fader so the RNC would still out of the recording chain, but maybe that's ok. There's a way you can do it. For example, you can plug a mic into Channel 1, connect the direct output to the RNC input, connect the RNC output to the line input of Channel 2, and then record Channel 2. In fact you can record both Channels 1 and 2 so you'll have a compressed and uncompressed version of the track. With the 1220, since you have 4 mic inputs and 4 stereo/mono line inputs, you won't waste a lot of your mixer with this sort of patching. But if you had a 1640 and wanted to record 16 channels with inserts, you couldn't do it. Add an RNP to the chain and go micRNPRNCOnyx. That'll satisfy, especially if Steve really liked his GR MP2. This is less money but still a nice chain. -- ha Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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RNC recording chain question
There's a way you can do it. For example, you can plug a mic into Channel 1, connect the direct output to the RNC input, connect the RNC output to the line input of Channel 2, and then record Channel 2. Thanks Mike... now you've got me thinking about some interesting possibilties via "creative routing". Add an RNP to the chain and go micRNPRNCOnyx. That'll satisfy, especially if Steve really liked his GR MP2. This is less money but still a nice chain. Hank, I hate you, lol. Because if I did that I'd have to re-purchase the RNP I sold during my "sell the studio" debacle. And then I wouldn't have hardly any NEW toys. But I certainly did like it so I might just do that. I just remembered though that I might need midi down the line for the keyboard that I don't own anymore. So maybe the Mackie 1220 isn't the way to go after all. Damn. I thought this was gonna be easy. Oh well. So I guess what I want is 1 channel of RNP or similar for my vocals, 2 channels of RNC, 3 Onyx pre's for my custom Taylor, all on an analog board with faders, meters, inserts, 48v individually switchable phantom power, control room outs. Firewire in/out and Midi in/out. And oh yeah, zero latency monitoring, a jack for a remote control like the Tranzport and a footswitch jack for punching in. Hmmmm.... |
#11
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RNC recording chain question
On Mar 10, 2:45 pm, wrote:
I just remembered though that I might need midi down the line for the keyboard that I don't own anymore. If you get a new keyboard, chances are pretty good that it will have a USB connector for MIDI. And if you need a MIDI interface with standard DIN connectors, M-Audio and Edirol make inexpensive ones that connect to the computer via the USB port. I have an Edirol that cost about $30 and gives me a port to connect my Mackie HDR24/96 so I can control it from the computer and get a big time display on the screen (thanks to Bob Smith for the program). So I guess what I want is 1 channel of RNP or similar for my vocals, 2 channels of RNC, 3 Onyx pre's for my custom Taylor . . . . and a part-ridge in a pear tree. |
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