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#1
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Turntable Bearing Oil
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable?
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#2
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Turntable Bearing Oil
wb wrote:
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? That would be oil for the thrust bearing for the platter. |
#3
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Turntable Bearing Oil
"wb" wrote in message ... What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? S. |
#4
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Turntable Bearing Oil
wb wrote:
What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? Thorens. Regards Peter Larsen |
#5
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Turntable Bearing Oil
Serge Auckland wrote:
"wb" wrote in message ... What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? S. thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen the long threads that never come to any consensus. |
#6
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Turntable Bearing Oil
"wb" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: "wb" wrote in message ... What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? S. thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen the long threads that never come to any consensus. For high-end applications, you really should only use motor oil that has been "broken in" for 5000 miles in a Rolls Royce from 1956. You can purchase small vials of this oil from your local high-end audio salon if you want, but true high-end aficionados will want to make it themselves in their very own '56 Rolls Royce, sold as a Thorens "turntable accessory" at better high-end shops worldwide. |
#7
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Turntable Bearing Oil
But seriously, folks...
I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of the oil that they use on the slower-turning, higher load shafts. Clock oil is designed to evaporate less over time. Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high temperature applications, being pumped from a sump. Evaporation is not a primary concern with automotive motor oil. |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Turntable Bearing Oil
Karl Uppiano wrote:
But seriously, folks... I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of the oil that they use on the slower-turning, higher load shafts. Clock oil is designed to evaporate less over time. And it is very clean. Additives turn into abrasives. Which is why I opted to pay the amazing price for the real stuff when being told that it was available as sparepart. Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high temperature applications, being pumped from a sump. Evaporation is not a primary concern with automotive motor oil. You contradict yourself. Also SAE30 car engine oil is the Studer recommendation for a similar type of lubrication, ie. the Revox main axle. I would have used Mobil 1 if I hadn't come across a vial of that very special original lubricant, based on it needing less additives by being synthetic. Regards Peter Larsen |
#9
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Turntable Bearing Oil
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message ... Karl Uppiano wrote: But seriously, folks... I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of the oil that they use on the slower-turning, higher load shafts. Clock oil is designed to evaporate less over time. And it is very clean. Additives turn into abrasives. Which is why I opted to pay the amazing price for the real stuff when being told that it was available as sparepart. Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high temperature applications, being pumped from a sump. Evaporation is not a primary concern with automotive motor oil. You contradict yourself. Also SAE30 car engine oil is the Studer recommendation for a similar type of lubrication, ie. the Revox main axle. I would have used Mobil 1 if I hadn't come across a vial of that very special original lubricant, based on it needing less additives by being synthetic. I'm just stating what I have read on watch and clock oils. I doubt that a clock or turntable needs oil that is optimized for high-temperature, high-rpm applications. It does need the oil to stay put for years without turning to varnish or drying out. The Studer/Revox recommendation might not be optimal, you know. It might be expedient, however, given the high availability of automotive motor oil. If you lubricate the device regularly, it probably makes no difference. Regards Peter Larsen |
#10
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Turntable Bearing Oil
Look at Joel Boutreux' eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.de/_W0QQsassZjoelQ2dtd He is a former Thorens engineer, and expert in bearings & lubrication. |
#11
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Turntable Bearing Oil
Karl Uppiano wrote:
Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high temperature applications ... being pumped from a sump. Evaporation is not a primary concern with automotive motor oil. That is where the contradiction is, if it runs hot then evaporation is a concern. I'm just stating what I have read on watch and clock oils. On that I agree with you. An oil with good high pressure performance is needed to avoid metal to metal contact, and it obviously also needs to remain a liquid. I doubt that a clock or turntable needs oil that is optimized for high-temperature, high-rpm applications. It does need the oil to stay put for years without turning to varnish or drying out. It seems to me that high temperature is just an accellated version .... If you lubricate the device regularly, it probably makes no difference. It certainly makes a difference for a TD124 if the oil is unsuitable ..... it will then take hours for it to reach stable speed. All things considered we might not disagree, at least not very much. Regards Peter Larsen |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Turntable Bearing Oil
Karl Uppiano wrote:
"wb" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: "wb" wrote in message ... What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? S. thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen the long threads that never come to any consensus. For high-end applications, you really should only use motor oil that has been "broken in" for 5000 miles in a Rolls Royce from 1956. You can purchase small vials of this oil from your local high-end audio salon if you want, but true high-end aficionados will want to make it themselves in their very own '56 Rolls Royce, sold as a Thorens "turntable accessory" at better high-end shops worldwide. Ah, so that's why the high-end oil is black. No, seriously, surely Thorens and others don't manufacture a special oil for their use. There are only so many types of oil so rather than pay for the label and packaging, not to mention shipping, there must be a generic equivalent lubricant for main bearings. I can see that this thread is going the way of others... nevermind. |
#13
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Turntable Bearing Oil
wb wrote: What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? Mineral oil. Graham |
#14
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Turntable Bearing Oil
wb wrote: Serge Auckland wrote: "wb" wrote in message What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen the long threads that never come to any consensus. What consensus is there to come to ? It's Mobil1 btw. Graham |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Turntable Bearing Oil
wb wrote: Karl Uppiano wrote: "wb" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: "wb" wrote in message ... What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? S. thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen the long threads that never come to any consensus. For high-end applications, you really should only use motor oil that has been "broken in" for 5000 miles in a Rolls Royce from 1956. You can purchase small vials of this oil from your local high-end audio salon if you want, but true high-end aficionados will want to make it themselves in their very own '56 Rolls Royce, sold as a Thorens "turntable accessory" at better high-end shops worldwide. Ah, so that's why the high-end oil is black. No, seriously, surely Thorens and others don't manufacture a special oil for their use. There are only so many types of oil so rather than pay for the label and packaging, not to mention shipping, there must be a generic equivalent lubricant for main bearings. I can see that this thread is going the way of others... nevermind. A black colour might indicate it contains molydenum disulphide. Graham |
#16
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Turntable Bearing Oil
Eeyore wrote:
A black colour might indicate it contains molydenum disulphide. No Graham, it is likely to be carbon black from 1956 Rolls ... don't tell us you overlooked the 1956 Rolls gliding gently through the newsgroup .... O;-) Graham Regards Peter Larsen |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Turntable Bearing Oil
I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing
machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil. Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc. Not really the properties of sump oil at all. Bill. "wb" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: "wb" wrote in message ... What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? S. thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen the long threads that never come to any consensus. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#18
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Turntable Bearing Oil
"Sonic_Hero" wrote in message .. . I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil. Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc. Not really the properties of sump oil at all. Agreed, or maybe the bearing oils used by roller skaters and others? Frankly I can't see paying a high price for oil just because it was deemed suitable 30 years ago, will necessarily provide better performance. IMO if it minimises wear, does not slow the speed, does not increase rumble, and you clean and relube regularly, then there is no more to be gained. I'm willing to bet Thorens did not test every available oil, and measure the differences, even at the time. And I say that as a satisfied Thorens TD125II owner. MrT. |
#19
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Turntable Bearing Oil
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#20
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Turntable Bearing Oil
"Karl Uppiano" wrote in message
news:CgnEh.4239$tR1.867@trnddc05 But seriously, folks... I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of the oil that they use on the slower-turning, higher load shafts. Clock oil is designed to evaporate less over time. Clocks use miniscule amounts of oil compared to a TT bearing. Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high temperature applications, being pumped from a sump. Evaporation is not a primary concern with automotive motor oil. Huh? Motor oil runs at 212 F or more, with a filtered port and then free to the atmosphere, for 120 or more hours with negligable evaporation, and evaporation isn't a concern? Historically, there has been some concern about how the detergents behave, but motor oil has gone through a lot of changes over the years. |
#21
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Turntable Bearing Oil
"Sonic_Hero" wrote in message .. . I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil. Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc. Not really the properties of sump oil at all. Bill. "wb" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: "wb" wrote in message ... What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? S. thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen the long threads that never come to any consensus. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Actually, sewing machines run at high speed and have lightweight parts with small bearing pressures. Turntables operate at low rpm and have very high bearing pressures at the bottom of the turntable shaft, where the thrust ball is situated. (Much the same but inverted for inverted bearings). This is especially so with some of the high-mass turntables. Consequently, I would not want to use a light machine oil as is suitable for sewing machines, but a heavier oil, like engine oil for my turntable bearing. My own turntables both recommend engine oil, but point out that unless the bearing has to be drained for any reason, the oil that is provided from new is sufficient for life. My turntables are both over 20 years old and working fully to spec. http://audiopages.googlepages.com/currentsystem S. |
#22
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Turntable Bearing Oil
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:53:22 -0000, "Serge Auckland"
wrote: "Sonic_Hero" wrote in message . .. I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil. Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc. Not really the properties of sump oil at all. Bill. "wb" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: "wb" wrote in message ... What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? S. thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen the long threads that never come to any consensus. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Actually, sewing machines run at high speed and have lightweight parts with small bearing pressures. Turntables operate at low rpm and have very high bearing pressures at the bottom of the turntable shaft, where the thrust ball is situated. (Much the same but inverted for inverted bearings). This is especially so with some of the high-mass turntables. Consequently, I would not want to use a light machine oil as is suitable for sewing machines, but a heavier oil, like engine oil for my turntable bearing. My own turntables both recommend engine oil, but point out that unless the bearing has to be drained for any reason, the oil that is provided from new is sufficient for life. My turntables are both over 20 years old and working fully to spec. http://audiopages.googlepages.com/currentsystem S. I found an interesting trick when I had a Connoisseur BD1 - this had a single ball bearing for thrust. If I used thick enough oil it would not seep out past the shaft, and I could actually float the turntable on oil, eliminating bearing noise entirely. It would take three or four months for enough oil to escape before it sat back down on the thrust ball. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
#23
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Turntable Bearing Oil
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:53:22 -0000, "Serge Auckland" wrote: "Sonic_Hero" wrote in message ... I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil. Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc. Not really the properties of sump oil at all. Bill. "wb" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: "wb" wrote in message ... What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? In the absence of a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I have used a standard car engine oil. Lets start a thread..which sounds better, Castrol GTX or Duckhams 20-50? S. thanks. I'll 'prolly use Mobile1 but I doubt it matters much. I have seen the long threads that never come to any consensus. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Actually, sewing machines run at high speed and have lightweight parts with small bearing pressures. Turntables operate at low rpm and have very high bearing pressures at the bottom of the turntable shaft, where the thrust ball is situated. (Much the same but inverted for inverted bearings). This is especially so with some of the high-mass turntables. Consequently, I would not want to use a light machine oil as is suitable for sewing machines, but a heavier oil, like engine oil for my turntable bearing. My own turntables both recommend engine oil, but point out that unless the bearing has to be drained for any reason, the oil that is provided from new is sufficient for life. My turntables are both over 20 years old and working fully to spec. http://audiopages.googlepages.com/currentsystem S. I found an interesting trick when I had a Connoisseur BD1 - this had a single ball bearing for thrust. If I used thick enough oil it would not seep out past the shaft, and I could actually float the turntable on oil, eliminating bearing noise entirely. It would take three or four months for enough oil to escape before it sat back down on the thrust ball. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com Nice one! Yes, I remember that with my own BD1. Even with ordinary engine oil, the DB1 would take a long time to settle down. Unfortunately, when the oil *was* finally pushed out, it would make a puddle on the deck. And never mind that the VTA changed as the TT came down, but I for one didn't worry about the niceties of VTA in those days. |
#24
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Turntable Bearing Oil
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#25
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Turntable Bearing Oil
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:17:25 +1300, Sonic_Hero wrote:
I would visit your local sewing machine dealer and pick up some sewing machine oil. I don't think I'd use sump oil. Thinking about it, sewing machine oil would share many of the properties required for turntable use: *non-pressurized system, *relatively cool environment, *long life, *relatively low RPM, etc, etc. Not really the properties of sump oil at all. When I owned a lynn axis, sewing machine oil worked just fine on its bearing. I only had to supply oil once to make up for oil lost during packing the TT over the course of 5 moves. |
#26
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Turntable Bearing Oil
I am reminded of a discussion I had with somone who had just joined Castrol.
This was about 45 years ago. This person was not an engineer but he immediately started telling me about the virtues of Castrol, that it had whale sperm as a 'special ingredient'.. This I could not believe. I asked him to check on it. Might it be oil from a sperm whale? He checked the next day and said I was right. He sheepishly acknowledged it. John "GregS" wrote in message ... In article , wrote: What type of oil do you use on a Thorens turntable? Snake oil. Or, Whale oil. grge |
#27
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Turntable Bearing Oil - final answer
Thanks to everyone for the guidance. I decided to go with good old sae 20 oil, commonly called motor oil. Not to be confused with engine oil. This has no additives. Suprisingly 3 in 1 sells some in small plastic "cans". Not the household oil but motor oil. This is the stuff that was always recommended for the brass bearings and sleeves in ac motors. If I could not have found and economical quanity of this I would have use Mobil1 but prefer the no additives feature. Sewing machine oil, as stated by others, would just not be good at the pressure points. I did contact Joel who apparntly has the secret formula for Thorens oil but still opted for my improvised choice. I can't imagine any problems with it. Maybe someday someone will enlighten us all as to what properties Thorens had in mind for their bearings. I don't forsee having to clean and replenish mine until that day. I've already spent way too much time thinking about this...... |
#28
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Turntable Bearing Oil
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message . .. "Karl Uppiano" wrote in message news:CgnEh.4239$tR1.867@trnddc05 But seriously, folks... I would visit a watchmaker, and ask for a small amount of the oil that they use on the slower-turning, higher load shafts. Clock oil is designed to evaporate less over time. Clocks use miniscule amounts of oil compared to a TT bearing. Automotive oil has detergents and is designed for high temperature applications, being pumped from a sump. Evaporation is not a primary concern with automotive motor oil. Huh? Motor oil runs at 212 F or more, with a filtered port and then free to the atmosphere, for 120 or more hours with negligable evaporation, and evaporation isn't a concern? I said it wasn't a primary concern, compared to, say, viscosity breakdown under high temperature and pressure, or scorching. I'm saying it isn't a factor in the lubrication aspect, because if it evaporates, more is being pumped in continuously. And there is more than enough in the oil pan, which the operator is supposed to check and replenish regularly. None of that happens in clocks and turntables. Historically, there has been some concern about how the detergents behave, but motor oil has gone through a lot of changes over the years. |
#29
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Excellent bearing oil is sold by RADIO SHACK It's in a small pen like tube "Teflon Oil" and is good from minus 45 degrees up to 450 degrees!
The tiny teflon particules fill rough spots in the ground bearing shaft. As always clean well before oiling once a year or so. Mobil One is OK since its synthetic there is very little ordor. triti |
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