[Wink]

In my "Best caps for Amplifier thread", I asked about filter caps and
diodes. ESP and other sources have been edifying. I'm now stuck on a
few more component choices and am strongly doubting the value of
various $$$ components and hardware.

(I'm using a Hafler 220 and 200 [trashed] and Musical Concepts PA-3D
Signature kit to construct 2 monoblocks.)

Binding posts and wire, for example. Will expensive Cardas binding
posts be audibly superior to decent rat shack posts? The scientist in
me says no. Exotic wire vs decent stranded wire? I've got some Lowes
16# extension cords which contain some very nice wire.

Transformers: I've got 2 stock DH-220 xfmrs. I've thought of getting
a couple of Toroidals -- Plitron, Avel-Lindberg -- but doubt the worth
of such an expenditure. Some guys at DIYaudio.com prefer E or R core
units. Toriods: More Snake oil?
-----------------------

Other questions: I have a lightly modified DH-120. I think Borbely
designed this amp which uses a single 2SK134/2SJ49 pair per channel.
This little SOB is more engaging than a Pass X250.5 I briefly owned
and I wonder if part of the magic is due to the single mosfet pairs.

With this (possibly subjectivist snake-oil delusion ridden)
observation in mind, I've thought of using Exicon's double-die mosfets
in my monoblock project instead of the stock Hafler 220/200, 134/49
complement. Thoughts?

Finally, I do not have a distortion analyzer, but do have an old RM15
Tektronics (dozens of tubes) scope and a Tenma sig generator, so at
least I can look at the waveforms. I also have some decent DMMs.
Wish I had one of those vintage analog Triplet meters.
Thanks--
Wink

(Oh yes, the MC pa3d kit is very nice. The boards appear to be first
rate. The kit includes Carol hook-up wire.)

[Dave Platt]

In my "Best caps for Amplifier thread", I asked about filter caps and
diodes. ESP and other sources have been edifying. I'm now stuck on a
few more component choices and am strongly doubting the value of
various $$$ components and hardware.

(I'm using a Hafler 220 and 200 [trashed] and Musical Concepts PA-3D
Signature kit to construct 2 monoblocks.)

Binding posts and wire, for example. Will expensive Cardas binding
posts be audibly superior to decent rat shack posts? The scientist in
me says no.

I tend to think well of Pomona... I'm a bit more willing to trust the
physical construction of theirs than I am to trust Radio Shack (who
knows whom RS is OEM'ing parts this week?). I've occasionally had
failures in cheap 5-way binding posts... cracked caps when I tried to
tighten them properly, or a post which failed completely when the
sides of the drilled-through hole snapped (a speaker fell over and the
end of the post hit the floor).

Connectors made out of good metal (e.g. properly-plated solid brass)
are, I think, superior to those made out of cheap metal - not
necessarily because they "sound better" during use, but because
they're more likely to survive years of service.

I tend to agree that a lot of the "boutique" parts are a lot of extra
money, for very questionable performance gains.

Exotic wire vs decent stranded wire? I've got some Lowes
16# extension cords which contain some very nice wire.

A good, sensible choice.

If you're driving low-impedance speakers over a fairly long distance,
ordinary #12 stranded might be worthwhile - lower series resistance
and the series inductance isn't too high.

Transformers: I've got 2 stock DH-220 xfmrs. I've thought of getting
a couple of Toroidals -- Plitron, Avel-Lindberg -- but doubt the worth
of such an expenditure. Some guys at DIYaudio.com prefer E or R core
units. Toriods: More Snake oil?

I think it's a matter of tradeoffs.

Toroids have the advantage of having relatively low magnetic leakage
(they're largely self-shielding) which can reduce the problem of
magnetically-induced hum in low-level audio circuits nearby.

On the other hand, they're distinctly intolerant of asymmetrical
waveforms (with a DC component) on their primary winding... they can
saturate. This can lead to a nasty mechanical humming/buzzing of the
transformer itself. If you have an amp with a toroidal transformer,
you're likely to be uncomfortably aware of the presence of
triac-dimmed halogen lights and other such "difficult" loads on the
same circuit.

I believe that toroid-transformer power supplies are also somewhat
more prone to have very high inrush currents when first turned on,
compared to otherwise-similar EI-core-transformer supplies. This may
require the use of a heavier-duty power switch, or some form of inrush
limiter (PTC thermistor, or a relay-bypassed series resistor).

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Arny Krueger]

"Wink" wrote in message

In my "Best caps for Amplifier thread", I asked about
filter caps and diodes. ESP and other sources have been
edifying. I'm now stuck on a few more component choices
and am strongly doubting the value of various $$$
components and hardware.

(I'm using a Hafler 220 and 200 [trashed] and Musical
Concepts PA-3D Signature kit to construct 2 monoblocks.)

Binding posts and wire, for example. Will expensive
Cardas binding posts be audibly superior to decent rat
shack posts?

Not as long as the RS jacks aren't visibly broken. The traditional name in
good-quality binding posts is Superior Electric:

http://www.superiorelectric.com/5-WAYBindingPosts.htm

The scientist in me says no. Exotic wire vs
decent stranded wire? I've got some Lowes 16# extension
cords which contain some very nice wire.

Lowes sells 12 gauge stranded speaker wire that is more than decent.

Transformers: I've got 2 stock DH-220 xfmrs. I've
thought of getting a couple of Toroidals -- Plitron,
Avel-Lindberg -- but doubt the worth of such an
expenditure. Some guys at DIYaudio.com prefer E or R
core units. Toriods: More Snake oil?

Toroids look neat, have reduced external hum fields and are bothered more by
DC riding on the power line.

If you want to do sensitive tests on audio gear on the cheap, use a good
sound card and software FFT-based analysis software.

[Richard Crowley]

"Arny Krueger" wrote ...
"Wink" wrote
In my "Best caps for Amplifier thread", I asked about
filter caps and diodes. ESP and other sources have been
edifying. I'm now stuck on a few more component choices
and am strongly doubting the value of various $$$
components and hardware.

(I'm using a Hafler 220 and 200 [trashed] and Musical
Concepts PA-3D Signature kit to construct 2 monoblocks.)

Binding posts and wire, for example. Will expensive
Cardas binding posts be audibly superior to decent rat
shack posts?

Not as long as the RS jacks aren't visibly broken.

While I don't believe in "magic" connectors (or wire),
note that some RS connector products are plated with
some shiny-looking metal that is difficult-to-impossible
to solder to reliably (chrome, perhaps? :-). I would at
the very least be sure to file off the surface of the solder
lug (as with an emery board, etc.) before soldering.

The traditional name in good-quality binding posts is Superior Electric:

Or Pomona

[Eeyore]

Wink wrote:

Will expensive Cardas binding
posts be audibly superior to decent rat shack posts?

Do you believe that expensive marketing makes materials perform any better
?

I certainly don't ! Many DO though.

Graham

[Wink]

http://www.superiorelectric.com/5-WAYBindingPosts.htm

Excellent. These look perfect.

Lowes sells 12 gauge stranded speaker wire that is more than decent.
I assume you recommend using 12 over 14 or 16 gauge for power supply
rails, speaker connection, etc.? Probably everything but the input
wiring and mains lines.


Toroids look neat, have reduced external hum fields and are bothered more by
DC riding on the power line.
Hum has certainly never been a prob in my Hafler amps.
Yes, I've observed that DC sensitivity in Monarchy SE-160s.
A variable intensity work light made the toroids buzz like crazy.
(Lovely sound with the right input tube, but lacking bass weight and
impact.)

If you want to do sensitive tests on audio gear on the cheap, use a good
sound card and software FFT-based analysis software.
Yes! -- I had seen reference to this some time ago, completely forgot.
I'm using a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz in my Epox based Intel machine.
I'm doubting the card is up to the task. The FFT software vendors
probably have recommendations.

Thanks Arny --
Wink

[Arny Krueger]

"Wink" wrote in message


http://www.superiorelectric.com/5-WAYBindingPosts.htm

Excellent. These look perfect.

Lowes sells 12 gauge stranded speaker wire that is more
than decent.

I assume you recommend using 12 over 14 or 16 gauge for
power supply rails, speaker connection, etc.? Probably
everything but the input wiring and mains lines.

On second thought, 14 or 16 is fine for short runs inside the chassis.

Toroids look neat, have reduced external hum fields and
are bothered more by DC riding on the power line.

Hum has certainly never been a prob in my Hafler amps.

Yes, I've observed that DC sensitivity in Monarchy
SE-160s.

A variable intensity work light made the toroids buzz
like crazy. (Lovely sound with the right input tube, but
lacking bass weight and impact.)

If you want to do sensitive tests on audio gear on the
cheap, use a good sound card and software FFT-based
analysis software.

Yes! -- I had seen reference to this some time ago,
completely forgot. I'm using a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz in
my Epox based Intel machine. I'm doubting the card is up
to the task. The FFT software vendors probably have
recommendations.

The residuals of a TB Santa Cruz are listed out he

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/santa_cruz/

There aren't a lot of power amps that have residuals any lower.

[Wink]

The residuals of a TB Santa Cruz are listed out he

http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/santa_cruz/

There aren't a lot of power amps that have residuals any lower.

Mmmm....fascinating. I should be using this computer as our CD
player. Thanks.

[Wink]

More Questions guys. I appreciate the help thus far.

TO-3 Mosfet sockets: The old stock jobs -- polluted with heatsink
compound, the phenolic(?) wafer is partially separated from the nylon
piece on some, reducing pin penetration a bit.

I'm wondering if I should replace them all, if so with what, or bag
the sockets and solder directly to the pins.

Acetone seems to partially cut heat sink compound. Maybe Methyl Ethyl
Ketone would work better.
__________________
I've been using 16# wire for internal high-current wiring. DC mains,
speaker connections, etc. Wonder if I should have used something
heavier? The kit included 16# Carol wire for this purpose. I've been
using a combo of that and Lowes 16# wire.
__________________

I assume fresh Radio Shack HS compound is good enough?
__________________

So far I've got one m-block's power supply built.
Wink

[Dave Platt]

I've been using 16# wire for internal high-current wiring. DC mains,
speaker connections, etc. Wonder if I should have used something
heavier? The kit included 16# Carol wire for this purpose. I've been
using a combo of that and Lowes 16# wire.

16-gauge wire has a series resistance of around 4 milliohms per foot.
I'd guess that your high-current wiring may be pulling around 10 amps
per rail per side, at most, on the peaks... which would be 40
millivolts of voltage drop per foot of wire. I doubt that this is
enough to matter, or that reducing the voltage drop by using (e.g.)
12-gauge wire at around 1.6 milliohms/foot would make any significant
difference in the amp's performance.

I assume fresh Radio Shack HS compound is good enough?

Probably more expensive per tube than it needs to be, but it's likely
good enough technically. Just remember to use it *very* sparingly...
the thinnest smooth film which is adequate to fill the gaps in the
surfaces is all you need.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Wink]

I've been using 16# wire for internal high-current wiring. DC mains,
speaker connections, etc. Wonder if I should have used something
heavier? The kit included 16# Carol wire for this purpose. I've been
using a combo of that and Lowes 16# wire.

16-gauge wire has a series resistance of around 4 milliohms per foot.
I'd guess that your high-current wiring may be pulling around 10 amps
per rail per side, at most, on the peaks... which would be 40
millivolts of voltage drop per foot of wire. I doubt that this is
enough to matter, or that reducing the voltage drop by using (e.g.)
12-gauge wire at around 1.6 milliohms/foot would make any significant
difference in the amp's performance.
That's what I kind of figured Dave.

I assume fresh Radio Shack HS compound is good enough?

Probably more expensive per tube than it needs to be, but it's likely
good enough technically. Just remember to use it *very* sparingly...
the thinnest smooth film which is adequate to fill the gaps in the
surfaces is all you need.
Righto -- This is something I am familiar with, having built
computers. I won't be tempted to use Arctic Silver! Of course, it
doesn't follow that "building" computers results in any significant
understanding of proper HS compound usage.

By the way -- Some years ago I corresponded with a Dave Platt in
Pittsburg (I think). This DP sent me some soft recovery diodes which I
used for years in the 220. That's not you by some slim chance? I'm in
Chambersburg PA.

[Dave Platt]

In article , Wink wrote:

Righto -- This is something I am familiar with, having built
computers. I won't be tempted to use Arctic Silver! Of course, it
doesn't follow that "building" computers results in any significant
understanding of proper HS compound usage.

By the way -- Some years ago I corresponded with a Dave Platt in
Pittsburg (I think). This DP sent me some soft recovery diodes which I
used for years in the 220. That's not you by some slim chance? I'm in
Chambersburg PA.

I think that must be another gent of the same name... although I'm
from Philadelpha originally I've lived in California for the last
35 years.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

[Wink]

Dave --
I've posted this project on DIYaudio.com. I decided to chronical the
project and see what some of those guys think about various questions
-- though you guys clearly impress me as knowing what you're talking
about.

Could you have a look:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=116937

My primary concern is the filter cap bypass arrangement -- see a
close-up at the bottom of the page. I guess stability is concern.

Doesn't appear to much interest at DIY! OH well.
Wink

[GregS[_3_]]

In article , Wink wrote:
Dave --
I've posted this project on DIYaudio.com. I decided to chronical the
project and see what some of those guys think about various questions
-- though you guys clearly impress me as knowing what you're talking
about.

Could you have a look:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=116937

My primary concern is the filter cap bypass arrangement -- see a
close-up at the bottom of the page. I guess stability is concern.

Doesn't appear to much interest at DIY! OH well.
Wink

I guess you need to make it visable for non members.
I don't see anything.

greg

[Richard Crowley]

"Wink" wrote...
Dave --
I've posted this project on DIYaudio.com. I decided to chronical the
project and see what some of those guys think about various questions
-- though you guys clearly impress me as knowing what you're talking
about.

Could you have a look:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...hreadid=116937

My primary concern is the filter cap bypass arrangement -- see a
close-up at the bottom of the page. I guess stability is concern.

Don't allow yourself to be too strongly influenced by the
"tweako" crowd. Electronic circuit design and construction
are only slightly "magic". :-)

If I were really worried about the impedance of the ground
bus (and "stability", etc.), I'd be tempted to move the big
filter caps next to each other and use a big chunk of copper
between them instead of those little wires, etc.

Doesn't appear to much interest at DIY! OH well.

It is a fairly straightforward cleanup and retro-fit that
many have done before. It may be new to you, so
enjoy the experience. Looks like you are doing a
good job of cleaning up the old chassis, etc.

[Wink]

I guess you need to make it visable for non members.
I don't see anything.

greg
Sheesh...my mistake: I forgot that one must be registered to view
attachments at that site.

I put 2 supply photos in alt.binaries.pictures.misc. Thanks --
Dave

[Johnss]

On Feb 4, 4:06*pm, Wink wrote:
In my "Best caps for Amplifier thread", I asked about filter caps and
diodes. *ESP and other sources have been edifying. I'm now stuck on a
few more component choices and am strongly doubting the value of
various $$$ components and hardware.

(I'm using a Hafler 220 and 200 [trashed] *and Musical Concepts PA-3D
Signature kit to construct 2 monoblocks.)

Binding posts and wire, for example. Will expensive Cardas binding
posts be audibly superior to decent rat shack posts? The scientist in
me says no. *Exotic wire vs decent stranded wire? I've got some Lowes
16# extension cords which contain some very nice wire. *

Transformers: I've got 2 stock DH-220 xfmrs. *I've thought of getting
a couple of Toroidals -- Plitron, Avel-Lindberg -- but doubt the worth
of such an *expenditure. *Some guys at DIYaudio.com prefer E or R core
units. *Toriods: More Snake oil?
-----------------------

Other questions: I have a lightly modified DH-120. I think Borbely
designed this amp which uses a single 2SK134/2SJ49 pair per channel.
This *little SOB is more engaging than a Pass X250.5 I briefly owned
and I wonder if part of the magic is due to the single mosfet pairs.

With this (possibly subjectivist snake-oil delusion ridden)
observation in mind, I've thought of using Exicon's double-die mosfets
in my monoblock project instead of the stock Hafler 220/200, 134/49
complement. Thoughts? *

Finally, I do not have a distortion analyzer, but do have an old RM15
Tektronics (dozens of tubes) scope and a Tenma sig generator, so at
least I can look at the waveforms. I also have some decent DMMs.
Wish I had one of those vintage analog Triplet meters.
Thanks--
Wink

(Oh yes, the MC pa3d kit is very nice. The boards appear to be first
rate. The kit includes Carol hook-up wire.)


On the transformers, the design is not as important as the size. The
Halfers benefit (as do adcoms) from going oversize on the VA size ( E
core or Toroid), with the toroid you can get more power out of a
similar sized unit.

As for the binding posts, I agree with one of hte other posters, maybe
you don't need the 75.00 a pair versions but get a set of superior
posts available from Newark, or one of the other parts supply houses.

best

John

[Mogens V.]

Johnss wrote:
On the transformers, the design is not as important as the size. The
Halfers benefit (as do adcoms) from going oversize on the VA size ( E
core or Toroid), with the toroid you can get more power out of a
similar sized unit.

At the possible expense of less filtering due to larger coupling between
pri and sec windings, unless the toroid has precautions aginst that.
Also, the larger inrush current may need to be addressed.

--
Kind regards,
Mogens V.