I'd try a Royer ribbon and an Re-20.

-R

(Chris Coleman) wrote in message . com...

Here's what I'm looking atin the $1k range):
AEA R48: I've read nothing but great things, haven't heard it yet and

Umm, R84. Shouldn't type whilst sleeping.

I've got pair of 4051's...not bad but for a smooth acoustic gtr that
is tight and round on the low end never harsh on top - find a Neumann
KM54. Schoeps 221's and Geffel M582's might also be a alternative to
look into.
-Dean


(Chris Coleman) wrote in message . com...
Having grown tired of hyped high end, I'm looking for a change.
Primary use for either mic(s) and/or pre will be vocals (both female
and male) and folk-ish acoustic guitar work. I'm looking in general
for "smoother" qualities out of either a mic or preamp,but not
"dull"... here's what I've got:

?RNP: great, detailed, you know the story
?Presonus MP20 w/Jensens: not bad, not great
?Shure KSM44: nice "up front" vocal mic, don't like it much anywhere
else
?pair of AT4041: found to be a bit noisy with the RNP and I'm just not
crazy about them - something about the high end bugs me.
?pair of MXL603: low-cost mike, primarily a talkback mic which gets
random use for a "different" sound.

Here's what I'm looking atin the $1k range):
?AEA R48: I've read nothing but great things, haven't heard it yet and
I don't own any ribbon mics - but will the RNP get too noisy with it?
?Josephson C42MP - similar to KM84 (which would be great...)?
?Used AT4051/53 pair - But will they match well with the RNP (read
about possible DC/DC converter issues here...)
?GRMP1NV - possible first foray into "colored preamp" land?

I'm basically trying to shorten my list before I do some listening
tests on my own, as I know that's the best way to decide on gear. I'm
just asking for a little help from those who might have been in the
same situation and have experience with some of the same gear I've got
and I'm interested in... thanks in advance.

you are not alone in your quest for natural, unhyped mics. the
neumann km84s are indeed a good choice, and may be the least expensive
way to address your concerns. after using a variety of neumanns,
akgs, ATs, royers, gefells, SP, rode, etc, i finally wound up buying a
pair of schoeps cmc64s which have a ruler flat response curve - they
are quite wonderful and would be ideal for you, and are fabulous on
vocals as well as every acoustic instrument i used them on, including
picollo, which is the hardest thing i've ever tried to get a decent
sound out of. the josephson series 4 mic shows a freq rise around
6-8k, similar to km184s (which i always found overly bright for many
acoustic instruments). the AT 405x series all show freq rise around
8k (i never liked the 4041s either). the akg c480s show a very flat
response curve, and lots of tapers like them for live venue recording.
i owned a pair of royer r-121s, and while they are very warm, they
really needed a lot of eq to make them work for me - there's just
something about the condenser sound that i like, i just dont want it
hyped. the josephson series 6 mics, the sennheiser mkh series, the
DPAs and schoeps are the primary choices in this group. the only new
neummans that are reasonably flat are the km131 and the tlm170.
gefell m295s (the ones with the nickel diaphragms) are another
excellent mic for acoustic work.

you are not alone in your quest for natural, unhyped mics. the
neumann
km84s are indeed a good choice, and may be the least expensive way to
address your concerns. after using a variety of neumanns, akgs, ATs,
royers, gefells, SP, rode, etc, i finally wound up buying a pair of
schoeps
cmc64s which have a ruler flat response curve - they are quite
wonderful and
would be ideal for you, and are fabulous on vocals as well as every
acoustic
instrument i used them on, including picollo, which is the hardest
thing
i've ever tried to get a decent sound out of. the josephson series 4
mic
shows a freq rise around 6-8k, similar to km184s (which i always found
overly bright for many acoustic instruments). the AT 405x series all
show
freq rise around 8k (i never liked the 4041s either). the akg c480s
show a
very flat response curve, and lots of tapers like them for live venue
recording. i owned a pair of royer r-121s, and while they are very
warm,
they really needed a lot of eq to make them work for me - there's just
something about the condenser sound that i like, i just dont want it
hyped.
the josephson series 6 mics, the sennheiser mkh series, the DPAs and
schoeps
are the primary choices in this group. the only new neummans that are
reasonably flat are the km131 and the tlm170. gefell m295s (the ones
with
the nickel diaphragms) are another excellent mic for acoustic work. i
highly recommend millennia media hv-3b preamps.

(Chris Coleman) laid this on me:

Having grown tired of hyped high end, I'm looking for a change.
Primary use for either mic(s) and/or pre will be vocals (both
female and male) and folk-ish acoustic guitar work. I'm looking in
general for "smoother" qualities out of either a mic or preamp,but
not "dull"... here's what I've got:

Here's what I'm looking atin the $1k range):
•AEA R48: I've read nothing but great things, haven't heard it yet
and I don't own any ribbon mics - but will the RNP get too noisy
with it?

I think you mean the r84? I assume so, and if so, I did use one in
January, (well, I wasn't running the session, someone else's studio, I
was there as a trained monkey), but that was in a stereo setup, the 84
about 3 feet off the bridge, Schoeps closer up top of the fretboard.
Both mics are top notch, and the track sounded great, but the 84 on
it's own is not the brightest, most agressive sound in the world,
especially in today's "it aint high end if it doesn't clean wax from
your ears" world. I aint saying you won't like it, but it is very
different than the other mics you listed. If this one is one you really
are thinking about, definitely give it a good listen in a mix before
comitting to it.

•Josephson C42MP - similar to KM84 (which would be
great...)?

I really like it, but I'm not sure I'd say it's a exactly a dead
ringer for an 84. What I like about the C42 it does have a little bite
- although a smooth bite, if that makes any sense - in the high mids
that the 84 doesn't have. (the RNC helps with that) Perfect complement
for my rich, if not particularly bright, mid-50s Martin. (I like both
84s and 42s much better than 184s, if that matters). I haven't used a
pair of 42s, but having used both 84s and C42s, and assuming I had a MP
of both lying around (I don't), I'd probably first reach for the 84s if
I was looking for a nice, natural sounding stereo pair to X-Y, but the
C42s would be close behind, and they are certainly easier to find.
Wonderful sounding mic, never abrasive like so many are today. Can't go
wrong with either. The C42s are really the best bet to me in the
current c.$500 SDC pond.

•Used AT4051/53 pair - But will they match well with the RNP (read
about possible DC/DC converter issues here...)

Haven't heard them.

•GRMP1NV - possible first foray into "colored preamp" land?

That is a very nice preamp (no wait, that's another unit! hehe),
but on first glance, for what I think you're shootin' for, it may not
sync up as well with your intended result as others I can think of.
(John Hardy, even a Grace if you want that pristine, clean as a whistle
sound) But that's a hard one to call, and the GR will make anything
that goes through it sound divine, so just listen to it, if you like
it's color, grab it. (if you settled on the r84, it may end up being a
tad dark for ya). If not, try a couple of the others that are discussed
here on a daily basis.
Good luck.

Sean

(Chris Coleman) wrote in message . com...
Having grown tired of hyped high end, I'm looking for a change.
Primary use for either mic(s) and/or pre will be vocals (both female
and male) and folk-ish acoustic guitar work. I'm looking in general
for "smoother" qualities out of either a mic or preamp,but not
"dull"... here's what I've got:

?RNP: great, detailed, you know the story
?Presonus MP20 w/Jensens: not bad, not great
?Shure KSM44: nice "up front" vocal mic, don't like it much anywhere
else
?pair of AT4041: found to be a bit noisy with the RNP and I'm just not
crazy about them - something about the high end bugs me.
?pair of MXL603: low-cost mike, primarily a talkback mic which gets
random use for a "different" sound.

Why not try to hunt up a KM84 and a really good wind screen (for
vocals). The Steadman or Royer (same thing) is good, the Pauly from
http://store.yahoo.com/transaudiodirect/paulsup.html is supposed to be
the cat's pj's.

Why not try to hunt up a KM84 and a really good wind screen (for
vocals). The Steadman or Royer (same thing) is good, the Pauly from
http://store.yahoo.com/transaudiodirect/paulsup.html is supposed to be
the cat's pj's.

I dunno; I've never once found a vocalist who sounded good on a KM-84.
Something in the upper midrange always made them sound like they had sinus
troubles. (Once, I found a guy who sounded good on a KM-85, provided he sang
about 4" to the left of the microphone, so he was off-axis and it didn't point
at his mouth.)

Other folks's mileage does vary, but that's been my experience.

Peace,
Paul

(Chris Coleman) laid this on me:

Having grown tired of hyped high end, I'm looking for a change.
Primary use for either mic(s) and/or pre will be vocals (both
female and male) and folk-ish acoustic guitar work. I'm looking in
general for "smoother" qualities out of either a mic or preamp,but
not "dull"... here's what I've got:

Here's what I'm looking atin the $1k range):
€¢AEA R48: I've read nothing but great things, haven't heard it yet
and I don't own any ribbon mics - but will the RNP get too noisy
with it?




Schoeps CMC6/41. If you are using it on close vocals, the CUT 2 HPF and the
really big windscreen are a necessity.

Fabulous, clean, and very unhyped. Much better than a KM84 in that situation.

I have both and have used both for this. The KM 84 has a wierd distortion in
the high end on voice that isn't ideal
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty