Here is a letter from a Def Tech rep in response to an inquiry about
bi-wiring:
"Michael,

Thanks for your recent email to Definitive Technology. There's certainly
some valid points to the theory of double wiring a loudspeaker, however,
our
loudspeakers were designed to sound more accurate or
"true-to-the-source"
when bi-wired.

Bi-wiring specifically allows your main amplifier to "see" the
electromagnetic feedback produced by your loudspeakers at the component
level. Meaning, as all drivers and tweeters vibrate (and physically
move),
they want to "stay in motion". It's your amplifier's job to dampen or
control this movement so they don't move or vibrate after they've
produced
the sounds they were supposed to. Your amplifier has a specification
called
damping factor, which measures the amplifiers ability to control the
unwanted movement of your loudspeakers. (The higher the rating, the
better.)

When using a single set of speaker wires (or double-wiring your
loudspeakers), your amplifier receives electromagnetic feedback from all
the
speaker components "together". You amplifier then has to "decipher"
which
electromagnetic signals are being produced by the midranges and which
electromagnetic signals are being produced by the tweeters. Your
amplifier
then tries to dampen or control this unwanted movement. If your
amplifier
receives these electromagnetic signals from the midrange and tweeters
separately, it can do a better job of dampening or controlling their
unwanted movement.

Assuming the engineers who designed any given loudspeaker listened to
the
speakers bi-wired when they designed them, I'd argue that bi-wiring a
set of
loudspeakers would allow you to hear a speaker as it was designed to be
heard. If, on the other hand, the engineers who designed a loudspeaker
listened to them (and designed them to sound natural) with a single set
of
speaker wires, if you bi-wired them, you would hear "something
different"
than what they were designed to sound like. The engineer may have wanted
a
little bit of "unwanted" movement from the tweeters and drivers to make
them
sound "natural". (I hope this makes a little bit of sense.)

I assure you, all of our loudspeakers that are bi-wirable were listened
to
and designed to sound "more-true-to-the-source" when they are bi-wired.

Thanks,
Chet Pelkowski
Definitive Technology"

Are the Def Tech engineers actually doing what this fellow suggests or
is this just a PR guy feeding the myth machine and telling the customers
what they want to hear?

George Deliz

In , on 11/19/03
at 06:54 AM, George Deliz said:

Here is a letter from a Def Tech rep in response to an inquiry about
bi-wiring:
"Michael,

Thanks for your recent email to Definitive Technology. There's
certainly some valid points to the theory of double wiring a
loudspeaker, however, our loudspeakers were designed to sound
more accurate or "true-to-the-source" when bi-wired.

Bi-wiring specifically allows your main amplifier to "see" the
electromagnetic feedback produced by your loudspeakers at the
component level. Meaning, as all drivers and tweeters vibrate (and
physically move), they want to "stay in motion". It's your amplifier's
job to dampen or control this movement so they don't move or vibrate
after they've produced the sounds they were supposed to. Your amplifier
has a specification called damping factor, which measures the amplifiers
ability to control the unwanted movement of your loudspeakers. (The
higher the rating, the better.)

When using a single set of speaker wires (or double-wiring your
loudspeakers), your amplifier receives electromagnetic feedback from
all the speaker components "together". You amplifier then has to
"decipher" which electromagnetic signals are being produced by the
midranges and which electromagnetic signals are being produced by the
tweeters. Your amplifier then tries to dampen or control this unwanted
movement. If your amplifier receives these electromagnetic signals from
the midrange and tweeters separately, it can do a better job of dampening
or controlling their unwanted movement.

I'm sure that if Dick Pierce sees the reference to "damping factor" he
will give his standard analysis.

I'll point out that either from a junction inside the amplifier chassis
or at the external speaker terminals, there is only one path between
the amplifier inside and the speakers. Joining the lows and highs
inside the speaker box or at the amplifier's speaker terminals does not
change the fact that what the internal amplifier actually "sees" is
always a mixture of lows and highs. (Even if there are "A" and "B"
speaker terminals on the outside, there is still a junction inside.)

Chet's discussion might hold slightly more water if separate low and
high amplifiers were used.

Assuming the engineers who designed any given loudspeaker listened to
the speakers bi-wired when they designed them, I'd argue that bi-wiring
a set of loudspeakers would allow you to hear a speaker as it was designed
to be heard. If, on the other hand, the engineers who designed a
loudspeaker listened to them (and designed them to sound natural) with
a single set of speaker wires, if you bi-wired them, you would hear
"something different" than what they were designed to sound like. The
engineer may have wanted a little bit of "unwanted" movement from the
tweeters and drivers to make them sound "natural". (I hope this makes a
little bit of sense.)

I assure you, all of our loudspeakers that are bi-wirable were
listened to and designed to sound "more-true-to-the-source" when
they are bi-wired.

Thanks,
Chet Pelkowski
Definitive Technology"

Are the Def Tech engineers actually doing what this fellow suggests or
is this just a PR guy feeding the myth machine and telling the
customers what they want to hear?

George Deliz

I don't want to blow their cover, but in first person discussions with
a world class speaker company, they were not very enthusiastic about
bi-wiring, but they do include the extra terminals because it is an
inexpensive way to follow market momentum.

If one is worried about speaker wire, why not eliminate it? Place the
amplifiers behind or inside the speakers.

In my opinion, at least half of the "magic" occurring when premium
cables are added happens when the oxides and crud are accidentally
cleaned off the connections while the old cables are being removed and
the new cables are installed. I recommend breaking down and
reconnecting your system once or twice a year. Keep your connections
clean and tight.

-----------------------------------------------------------
SPAM:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, SPAMers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

In , on 11/19/03
at 06:54 AM, George Deliz said:

Here is a letter from a Def Tech rep in response to an inquiry about
bi-wiring:
"Michael,

Thanks for your recent email to Definitive Technology. There's
certainly some valid points to the theory of double wiring a
loudspeaker, however, our loudspeakers were designed to sound
more accurate or "true-to-the-source" when bi-wired.

Bi-wiring specifically allows your main amplifier to "see" the
electromagnetic feedback produced by your loudspeakers at the
component level. Meaning, as all drivers and tweeters vibrate (and
physically move), they want to "stay in motion". It's your amplifier's
job to dampen or control this movement so they don't move or vibrate
after they've produced the sounds they were supposed to. Your amplifier
has a specification called damping factor, which measures the amplifiers
ability to control the unwanted movement of your loudspeakers. (The
higher the rating, the better.)

When using a single set of speaker wires (or double-wiring your
loudspeakers), your amplifier receives electromagnetic feedback from
all the speaker components "together". You amplifier then has to
"decipher" which electromagnetic signals are being produced by the
midranges and which electromagnetic signals are being produced by the
tweeters. Your amplifier then tries to dampen or control this unwanted
movement. If your amplifier receives these electromagnetic signals from
the midrange and tweeters separately, it can do a better job of dampening
or controlling their unwanted movement.

I'm sure that if Dick Pierce sees the reference to "damping factor" he
will give his standard analysis.

I'll point out that either from a junction inside the amplifier chassis
or at the external speaker terminals, there is only one path between
the amplifier inside and the speakers. Joining the lows and highs
inside the speaker box or at the amplifier's speaker terminals does not
change the fact that what the internal amplifier actually "sees" is
always a mixture of lows and highs. (Even if there are "A" and "B"
speaker terminals on the outside, there is still a junction inside.)

Chet's discussion might hold slightly more water if separate low and
high amplifiers were used.

Assuming the engineers who designed any given loudspeaker listened to
the speakers bi-wired when they designed them, I'd argue that bi-wiring
a set of loudspeakers would allow you to hear a speaker as it was designed
to be heard. If, on the other hand, the engineers who designed a
loudspeaker listened to them (and designed them to sound natural) with
a single set of speaker wires, if you bi-wired them, you would hear
"something different" than what they were designed to sound like. The
engineer may have wanted a little bit of "unwanted" movement from the
tweeters and drivers to make them sound "natural". (I hope this makes a
little bit of sense.)

I assure you, all of our loudspeakers that are bi-wirable were
listened to and designed to sound "more-true-to-the-source" when
they are bi-wired.

Thanks,
Chet Pelkowski
Definitive Technology"

Are the Def Tech engineers actually doing what this fellow suggests or
is this just a PR guy feeding the myth machine and telling the
customers what they want to hear?

George Deliz

I don't want to blow their cover, but in first person discussions with
a world class speaker company, they were not very enthusiastic about
bi-wiring, but they do include the extra terminals because it is an
inexpensive way to follow market momentum.

If one is worried about speaker wire, why not eliminate it? Place the
amplifiers behind or inside the speakers.

In my opinion, at least half of the "magic" occurring when premium
cables are added happens when the oxides and crud are accidentally
cleaned off the connections while the old cables are being removed and
the new cables are installed. I recommend breaking down and
reconnecting your system once or twice a year. Keep your connections
clean and tight.

-----------------------------------------------------------
SPAM:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, SPAMers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

Hi Barry,

I must admit that while I have not tried Lows 12Gage cable, that once I get
to a certain level, 12 gage Monster let's say, I have been completely unable
to hear differences in cables. They may be there, but I have failed to find
them. Having said that;

"I don't want to blow their cover, but in first person discussions with
a world class speaker company, they were not very enthusiastic about
bi-wiring, but they do include the extra terminals because it is an
inexpensive way to follow market momentum."

A lot of manufactures do not do what they do because they believe in it, but
because others do. This is not to say that none of it does make a difference
however... In this instance I tend to agree with you, but I guess my point
is that this persons opinion is just that. I cannot think of anything
theoretical that would support this either, so as stated, I think him
correct.

"If one is worried about speaker wire, why not eliminate it? Place the
amplifiers behind or inside the speakers."

Or, why not allow people to be people and allow them to pacify themselves by
paying big money for cable?

"In my opinion, at least half of the "magic" occurring when premium
cables are added happens when the oxides and crud are accidentally
cleaned off the connections while the old cables are being removed and
the new cables are installed. I recommend breaking down and
reconnecting your system once or twice a year. Keep your connections
clean and tight."

It is very possible that you are 100% correct here, and this is surely good
advice, IMO. And, my opinion is worth every penny your spent on it! :-)

--
Best Regards,

Lou
"Barry Mann" wrote in message
om...
In , on 11/19/03
at 06:54 AM, George Deliz said:

Here is a letter from a Def Tech rep in response to an inquiry about
bi-wiring:
"Michael,

Thanks for your recent email to Definitive Technology. There's
certainly some valid points to the theory of double wiring a
loudspeaker, however, our loudspeakers were designed to sound
more accurate or "true-to-the-source" when bi-wired.

Bi-wiring specifically allows your main amplifier to "see" the
electromagnetic feedback produced by your loudspeakers at the
component level. Meaning, as all drivers and tweeters vibrate (and
physically move), they want to "stay in motion". It's your amplifier's
job to dampen or control this movement so they don't move or vibrate
after they've produced the sounds they were supposed to. Your amplifier
has a specification called damping factor, which measures the amplifiers
ability to control the unwanted movement of your loudspeakers. (The
higher the rating, the better.)

When using a single set of speaker wires (or double-wiring your
loudspeakers), your amplifier receives electromagnetic feedback from
all the speaker components "together". You amplifier then has to
"decipher" which electromagnetic signals are being produced by the
midranges and which electromagnetic signals are being produced by the
tweeters. Your amplifier then tries to dampen or control this unwanted
movement. If your amplifier receives these electromagnetic signals from
the midrange and tweeters separately, it can do a better job of dampening
or controlling their unwanted movement.

I'm sure that if Dick Pierce sees the reference to "damping factor" he
will give his standard analysis.

I'll point out that either from a junction inside the amplifier chassis
or at the external speaker terminals, there is only one path between
the amplifier inside and the speakers. Joining the lows and highs
inside the speaker box or at the amplifier's speaker terminals does not
change the fact that what the internal amplifier actually "sees" is
always a mixture of lows and highs. (Even if there are "A" and "B"
speaker terminals on the outside, there is still a junction inside.)

Chet's discussion might hold slightly more water if separate low and
high amplifiers were used.

Assuming the engineers who designed any given loudspeaker listened to
the speakers bi-wired when they designed them, I'd argue that bi-wiring
a set of loudspeakers would allow you to hear a speaker as it was
designed
to be heard. If, on the other hand, the engineers who designed a
loudspeaker listened to them (and designed them to sound natural) with
a single set of speaker wires, if you bi-wired them, you would hear
"something different" than what they were designed to sound like. The
engineer may have wanted a little bit of "unwanted" movement from the
tweeters and drivers to make them sound "natural". (I hope this makes a
little bit of sense.)

I assure you, all of our loudspeakers that are bi-wirable were
listened to and designed to sound "more-true-to-the-source" when
they are bi-wired.

Thanks,
Chet Pelkowski
Definitive Technology"

Are the Def Tech engineers actually doing what this fellow suggests or
is this just a PR guy feeding the myth machine and telling the
customers what they want to hear?

George Deliz

I don't want to blow their cover, but in first person discussions with
a world class speaker company, they were not very enthusiastic about
bi-wiring, but they do include the extra terminals because it is an
inexpensive way to follow market momentum.

If one is worried about speaker wire, why not eliminate it? Place the
amplifiers behind or inside the speakers.

In my opinion, at least half of the "magic" occurring when premium
cables are added happens when the oxides and crud are accidentally
cleaned off the connections while the old cables are being removed and
the new cables are installed. I recommend breaking down and
reconnecting your system once or twice a year. Keep your connections
clean and tight.

-----------------------------------------------------------
SPAM:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, SPAMers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

Hi Barry,

I must admit that while I have not tried Lows 12Gage cable, that once I get
to a certain level, 12 gage Monster let's say, I have been completely unable
to hear differences in cables. They may be there, but I have failed to find
them. Having said that;

"I don't want to blow their cover, but in first person discussions with
a world class speaker company, they were not very enthusiastic about
bi-wiring, but they do include the extra terminals because it is an
inexpensive way to follow market momentum."

A lot of manufactures do not do what they do because they believe in it, but
because others do. This is not to say that none of it does make a difference
however... In this instance I tend to agree with you, but I guess my point
is that this persons opinion is just that. I cannot think of anything
theoretical that would support this either, so as stated, I think him
correct.

"If one is worried about speaker wire, why not eliminate it? Place the
amplifiers behind or inside the speakers."

Or, why not allow people to be people and allow them to pacify themselves by
paying big money for cable?

"In my opinion, at least half of the "magic" occurring when premium
cables are added happens when the oxides and crud are accidentally
cleaned off the connections while the old cables are being removed and
the new cables are installed. I recommend breaking down and
reconnecting your system once or twice a year. Keep your connections
clean and tight."

It is very possible that you are 100% correct here, and this is surely good
advice, IMO. And, my opinion is worth every penny your spent on it! :-)

--
Best Regards,

Lou
"Barry Mann" wrote in message
om...
In , on 11/19/03
at 06:54 AM, George Deliz said:

Here is a letter from a Def Tech rep in response to an inquiry about
bi-wiring:
"Michael,

Thanks for your recent email to Definitive Technology. There's
certainly some valid points to the theory of double wiring a
loudspeaker, however, our loudspeakers were designed to sound
more accurate or "true-to-the-source" when bi-wired.

Bi-wiring specifically allows your main amplifier to "see" the
electromagnetic feedback produced by your loudspeakers at the
component level. Meaning, as all drivers and tweeters vibrate (and
physically move), they want to "stay in motion". It's your amplifier's
job to dampen or control this movement so they don't move or vibrate
after they've produced the sounds they were supposed to. Your amplifier
has a specification called damping factor, which measures the amplifiers
ability to control the unwanted movement of your loudspeakers. (The
higher the rating, the better.)

When using a single set of speaker wires (or double-wiring your
loudspeakers), your amplifier receives electromagnetic feedback from
all the speaker components "together". You amplifier then has to
"decipher" which electromagnetic signals are being produced by the
midranges and which electromagnetic signals are being produced by the
tweeters. Your amplifier then tries to dampen or control this unwanted
movement. If your amplifier receives these electromagnetic signals from
the midrange and tweeters separately, it can do a better job of dampening
or controlling their unwanted movement.

I'm sure that if Dick Pierce sees the reference to "damping factor" he
will give his standard analysis.

I'll point out that either from a junction inside the amplifier chassis
or at the external speaker terminals, there is only one path between
the amplifier inside and the speakers. Joining the lows and highs
inside the speaker box or at the amplifier's speaker terminals does not
change the fact that what the internal amplifier actually "sees" is
always a mixture of lows and highs. (Even if there are "A" and "B"
speaker terminals on the outside, there is still a junction inside.)

Chet's discussion might hold slightly more water if separate low and
high amplifiers were used.

Assuming the engineers who designed any given loudspeaker listened to
the speakers bi-wired when they designed them, I'd argue that bi-wiring
a set of loudspeakers would allow you to hear a speaker as it was
designed
to be heard. If, on the other hand, the engineers who designed a
loudspeaker listened to them (and designed them to sound natural) with
a single set of speaker wires, if you bi-wired them, you would hear
"something different" than what they were designed to sound like. The
engineer may have wanted a little bit of "unwanted" movement from the
tweeters and drivers to make them sound "natural". (I hope this makes a
little bit of sense.)

I assure you, all of our loudspeakers that are bi-wirable were
listened to and designed to sound "more-true-to-the-source" when
they are bi-wired.

Thanks,
Chet Pelkowski
Definitive Technology"

Are the Def Tech engineers actually doing what this fellow suggests or
is this just a PR guy feeding the myth machine and telling the
customers what they want to hear?

George Deliz

I don't want to blow their cover, but in first person discussions with
a world class speaker company, they were not very enthusiastic about
bi-wiring, but they do include the extra terminals because it is an
inexpensive way to follow market momentum.

If one is worried about speaker wire, why not eliminate it? Place the
amplifiers behind or inside the speakers.

In my opinion, at least half of the "magic" occurring when premium
cables are added happens when the oxides and crud are accidentally
cleaned off the connections while the old cables are being removed and
the new cables are installed. I recommend breaking down and
reconnecting your system once or twice a year. Keep your connections
clean and tight.

-----------------------------------------------------------
SPAM:
wordgame:123(abc):14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13 (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, SPAMers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------

"Lou" wrote in message


Or, why not allow people to be people and allow them to pacify
themselves by paying big money for cable?

The fallacy here is that expressing the opinion that expensive speaker wire
is a waste of cash and explaining the technical reasons why is going to keep
someone from doing what they want to do.

What do you think Lou, do you think that if I write enough posts about the
many fallacies of bi-wiring and other cable-related snake oil, all of a
sudden people's charge accounts are going to start rejecting charges for
snake oil? No, their free will is intact, all that is happened is that they
are better informed.

"Lou" wrote in message


Or, why not allow people to be people and allow them to pacify
themselves by paying big money for cable?

The fallacy here is that expressing the opinion that expensive speaker wire
is a waste of cash and explaining the technical reasons why is going to keep
someone from doing what they want to do.

What do you think Lou, do you think that if I write enough posts about the
many fallacies of bi-wiring and other cable-related snake oil, all of a
sudden people's charge accounts are going to start rejecting charges for
snake oil? No, their free will is intact, all that is happened is that they
are better informed.

Lou wrote:

Hi Barry,

I must admit that while I have not tried Lows 12Gage cable, that once I get
to a certain level, 12 gage Monster let's say, I have been completely unable
to hear differences in cables. They may be there, but I have failed to find
them. Having said that;

"I don't want to blow their cover, but in first person discussions with
a world class speaker company, they were not very enthusiastic about
bi-wiring, but they do include the extra terminals because it is an
inexpensive way to follow market momentum."

A lot of manufactures do not do what they do because they believe in it, but
because others do. This is not to say that none of it does make a difference
however... In this instance I tend to agree with you, but I guess my point
is that this persons opinion is just that. I cannot think of anything
theoretical that would support this either, so as stated, I think him
correct.

"If one is worried about speaker wire, why not eliminate it? Place the
amplifiers behind or inside the speakers."

Or, why not allow people to be people and allow them to pacify themselves by
paying big money for cable?

"In my opinion, at least half of the "magic" occurring when premium
cables are added happens when the oxides and crud are accidentally
cleaned off the connections while the old cables are being removed and
the new cables are installed. I recommend breaking down and
reconnecting your system once or twice a year. Keep your connections
clean and tight."

It is very possible that you are 100% correct here, and this is surely good
advice, IMO. And, my opinion is worth every penny your spent on it! :-)

--
Best Regards,

Lou
SNIP

Perhaps speaker manufacturers see no harm in pandering to audiophile
myth by recommending bi-wiring. It can be rationalized that bi-wiring
will not do any harm to the sound and need not cost the user a lot of
money. So if the audiophile has the belief that bi-wiring is the thing
to do, then reinforcing that belief will just make him all the more
pleased with himself and, of course, with the company that helped him
feel so pleased. There's just not a lot of integrity going around these
days.

George Deliz

Lou wrote:

Hi Barry,

I must admit that while I have not tried Lows 12Gage cable, that once I get
to a certain level, 12 gage Monster let's say, I have been completely unable
to hear differences in cables. They may be there, but I have failed to find
them. Having said that;

"I don't want to blow their cover, but in first person discussions with
a world class speaker company, they were not very enthusiastic about
bi-wiring, but they do include the extra terminals because it is an
inexpensive way to follow market momentum."

A lot of manufactures do not do what they do because they believe in it, but
because others do. This is not to say that none of it does make a difference
however... In this instance I tend to agree with you, but I guess my point
is that this persons opinion is just that. I cannot think of anything
theoretical that would support this either, so as stated, I think him
correct.

"If one is worried about speaker wire, why not eliminate it? Place the
amplifiers behind or inside the speakers."

Or, why not allow people to be people and allow them to pacify themselves by
paying big money for cable?

"In my opinion, at least half of the "magic" occurring when premium
cables are added happens when the oxides and crud are accidentally
cleaned off the connections while the old cables are being removed and
the new cables are installed. I recommend breaking down and
reconnecting your system once or twice a year. Keep your connections
clean and tight."

It is very possible that you are 100% correct here, and this is surely good
advice, IMO. And, my opinion is worth every penny your spent on it! :-)

--
Best Regards,

Lou
SNIP

Perhaps speaker manufacturers see no harm in pandering to audiophile
myth by recommending bi-wiring. It can be rationalized that bi-wiring
will not do any harm to the sound and need not cost the user a lot of
money. So if the audiophile has the belief that bi-wiring is the thing
to do, then reinforcing that belief will just make him all the more
pleased with himself and, of course, with the company that helped him
feel so pleased. There's just not a lot of integrity going around these
days.

George Deliz

"George Deliz" wrote in message


Perhaps speaker manufacturers see no harm in pandering to audiophile
myth by recommending bi-wiring. It can be rationalized that bi-wiring
will not do any harm to the sound and need not cost the user a lot of
money. So if the audiophile has the belief that bi-wiring is the thing
to do, then reinforcing that belief will just make him all the more
pleased with himself and, of course, with the company that helped him
feel so pleased.

Bi-wiring can be conceptually "The camel's nose".

I'm referring to the old arab proverb about letting the camel put his nose
into the tent.

What can be the harm of letting the camel put his nose into the tent?

Once his nose is in the tent, the camel next tries to put his head in the
tent.

What can be the harm of letting the camel put his head into the tent?

The problem comes when the camel's body follows his nose and head, and you
have the whole camel, ass and all in the tent. Yecch!

Bi-wiring can be like "The camel's nose". After the camel's nose comes the
camel's head. The camel's head might be upgraded interconnects.

Once a customer is *trained* to perceive that bi-wiring "makes a
difference", then he is far more susceptible to believing claims that
upgraded interconnects will "make a difference".

Once a customer is *trained* to perceive that upgraded interconnects "makes
a difference", then he is far more susceptible to claims that an upgraded
amplifier will "make a difference", and so on.

There's just not a lot of integrity going around these days.

Especially when the margins for good-sounding medium-priced electronics are
as slim as they are.

"George Deliz" wrote in message


Perhaps speaker manufacturers see no harm in pandering to audiophile
myth by recommending bi-wiring. It can be rationalized that bi-wiring
will not do any harm to the sound and need not cost the user a lot of
money. So if the audiophile has the belief that bi-wiring is the thing
to do, then reinforcing that belief will just make him all the more
pleased with himself and, of course, with the company that helped him
feel so pleased.

Bi-wiring can be conceptually "The camel's nose".

I'm referring to the old arab proverb about letting the camel put his nose
into the tent.

What can be the harm of letting the camel put his nose into the tent?

Once his nose is in the tent, the camel next tries to put his head in the
tent.

What can be the harm of letting the camel put his head into the tent?

The problem comes when the camel's body follows his nose and head, and you
have the whole camel, ass and all in the tent. Yecch!

Bi-wiring can be like "The camel's nose". After the camel's nose comes the
camel's head. The camel's head might be upgraded interconnects.

Once a customer is *trained* to perceive that bi-wiring "makes a
difference", then he is far more susceptible to believing claims that
upgraded interconnects will "make a difference".

Once a customer is *trained* to perceive that upgraded interconnects "makes
a difference", then he is far more susceptible to claims that an upgraded
amplifier will "make a difference", and so on.

There's just not a lot of integrity going around these days.

Especially when the margins for good-sounding medium-priced electronics are
as slim as they are.

"The Flash" wrote in message


I have to agree with lou? that expensive interconnects and speaker
cable are simply that, expensive. I have access to 60 thousand
dollars + of test equipment and have measured a large number of
cables, wires and such. The end result is that Yes I can measure
differences in cables, and no you will NOT hear any, almost any old
bit of wire will respond from kHz (DC) to 30Khz or more at flat
response levels. Spending $500 + on speaker cables cannot be
qualified no matter how hard you try. A golden ear will always
identify with price=sound quality, how else could Bose sell so many
Lifestyle system speaker, or truly dodgy 601 or 901 speakers?

I don't have $60,000 worth of test equipment but I used what I had to make
the frequency response and distortion measurements shown at
http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/LynxTWO/index.htm which are almost
disgustingly far into overkill compared to what the human ear can reliably
detect.

I have made some measurements that show differences in speaker cables such
as those shown at
http://www.pcavtech.com/techtalk/wire_size/index.htm (bottom of the page).

If we are getting really paranoid the main place to improve signal
quality is to remove th nasty little or big transmitter inside most
audio equipment! (namely the mains transformer and rectification) Now
this WORKS and any one who hears an amp or cdplayer that has haid
said modification done will be stunned.

Horsefeathers.

"The Flash" wrote in message


I have to agree with lou? that expensive interconnects and speaker
cable are simply that, expensive. I have access to 60 thousand
dollars + of test equipment and have measured a large number of
cables, wires and such. The end result is that Yes I can measure
differences in cables, and no you will NOT hear any, almost any old
bit of wire will respond from kHz (DC) to 30Khz or more at flat
response levels. Spending $500 + on speaker cables cannot be
qualified no matter how hard you try. A golden ear will always
identify with price=sound quality, how else could Bose sell so many
Lifestyle system speaker, or truly dodgy 601 or 901 speakers?

I don't have $60,000 worth of test equipment but I used what I had to make
the frequency response and distortion measurements shown at
http://www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/LynxTWO/index.htm which are almost
disgustingly far into overkill compared to what the human ear can reliably
detect.

I have made some measurements that show differences in speaker cables such
as those shown at
http://www.pcavtech.com/techtalk/wire_size/index.htm (bottom of the page).

If we are getting really paranoid the main place to improve signal
quality is to remove th nasty little or big transmitter inside most
audio equipment! (namely the mains transformer and rectification) Now
this WORKS and any one who hears an amp or cdplayer that has haid
said modification done will be stunned.

Horsefeathers.

I have to agree with lou? that expensive interconnects and speaker cable are
simply that, expensive. I have access to 60 thousand dollars + of test
equipment and have measured a large number of cables, wires and such. The
end result is that Yes I can mesure differences in cables, and no you will
NOT hear any, almost any old bit of wire will respond from 0Hz (DC) to 30Khz
or more at flat response levels. Spending $500 + on speaker cables cannot be
qualified no matter how hard you try. A golden ear will always identify with
price=sound quality, how else could Bose sell so many Lifestyle system
speaker, or truly dodgy 601 or 901 speakers?

If we are getting really paranoid the main place to improve signal quality
is to remove th nasty little or big transmitter inside most audio equipment!
(namely the mains transformer and rectification) Now this WORKS and any one
who hears an amp or cdplayer that has haid said modification done will be
stunned.

Ok, using a double shielded cable helps as well but ground loops are an
issue.

The best amp I ever heard was running off leadacid batteries and had an
amazing cleanness to it, I forget the exact noise levels he had got the amp
down to but it was a quantum jump from factory and an amzing effort
considering it was a 303 Quad (a class B amp)!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"George Deliz" wrote in message


Perhaps speaker manufacturers see no harm in pandering to audiophile
myth by recommending bi-wiring. It can be rationalized that bi-wiring
will not do any harm to the sound and need not cost the user a lot of
money. So if the audiophile has the belief that bi-wiring is the thing
to do, then reinforcing that belief will just make him all the more
pleased with himself and, of course, with the company that helped him
feel so pleased.

Bi-wiring can be conceptually "The camel's nose".

I'm referring to the old arab proverb about letting the camel put his nose
into the tent.

What can be the harm of letting the camel put his nose into the tent?

Once his nose is in the tent, the camel next tries to put his head in
the
tent.

What can be the harm of letting the camel put his head into the tent?

The problem comes when the camel's body follows his nose and head, and you
have the whole camel, ass and all in the tent. Yecch!

Bi-wiring can be like "The camel's nose". After the camel's nose comes the
camel's head. The camel's head might be upgraded interconnects.

Once a customer is *trained* to perceive that bi-wiring "makes a
difference", then he is far more susceptible to believing claims that
upgraded interconnects will "make a difference".

Once a customer is *trained* to perceive that upgraded interconnects
"makes
a difference", then he is far more susceptible to claims that an upgraded
amplifier will "make a difference", and so on.

There's just not a lot of integrity going around these days.

Especially when the margins for good-sounding medium-priced electronics
are
as slim as they are.

I have to agree with lou? that expensive interconnects and speaker cable are
simply that, expensive. I have access to 60 thousand dollars + of test
equipment and have measured a large number of cables, wires and such. The
end result is that Yes I can mesure differences in cables, and no you will
NOT hear any, almost any old bit of wire will respond from 0Hz (DC) to 30Khz
or more at flat response levels. Spending $500 + on speaker cables cannot be
qualified no matter how hard you try. A golden ear will always identify with
price=sound quality, how else could Bose sell so many Lifestyle system
speaker, or truly dodgy 601 or 901 speakers?

If we are getting really paranoid the main place to improve signal quality
is to remove th nasty little or big transmitter inside most audio equipment!
(namely the mains transformer and rectification) Now this WORKS and any one
who hears an amp or cdplayer that has haid said modification done will be
stunned.

Ok, using a double shielded cable helps as well but ground loops are an
issue.

The best amp I ever heard was running off leadacid batteries and had an
amazing cleanness to it, I forget the exact noise levels he had got the amp
down to but it was a quantum jump from factory and an amzing effort
considering it was a 303 Quad (a class B amp)!

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"George Deliz" wrote in message


Perhaps speaker manufacturers see no harm in pandering to audiophile
myth by recommending bi-wiring. It can be rationalized that bi-wiring
will not do any harm to the sound and need not cost the user a lot of
money. So if the audiophile has the belief that bi-wiring is the thing
to do, then reinforcing that belief will just make him all the more
pleased with himself and, of course, with the company that helped him
feel so pleased.

Bi-wiring can be conceptually "The camel's nose".

I'm referring to the old arab proverb about letting the camel put his nose
into the tent.

What can be the harm of letting the camel put his nose into the tent?

Once his nose is in the tent, the camel next tries to put his head in
the
tent.

What can be the harm of letting the camel put his head into the tent?

The problem comes when the camel's body follows his nose and head, and you
have the whole camel, ass and all in the tent. Yecch!

Bi-wiring can be like "The camel's nose". After the camel's nose comes the
camel's head. The camel's head might be upgraded interconnects.

Once a customer is *trained* to perceive that bi-wiring "makes a
difference", then he is far more susceptible to believing claims that
upgraded interconnects will "make a difference".

Once a customer is *trained* to perceive that upgraded interconnects
"makes
a difference", then he is far more susceptible to claims that an upgraded
amplifier will "make a difference", and so on.

There's just not a lot of integrity going around these days.

Especially when the margins for good-sounding medium-priced electronics
are
as slim as they are.