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#1
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LS3/5A for monitoring
I have run across a killer deal on a pair of JR-149's (modified LS3/5A's).
I'd like to use them for mixing, but I've read that the technology on these speakers is behind the times and newer monitors sound better. My budget is only about $250. Should I go with the 149's ($175) or buy a pair of newer reference monitors? Also, can anyone reccomend a cheap amp for them? Thanks!! -- Jonny Durango http://www.soundclick.com/ratcitymusic.htm "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after WWII. |
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#2
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LS3/5A for monitoring
Jonny Durango wrote:
I have run across a killer deal on a pair of JR-149's (modified LS3/5A's). I'd like to use them for mixing, but I've read that the technology on these speakers is behind the times and newer monitors sound better. My budget is only about $250. Should I go with the 149's ($175) or buy a pair of newer reference monitors? Also, can anyone reccomend a cheap amp for them? Thanks!! They have the flattest midrange of any monkey box speaker that you will find. They don't have any low end to speak of. For that price, if you buy them and you don't like them, you can sell them for a profit. With most of the newer monitors in that price range, you will have trouble giving them away when you decide to upgrade. Listen to them. Either you'll like them or not. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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#3
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LS3/5A for monitoring
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#4
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LS3/5A for monitoring
Ditto to what Scott & Mike said. I use my LS3/5a's every day.
As for amps to power them: you do *not* want a powerful amplifier, because you could blow them up easily and then you're screwed, as you can't duplicate the individually-matched drivers in your pair. They also, in my experience, tend not to like the modern sort of amplifier with very low output impedance. At least the original 3/5a's do; can't speak to the 149s. I drive mine with a cleaned-up Dynaco Stereo 70; there are tons of these out there on e-bay. The cleaning-up consists basically of recapping, retubing and replacing most of the resistors with metal films, plus adding a sensible amount of capacitance to the power supply. Even unmodified, though, the Dynaco will do a good job driving these speakers. If you do go solid-state, get the lowest-powered amp in Hafler's P-x000 series. And don't go for super-heavy speaker cable. Peace, Paul |
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#5
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LS3/5A for monitoring
"Jonny Durango" wrote in message
news:4olbc.62786$JO3.38124@attbi_s04... I have run across a killer deal on a pair of JR-149's (modified LS3/5A's). I'd like to use them for mixing, but I've read that the technology on these speakers is behind the times and newer monitors sound better. JR-149s are NOT LS3/5A's modified or otherwise. In fact modified LS3/5A's should be avoided in my experience. LS3/5A's that meet the original BBC specifications are among the best sounding speakers ever made and much better sounding than most contemporary "monitors." The "gotcha" is that they blow up really easily and the drivers are made of unobtanium. -- Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined! 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com |
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#6
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LS3/5A for monitoring
LS3/5A's that meet the original BBC specifications are
among the best sounding speakers ever made and much better sounding than most contemporary "monitors." The "gotcha" is that they blow up really easily and the drivers are made of unobtanium. I seem to be the only audiophile (the only one who ever reviewed products, at least) who doesn't think very much of the LS3/5a. It might be a perfectly good monitor speaker. A monitor doesn't necessarily have to be accurate -- it need only "tell" the engineer what he needs to know. But as an audiophile speaker for home use, it stinks. It's a bad consumer speaker, because it was never designed for consumer use. It's inefficient. Worse, it can't handle a high-powered amp. * And at high volume levels, it sounds as if Something Terrible Is About To Happen. The larger driver is made of Bextrene. Bextrene was the first plastic to be widely used in speakers. Unfortunately, Bextrene cones are not very light. Bextrene drivers are so sluggish, they turn whatever was lively and immediate in the original sound into sticky muck. If that's what you like, fine. But don't go telling me the LS3/5a is a speaker that can be spoken of in the same breath as a good 'stat or planar, or the better B&W systems. It can't. The LS3/5a is a fine speaker if your musical taste is akin to the little boy in "To Kill a Mockingbird" who pours molasses over his food. I'd own Bose 901s before I'd waste my money on such -- incompetent -- speakers. * When I worked at Barclay Recording in PA, I sold speakers from a little company called Transduction, Ltd. All their designs used KEF drivers. Their T5 knocked the pants off the original KEF 105, for less than half the price. And then there was the T2, which used the woofer and tweeter of the LS3/5a (B100 / T27?). The T2 cabinet was larger, and the sound was a touch "boxy." But the T2 was much more efficient, and could play at ear-splitting levels without falling apart. I remember connecting a huge Audio Research transistor amp to it, and it took the full output (on peaks, of course) without breaking into a sweat. |
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#7
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LS3/5A for monitoring
I think a better choice would be a pair of Acoustic Energy Evo 1 @ $299/pr
MSRP. A much better speaker than they have any right to be at that price. http://www.audiophilesystems.com/ae/index.htm in the US, http://www.acoustic-energy.co.uk/pro...dspeakers.html elsewhere. "Jonny Durango" wrote in message news:4olbc.62786$JO3.38124@attbi_s04... I have run across a killer deal on a pair of JR-149's (modified LS3/5A's). I'd like to use them for mixing, but I've read that the technology on these speakers is behind the times and newer monitors sound better. My budget is only about $250. Should I go with the 149's ($175) or buy a pair of newer reference monitors? Also, can anyone reccomend a cheap amp for them? Thanks!! -- Jonny Durango http://www.soundclick.com/ratcitymusic.htm "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -- Herman Goering, Hitler's Reich-Marshall, at the Nuremberg trials after WWII. |
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#8
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LS3/5A for monitoring
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message ... I seem to be the only audiophile (the only one who ever reviewed products, at least) who doesn't think very much of the LS3/5a. Snip It's inefficient. Worse, it can't handle a high-powered amp. * And at high volume levels, it sounds as if Something Terrible Is About To Happen. then there was the T2, which used the woofer and tweeter of the LS3/5a (B100 / T27?). The T2 cabinet was larger, and the sound was a touch "boxy." But the T2 was much more efficient, and could play at ear-splitting levels without falling apart. I remember connecting a huge Audio Research transistor amp to it, and it took the full output (on peaks, of course) without breaking into a sweat. Since you say it used the same drivers, maybe you can tell us how they worked all those miracles from a larger cabinet and maybe a different Xover? The usual fix for increased bass response and power handling was to add a B139! TonyP. |
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#9
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LS3/5A for monitoring
Jonny Durango wrote:
I have run across a killer deal on a pair of JR-149's (modified LS3/5A's). I'd like to use them for mixing, Assuming they are at least of the quality offered by my first generation KEF Coda - same basic ploy - you will love them and you will eventually need a pair of subwoofers. only about $250. Should I go with the 149's ($175) or buy a pair of newer reference monitors? My choice, based on asumptions above, would be to get them. Also, can anyone reccomend a cheap amp for them? Power amp in a second hand NAD 302 comes to mind ... I run mine on a 1976 Sentec PA77 (modified, electrolytic cap in feedback path replaced with something else that could just be tinkered in) and the pair of ATC 9" boxes that sub them via an almost unmodified PA77, it just has an input volume control added. Cross-over is active, 115 Hz 18 dB pr. octave, also from Sentec. End result is reasonably flat from 30 to 12 with a benign roll off above. Budget: low. Loudness: Enough. Mostly that is the system used when commenting on stuff that someone posts, because this machine is connected to it. It is not the only system used, but it is the one that is most convenient to use with this officeputer. Jonny Durango Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
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#10
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LS3/5A for monitoring
William Sommerwerck wrote:
[Bob Ohlsson quoted] LS3/5A's that meet the original BBC specifications are among the best sounding speakers ever made and much better sounding than most contemporary "monitors." The "gotcha" is that they blow up really easily and the drivers are made of unobtanium. I seem to be the only audiophile (the only one who ever reviewed products, at least) who doesn't think very much of the LS3/5a. I haven't heard the real ones, and this isn't about them. It is about a lookalike 7 liter box with a 5" KEF B110 and a T27 crossed over at 12/18 at 3500 Hz if the description is accurate. It might be a perfectly good monitor speaker. The original versioning was for use in an OB van, upper bass is intentionally a bit bloated and lower bass isn't - this based on magazine descriptions of the real stuff. I braced my KEF Coda's and re-arranged the damping material and got them a lot drier, so much so that they needed 2 dB more EQ at 40 Hz than they got previously. But as an audiophile speaker for home use, it stinks. It's a bad consumer speaker, because it was never designed for consumer use. It probably tends to end up in too large spaces. A room the size of an OB van makes sense. It's inefficient. Spec for my Coda's is 19 watts to produce 96 dB at 1 meter. Up against a wall it is less bad because their low end roll off changes. These boxes are probably for hanging on a wall. Worse, it can't handle a high-powered amp. * Gee, I should have known that. I used mine for listening less unsafe to high power amps when pushing them to hear whether that made them sound good, mostly it didn't if it was needed. On their own and with 6 dB bass EQ they really do need a 100 watt amp. I have a spare tweeter repair kit, but that is because I got two when blowing up a tweeter when something DIY oscillated. The larger driver is made of Bextrene. Bextrene was the first plastic to be widely used in speakers. Unfortunately, Bextrene cones are not very light. Bextrene drivers are so sluggish, they turn whatever was lively and immediate in the original sound into sticky muck. trap Please make that point over in rec.audio.tech .... /trap If that's what you like, fine. But don't go telling me the LS3/5a is a speaker that can be spoken of in the same breath as a good 'stat or planar, or the better B&W systems. It can't. You must be a smoker then, I find it easy. The LS3/5a is a fine speaker .... I'll leave comments on the real stuff to those that know it. When I worked at Barclay Recording in PA, I sold speakers from a little company called Transduction, Ltd. All their designs used KEF drivers. And this seems to be something similar from JR. They are probably - as I assume the Coda's (x) I have - tailored for "not an OB van" (x) now it is the smallest KEF Cresta that is the "lookalike". ... which used the woofer and tweeter of the LS3/5a (B100 / T27?). The T2 cabinet was larger, and the sound was a touch "boxy. A larger box is not always better, especially not if a heavy membrane driver has been developed to make it possible to use a small box. But the T2 was much more efficient, and could play at ear-splitting levels without falling apart. I remember connecting a huge Audio Research transistor amp to it, and it took the full output (on peaks, of course) without breaking into a sweat. This must be about the cross-over then, anybody know the specs for the "real stuff" cross-over? - I do know, in as much as Ole Lund Christensen told me this, that the ferrite core x-over coils in the ones I have are designed to saturate if it gets unsafe .... Oh, mine are even mounted as they would be in an OB van, hanging on the wall above the window in a narrow niche ... mostly I listen 70 degrees off axis and that is btw. where I measured them. I have better options for measuring now, I should probably recheck. Kind regards Peter Larsen -- ******************************************* * My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk * ******************************************* |
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#11
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LS3/5A for monitoring
William Sommerwerck wrote:
* When I worked at Barclay Recording in PA, I sold speakers from a little company called Transduction, Ltd. All their designs used KEF drivers. Their T5 knocked the pants off the original KEF 105, for less than half the price. And then there was the T2, which used the woofer and tweeter of the LS3/5a (B100 / T27?). B110 actually. That's 10 bigger and must make all the difference. My home-grown LS3-5As are lead-lined (instead of the car-dampinng stuff). MAkes stuff-all difference to the sound, but impresses people when they try to lift 'em. I use mine in an editing scenario, and over the years have learned to compensate for the bass-lack visually on teh woofer cones. The T2 cabinet was larger, and the sound was a touch "boxy." Phew. At least my 105/2s don't sound boxy, to me. geoff |
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#12
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LS3/5A for monitoring
The originals were used in OB vans, yes, but they were first specified for
use in edit suites -- suites at the Beeb being a euphemism for cubicles, quite small. And they were, in fact, intended to be used up against the wall, probably not toed in, and there's a small dip in the midrange intended to compensate for the closeness. Listened to from 10' away they're lackluster; listened to from 5' away they're superb. I only wish they were magnetically shielded; ah well, a flat monitor screen will take care of that someday. Peace, Paul |
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#13
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LS3/5A for monitoring
Bob Olhsson wrote:
"Jonny Durango" wrote in message news:4olbc.62786$JO3.38124@attbi_s04... I have run across a killer deal on a pair of JR-149's (modified LS3/5A's). I'd like to use them for mixing, but I've read that the technology on these speakers is behind the times and newer monitors sound better. JR-149s are NOT LS3/5A's modified or otherwise. In fact modified LS3/5A's should be avoided in my experience. LS3/5A's that meet the original BBC specifications are among the best sounding speakers ever made and much better sounding than most contemporary "monitors." The "gotcha" is that they blow up really easily and the drivers are made of unobtanium. I'd echo Bob's reply - please don't confuse JR-149's with LS3/5a's. LS3/5a's use tightly matched drive units and each crossover is matched to the particular drivers in that speaker by means of a tapped autotransformer. JR-149's aren't bad speakers and there are some people who prefer them to LS3/5a's but they don't tend to be as expensive as LS3/5a's either. The great news for LS3/5a fans is that drivers are still available - in fact, you can even buy brand new officially licensed complete speakers from both Stirling Broadcast and Richard Allan. Stirling also offer alternative crossovers and cabinets that match the original LS3/5a prototypes (which are slightly thinner than the production version). Go to http://www.ls35a.com if you want to know more about these great little speakers. Cheers. James. |
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#14
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LS3/5A for monitoring
Paul Stamler wrote:
Ditto to what Scott & Mike said. I use my LS3/5a's every day. As for amps to power them: you do *not* want a powerful amplifier, because you could blow them up easily and then you're screwed, as you can't duplicate the individually-matched drivers in your pair. They also, in my experience, tend not to like the modern sort of amplifier with very low output impedance. At least the original 3/5a's do; can't speak to the 149s. Quite a few people like to drive them with valve amps. I drive mine with a Quad 405-2 which is a combination that was often used by the BBC although many people would say that they deserve something even better. The drive units for the newer 11 ohm version are still available but not for the old 15 ohm version. Cheers. James. |
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#15
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LS3/5A for monitoring
Paul Stamler wrote:
The originals were used in OB vans, yes, but they were first specified for use in edit suites -- suites at the Beeb being a euphemism for cubicles, quite small. And they were, in fact, intended to be used up against the wall, probably not toed in, and there's a small dip in the midrange intended to compensate for the closeness. Listened to from 10' away they're lackluster; listened to from 5' away they're superb. I only wish they were magnetically shielded; ah well, a flat monitor screen will take care of that someday. Peace, Paul I have my LS3/5a's just a few inches away from 2 CRT monitors with no ill effects. NS10's are far worse. Cheers. James. |
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#16
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LS3/5A for monitoring
Anyone else here use Rogers LS7as?
That has been my main set for 7 or 8 years. They don't have that much to do with the LS3/5as since they were not designed by the BBC. They were marketed more for the audiophile community. Anyway, I like them. They are bit too large for my room (especially since I have been using them as nearfields for the last 2 years). It takes about 10 feet for the low end to form accurately. But they still sound very nice. I keep thinking it might be time to change the tweeters as they are probably the originals meaning they are about 15 years old! Rob R. |
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