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  #162   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"Jim Kollens" wrote in message
...
One thing to keep in mind about these posts that come up endlessly:

recording
used to be basically professional. Professional equipment tends to cost a

lot
of money. Heck, even my coffeemaker (used in restaurants) cost over $400.
But, then again, you can run the thing 24 hours a day. Also, you can buy

parts
for it and repair it yourself. And the coffee tastes better. Why? I

don't
know, but everyone comments on it. When you buy a $30 coffeemaker and it
breaks down in a month of continuous use, does anyone wonder but the

stupid?
Now that every 16 year old has his own studio that totals a few thousand
dollars, should it really sound like the studio that has a couple hundred
thousand dollars (or more) worth of equipment? Well, it better not and it
doesn't. I really hope everyone enjoys the equipment they can afford, but

it
is wise to be realistic about what is and what isn't real.


All true. But also true, that if you choose that few thousand dollars worth
of equipment very carefully and use it in a good room (the second hardest
thing) with great skill (the hardest thing), you can often get 99% of the
way there. There's a lot more sweat equity involved, like tracking
everything one at a time because you only have two or three channels of
good-quality inputs, but it can be done.

Most of the time, of course, it isn't, either because people without much
money to spend often aren't real knowledgeable about what the gear is that
gives you much-better-than-average results for the price, and so buy crap
equipment instead of the real bargains that are out there, or they have a
ghastly room, or they have no skill no real idea how to develop it. Or all
of the above.

Peace,
Paul


  #163   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
Paul Stamler wrote:

A couple of folks have built them, by the way, and the ones I've heard

from
have liked them. One guy has had oscillation problems, and I'm working

with
him now to try and figure out why, and how to fix it.


It's because of where he lives; tell him to move.


Naw; he sent it here, and it oscillates here too. My unit, one foot away,
doesn't.

Peace,
Paul


  #164   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
Paul Stamler wrote:

Mind you, I think Powell is talking nonsense about 90% of the time. But

if
he's operating in a real RFI jumgle, that power conditioner may be

making a
real difference.


I don't think he's "operatintg" at all. g

Rick Ruskin has a Faraday cage in which he keeps his basement, due to
the amazing amount of hash of all kinds around Seattle.


Hash -- oh, *that's* why Microsoft's products come out so buggy.

Peace,
Paul


  #165   Report Post  
Paul Stamler
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"Monte P McGuire" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Paul Stamler wrote:
Monte, while I think you're right and the troll is wrong, I also have
dramatically lowered noise in preamps by adding various things to the

power
supply, the same sorts of things that a power conditioner adds -- serious
RFI filtering. In an extremely high RFI field, it can make a difference.


That's certainly possible, but I think you'd want to do it inside of
the chassis, and not at the end of a power cord to really get it
right. Not that adding some ferrite and shunt capacitance to the
power cord _couldn't_ work, but that it's a better fix to open the box
up and deal with how cables pass in and out of the chassis and whether
RF can travel through the cabling into the circuit.


Agreed, and that's what I did. But a good line filter can get line-borne
crud out of several pieces of equipment at once, which is economical, and
won't void the warranty, which soldering bits inside the chassis will.

Peace,
Paul




  #166   Report Post  
Tonebarge
 
Posts: n/a
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Powell wrote:

E.A.R. - no, not according to their web site.


!?! You might try looking he
http://www.ear-yoshino.com/productde...p?page=1&id=27

I'm not sure which is weaker, your search skills, your "recognition of
talent" skills or your people skills. I noticed the shots you're taking
at Scott Dorsey. Do you know anything about him? Please forgive me if
you took the short yellow bus to school or are in any way retarded or
mentally handicapped. Just plain stupid, maybe? A cloth-eared bint?

BTW, the EAR 824M costs ~$7,000.00 so it may be outside your range. I
quite like mine. What records do you have credits on? I don't
recognize your name and can't seem to find anything about you in the
world of audio recording or production. One would think you're quite
the "pro", given the targets you've chosen. Personally, I think you're
an asshole, but that's just my take on it

I would say that the ART is just right for you. Keep on quacking.

TB
--
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true"


  #167   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Paul Stamler wrote:

Rick Ruskin has a Faraday cage in which he keeps his basement, due to
the amazing amount of hash of all kinds around Seattle.


Hash -- oh, *that's* why Microsoft's products come out so buggy.


Yeah, what does Dinty Moore know about code?

--
ha
  #168   Report Post  
hank alrich
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

Tonebarge wrote:

I would say that the ART is just right for you. Keep on quacking.


He wisherd to be a turkey but he couldn't afford the big feathers.

--
ha
  #170   Report Post  
mr.gefell
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


If the sound deviates from anything but a flat response
then preference comes into play.


I recently enjoyed a casual comparison of four truly excellent preamps
(Gordon Model 3, Grace Lunatec V. 3, Great River MP2-MH and Millennia
Media HV-3D), all with admirable linearity to 100 KHz or well beyond,
all with admirable phase coherence and extremely low noise floors
bumping theoretical minimum, and they all sounded different. _Flat
response_ is a single aspect of performance and not necessarily
indicative of any unit's sound.



hey Hank

i have the gordon audio model 2 mic pre,and it sounds...

well you probably know that


  #171   Report Post  
mr.gefell
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


How would you know?



oh boy.



LOL!!!!!
  #172   Report Post  
Jean Marie MATHIEU
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in message ...
Garthrr wrote:
In article ,
(Scott Dorsey)
writes:

With the Aphex 107, you can bypass the tube stage. You lose only about 10 dB
of gain and it sounds a whole lot better.


How complicated is it to do that? Could it even be done in such a way as to
allow one to switch the tube in and out?


It's not that bad... I think we discussed it here back when the 107 was a
much more popular unit than it is today.

The tube stage is running with very low voltage, but it's not really in
starvation mode because it's also running without any plate resistor at
all. Instead, there is an I/V stage made with an op-amp that takes the
signal off the plate. Bypassing the whole RPA is a matter of removing
the tube and putting a capacitor between the grid line and the output of
the I/O op-amp.

There is also a little trimmer point inside there that controls the
linearity. Aphex sets it at the factory for a particular distortion
level, but you can turn it up or down too.
--scott


I did the two mods. With the trimmer, you can have a more dynamic
sound but it becomme harsch.
After that i founded a test point on the output of the Input op-amp. I
disconnected the switch jack that i disn't use and i connected the
test point to this jack (without any cap because the asymetrical input
of my Tascam has already a cap). So on the switch jack i have an
output of the first stage of the 107 (i think nok to drive long lines
because not symtrical and sure not a very low impedance) and on the
output jack i have the normal output.

The result ? The level is 12 db lower, but i discovered that the input
stage was beginning to clip with in input level 10 db higher than the
clip level with the complete 107... so i lossed 2 db...
And the sound is really more natural. Not harsh on the violin and the
trompet. It's A LOT better, really less distortion... with less noise.

Jean-Marie Mathieu
  #173   Report Post  
Richard Kuschel
 
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?


"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1080485716k@trad...

In article

writes:

Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic

preamp for
around four hundred clams?






Wrong quotation guys,
I didn't ask the question

Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
  #174   Report Post  
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[email protected] coates.rd@gmail.com is offline
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Posts: 2
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

On Thursday, March 25, 2004 at 7:22:51 PM UTC-6, £ Î Z @ R Ð wrote:
Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic preamp for
around four hundred clams?

--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

Go to http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.


In case anyone else stumble across this thread I will say...Scott Dorsey is full of ****e! The ART Pro MPAII is a fantastic, mic preamp with full voltage going to the tubes (150 volts). It is also very sensitive to tube changes. I've extensively tested many NOS tubes and found JAN Phillips 5751s are the best. I've A/Bd the ART Pro MPAII with the JAN Phillips 5751s against many high end pres like the UA610, and the Analog Designs Black Box pre and neither can hold a candle to the modded ART.
  #176   Report Post  
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geoff geoff is offline
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Posts: 1,812
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

On 14/11/2018 8:03 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 25, 2004 at 7:22:51 PM UTC-6, £ Î Z @ R Ð wrote:
Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic preamp for
around four hundred clams?

--
*·.¸_¸.·'¨¨)
¸.·'
(_¸.·' Jonathan

Go to
http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project. I play all the instruments.


In case anyone else stumble across this thread I will say...Scott Dorsey is full of ****e! The ART Pro MPAII is a fantastic, mic preamp with full voltage going to the tubes (150 volts). It is also very sensitive to tube changes. I've extensively tested many NOS tubes and found JAN Phillips 5751s are the best. I've A/Bd the ART Pro MPAII with the JAN Phillips 5751s against many high end pres like the UA610, and the Analog Designs Black Box pre and neither can hold a candle to the modded ART.



Um, if a preamp is that great why is it so sensitive to tube changes -
I'd call that a weak point.

Also what is 'best' ? What you mean is that the preamp with that
particular tube was most to your subjective liking - unless the others
tried actually caused problems ?

I'm glad you prefer you preamp to various others, but that doesn't mean
everybody has to, even if it good value for money.

Myself, I'd prefer a neutral accurate preamp, but that's just me.

geoff
  #177   Report Post  
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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Posts: 2,820
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

On 14/11/2018 8:13 am, geoff wrote:
On 14/11/2018 8:03 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, March 25, 2004 at 7:22:51 PM UTC-6, £ Î Z @ R Ð wrote:
Anyone have a good recommendation for a warm, tube, 2-channel mic
preamp for
around four hundred clams?
Go to
http://www.guestroomproject.com/ to
hear some music from my upcoming solo album,
the Guestroom Project.* I play all the instruments.


In case anyone else stumble across this thread I will say...Scott
Dorsey is full of ****e! The ART Pro MPAII is a fantastic, mic preamp
with full voltage going to the tubes (150 volts). It is also very
sensitive to tube changes. I've extensively tested many NOS tubes and
found JAN Phillips 5751s are the best. I've A/Bd the ART Pro MPAII
with the JAN Phillips 5751s against many high end pres like the UA610,
and the Analog Designs Black Box pre and neither can hold a candle to
the modded ART.



Um, if a preamp is that great why is it so sensitive to tube changes -
I'd call that a weak point.

Also what is 'best' ?* What you mean is that the preamp with that
particular tube was most to your subjective liking - unless the others
tried actually caused problems ?

I'm glad you prefer you preamp to various others, but that doesn't mean
everybody has to, even if it good value for money.

Myself, I'd prefer a neutral accurate preamp, but that's just me.


Nah, not *just* you! :-)



  #178   Report Post  
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16,853
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

wrote:
In case anyone else stumble across this thread I will say...Scott Dorsey is=
full of ****e! The ART Pro MPAII is a fantastic, mic preamp with full volt=
age going to the tubes (150 volts). It is also very sensitive to tube chang=
es. I've extensively tested many NOS tubes and found JAN Phillips 5751s are=
the best. I've A/Bd the ART Pro MPAII with the JAN Phillips 5751s against =
many high end pres like the UA610, and the Analog Designs Black Box pre and=
neither can hold a candle to the modded ART.


I'm glad you like it. I am sure it's useful for some things.

But don't call it a tube preamp. It's a solid state preamp with a tube
distortion stage. Yes, it does have a 150V B+ for the distortion stage
(which is NOT even remotely the same as having 150V on the plates), but
that doesn't make it linear and it doesn't make it sound like a real tube
preamp (where most of the coloration comes from the transformers).

The actual mike preamp section is the typical bargain basement design with
2N4401/2N4403 transistors paralleled for low noise. It's a good design in
terms of getting decent performance out of cheap parts, but there's no tube
and no transformer there.

If you like it, that's great. But call it what it is.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #179   Report Post  
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geoff geoff is offline
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Posts: 1,812
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

On 15/11/2018 5:54 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote:
In case anyone else stumble across this thread I will say...Scott Dorsey is=
full of ****e! The ART Pro MPAII is a fantastic, mic preamp with full volt=
age going to the tubes (150 volts). It is also very sensitive to tube chang=
es. I've extensively tested many NOS tubes and found JAN Phillips 5751s are=
the best. I've A/Bd the ART Pro MPAII with the JAN Phillips 5751s against =
many high end pres like the UA610, and the Analog Designs Black Box pre and=
neither can hold a candle to the modded ART.


I'm glad you like it. I am sure it's useful for some things.

But don't call it a tube preamp. It's a solid state preamp with a tube
distortion stage. Yes, it does have a 150V B+ for the distortion stage
(which is NOT even remotely the same as having 150V on the plates), but
that doesn't make it linear and it doesn't make it sound like a real tube
preamp (where most of the coloration comes from the transformers).

The actual mike preamp section is the typical bargain basement design with
2N4401/2N4403 transistors paralleled for low noise. It's a good design in
terms of getting decent performance out of cheap parts, but there's no tube
and no transformer there.

If you like it, that's great. But call it what it is.
--scott




Which is a "solid -state mic preamp with starved-plate tube FX".

geoff
  #180   Report Post  
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[email protected] coates.rd@gmail.com is offline
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Posts: 2
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-6, geoff wrote:
On 15/11/2018 5:54 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote:
In case anyone else stumble across this thread I will say...Scott Dorsey is=
full of ****e! The ART Pro MPAII is a fantastic, mic preamp with full volt=
age going to the tubes (150 volts). It is also very sensitive to tube chang=
es. I've extensively tested many NOS tubes and found JAN Phillips 5751s are=
the best. I've A/Bd the ART Pro MPAII with the JAN Phillips 5751s against =
many high end pres like the UA610, and the Analog Designs Black Box pre and=
neither can hold a candle to the modded ART.


I'm glad you like it. I am sure it's useful for some things.

But don't call it a tube preamp. It's a solid state preamp with a tube
distortion stage. Yes, it does have a 150V B+ for the distortion stage
(which is NOT even remotely the same as having 150V on the plates), but
that doesn't make it linear and it doesn't make it sound like a real tube
preamp (where most of the coloration comes from the transformers).

The actual mike preamp section is the typical bargain basement design with
2N4401/2N4403 transistors paralleled for low noise. It's a good design in
terms of getting decent performance out of cheap parts, but there's no tube
and no transformer there.

If you like it, that's great. But call it what it is.
--scott




Which is a "solid -state mic preamp with starved-plate tube FX".

geoff


All true(except the starved plate bit)but I don't care. I use my ears. I don't give a rat's arse if it is a "true" tube pre or the tubes are a distortion stage etc etc. I use my ears. All I can say is it sounds better (more 3D, better bass, high end clarity, more pleasing harmonics, plus ability to mess with input impedance etc.) to my ears than preamps like the UA 610, Black Box Analog Designs, The Brick, Summit Audio 2BA, Daking, or any of the Warm Audio pres, all of which I A/Bd the ART against. Check out the Gearslutz thread where in a blind test the ART was chosen more often than a number of high end pres. In addition, you may have noticed that the current audio market is flooded with devices designed to add distortion. I'm well aware of hysteresis type distortion Vs distortion from valves. Transformers are in my experience more variable in the type or degree of distortion (hysteresis) they are capable of producing Vs valves which seem to be more predictable as far as how they sound when pushed. If I want transformer saturation, I follow the ART with a couple of stand alone huge vintage 600:600 Stancor transformers.


  #181   Report Post  
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Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
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Posts: 2,417
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

On Thu, 15 Nov 2018 06:24:26 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-6, geoff wrote:
On 15/11/2018 5:54 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote:
In case anyone else stumble across this thread I will say...Scott Dorsey is=
full of ****e! The ART Pro MPAII is a fantastic, mic preamp with full volt=
age going to the tubes (150 volts). It is also very sensitive to tube chang=
es. I've extensively tested many NOS tubes and found JAN Phillips 5751s are=
the best. I've A/Bd the ART Pro MPAII with the JAN Phillips 5751s against =
many high end pres like the UA610, and the Analog Designs Black Box pre and=
neither can hold a candle to the modded ART.

I'm glad you like it. I am sure it's useful for some things.

But don't call it a tube preamp. It's a solid state preamp with a tube
distortion stage. Yes, it does have a 150V B+ for the distortion stage
(which is NOT even remotely the same as having 150V on the plates), but
that doesn't make it linear and it doesn't make it sound like a real tube
preamp (where most of the coloration comes from the transformers).

The actual mike preamp section is the typical bargain basement design with
2N4401/2N4403 transistors paralleled for low noise. It's a good design in
terms of getting decent performance out of cheap parts, but there's no tube
and no transformer there.

If you like it, that's great. But call it what it is.
--scott




Which is a "solid -state mic preamp with starved-plate tube FX".

geoff


All true(except the starved plate bit)but I don't care. I use my ears. I don't give a rat's arse if it is a "true" tube pre or the tubes are a distortion stage etc etc. I use my ears. All I can say is it sounds better (more 3D, better bass, high end clarity, more pleasing harmonics, plus ability to mess with input impedance etc.) to my ears than preamps like the UA 610, Black Box Analog Designs, The Brick, Summit Audio 2BA, Daking, or any of the Warm Audio pres, all of which I A/Bd the ART against. Check out the Gearslutz thread where in a blind test the ART was chosen more often than a number of high end pres. In addition, you may have noticed that the current audio market is flooded with devices designed to add distortion. I'm well aware of hysteresis type distortion Vs distortion from valves. Transformers are in my experience more variable in the type or degree of distortion (hysteresis) they are capable of producing Vs valves which seem to be more predictable as far as how they
sound when pushed. If I want transformer saturation, I follow the ART with a couple of stand alone huge vintage 600:600 Stancor transformers.


If you want a saturated transformer, make it a small one, not a huge
one.

d

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

geoff wrote:

Which is a "solid -state mic preamp with starved-plate tube FX".


Well, maybe. It's more like the Aphex "Reflected Plate Amplifier" than
a typical starved-grid amplifier stage. Still funny-sounding but the more
I think about it the more I wonder if it isn't violating Aphex's patent.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #183   Report Post  
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Posts: 16,853
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

wrote:

All true(except the starved plate bit)but I don't care. I use my ears. I do=
n't give a rat's arse if it is a "true" tube pre or the tubes are a distort=
ion stage etc etc. I use my ears.


This is fine, but don't call it a tube preamp.

All I can say is it sounds better (more 3=
D, better bass, high end clarity, more pleasing harmonics, plus ability to =
mess with input impedance etc.) to my ears than preamps like the UA 610, Bl=
ack Box Analog Designs, The Brick, Summit Audio 2BA, Daking, or any of the =
Warm Audio pres, all of which I A/Bd the ART against.


Okay, so you like the particular coloration of the tube distortion stage
more than you like the coloration of standard tube preamps. That's fine.
I can certainly see that for some things (like electric bass) even if I
totally disagree for other things (like vocals).

But if you call it a "tube preamp" and it doesn't sound anything like a
tube preamp, you're going to mislead people who want a tube preamp.
The first time I tried one of the fake tube devices I thought it was
broken because I was expecting it to sound like a normal tube preamp and
it in fact sounded like a preamp with a badly misbiased tube.

Check out the Gearslu=
tz thread where in a blind test the ART was chosen more often than a number=
of high end pres.


Again, I am happy for the people who chose them that they won't have to
spend the money on a Millennia.

In addition, you may have noticed that the current audio=
market is flooded with devices designed to add distortion. I'm well aware =
of hysteresis type distortion Vs distortion from valves. Transformers are i=
n my experience more variable in the type or degree of distortion (hysteres=
is) they are capable of producing Vs valves which seem to be more predictab=
le as far as how they sound when pushed.


This is a tremendous oversimplification, but until the datasheets for these
devices gives you spectra for tones and intermod, all you can do is say "it
sounds like a pentode preamp with a lossy input transformer" or "it sounds
like a triode preamp with a Jensen JE-115" and otherwise make somewhat vague
descriptions of the sonic effect.

This is why I get so upset when people lump everything into one "q00l tube
mike pre" category.

If I want transformer saturation, =
I follow the ART with a couple of stand alone huge vintage 600:600 Stancor =
transformers.


If you're looking for that bass compression effect that you get from
overloading transformers, you might want to consider something smaller.
The reason why the Triad LS-50 and all those other giant isolation
transformers were so popular in studios was that they were nearly impossible
to overload. The coloration on them is pretty constant with level, unlike
easily-saturated devices.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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geoff geoff is offline
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Posts: 1,812
Default Recommend a ~$400 2-channel tube mic-preamp?

On 16/11/2018 3:24 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 14, 2018 at 1:27:27 PM UTC-6, geoff wrote:
On 15/11/2018 5:54 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
wrote:
In case anyone else stumble across this thread I will say...Scott Dorsey is=
full of ****e! The ART Pro MPAII is a fantastic, mic preamp with full volt=
age going to the tubes (150 volts). It is also very sensitive to tube chang=
es. I've extensively tested many NOS tubes and found JAN Phillips 5751s are=
the best. I've A/Bd the ART Pro MPAII with the JAN Phillips 5751s against =
many high end pres like the UA610, and the Analog Designs Black Box pre and=
neither can hold a candle to the modded ART.

I'm glad you like it. I am sure it's useful for some things.

But don't call it a tube preamp. It's a solid state preamp with a tube
distortion stage. Yes, it does have a 150V B+ for the distortion stage
(which is NOT even remotely the same as having 150V on the plates), but
that doesn't make it linear and it doesn't make it sound like a real tube
preamp (where most of the coloration comes from the transformers).

The actual mike preamp section is the typical bargain basement design with
2N4401/2N4403 transistors paralleled for low noise. It's a good design in
terms of getting decent performance out of cheap parts, but there's no tube
and no transformer there.

If you like it, that's great. But call it what it is.
--scott




Which is a "solid -state mic preamp with starved-plate tube FX".

geoff


All true(except the starved plate bit)but I don't care. I use my ears.


Well "semi-starved" then . 150V is no great chops.

geoff
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