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#1
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Crutchfield Advice?
The guy at Crutchfield suggested that a DVC sub driver driven with a 2
channel amp (one channel to each VC) would be better sounding then the same driver is a SVC version. Does this make sense? He said that the DVC sub would be more responsive? I also read where it's not a good idea to run a seperate channel to each VC. However isn't that one of the reasons for the DVC? |
#2
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On 7 Mar 2005 21:33:20 -0800, "Sub_Lover" wrote:
The guy at Crutchfield suggested that a DVC sub driver driven with a 2 channel amp (one channel to each VC) would be better sounding then the same driver is a SVC version. Does this make sense? He said that the DVC sub would be more responsive? I also read where it's not a good idea to run a seperate channel to each VC. However isn't that one of the reasons for the DVC? Crutchfield has excellent customer service, and they're fairly knowledgable about the products they carry, as long as you limit your questions to topics that are discussed in the owner's manuals. That being said, I don't think they have very many engineers answering the phones in the customer service department, so I'd take any techinical or theoretical advice they give you with a grain of salt. As long as the overall impedence that the sub presents to the amplifier is within the amp's limits, I don't think you'll notice a difference in sound quality between: 1) an amp bridged mono powering a DVC sub that's had the voice coils bridged 2) a two-channel amp with each channel powering one voice coil, or 3) an amp bridged mono powering a SVC sub. -- Scott Gardner "God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." (Voltaire) |
#3
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"Sub_Lover" wrote in message ups.com... The guy at Crutchfield suggested that a DVC sub driver driven with a 2 channel amp (one channel to each VC) would be better sounding then the same driver is a SVC version. Does this make sense? He said that the DVC sub would be more responsive? I also read where it's not a good idea to run a seperate channel to each VC. However isn't that one of the reasons for the DVC? We have all been conditioned to believe that dual anything is better than a single of anything (dual exhaust, etc.). With voice coils, this is simply not the case. Dual voice coil subs do not have twice the quantity of voice coils as single coil subs. The two coils are wound on top of one another so there is no length advantage, either. The ONLY advantage I can see with DVC subs is that you have more wiring options. DVC subs allow you to wire each coil either in series or parellel with your amp and/or other DVC subs. This gives you the ability to wire your subs in such a way as to optimize the impedence your amp "sees". As far as hooking the left channel to one coil and the right channel to another, this is not typically done (this was the subject of a recent thread, here). Though the coils will NOT potentially fight one another as some have thought, there IS a potential for some cancellation (one coil recieving a signal 180 degrees out of phase from the other, thereby cancelling the signal), and for this reason I would not recommend it. MOSFET |
#4
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In article ,
"MOSFET" wrote: "Sub_Lover" wrote in message ups.com... The guy at Crutchfield suggested that a DVC sub driver driven with a 2 channel amp (one channel to each VC) would be better sounding then the same driver is a SVC version. Does this make sense? He said that the DVC sub would be more responsive? I also read where it's not a good idea to run a seperate channel to each VC. However isn't that one of the reasons for the DVC? We have all been conditioned to believe that dual anything is better than a single of anything (dual exhaust, etc.). With voice coils, this is simply not the case. Dual voice coil subs do not have twice the quantity of voice coils as single coil subs. The two coils are wound on top of one another so there is no length advantage, either. The ONLY advantage I can see with DVC subs is that you have more wiring options. DVC subs allow you to wire each coil either in series or parellel with your amp and/or other DVC subs. This gives you the ability to wire your subs in such a way as to optimize the impedence your amp "sees". As far as hooking the left channel to one coil and the right channel to another, this is not typically done (this was the subject of a recent thread, here). Though the coils will NOT potentially fight one another as some have thought, there IS a potential for some cancellation (one coil recieving a signal 180 degrees out of phase from the other, thereby cancelling the signal), and for this reason I would not recommend it. MOSFET And even that last part is arguable, but I'm far too lazy for that hehe. Its more of opinion and personal experiences/tastes etc etc. I must concur with the first part though, more of anything and pretty colors/lights seem to equal sales. -- Cyrus *coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough* |
#5
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I guess my choices are to sell the DVC and buy the SVC: or I could sum
the output of the sub from the deck using a y connector and then split the mono signal with another y connector. This would allow me to send the same mono signal to each VC. This would give me 90 watts per VC or 180 watts. The sub has a high efficiency so I could do this. My amp would see a 4ohm load and run cooler then a 2 ohm load and according to MTX the distortion levels and noise would be lower. |
#6
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As far as hooking the left channel to one coil and the right channel to
another, this is not typically done (this was the subject of a recent thread, here). Though the coils will NOT potentially fight one another as some have thought, there IS a potential for some cancellation (one coil recieving a signal 180 degrees out of phase from the other, thereby cancelling the signal), and for this reason I would not recommend it. Yeah, but if both amp channels are being driven by the same preamp signal (left and left, for example) then there's no cancellation. In short, it makes no difference. Don't sell your DVC to get a SVC. |
#7
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So, I think, you're saying to just use one side of the sub outputs and
then a Y-Connector to the amp and hookup a each channel, of the amp, to each VC? I'll see how this sounds and if there is amp power then there is no reason to get the SVC. The only advantage is that I could run my amp bridged for double the power. But that may be overkill. Subwoofer signals are suppose to be mono but I've heard were they are not. This makes no sense since 99% of music listeners have one subwoofer so what would be the point of mixing the sub signal into stereo. |
#8
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"Sub_Lover" wrote in message ups.com... So, I think, you're saying to just use one side of the sub outputs and then a Y-Connector to the amp and hookup a each channel, of the amp, to each VC? Yes, you could do it this way, but what I do is sum (add together) the left and right signal of the sub output and THEN run that into the amp. As you said, some bass is in stereo so this way you would not lose anything. Yes, as I pointed out in my previous post, there is the potential for cancellation but this is minimal. Also, the key is that any canellation that may occur does so BEFORE the signal gets to the amplifier. But, again this is very small (I never notice any in my system). MOSFET |
#9
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"Sub_Lover" wrote in news:1110260000.085798.31810
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com: The guy at Crutchfield suggested that a DVC sub driver driven with a 2 channel amp (one channel to each VC) would be better sounding then the same driver is a SVC version. Does this make sense? He said that the DVC sub would be more responsive? I also read where it's not a good idea to run a seperate channel to each VC. However isn't that one of the reasons for the DVC? One thing this discussion is missing so far is getting the most out of your amp for least amount of $$ Most 2ch amps on the market today give their highest continuous power when run in 4 ohm mono. For example, an amp rated at 75X2 RMS into 4 ohms is often rated at 300x1 RMS into 4 ohms. A 4 ohm SVC woofer and a relatively cheap amp can produce some good quality sound. I guess you could argue that you could achieve the same thing by running a 2 ohm stereo capable amp into a dual 2ohm woofer. In fact,in many cases this would theoretically draw the exact same amount of power from the same amplifier run in 4 ohms mono, but for some reason, at least in the lower cost amps, distortion seems to creep in earlier when run in the 2 ohm stereo setup. |
#10
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"BrianQ" wrote in message 0... In fact,in many cases this would theoretically draw the exact same amount of power from the same amplifier run in 4 ohms mono, but for some reason, at least in the lower cost amps, distortion seems to creep in earlier when run in the 2 ohm stereo setup. How can this be? When you run 4 ohm mono YOU ARE running it in 2 ohm stereo mode, just summed (stereo is not exactly the right word, two channel is more correct). 2 ohms + 2 ohms = 4 ohms. How could anything dealing with power be any different? Doesn't the speaker "see" EXACTLY the same thing? MOSFET MOSFET |
#11
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One thing this discussion is missing so far is getting
the most out of your amp for least amount of $$ Most 2ch amps on the market today give their highest continuous power when run in 4 ohm mono. For example, an amp rated at 75X2 RMS into 4 ohms is often rated at 300x1 RMS into 4 ohms. A 4 ohm SVC woofer and a relatively cheap amp can produce some good quality sound. I guess you could argue that you could achieve the same thing by running a 2 ohm stereo capable amp into a dual 2ohm woofer. In fact,in many cases this would theoretically draw the exact same amount of power from the same amplifier run in 4 ohms mono, but for some reason, at least in the lower cost amps, distortion seems to creep in earlier when run in the 2 ohm stereo setup. Nah, that's not the case. you can run 4 ohms bridged or two ohms stereo without any inherent benefit in either case - distortion or otherwise. |
#12
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How can this be? When you run 4 ohm mono YOU ARE running it in 2 ohm stereo
mode, just summed (stereo is not exactly the right word, two channel is more correct). 2 ohms + 2 ohms = 4 ohms. How could anything dealing with power be any different? Doesn't the speaker "see" EXACTLY the same thing? You are correct, MOSFET. The two are (almost) the same. In the vast majority of amplifiers out there, the power output will be identical in both cases. Technically, distortion will increase with the 4 ohm mono setup because you introduce crossover distortion and asymmetrical clipping. But these effects are inaudible in every amp I know of. |
#13
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MZ wrote in -
ip.org: I guess you could argue that you could achieve the same thing by running a 2 ohm stereo capable amp into a dual 2ohm woofer. In fact,in many cases this would theoretically draw the exact same amount of power from the same amplifier run in 4 ohms mono, but for some reason, at least in the lower cost amps, distortion seems to creep in earlier when run in the 2 ohm stereo setup. Nah, that's not the case. you can run 4 ohms bridged or two ohms stereo without any inherent benefit in either case - distortion or otherwise. I acknowledged that technically, at least, both configs should produce the same power. My comments about a difference are based only on general personal impressions/experience. Over the years I seem to have had alot more "comebacks" from amps cutting out when driven hard in 2 ohm stereo, and likewise seem to find the overall SQ to be lacking. Perhaps the deficit occurs on the sales floor when budget driven customers insist on buying a smaller 2 ch amp merely because it is "2 ohm stable", and that when the customer follows my recommendation, he ends up with an adequate sized 2ch amp running in mono to his woofers. A self-fulfilling prophecy? |
#14
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It's amazing to me the different advice I'm getting. I actually called
Infiity today and spoke with a tech. He told me that if I ran the Infinity Sub 12.1D ( DVC) with my MTX amp I could blow the driver. He said that my amp is underpowered. He said, that 90watts per VC is dangerous because the sub, when pushed hard, would not have enough juice. He is telling me to buy the SVC version 12.1 and then bridge my amp so I would have 360 watts total power available from my amp. This seems like an awful lot of juice for a driver that is suppose to have a 96db rating. My other sub, a 12" Titanic 1200, has an efficiency rating of 89db and is a SVC. I'm using the same MTX 502 Thunder in bridge mode and I have to turn down the gain because it's over powering my door speakers. If the efficiency ratings were ture then the Infinity sub should need about the 1/3 the power of my Dayton Titanic to reach the same SPL. Go figure. I'm a little bit confused. |
#15
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It's amazing to me the different advice I'm getting. I actually called
Infiity today and spoke with a tech. He told me that if I ran the Infinity Sub 12.1D ( DVC) with my MTX amp I could blow the driver. He said that my amp is underpowered. You could do a search on "underpowering" and what engineers have to say about this notion. Please keep in mind that the "tech" you spoke to is a minimum wage phone answerer with no background in electronics. He said, that 90watts per VC is dangerous because the sub, when pushed hard, would not have enough juice. He is telling me to buy the SVC version 12.1 and then bridge my amp so I would have 360 watts total power available from my amp. This seems like an awful lot of juice for a driver that is suppose to have a 96db rating. My other sub, a 12" Titanic 1200, has an efficiency rating of 89db and is a SVC. I'm using the same MTX 502 Thunder in bridge mode and I have to turn down the gain because it's over powering my door speakers. If the efficiency ratings were ture then the Infinity sub should need about the 1/3 the power of my Dayton Titanic to reach the same SPL. Go figure. I'm a little bit confused. I think I've already demonstrated to you why the sensitivity ratings of this driver are not accurate when compared to other drivers. |
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