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#1
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Ardour, linux DAW?
So has anybody around here missed with DAW on linux? Specifically has
anybody tried ardour? http://ardour.sourceforge.net/ I'm using WinXP/CubaseSX for "real" work right now, but in my programmer dayjob I use pretty much exclusively linux. I'm thinking of setting up a linux partition on the DAW to mess with in my "spare time" (ha!) just to see how things are coming along and how useful they've gotten. Here, Paul Davis talks about offering prebuilt turnkey linux DAWs from LAS: http://ardour.sourceforge.net/money.html But at the LAS page they only talk about it doing sometime in the future (2001). Further searches turn up nothing concrete, leading me to think no one has actually done this yet. Anyway, I'm just interested in hearing from folks who've already dabbled or messed about with linux audio. I think the linux/free software community would be an especially good place to find some cooler more esoteric plugins and audio processing algorhythms. Things developed in an academic setting or just by hardcore nerds that do strange wonderful things to sound. Any place to look? rossi |
#2
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Ardour, linux DAW?
Byron G Jacquot wrote in message ...
I'm using WinXP/CubaseSX for "real" work right now, but in my programmer dayjob I use pretty much exclusively linux. I'm thinking of setting up a linux partition on the DAW to mess with in my "spare time" (ha!) just to see how things are coming along and how useful they've gotten. I've been in the same position...Windows/Cubase at home, but various "big guns" at work, and I'm also curious about Ardour. The setup seems pretty intensive, and ALSA doesn't support my sound hardware, so I haven't taken the plunge. I have the Layla24. There are now ALSA drivers for it, although it looks like those are still in beta as well. The setup does look pretty extensive. It seems to me the logical next step is for somebody to package a DAW oriented linux distribution or have an easy set of RPMs to run against the most common distributions. Rather than having to track down all the dependencies. One of the downsides of doing anything "cutting edge" in Linux anymore is chasing the damn dependencies from here to kingdom come. Anybody would be happier just installing a linux distro with everything they need already in it. Tom Erbe's new plugins might fit the bill...www.soundhack.com. Yeah that was a good article with him in TapeOp. They're not out yet and will cost $$$, but hopefully there will be some sort of demo/trial so I can check them out. The seem pretty cool. There's also a version of Csound that runs as a plugin...I think it's called Csound VST. I hadn't heard of csound until just now. But what I've seen quickly glancing through: http://www.pipeline.com/~gogins/Silence/CsoundVST.htm http://www.csounds.com/ It looks very cool. I don't know if I have time to learn a new programming language right now but I ever get some "free time" it'd be cool to check that out and play with it. And if you're a real hardcore nerd, look into writing your own VST plugins. The SDK is downloadable from Steinberg, and it's not all that tough to get started. I've thought about it. I think the programming part would be pretty straightforward and easy to me, but I don't know anything about processing audio, so I'd have to learn how to do FFTs and all the math you have to know to do the really cool stuff. I guess delay effects and silly things like flipping polarity or DC offset I could do without learning any new math. Again, "free time". yrs, rossi |
#3
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Ardour, linux DAW?
"Chris Rossi" wrote in message om... So has anybody around here missed with DAW on linux? Specifically has anybody tried ardour? http://ardour.sourceforge.net/ I'm using WinXP/CubaseSX for "real" work right now, but in my programmer dayjob I use pretty much exclusively linux. I'm thinking of setting up a linux partition on the DAW to mess with in my "spare time" (ha!) just to see how things are coming along and how useful they've gotten. Here, Paul Davis talks about offering prebuilt turnkey linux DAWs from LAS: http://ardour.sourceforge.net/money.html But at the LAS page they only talk about it doing sometime in the future (2001). Further searches turn up nothing concrete, leading me to think no one has actually done this yet. Anyway, I'm just interested in hearing from folks who've already dabbled or messed about with linux audio. I think the linux/free software community would be an especially good place to find some cooler more esoteric plugins and audio processing algorhythms. Things developed in an academic setting or just by hardcore nerds that do strange wonderful things to sound. Any place to look? I have Ardour 0.9 beta3 running on my Linux box. It's not stable, but I've done some recordings with it. It feels nearer Pro Tools than cubase sx, as it's got the same kind of regions and selection editing. It has some nice features that are not in cubase sx, the routing is very flexible as you can put effects sends as inserts, and you can use external programs as sends and inserts too. It's not trivial to set up and get working at the moment, I use a distro called Gentoo which makes it a lot easier, but it's not the best distro to start with if you are new to Linux. I also use it as main mixer, for all the other programs that connect to it with JACK. Hydrogen (a drum box) and Jamin both use Jack and can control the transport in Ardour. Once you get Ardour up and running, get the SWH plugins http://www.plugin.org.uk/ This is a pack of plugins for Ardour, or any other program that uses the LADSPA standard. and freqtweak http://freqtweak.sourceforge.net/ for sound mangling. and JAMIN http://jamin.sourceforge.net/ for mastering or general multiband compression. and Sweep http://www.metadecks.org/software/sweep/ for two track editing and scratching audio. If you want more hardcore synthesis, then it's time for modulars... Pure Data, Jmax, C-sound, Supercollider, ALSA modular, SpiralModular, Opensound are all good. Most are available on Windows too. There are loads of other sound manipulation apps and plugins, look here for a good list.. http://linux-sound.org/ rossi |
#5
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Ardour, linux DAW?
"philicorda" wrote in message ...
I have Ardour 0.9 beta3 running on my Linux box. It's not stable, but I've done some recordings with it. It feels nearer Pro Tools than cubase sx, as it's got the same kind of regions and selection editing. It has some nice features that are not in cubase sx, the routing is very flexible as you can put effects sends as inserts, and you can use external programs as sends and inserts too. It's not trivial to set up and get working at the moment, I use a distro called Gentoo which makes it a lot easier, but it's not the best distro to start with if you are new to Linux. I also use it as main mixer, for all the other programs that connect to it with JACK. Hydrogen (a drum box) and Jamin both use Jack and can control the transport in Ardour. Once you get Ardour up and running, get the SWH plugins http://www.plugin.org.uk/ This is a pack of plugins for Ardour, or any other program that uses the LADSPA standard. and freqtweak http://freqtweak.sourceforge.net/ for sound mangling. and JAMIN http://jamin.sourceforge.net/ for mastering or general multiband compression. and Sweep http://www.metadecks.org/software/sweep/ for two track editing and scratching audio. If you want more hardcore synthesis, then it's time for modulars... Pure Data, Jmax, C-sound, Supercollider, ALSA modular, SpiralModular, Opensound are all good. Most are available on Windows too. There are loads of other sound manipulation apps and plugins, look here for a good list.. http://linux-sound.org/ I actually was considering going the gentoo route. Thanks for the links. rossi |
#6
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Ardour, linux DAW?
On 2003-09-03, Chris Rossi wrote:
I actually was considering going the gentoo route. Thanks for the links. Let me advise against this. Now, you say you have a programmer day job, so I assume you're Un*x competent. But I think you'd be much better off going with a distribution that has packages for the audio apps you're interested in - it will save hundreds of hours of tracking down source, patching, and compiling. If you have the technical expertise and you're hard-headed (like me! I should take my own advice...) it'll work a-ok compiling everything yourself. But PlanetCCRMA will save you so much time. BTW, Ardour is awesome. I've used Cakewalk Pro Audio and Soundforge fairly extensively working on one CD, and a touch of Pro Tools, and Ardour handily beats them all. It's not without its rough edges, but still very very nice. -- Ross Vandegrift A Pope has a Water Cannon. It is a Water Cannon. He fires Holy-Water from it. It is a Holy-Water Cannon. He Blesses it. It is a Holy Holy-Water Cannon. He Blesses the Hell out of it. It is a Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon. He has it pierced. It is a Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon. He makes it official. It is a Canon Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon. Batman and Robin arrive. He shoots them. |
#7
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Ardour, linux DAW?
Ross Vandegrift wrote:
I've used Cakewalk Pro Audio and Soundforge fairly extensively working on one CD, and a touch of Pro Tools, and Ardour handily beats them all. It's not without its rough edges, but still very very nice. Ross, What aspects of Ardour do you prefer over those other apps? -- hank alrich * secret mountain audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement "If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose" |
#8
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Ardour, linux DAW?
In article , Chris Rossi wrote:
So has anybody around here missed with DAW on linux? Specifically has anybody tried ardour? Yes. It's still far from perfect, but it does the job (for me at least). This is now what I use for tracking. Anyway, I'm just interested in hearing from folks who've already dabbled or messed about with linux audio. I do all my audio hacking in Linux, simply because that's what I run. But YMMV; I use mostly command line, non-interactive software ŕ la Netpbm. I think the linux/free software community would be an especially good place to find some cooler more esoteric plugins and audio processing algorhythms. Things developed in an academic setting or just by hardcore nerds that do strange wonderful things to sound. Any place to look? http://www.ladspa.org/ (the theory) http://plugin.org.uk/ (the practice) http://www.linuxsound.at/ (everything) -- André Majorel URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/ If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. -- Noam Chomsky |
#9
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Ardour, linux DAW?
On 2003-09-04, LeBaron & Alrich wrote:
Ross, What aspects of Ardour do you prefer over those other apps? While it's not exactly intuitive to use (and what serious audio software isn't?), it's very easy to learn, and very efficient - more so than Cakewalk or Soundforge (I don't have enough Pro Tools experience to really judge there). It's strange - I never really felt like I "understood" Calkwalk or Soundforge. But Ardour mostly works exactly the way I think. The architechture of the JACK + Ardour + LADSPA system is waaaay more flexible than any of the Big Name DAW software vendors want you to believe is possible. Ardour isn't attached to any commercial hardware or software, so there's no incentive to not make it do everything it can. Everyone else is always ready to sell you just a little more capability - Ardour is the whole deal. My workstation is an aging AMD Athlon from about four years ago. It handily records four tracks of 24/96 without breaking a sweat, and I stop there because it's all my Delta44 supports. My biggest Ardour project is currently at about 10 tracks, all being mixed and having effects applied in software. And of course there are people doing way more serious stuff than I am - check out the ardour-users or ardour-dev mailing lists from the ardour.sf.net homepage for more details. Software real-time plugins are great - the LADSPA plugin architechture is really easy to work with, so lots of people write lots of cool effects. Perhaps the diversity is a bit low here still, but new ones are written all the time. And you can't beat the freedom - ardour is 100% free softwa it's license guarantees that I can use it for whatever I want. It's source is available to be improved and fixed. And it's freely redistributable, so all of this software costs me zero dollars. Free upgrades too! I can see how a serious studio might not be ready to make the jump from commercials DAW software to GNU/Linux based Ardour systems just yet, but I doubt it'll be long. I can't see how anyone else would ever want to pay a penny to have to put up with Windows or MacOS ever again ::-). -- Ross Vandegrift A Pope has a Water Cannon. It is a Water Cannon. He fires Holy-Water from it. It is a Holy-Water Cannon. He Blesses it. It is a Holy Holy-Water Cannon. He Blesses the Hell out of it. It is a Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon. He has it pierced. It is a Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon. He makes it official. It is a Canon Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon. Batman and Robin arrive. He shoots them. |
#10
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Ardour, linux DAW?
In article Bill Thompson
writes: Chris Rossi wrote: It seems to me the logical next step is for somebody to package a DAW oriented linux distribution or have an easy set of RPMs to run against the most common distributions. Rather than having to track down all the dependencies. Check out Planet CCRMA: http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/planet.../packages.html They have what appears to be a pretty complete collection. I haven't the time or machine to play around with it in quite a while, but the first time I played with it I was really impressed with the ease of installation.(Caveat - my day job presently is as a unix developer) Bill Since this environment is intended for our students and composers to install on their own at home, it is pretty well explained and seems to work with a minimum of difficulty. So far, Ardour is looking very promising. -Jay -- x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x |
#11
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Ardour, linux DAW?
Bill Thompson wrote in message ...
Chris Rossi wrote: It seems to me the logical next step is for somebody to package a DAW oriented linux distribution or have an easy set of RPMs to run against the most common distributions. Rather than having to track down all the dependencies. Check out Planet CCRMA: http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/planet.../packages.html They have what appears to be a pretty complete collection. I haven't the time or machine to play around with it in quite a while, but the first time I played with it I was really impressed with the ease of installation.(Caveat - my day job presently is as a unix developer) Excellent. That's exactly what I was looking for. thanks, rossi |
#12
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Ardour, linux DAW?
Ardour is most definitely the hardest piece of software to install on
Linux I've seen so far. I've counted up to 50(!) different package requirements if you want to run it on full force and while I have finally managed to get it installed the LADSPA plug-ins aren't working yet (they seem to work on other apps though). And also, it is nowhere near as powerful as the Win apps - reportedly a 800MHz machine is enough for only four or five track recordings! You can do the same with a P133 quite easily. But let's just wait. |
#13
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Ardour, linux DAW?
On 2003-09-09, ... wrote:
And also, it is nowhere near as powerful as the Win apps - reportedly a 800MHz machine is enough for only four or five track recordings! You can do the same with a P133 quite easily. It depends on a lot of things - how much you're doing with the system for one, and how fast your disks are. I for one can say my 900MHz Athlon has no problems with a ten track + four bus project. It's currently using maybe a 8-10 LADSPA plugins. Works great. -- Ross Vandegrift A Pope has a Water Cannon. It is a Water Cannon. He fires Holy-Water from it. It is a Holy-Water Cannon. He Blesses it. It is a Holy Holy-Water Cannon. He Blesses the Hell out of it. It is a Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon. He has it pierced. It is a Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon. He makes it official. It is a Canon Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon. Batman and Robin arrive. He shoots them. |
#14
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Ardour, linux DAW?
Actually... I FINALLY managed to get LADPSA working in Ardour this
morning - bizarrely the RPMs I was using required Audacity to be installed as well! Bad building perhaps, but at least it's now apparently functional. I'll be looking forward to start recording with it next weekend. Well, of course experimenting with silly things at first - let's see if I can also handle a full session with some band in the future too. I've tried recording about eight dummy tracks on an Athlon XP 1600+ and the CPU meter didn't rank too high - about 18%. I think it'll be just okay - unless the program proves unable to handle a lot of edited clips. We'll see. By the way, how would you rate the quality of the most essential plug-ins in the Steve Harris SWH-collection and in other various packs? Compression, EQ and such? How do they compare against, say, the mda plug-in pack for VST? And further, if anybody has experimented with the impulse convolver (or the one included in Rezound), have the results been anything comparable to the standards programs like Acoustic Mirror have set? That would be a really cost-efficient way to produce more professional quality reverberation for example, and even amp and tape simulation on Linux without having to wait for another decade for someone to come up with fully professional grade plug-ins. Don't get me wrong, freeverb is fine for tracking. |
#15
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Ardour, linux DAW?
Actually I fiddled for a moment with the convolver in Rezound, and
judging from the included one single impulse it seemed quite good at least initially. The controls were quite similiar to Acoustics Mirror. There weren't decisive instructions included with the RPM on how to create your own impulses, altough I think the free .sfi ones you can get from the net can be converted into .wav just by renaming the file. I'll dabble with it more when I have the time. I guess I'll have to try SIR on a Windows platform too. Too bad I haven't got a Windows platform anymore! :-) I know about the Wine implementation, but couldn't get the program working yet. I think it supports only GUI-implemented plugs. But if that thing proves to be workable, and it can be get running effortlessly (because at the moment it's apparently not just a matter of of inserting the appropriate plug-in to the mixer window). |
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