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#41
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Barry Mann wrote:
In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#42
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For
many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#43
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For
many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#44
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For
many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#45
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For
many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#46
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more
dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#47
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more
dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#48
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more
dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#49
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more
dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#50
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Safety Warnings on the manuals, Humm, last I seen, they were all over the
back of the devices, inside the devices, on the PCB, inside the instruction manuals. What makes you think that they will pay any attention to the ones in the service manuals? Once again, it the person would rather try to get it free then pay 50 bucks. If it is for free, an untrained person will try to read these. Heck, I have been train, and sometimes I have to do a double take. The one layout that Wizard showed me on the Vert chip, I had before, but once he described it, I had to do a double take. So you can imagine what a person with HS electronics 101 will think. Sure you will get those few headstrong people who think they know better, and open it, and try. However, most will just throw the unit away, never going near any HV. If you give them the papers (on paper or disk), it will just encourage them to pull out the screwdriver, and open 'er up. Just My Opinion Rick "Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ... An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#51
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Safety Warnings on the manuals, Humm, last I seen, they were all over the
back of the devices, inside the devices, on the PCB, inside the instruction manuals. What makes you think that they will pay any attention to the ones in the service manuals? Once again, it the person would rather try to get it free then pay 50 bucks. If it is for free, an untrained person will try to read these. Heck, I have been train, and sometimes I have to do a double take. The one layout that Wizard showed me on the Vert chip, I had before, but once he described it, I had to do a double take. So you can imagine what a person with HS electronics 101 will think. Sure you will get those few headstrong people who think they know better, and open it, and try. However, most will just throw the unit away, never going near any HV. If you give them the papers (on paper or disk), it will just encourage them to pull out the screwdriver, and open 'er up. Just My Opinion Rick "Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ... An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#52
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Safety Warnings on the manuals, Humm, last I seen, they were all over the
back of the devices, inside the devices, on the PCB, inside the instruction manuals. What makes you think that they will pay any attention to the ones in the service manuals? Once again, it the person would rather try to get it free then pay 50 bucks. If it is for free, an untrained person will try to read these. Heck, I have been train, and sometimes I have to do a double take. The one layout that Wizard showed me on the Vert chip, I had before, but once he described it, I had to do a double take. So you can imagine what a person with HS electronics 101 will think. Sure you will get those few headstrong people who think they know better, and open it, and try. However, most will just throw the unit away, never going near any HV. If you give them the papers (on paper or disk), it will just encourage them to pull out the screwdriver, and open 'er up. Just My Opinion Rick "Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ... An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#53
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Safety Warnings on the manuals, Humm, last I seen, they were all over the
back of the devices, inside the devices, on the PCB, inside the instruction manuals. What makes you think that they will pay any attention to the ones in the service manuals? Once again, it the person would rather try to get it free then pay 50 bucks. If it is for free, an untrained person will try to read these. Heck, I have been train, and sometimes I have to do a double take. The one layout that Wizard showed me on the Vert chip, I had before, but once he described it, I had to do a double take. So you can imagine what a person with HS electronics 101 will think. Sure you will get those few headstrong people who think they know better, and open it, and try. However, most will just throw the unit away, never going near any HV. If you give them the papers (on paper or disk), it will just encourage them to pull out the screwdriver, and open 'er up. Just My Opinion Rick "Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ... An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#54
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I know what you're saying, but such a person couldn't read the schematic
portion in the first place. My position on this is based on the assumption that it's mostly legitimate techs who will use these. For those who aren't - there's always the possibility of a Darwin Award. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... Safety Warnings on the manuals, Humm, last I seen, they were all over the back of the devices, inside the devices, on the PCB, inside the instruction manuals. What makes you think that they will pay any attention to the ones in the service manuals? Once again, it the person would rather try to get it free then pay 50 bucks. If it is for free, an untrained person will try to read these. Heck, I have been train, and sometimes I have to do a double take. The one layout that Wizard showed me on the Vert chip, I had before, but once he described it, I had to do a double take. So you can imagine what a person with HS electronics 101 will think. Sure you will get those few headstrong people who think they know better, and open it, and try. However, most will just throw the unit away, never going near any HV. If you give them the papers (on paper or disk), it will just encourage them to pull out the screwdriver, and open 'er up. Just My Opinion Rick "Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ... An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#55
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I know what you're saying, but such a person couldn't read the schematic
portion in the first place. My position on this is based on the assumption that it's mostly legitimate techs who will use these. For those who aren't - there's always the possibility of a Darwin Award. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... Safety Warnings on the manuals, Humm, last I seen, they were all over the back of the devices, inside the devices, on the PCB, inside the instruction manuals. What makes you think that they will pay any attention to the ones in the service manuals? Once again, it the person would rather try to get it free then pay 50 bucks. If it is for free, an untrained person will try to read these. Heck, I have been train, and sometimes I have to do a double take. The one layout that Wizard showed me on the Vert chip, I had before, but once he described it, I had to do a double take. So you can imagine what a person with HS electronics 101 will think. Sure you will get those few headstrong people who think they know better, and open it, and try. However, most will just throw the unit away, never going near any HV. If you give them the papers (on paper or disk), it will just encourage them to pull out the screwdriver, and open 'er up. Just My Opinion Rick "Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ... An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#56
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I know what you're saying, but such a person couldn't read the schematic
portion in the first place. My position on this is based on the assumption that it's mostly legitimate techs who will use these. For those who aren't - there's always the possibility of a Darwin Award. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... Safety Warnings on the manuals, Humm, last I seen, they were all over the back of the devices, inside the devices, on the PCB, inside the instruction manuals. What makes you think that they will pay any attention to the ones in the service manuals? Once again, it the person would rather try to get it free then pay 50 bucks. If it is for free, an untrained person will try to read these. Heck, I have been train, and sometimes I have to do a double take. The one layout that Wizard showed me on the Vert chip, I had before, but once he described it, I had to do a double take. So you can imagine what a person with HS electronics 101 will think. Sure you will get those few headstrong people who think they know better, and open it, and try. However, most will just throw the unit away, never going near any HV. If you give them the papers (on paper or disk), it will just encourage them to pull out the screwdriver, and open 'er up. Just My Opinion Rick "Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ... An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#57
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I know what you're saying, but such a person couldn't read the schematic
portion in the first place. My position on this is based on the assumption that it's mostly legitimate techs who will use these. For those who aren't - there's always the possibility of a Darwin Award. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... Safety Warnings on the manuals, Humm, last I seen, they were all over the back of the devices, inside the devices, on the PCB, inside the instruction manuals. What makes you think that they will pay any attention to the ones in the service manuals? Once again, it the person would rather try to get it free then pay 50 bucks. If it is for free, an untrained person will try to read these. Heck, I have been train, and sometimes I have to do a double take. The one layout that Wizard showed me on the Vert chip, I had before, but once he described it, I had to do a double take. So you can imagine what a person with HS electronics 101 will think. Sure you will get those few headstrong people who think they know better, and open it, and try. However, most will just throw the unit away, never going near any HV. If you give them the papers (on paper or disk), it will just encourage them to pull out the screwdriver, and open 'er up. Just My Opinion Rick "Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message ... An unknowledgeable yahoo without a service manual is only that much more dangerous than one with manual in hand. At least there are safety warnings in the manuals. Manufacturers do sell them, that is where we get them in the first place. Fifty dollars to Onkyo will get you EVERY manual they have on PDF. Best deal I know of, really. They even scanned almost all their old manuals, back to the '70s. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Ricky Eck" wrote in message ... My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). However, you have to remember. These manuals in the wrong hands, are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. You can imagine the Lawsuits against the companies and the people who distributed them? Sure, there are a lot of those out there who are trained, and can read them. However, I can tell you I have several Degrees in Electronics, computer science, and Aero Electronics, does it mean it is true? No, I have none of these. I am trained in electronics, I do know how to read the manuals, however, I am far from a pro. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. Just My Opinion, "Stepping off my Soapbox" Rick "mike" wrote in message ... Barry Mann wrote: In , on 05/16/04 at 01:59 PM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: See comments inserted. - mz "Barry Mann" wrote in message .com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: [ ... ] I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Better than nothing, I would say. The majority of our new serice data is in electronic media ONLY. Some are very cool, though, with "hot links" imbedded whereby one just clicks on the I.C., for example, and it takes you to it's circuit board location, click again and it goes to the prts list, again, and it goes to the block diagram, etc. If you need to print a section, that's easy to do. The consumer side of me would like manuals to be available so that I could fix minor problems myself and avoid the hassle of tracking down a servicer who is competent. The only allure for me would be manuals for very old units, no longer supported by manufacturers, for which generic parts can be found. These units would have little or no commercial value, but would be important to someone for other reasons. The pro side of me avoids unofficial manuals because they are often out dated time wasters. (the official manuals are often not much better) The pro side of me also hates to deal with the unit that was butchered on the kitchen table. Easily available manuals would encourage the inept. I won't say that I have never wished that I could find a manual online, but, overall, they would not be valuable enough to encourage me to participate in an effort to get them online. [ ... ] ----------------------------------------------------------- spam: wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15 13 (Barry Mann) [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox] ----------------------------------------------------------- Remember that manufacturers do not want you, or anyone else, to fix their stuff. They want to sell you a NEW one. When Tektronix switched corporate control from engineers to bean counters, they quit making service manuals and supplying spare parts. Every unit that gets fixed is a new one that doesn't get sold. Most people who stand in line at 5AM at the TV superstore to get the $99 doorbuster special don't give ANY thought to getting it fixed. The ONLY thing they care about is the cheapest initial price. mike -- Return address is VALID. Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head... http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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#58
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
mv /var/posts/Ricky /dev/null:
My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). PDF files can be encrypted, so you need a password to open them. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. IMHO a service manual is *useless* if you don't know anything about electronics. My disclaimer is - "Download the manuals and use them at your own risk. We can't do anything if you kill yourself." []s -- Chaos Master® | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126375906 | I'm falling forever, ask for e-mail/MSN | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#59
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
mv /var/posts/Ricky /dev/null:
My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). PDF files can be encrypted, so you need a password to open them. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. IMHO a service manual is *useless* if you don't know anything about electronics. My disclaimer is - "Download the manuals and use them at your own risk. We can't do anything if you kill yourself." []s -- Chaos Master® | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126375906 | I'm falling forever, ask for e-mail/MSN | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#60
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
mv /var/posts/Ricky /dev/null:
My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). PDF files can be encrypted, so you need a password to open them. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. IMHO a service manual is *useless* if you don't know anything about electronics. My disclaimer is - "Download the manuals and use them at your own risk. We can't do anything if you kill yourself." []s -- Chaos Master® | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126375906 | I'm falling forever, ask for e-mail/MSN | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#61
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
mv /var/posts/Ricky /dev/null:
My opinion is, that there are literally millions of Techs out there. For many years, we (including myself), have put LOTS of money in the repair manuals. Where this board is great for giving good advice for free. I think the last thing that any of the qualified techs want to do is just give the manuals away for free. NOW, if the manufactures wanted to produce PDF's, and sell them. That would be cool. And if those who purchased them, wanted to throw their money away, that would be their option (not to mention the legal aspect of it). PDF files can be encrypted, so you need a password to open them. I have to ask questions like the next. That is why this board is great. We can share ideas, and even debate them. But usually, we know when and when not to give the info out. We try to limit the info, to insure that no one gets hurt (or killed), if these manuals were just distributed, without cost, they would make it into hands that should not have them. So, the cost, not only benefits the company, but also keeps them out of unqualified hands. IMHO a service manual is *useless* if you don't know anything about electronics. My disclaimer is - "Download the manuals and use them at your own risk. We can't do anything if you kill yourself." []s -- Chaos Master® | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126375906 | I'm falling forever, ask for e-mail/MSN | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#62
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
"Barry Mann" wrote in message om... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care about this. I assume you are talking about service manuals. I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the manufacturers. I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as well. I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful, but it is a *HUGE* project. There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist in microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the format size doesn't really matter. |
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#63
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
"Barry Mann" wrote in message om... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care about this. I assume you are talking about service manuals. I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the manufacturers. I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as well. I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful, but it is a *HUGE* project. There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist in microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the format size doesn't really matter. |
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#64
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
"Barry Mann" wrote in message om... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care about this. I assume you are talking about service manuals. I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the manufacturers. I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as well. I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful, but it is a *HUGE* project. There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist in microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the format size doesn't really matter. |
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#65
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes
etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. Still considering this issue. The fee would probably filter out some of the non-tech types, but then again participation would probably be almost non-existent. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "BitBanger" wrote in message ... "Barry Mann" wrote in message om... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care about this. I assume you are talking about service manuals. I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the manufacturers. I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as well. I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful, but it is a *HUGE* project. There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist in microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the format size doesn't really matter. |
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#66
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes
etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. Still considering this issue. The fee would probably filter out some of the non-tech types, but then again participation would probably be almost non-existent. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "BitBanger" wrote in message ... "Barry Mann" wrote in message om... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care about this. I assume you are talking about service manuals. I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the manufacturers. I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as well. I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful, but it is a *HUGE* project. There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist in microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the format size doesn't really matter. |
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#67
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes
etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. Still considering this issue. The fee would probably filter out some of the non-tech types, but then again participation would probably be almost non-existent. Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "BitBanger" wrote in message ... "Barry Mann" wrote in message om... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care about this. I assume you are talking about service manuals. I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the manufacturers. I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as well. I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful, but it is a *HUGE* project. There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist in microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the format size doesn't really matter. |
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#68
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module
: I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. []s -- © 2004 Chaos Master | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126735906 / | I'm falling forever, UnderNet: FreeB5D | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#69
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module
: I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. []s -- © 2004 Chaos Master | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126735906 / | I'm falling forever, UnderNet: FreeB5D | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#70
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module
: I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. []s -- © 2004 Chaos Master | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126735906 / | I'm falling forever, UnderNet: FreeB5D | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#71
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I'll take a look at them. I was introduced to Streamload via a CBS Radio
Mystery Theater forum - they trade them that way. (With the permission of the rights-owner, Mr. Himan Brown, that is.) Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Chaos Master" wrote in message ... Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module : I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. []s -- © 2004 Chaos Master | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126735906 / | I'm falling forever, UnderNet: FreeB5D | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#72
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I'll take a look at them. I was introduced to Streamload via a CBS Radio
Mystery Theater forum - they trade them that way. (With the permission of the rights-owner, Mr. Himan Brown, that is.) Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Chaos Master" wrote in message ... Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module : I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. []s -- © 2004 Chaos Master | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126735906 / | I'm falling forever, UnderNet: FreeB5D | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#73
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
I'll take a look at them. I was introduced to Streamload via a CBS Radio
Mystery Theater forum - they trade them that way. (With the permission of the rights-owner, Mr. Himan Brown, that is.) Mark Z. -- Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam have rendered my regular e-mail address useless. "Chaos Master" wrote in message ... Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module : I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. []s -- © 2004 Chaos Master | "I'm going under, Posting from Brazil! | drowning in you ICQ: 126735906 / | I'm falling forever, UnderNet: FreeB5D | I've got to break through" ---------------------. -- Evanescence, "Going Under" |
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#74
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Chaos Master wrote:
Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module : I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. Also, there is DC++. --- El Meda. http://ingemeda.tripod.com/ |
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#75
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Chaos Master wrote:
Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module : I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. Also, there is DC++. --- El Meda. http://ingemeda.tripod.com/ |
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#76
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
Chaos Master wrote:
Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module : I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. Also, there is DC++. --- El Meda. http://ingemeda.tripod.com/ |
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#77
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:27:24 -0300, Chaos Master
wrote: Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module : I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. []s Everybody talks Kazaa whenever P2P comes up. I've found Kazaa to be the worst.(endless viruses,worms etc... not to mention all the bogus files.) I know there are scores of P2P services available, some legit and in the open some not. I've used Winmix off and on ever since it went online and found it to be the most productive and safe.(Not one virus/trojan/worm in all the time I've used it.) I don't know if it's set up for documents or such, but if so would be ideal for exchange of manuals.(I'm assuming they'd be in pdf format.) I've also been trying out edonkey the past few weeks with fair results. That might be an option as they seem to have a wide variety of file types available. I think the main issue of contention as to making this work is getting some techs to warm up to the idea of sharing their manuals.(most I've talked to have the attitude that if they had to pay big bucks for a service manual so should everyone else.) We all know that these manuals are priced far above anything resembling a fair market value. Even more so considering that most small repair shops might not use the manual more than once. Some in the repair industry feel the overcharging is a good thing, after all it helps keep many smaller shops from taking repair work on hardware that they'll have to pay 50 bucks or more up front for a service manual just to get started on a job. The high price coupled with the policy not to sell service manuals at the consumer level also keeps the vast majority of the consumer market from servicing their own appliances.(please, I don't need to hear from all in the service industry about how it's too dangerous to allow consumers to attempt their own repair jobs. Not all consumers are as incapable as most would believe.) There ARE thousands of DIY'ers out here that go the distance to learn how to do the work themselves.( I had the advantage of growing up in a TV & Radio repair shop as well as having gone through BE & E in my service days, so I realize I may be a bit of an exception. But have seen many hobbyist that had many hours of schooling in electronics courtesy their local votech.) One way of looking at it could be that if more manuals were swapped it would force down the price of service manuals for all. Only those with monopolizing the market in mind could see this as a bad thing. I can remember the days when a Sams service pack was available to all for as little as a buck. Haven't even seen Sams manuals since most of the hobby shops went out. |
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#78
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:27:24 -0300, Chaos Master
wrote: Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module : I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. []s Everybody talks Kazaa whenever P2P comes up. I've found Kazaa to be the worst.(endless viruses,worms etc... not to mention all the bogus files.) I know there are scores of P2P services available, some legit and in the open some not. I've used Winmix off and on ever since it went online and found it to be the most productive and safe.(Not one virus/trojan/worm in all the time I've used it.) I don't know if it's set up for documents or such, but if so would be ideal for exchange of manuals.(I'm assuming they'd be in pdf format.) I've also been trying out edonkey the past few weeks with fair results. That might be an option as they seem to have a wide variety of file types available. I think the main issue of contention as to making this work is getting some techs to warm up to the idea of sharing their manuals.(most I've talked to have the attitude that if they had to pay big bucks for a service manual so should everyone else.) We all know that these manuals are priced far above anything resembling a fair market value. Even more so considering that most small repair shops might not use the manual more than once. Some in the repair industry feel the overcharging is a good thing, after all it helps keep many smaller shops from taking repair work on hardware that they'll have to pay 50 bucks or more up front for a service manual just to get started on a job. The high price coupled with the policy not to sell service manuals at the consumer level also keeps the vast majority of the consumer market from servicing their own appliances.(please, I don't need to hear from all in the service industry about how it's too dangerous to allow consumers to attempt their own repair jobs. Not all consumers are as incapable as most would believe.) There ARE thousands of DIY'ers out here that go the distance to learn how to do the work themselves.( I had the advantage of growing up in a TV & Radio repair shop as well as having gone through BE & E in my service days, so I realize I may be a bit of an exception. But have seen many hobbyist that had many hours of schooling in electronics courtesy their local votech.) One way of looking at it could be that if more manuals were swapped it would force down the price of service manuals for all. Only those with monopolizing the market in mind could see this as a bad thing. I can remember the days when a Sams service pack was available to all for as little as a buck. Haven't even seen Sams manuals since most of the hobby shops went out. |
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#79
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:27:24 -0300, Chaos Master
wrote: Mark D. Zacharias ) caused an illegal operation in module : I'm starting to think that P2P won't really work due to the way the nodes etc work on Kazaa. I've been investigated a server called Streamload which is fairly ideal but requires a 4.95 or 5.95 (I forget which) monthly fee. eMule? BitTorrent? (just guesses). BitTorrent seems ideal. You just create the .torrent files with the file info and people download them whenever they want the file. []s Everybody talks Kazaa whenever P2P comes up. I've found Kazaa to be the worst.(endless viruses,worms etc... not to mention all the bogus files.) I know there are scores of P2P services available, some legit and in the open some not. I've used Winmix off and on ever since it went online and found it to be the most productive and safe.(Not one virus/trojan/worm in all the time I've used it.) I don't know if it's set up for documents or such, but if so would be ideal for exchange of manuals.(I'm assuming they'd be in pdf format.) I've also been trying out edonkey the past few weeks with fair results. That might be an option as they seem to have a wide variety of file types available. I think the main issue of contention as to making this work is getting some techs to warm up to the idea of sharing their manuals.(most I've talked to have the attitude that if they had to pay big bucks for a service manual so should everyone else.) We all know that these manuals are priced far above anything resembling a fair market value. Even more so considering that most small repair shops might not use the manual more than once. Some in the repair industry feel the overcharging is a good thing, after all it helps keep many smaller shops from taking repair work on hardware that they'll have to pay 50 bucks or more up front for a service manual just to get started on a job. The high price coupled with the policy not to sell service manuals at the consumer level also keeps the vast majority of the consumer market from servicing their own appliances.(please, I don't need to hear from all in the service industry about how it's too dangerous to allow consumers to attempt their own repair jobs. Not all consumers are as incapable as most would believe.) There ARE thousands of DIY'ers out here that go the distance to learn how to do the work themselves.( I had the advantage of growing up in a TV & Radio repair shop as well as having gone through BE & E in my service days, so I realize I may be a bit of an exception. But have seen many hobbyist that had many hours of schooling in electronics courtesy their local votech.) One way of looking at it could be that if more manuals were swapped it would force down the price of service manuals for all. Only those with monopolizing the market in mind could see this as a bad thing. I can remember the days when a Sams service pack was available to all for as little as a buck. Haven't even seen Sams manuals since most of the hobby shops went out. |
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#80
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P2P sharing of service manual PDF's
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:05:19 +0200, "BitBanger" wrote:
"Barry Mann" wrote in message . com... In , on 05/16/04 at 07:11 AM, "Mark D. Zacharias" said: Why not? Use Kazaa Lite - no spyware. The manufacturers mostly don't copyright service info, and even if they did, they don't really care about this. I assume you are talking about service manuals. I would like to see a statement from the manufacturers to approve this sort of activity. Many are shy about sharing service info. I'm not near my manuals at the moment, but I remember most of them as being copyrighted or at least considered to be "proprietory" by the manufacturers. I could make many Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony and other audio / video manuals available from my computer. Surely some others of us could as well. I don't care for scanned PDF's. The files are large and generally hard to read. How would you handle large schematics? Most of my manuals have large pullout drawings. Redrawn and retyped manuals would be useful, but it is a *HUGE* project. There's no other way in any case as most older service manuals only exist in microfilm format. But the resolution is very good so scanning it and converting it to PDF would surely be feasible, and it being digital, the format size doesn't really matter. Well, manuals ARE copyrighted. It's not against the law to reverse engineer them tho'. In fact many of the aftermarket manuals I've seen appear identical to their oem counterparts. Face it though. sharing a manual for free would at best be difficult to procecute. Certainly a far more trivial crime when compared to the highway robbery of the oem's and the prices they charge for a manual. |
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