I've been given a live show to attempt to mix. There are bunches of popped
P's (no windscreens, apparently). I'm using Vegas (an older version) and
have all the usual sorts of FX but have no idea how to even approach this.
Any advice much appreciated (except, of course, the "get a different
singer/windscreen" types - too late for that ;-)

Scott
(the other, other one)

"SRS" wrote in message ...
I've been given a live show to attempt to mix. There are bunches of popped
P's (no windscreens, apparently). I'm using Vegas (an older version) and
have all the usual sorts of FX but have no idea how to even approach this.
Any advice much appreciated (except, of course, the "get a different
singer/windscreen" types - too late for that ;-)

Scott
(the other, other one)


Is the EQ broken?

"David Morgan \(MAMS\)" wrote in
news:NVv%f.10619$8g3.8053@trnddc02:

Is the EQ broken?


Well, like I said, I have no idea how to even approach this ;-). I suppose
that's a starting place. Thanks.

SRS wrote:

I've been given a live show to attempt to mix. There are bunches of popped
P's (no windscreens, apparently). I'm using Vegas (an older version) and
have all the usual sorts of FX but have no idea how to even approach this.
Any advice much appreciated (except, of course, the "get a different
singer/windscreen" types - too late for that ;-)

Scott
(the other, other one)

You can aim to ameliorate the problems in the frequency domain with EQ,
but there isn't a lot you can do to fix the dynamic portion of the
****up. If your software offers a sidechain function for the compressors
you can go after some of the dynamic problem there, but understand
you're not going to be able to "bondo" this thing into a shiny finish.

--
ha

SRS wrote:

I've been given a live show to attempt to mix. There are bunches of popped
P's (no windscreens, apparently). I'm using Vegas (an older version) and
have all the usual sorts of FX but have no idea how to even approach this.
Any advice much appreciated (except, of course, the "get a different
singer/windscreen" types - too late for that ;-)

If Vegas is similar to SoundForge it may not have an included
multiple-order highpass filter. You can use the low frequency shelf
[Process - EQ - Parametric]
attenuated -60dB, cutoff between 100-200 Hz, transition width 0.1.
Select the entire vocal track (this is a multitrack with vocals on
their
own track?) and give it several passes. Nastier pops may require
they be selected surgically and further attenuated by spot processing.

good luck
rd

hank alrich wrote:

You can aim to ameliorate the problems in the frequency domain with EQ,
but there isn't a lot you can do to fix the dynamic portion of the
****up. If your software offers a sidechain function for the compressors
you can go after some of the dynamic problem there, but understand
you're not going to be able to "bondo" this thing into a shiny finish.

I respectfully disagree. While it's tedious "turd polishing" if lots of
surgical selections need to be made, it should be able to be cleaned
up to a large degree.

Audition's 12th order highpass filter makes it a lot easier, but I'm
assuming Vegas operates like SF and includes the same "FX"

rd

SRS wrote:
I've been given a live show to attempt to mix. There are bunches of popped
P's (no windscreens, apparently). I'm using Vegas (an older version) and
have all the usual sorts of FX but have no idea how to even approach this.
Any advice much appreciated (except, of course, the "get a different
singer/windscreen" types - too late for that ;-)

Low pass the whole thing to begin with. Then try using the waveform
drawing tool.

It MIGHT be possible to just slice out the pop as well, just cutting it
with the blade.

In the analogue world, we use a typewriter eraser on the tape oxide...
just scrape it down until the pop is minimized. The waveform drawing
tool will let you do the same thing more easily.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I've corrected plosives in Sonar by editing the waveform. You should
be able to spot the plosive in the waveform, then just highlight that
section and lower the volume by 3 db or so. It takes some practice, but
it will work.

DaveT

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ...
SRS wrote:
I've been given a live show to attempt to mix. There are bunches of popped
P's (no windscreens, apparently). I'm using Vegas (an older version) and
have all the usual sorts of FX but have no idea how to even approach this.
Any advice much appreciated (except, of course, the "get a different
singer/windscreen" types - too late for that ;-)

Low pass the whole thing to begin with. Then try using the waveform
drawing tool.

It MIGHT be possible to just slice out the pop as well, just cutting it
with the blade.

In the analogue world, we use a typewriter eraser on the tape oxide...
just scrape it down until the pop is minimized. The waveform drawing
tool will let you do the same thing more easily.

Right... for saving time a HPF would be the simplest way to start.

Unfortunately, the HF information is written on top of the LF information
in the waveform. LF pops are usually far to lengthy in duration to simply
snip without resulting in a glitch or obviously missing audio along the
time-line.

It's going to be a pain in the ass, but chances are that the OP is going
to have to manually select each plosive and EQ and/or gain reduce it.

I fix the 30 or so pops that creep into my church service every Sunday
by EQing away everything below 100hz over just the plosive itself.
I use a plain old DirX 20-band graphic EQ plug in SoundForge.
Nothing to worry about quality on here, since you're only touching
15 to 30ms worth of material.

Every now and then, if the plosive comes after the word or between
syllables it can be cut out, but not often enough to even worry with.

..02 cents

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

"hank alrich" wrote in message
. ..

You can aim to ameliorate the problems in the frequency domain with EQ,
but there isn't a lot you can do to fix the dynamic portion of the
****up. If your software offers a sidechain function for the compressors
you can go after some of the dynamic problem there, but understand
you're not going to be able to "bondo" this thing into a shiny finish.

Hank is right here. But I have been able to use a sidechain-fast attack
compressor to make them far less prominent and usable.That's the first
choice for me.. editing the waveform is the last choice but can yield
excellent results.

Scott,

There are bunches of popped P's

I've done this by applying a severe low-cut, but only to the short region
of the pop's duration. If you have a few dozen pops to fix this is no big
deal and will take half an hour. If there are hundreds of them you could
look into automated level reduction with a limiter and side-chain as others
suggested. The advantage of using EQ instead of simply dropping the volume
is you retain the sound of the plosive syllable but lose the "ex"-plosive
portion. :-)

--Ethan

SRS wrote:
I've been given a live show to attempt to mix. There are bunches of popped
P's (no windscreens, apparently). I'm using Vegas (an older version) and
have all the usual sorts of FX but have no idea how to even approach this.
Any advice much appreciated (except, of course, the "get a different
singer/windscreen" types - too late for that ;-)

Scott
(the other, other one)

Are the vocals on their own tracks or part of a two bus? If they are on
their own track(s) your task is much easier. It's tedious but this is
what I've found to work, sometimes beyond expectations (which should be
pretty low considering the source):

1. In a wave editor highlight just around the offensive P pop or B
blast
2. Use a high pass filter appropriately set to compromise between pop
removal and introduction of unwanted side effects.
3. If the high pass doesn't remove enough by itself, start adjusting
the amplitude of the offending area downward, again compromising
between pop removal and side effects
4. Repeat 2 and 3 as necessary - do this all non-destructively (have
undo enabled) until best results obtained.
5. Bitch at necessary persons about how tedious this was, how much it
cost and how much better (and less expensive) it would be to avoid the
P pops and B blasts in the first place. They must have not sounded all
that great through FOH either.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

I'll agree with most of the other suggestions so far, but I'll throw in one
mo

Assuming you have the individual tracks, take them to a mastering studio (or
regular studio) that has Cedar ReTouch or Algorhythmix Renovator.

I use ReTouch all the time to remove plosives, usually in fully mixed
material, with moderate to excellent results. These tools are much better at
getting out the unwanted sounds with the least amount of damage, especially
over the standard pencil/redraw tools.

If you'd like to send me a small audio clip with a representative plosive,
I'll see what I can do.


Allen
--
Allen Corneau
Mastering Engineer
Essential Sound Mastering
www.esmastering.com

"RD Jones" wrote in message
ups.com
hank alrich wrote:

You can aim to ameliorate the problems in the frequency
domain with EQ, but there isn't a lot you can do to fix
the dynamic portion of the ****up. If your software
offers a sidechain function for the compressors you can
go after some of the dynamic problem there, but
understand you're not going to be able to "bondo" this
thing into a shiny finish.

It's not going to totally go away, but thinks can be fixed up good enough
for a live recording that is listened to a bit casually.

I respectfully disagree. While it's tedious "turd
polishing" if lots of surgical selections need to be
made, it should be able to be cleaned up to a large
degree.

Agreed. Of course, Hank might just judging based on his usually high
standards. In the end you can't get all the toothpaste back into the tube. I
think that's all he's saying.

Audition's 12th order highpass filter makes it a lot
easier,

Agreed - zoom in, carefully mark the afflicted area and high pass at 100 Hz
or higher if its really bad.

I can usually get a fix that will sound good enough in a car going 70 mph,
but not good enough to totally fool a a critical listener with a good pair
of nearfields or headphones.

but I'm assuming Vegas operates like SF and
includes the same "FX"

I dunno about that. Audition seems to have an extraordinary number of highly
usable built-in EFX. The downside is that they tend to be on the technical
side and come with a less-than-thrilling set of presets in some cases.

Hi Scott,

There are lots of FX and EQ and solutions offered, but unless there are
dozens of problem areas, I prefer a much more direct approach.

I've not tried this in Vegas, but fixing popped P's manually in
Audition is pretty painless. Find the pop. Select the area of the
waveform where it occurs. (It's always very obvious.) Lower the volume
of the area. If you want to EQ, you can do that to the affected area as
well.

In Audition you can add "Favorite" settings that make this really fast.
I can fix a 3-minute vocal with a half-dozen pops in a couple of
minutes. It probably take almost that long to play with plug-in
settings.

The huge advantage of doing this manually is that you are not messing
with the rest of the track, only the problem areas. Usually that's a
good thing. If the whole track is problematic, maybe you want to use
the plug-in approach.

Good luck,

Dean

If only it was as easy as killfiling all the Linux fanboys and their
ridiculous threads. :-)

On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:29:30 GMT, SRS
wrote:

I've been given a live show to attempt to mix. There are bunches of popped
P's (no windscreens, apparently). I'm using Vegas (an older version) and
have all the usual sorts of FX but have no idea how to even approach this.
Any advice much appreciated (except, of course, the "get a different
singer/windscreen" types - too late for that ;-)


I've tried automatic solutions and waveform drawing. But I usually
end up going through the waeform at moderately high magnification,
selecting the pop and applying quite a few dB
gain reduction.

"RD Jones" wrote in message
ups.com...

hank alrich wrote:

You can aim to ameliorate the problems in the frequency domain with EQ,
but there isn't a lot you can do to fix the dynamic portion of the
****up. If your software offers a sidechain function for the compressors
you can go after some of the dynamic problem there, but understand
you're not going to be able to "bondo" this thing into a shiny finish.

I respectfully disagree. While it's tedious "turd polishing" if lots of
surgical selections need to be made, it should be able to be cleaned
up to a large degree.

Audition's 12th order highpass filter makes it a lot easier, but I'm
assuming Vegas operates like SF and includes the same "FX"

I've found that judicious application of Audition's "Remove single click"
feature, plus highpass filtering (maybe 3rd order Bessel) can remove most
P-pops. But it'll take you a long, long time.

Peace,
Paul

I've been given a live show to attempt to mix. There are bunches of
popped
P's (no windscreens, apparently). I'm using Vegas (an older version) and
have all the usual sorts of FX but have no idea how to even approach this.
Any advice much appreciated (except, of course, the "get a different
singer/windscreen" types - too late for that ;-)

A transient modifier is your daddy. If you don't have one already Voxengo's
Transmodder is only $60. You can isolate the frequency band of the pops and
attenuate them if the transient exceeds the threshold you set. I'm
surprised how much I've used mine, and it's very transparent. A great use
is for acoustic guitars, you can make it sound like they're using a heavier
or lighter pick. With a live recording chances are the mics and/or
positions don't offer as much snap as you'd like, easily fixed. Once a
friend had recorded a djembe with a condenser on top and a dynamic
underneath, and the condenser sounded like the player was using sticks. We
tried attenuating the high transients and boosting the mid transients, and
bingo - it sounded like hands again.

There's Waves Trans-X too, and probably others, but none as cheap.