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  #1   Report Post  
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JackA JackA is offline
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Default Digital Audio Restoration

Unofficially released.
Harry Belafonte - Mama Look A Boo Boo, (title varies) 1957.
Audio restoration...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/bubu-s.mp3

Jack
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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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On 19-10-2015 03:13, JackA wrote:
Unofficially released.
Harry Belafonte - Mama Look A Boo Boo, (title varies) 1957.
Audio restoration...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/bubu-s.mp3

Jack


Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen
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On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 12:41:31 PM UTC-4, Peter Larsen wrote:
On 19-10-2015 03:13, JackA wrote:
Unofficially released.
Harry Belafonte - Mama Look A Boo Boo, (title varies) 1957.
Audio restoration...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/bubu-s.mp3

Jack


Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen


Is that a F- grade???
Like the DC offset score; always check that! :-)

Thanks, Peter!!!

Jack
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"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
news:56251d35$0$23209
Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen


Four lines, at least, of meaningless nonsense. "RMS Power" =
meaningless nonsense. The "DC Offset" figure is probably as
meaningless as the RMS Power gibberish.

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JackA JackA is offline
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On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 5:57:55 PM UTC-4, None wrote:
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
news:56251d35$0$23209
Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen


Four lines, at least, of meaningless nonsense. "RMS Power" =
meaningless nonsense. The "DC Offset" figure is probably as
meaningless as the RMS Power gibberish.


The DC offset, hard to believe. Saving and opening MP3s always has some DC offset (at least for me).

Thanks.

Jack



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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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None wrote:
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
news:56251d35$0$23209
Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen


Four lines, at least, of meaningless nonsense. "RMS Power" =
meaningless nonsense. The "DC Offset" figure is probably as
meaningless as the RMS Power gibberish.


The "RMS power" is referenced to 0dBFS. It's not all that useful
but it certainly isn't meaningless.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
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None wrote: "Four lines, at least, of meaningless nonsense. "RMS Power" =
meaningless nonsense. The "DC Offset" figure is probably as
meaningless as the RMS Power gibberish. "


Meaningless to someone who doesn't have a ****ING
CLUE as to what those terms mean, dumbass GW
BUSH-face. Go to another elementary school and
read "My Pet Goat" to a room full of 1-4th graders
or bomb another country that had nothing to do with 9/11!
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thekma @ goatboycom wrote in message
...
None wrote: "Four lines, at least, of meaningless nonsense. "RMS
Power" =
meaningless nonsense. The "DC Offset" figure is probably as
meaningless as the RMS Power gibberish. "


Meaningless to someone who doesn't have a ****ING
CLUE as to what those terms mean, dumbass GW
BUSH-face. Go to another elementary school and
read "My Pet Goat" to a room full of 1-4th graders
or bomb another country that had nothing to do with 9/11!


Which newsgroup do you imagine you're posting to?

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None wrote: " thekma @ goatboycom wrote in message
...
- show quoted text -
Which newsgroup do you imagine you're posting to? "

rec.audio.pro, ****-FOR-BRAINS.

Enjoying your own medicine?
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thekma @gmail.com wrote in message
...
None wrote: " thekma @ goatboycom wrote in message
...
- show quoted text -
Which newsgroup do you imagine you're posting to? "

rec.audio.pro, ****-FOR-BRAINS.

Enjoying your own medicine?


Is that my medicine, li'l buddy? So what was all that side-step about
W. and 9/11 and some suitcase in your face with a goat? Is that just
stream-of-semiconsciousness beat poetry? Pretty unfocused, but maybe
that was the intent. You're probably having yet another bad day.



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On 19-10-2015 22:57, None wrote:

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message news:56251d35$0$23209
Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen


Four lines, at least, of meaningless nonsense. "RMS Power" = meaningless
nonsense. The "DC Offset" figure is probably as meaningless as the RMS
Power gibberish.


You actually only wrote three lines of meaningless nonsense. A crest
factor of 10 dB is not a sign of quality.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen


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On 19-10-2015 18:13, JackA wrote:
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 12:41:31 PM UTC-4, Peter Larsen wrote:
On 19-10-2015 03:13, JackA wrote:
Unofficially released.
Harry Belafonte - Mama Look A Boo Boo, (title varies) 1957.
Audio restoration...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/bubu-s.mp3

Jack


Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen


Is that a F- grade???


Yes, F-.

Expected Crest factor for content considering that it is vox intensive
is 25 dB, not 10 dB.

Also why is it clipped? - mp3 decoding can cause overruns but as long
time participant here you know that. And where is the record noise?

Like the DC offset score; always check that! :-)


That is also bad. There is a lot of vox. Vox is naturally asymmetric. It
should probably be slightly positive.

- Peter Larsen

Thanks, Peter!!!

Jack


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On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 11:08:42 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
On 20/10/2015 2:08 p.m., t wrote:
None wrote: " wrote in message
news:f8d307a8-d36a-46db-9ead-90alegroups.com...
- show quoted text -
Which newsgroup do you imagine you're posting to? "

rec.audio.pro, ****-FOR-BRAINS.

Enjoying your own medicine?



Stop. Sit down . Take some deep breaths, then take your medication.

geoff



Geoff: Just WHO are YOU telling to take medication?!

That N-putz deserves back what he dishes out! Like I
said to others he You don't know me from a hole in
the wall - so leave the medical advice to those in
that field.
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thekma @gmail.com wrote in message
...
Geoff: Just WHO are YOU telling to take medication?!

That N-putz deserves back what he dishes out! Like I
said to others he You don't know me from a hole in
the wall - so leave the medical advice to those in
that field.


You're doing a heck of a job, Crisko. A heck of a job ignoring me.
Hehe.

And Goeff's right, you should get back on your meds. Blinding rage
isn't good for your tiny little flea-brain. You may be pumping up your
chest, feeling unusually manly, for having supposedly turned the
tables on me. But you're still in a clueless gibbering rage, and I'm
laughing at you. So that much hasn't changed!




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RMS Voltage combined with RMS Current = Average power.

120 V RMS and 1 Amp RMS in phase yields 120 Watts average power.

There is no mathematical meaning to RMS power.

RMS power is often mis-used to mean average power.

Mark


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wrote:
RMS Voltage combined with RMS Current = Average power.

120 V RMS and 1 Amp RMS in phase yields 120 Watts average power.

There is no mathematical meaning to RMS power.

RMS power is often mis-used to mean average power.


This is true but we have given up fighting that battle 40 years ago.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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JackA JackA is offline
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On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 3:48:55 AM UTC-4, Peter Larsen wrote:
On 19-10-2015 18:13, JackA wrote:
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 12:41:31 PM UTC-4, Peter Larsen wrote:
On 19-10-2015 03:13, JackA wrote:
Unofficially released.
Harry Belafonte - Mama Look A Boo Boo, (title varies) 1957.
Audio restoration...
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abpsp/images/bubu-s.mp3

Jack


Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen


Is that a F- grade???


Yes, F-.


You people are cruel!! :-)

Consider what I had to work with. It's from a bootleg CD, first time stereo, never published by RCA (Victor)/BMG etc. (this is Take #6, tape condition unknown). It started out decent, but the the fidelity and volume went south, until the ending. So, I had to trim (or as you call it, clipped) to TRY to keep constant volume and enhance key frequencies. I feel it turned out pretty good.

Take this fine song from the MCA boxset. Lynyrd Skynyrd - Saturday Night Special. Just sounded washed out, lead vocals too low - that was common with many early (re)mastered CDs. I enhanced some frequencies (caused spikes), then watched the VU meters. Sure, I trimmed (clipped) some, but it didn't harm the recording!!...

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/abps...satspecial.mp3

Thanks.

Jack


Expected Crest factor for content considering that it is vox intensive
is 25 dB, not 10 dB.

Also why is it clipped? - mp3 decoding can cause overruns but as long
time participant here you know that. And where is the record noise?

Like the DC offset score; always check that! :-)


That is also bad. There is a lot of vox. Vox is naturally asymmetric. It
should probably be slightly positive.

- Peter Larsen

Thanks, Peter!!!

Jack


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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
RMS power is often mis-used to mean average power.

This is true but we have given up fighting that battle 40 years ago.
--scott


I don't know whether that's a "royal we" or you have a mouse in your
pocket, but in my day job, I'm not very tolerant of sloppy terminology
or sloppy dimensional analysis. It very frequently makes a difference.
RMS power, "cycles" or "centigrade" as units, "phase" for polarity,
and the like, don't appear on any document to which I contribute or
provide approval.

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None wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
RMS power is often mis-used to mean average power.

This is true but we have given up fighting that battle 40 years ago.


I don't know whether that's a "royal we" or you have a mouse in your
pocket, but in my day job, I'm not very tolerant of sloppy terminology
or sloppy dimensional analysis. It very frequently makes a difference.
RMS power, "cycles" or "centigrade" as units, "phase" for polarity,
and the like, don't appear on any document to which I contribute or
provide approval.


I'm too busy yelling at people for using "wire" to mean cable, using
"comping" to mean compression, calling plug-in power "phantom" or speaking
of "filming" when they are shooting video to worry about "RMS Power."
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 3:22:14 PM UTC-4, Scott Dorsey wrote:
None wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
RMS power is often mis-used to mean average power.
This is true but we have given up fighting that battle 40 years ago.


I don't know whether that's a "royal we" or you have a mouse in your
pocket, but in my day job, I'm not very tolerant of sloppy terminology
or sloppy dimensional analysis. It very frequently makes a difference.
RMS power, "cycles" or "centigrade" as units, "phase" for polarity,
and the like, don't appear on any document to which I contribute or
provide approval.


I'm too busy yelling at people for using "wire" to mean cable, using
"comping" to mean compression, calling plug-in power "phantom" or speaking
of "filming" when they are shooting video to worry about "RMS Power."
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


I thought it was the medication G doctor who was only in error, but even you use K when it should be k! Ok!

Jack
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Les Cargill[_4_] Les Cargill[_4_] is offline
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None wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
RMS power is often mis-used to mean average power.

This is true but we have given up fighting that battle 40 years ago.
--scott


I don't know whether that's a "royal we" or you have a mouse in your
pocket, but in my day job, I'm not very tolerant of sloppy terminology
or sloppy dimensional analysis. It very frequently makes a difference.
RMS power, "cycles" or "centigrade" as units, "phase" for polarity, and
the like, don't appear on any document to which I contribute or provide
approval.


It's generally known that the standard test for power in
amplifiers is to run a 1kHz sine wave thru the DUT and
increase the gain until some distortion limit is reached.

This provides a reasonably standard means of classifying
the power capability of the amplifier.

When someone calls an amp "100W RMS", that's what
that means. All thing being equal,it's 3dB more
power than a 50W RMS amp.

If people use that to mean something else then
that's too bad. But the term is one which is not only
meaningful but useful as well.

--
Les Cargill


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JackA JackA is offline
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On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 6:54:39 PM UTC-4, Les Cargill wrote:
None wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
RMS power is often mis-used to mean average power.
This is true but we have given up fighting that battle 40 years ago.
--scott


I don't know whether that's a "royal we" or you have a mouse in your
pocket, but in my day job, I'm not very tolerant of sloppy terminology
or sloppy dimensional analysis. It very frequently makes a difference.
RMS power, "cycles" or "centigrade" as units, "phase" for polarity, and
the like, don't appear on any document to which I contribute or provide
approval.


It's generally known that the standard test for power in
amplifiers is to run a 1kHz sine wave thru the DUT and
increase the gain until some distortion limit is reached.

This provides a reasonably standard means of classifying
the power capability of the amplifier.

When someone calls an amp "100W RMS", that's what
that means. All thing being equal,it's 3dB more
power than a 50W RMS amp.

If people use that to mean something else then
that's too bad. But the term is one which is not only
meaningful but useful as well.


Remember in the 70's manufacturers used Peak values to help sell power, not RMS. Not sure what the Institute for High Fidelity (IHF) came up with, that was another figure!!

Jack


--
Les Cargill


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On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 6:38:40 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 11:08:42 PM UTC-4, geoff wrote:
On 20/10/2015 2:08 p.m., t wrote:
None wrote: " wrote in message
news:f8d307a8-d36a-46db-9ead-90alegroups.com...
- show quoted text -
Which newsgroup do you imagine you're posting to? "

rec.audio.pro, ****-FOR-BRAINS.

Enjoying your own medicine?



Stop. Sit down . Take some deep breaths, then take your medication.

geoff



Geoff: Just WHO are YOU



Great Who song!!!

Jack

telling to take medication?!

That N-putz deserves back what he dishes out! Like I
said to others he You don't know me from a hole in
the wall - so leave the medical advice to those in
that field.


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понедељак, 19. октобар 2015. 23.57.55 UTC+2, None је напиÑао/ла:
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
news:56251d35$0$23209
Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen


Four lines, at least, of meaningless nonsense. "RMS Power" =
meaningless nonsense. The "DC Offset" figure is probably as
meaningless as the RMS Power gibberish.


I think we should ease a bit on this. I also think (RMS) POWER in this context
is meaaningless, but I also think most people arround here have good idea about what it's supposed to mean here.
Why did makers of that software choose to use word "power" at "powerless"
place, well ...


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On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 7:49:54 PM UTC-4, Luxey wrote:
понедељак, 19. октобар 2015. 23.57.55 UTC+2, None је напиÑао/ла:
"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
news:56251d35$0$23209
Left Right
Min Sample Value: -32768 -32768
Max Sample Value: 32767 32767
Peak Amplitude: 0 dB 0 dB
Possibly Clipped: 12 4
DC Offset: 0 0
Minimum RMS Power: -81.67 dB -83.41 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -4.76 dB -4.3 dB
Average RMS Power: -9.83 dB -10.02 dB
Total RMS Power: -9.33 dB -9.54 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits

Using RMS Window of 300 ms

- Peter Larsen


Four lines, at least, of meaningless nonsense. "RMS Power" =
meaningless nonsense. The "DC Offset" figure is probably as
meaningless as the RMS Power gibberish.


I think we should ease a bit on this. I also think (RMS) POWER in this context
is meaaningless, but I also think most people arround here have good idea about what it's supposed to mean here.
Why did makers of that software choose to use word "power" at "powerless"
place, well ...


I'm guessing Rap music has much more RMS than a violin solo.

Jack
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geoff geoff is offline
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On 21/10/2015 12:08 p.m., JackA wrote:
Remember in the 70's manufacturers used Peak values to help sell power, not RMS. Not sure what the Institute for High Fidelity (IHF) came up with, that was another figure!!

Jack



"In the 70s" ?!!! How about SINCE the 70s ? But now not just 'peak' -
all sorts including PMPO and totally imaginary unrealistically
meaningless large numbers.

geoff
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[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
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I can't believe people are calling RMS specs "meaningless" -
this really IS the 21st century! 😟
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Les Cargill wrote:
None wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
RMS power is often mis-used to mean average power.
This is true but we have given up fighting that battle 40 years ago.


I don't know whether that's a "royal we" or you have a mouse in your
pocket, but in my day job, I'm not very tolerant of sloppy terminology
or sloppy dimensional analysis. It very frequently makes a difference.
RMS power, "cycles" or "centigrade" as units, "phase" for polarity, and
the like, don't appear on any document to which I contribute or provide
approval.


It's generally known that the standard test for power in
amplifiers is to run a 1kHz sine wave thru the DUT and
increase the gain until some distortion limit is reached.

This provides a reasonably standard means of classifying
the power capability of the amplifier.

When someone calls an amp "100W RMS", that's what
that means. All thing being equal,it's 3dB more
power than a 50W RMS amp.


It's true, though, that this _is_ a total misuse of the term. You hear
it all the time, and it's written into the FTC standard, but it _is_
incorrect.

I've given up fighting it, but that doesn't make it right.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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John Williamson John Williamson is offline
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On 21/10/2015 02:35, geoff wrote:
On 21/10/2015 12:08 p.m., JackA wrote:
Remember in the 70's manufacturers used Peak values to help sell
power, not RMS. Not sure what the Institute for High Fidelity (IHF)
came up with, that was another figure!!

Jack



"In the 70s" ?!!! How about SINCE the 70s ? But now not just 'peak' -
all sorts including PMPO and totally imaginary unrealistically
meaningless large numbers.

Ah, yes, I remember PMPO. Over 100 watts from a few D cell batteries in
a ghetto blaster...


--
Tciao for Now!

John.


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thekma @gmail.com wrote in message
...
I can't believe people are calling RMS specs "meaningless" -
this really IS the 21st century! 😟


And you're a 21st century dumb**** if you think "RMS power" exists.
The reason involves mathematics, so it's beyond your comprehension.

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On 21/10/2015 6:26 PM, None wrote:
thekma @gmail.com wrote in message
...
I can't believe people are calling RMS specs "meaningless" -
this really IS the 21st century! 😟


And you're a 21st century dumb**** if you think "RMS power" exists. The
reason involves mathematics, so it's beyond your comprehension.


Well to be fair, the incorrect terminology is actually written into the
standards for amplifiers etc. as most of us know. :-(
It's just not worth arguing this one.

Trevor.

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Trevor wrote: "- show quoted text -
Well to be fair, the incorrect terminology is actually written into the
standards for amplifiers etc. as most of us know. :-(
It's just not worth arguing this one.

Trevor. "


The nice thing for you(or Scott, et al) to do is explain WHY
RMS isn't relevant. I know that RMS doesn't take into
consideration the frequency range of what's being measured,
but that's as much as I know so far.
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On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 9:46:02 AM UTC+2, Trevor wrote:
On 21/10/2015 6:26 PM, None wrote:
thekma @gmail.com wrote in message
...
I can't believe people are calling RMS specs "meaningless" -
this really IS the 21st century! 😟


And you're a 21st century dumb**** if you think "RMS power" exists. The
reason involves mathematics, so it's beyond your comprehension.


Well to be fair, the incorrect terminology is actually written into the
standards for amplifiers etc. as most of us know. :-(
It's just not worth arguing this one.

Trevor.


IMO ...

"RMS Power" from above measurement, taken from some software, as presented
by Peter, has nothing to do with Amplifier ratings.

In Amp ratings the term is related to power, but power is not RMS, although
some RMS values were used in calculation.

In above measurement, value is RMS of something, but has nothing to do with power.
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On 21/10/2015 11:36, wrote:
Trevor wrote: "- show quoted text -
Well to be fair, the incorrect terminology is actually written into the
standards for amplifiers etc. as most of us know. :-(
It's just not worth arguing this one.

Trevor. "


The nice thing for you(or Scott, et al) to do is explain WHY
RMS isn't relevant. I know that RMS doesn't take into
consideration the frequency range of what's being measured,
but that's as much as I know so far.

The simplest way to think about what RMS power represents is to imagine
the load on the power supplying element as a purely resistive heating
element. The RMS power is the amount of heat that the element emits when
the stated power is passing through it. For many applications in small
signal work, the load impedance is assumed to be 600 ohms, dating from
the days of early telecommunications work, when it was taken to be the
measured AC impedance of a long telephone wire using the earth (ground)
as the current return path. This gives a power dissipated in the load of
1 milliwatt at a voltage level of 0.775 volts, and is used as a common
reference point ( 0dB) in most audio hardware design.

In audio terms, things like speakers are not a resistive load, so the
current and voltage are out of phase and the impedance varies with
frequency, which alters the current for any particular voltage as it
changes. This means that the RMS power measurement mentioned in this
thread is only actually relevant for a pure sine wave at a given
frequency, which is usually taken to be 1kHz.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.


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wrote:
Trevor wrote: "- show quoted text -
Well to be fair, the incorrect terminology is actually written into the
standards for amplifiers etc. as most of us know. :-(
It's just not worth arguing this one.

Trevor. "


The nice thing for you(or Scott, et al) to do is explain WHY
RMS isn't relevant. I know that RMS doesn't take into
consideration the frequency range of what's being measured,
but that's as much as I know so far.


None already did that. What is being measured is average power. If you
take RMS current and RMS voltage and multiply, you get average power, not
RMS power. People call it "RMS power" but it isn't.

The math is not worth posting here but I believe it is due to Oliver Heaviside.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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What is being measured is average power.
If you
take RMS current and RMS voltage and multiply, you get average power, not
RMS power. People call it "RMS power" but it isn't.



+1 exactly correct
Mark
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On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 11:23:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
What is being measured is average power.
If you
take RMS current and RMS voltage and multiply, you get average power, not
RMS power. People call it "RMS power" but it isn't.



+1 exactly correct
Mark


I say it's "apparent" power, since it is AC, reactive.

Jack
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On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 12:09:17 PM UTC-4, JackA wrote:
On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 11:23:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
What is being measured is average power.
If you
take RMS current and RMS voltage and multiply, you get average power, not
RMS power. People call it "RMS power" but it isn't.



+1 exactly correct
Mark


I say it's "apparent" power, since it is AC, reactive.

Jack


If the phase angle between the voltage and current is 0 deg, (resistive load) then it is REAL power measured in Watts.

It the phase angle is 90 deg, then it is apparent power measured in VARs.

In between is a combination of both.

Mark

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