[Phil W]

With regards to the recent discussion about Behringer´s new digital mixer:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2011/...ounce-the-x32/

Not really much to see, but *some* more information than on the B website:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx

Just for those, who might be interested... ;-)


Phil

[Sean Conolly]

"Phil W" wrote in message
...
With regards to the recent discussion about Behringer´s new digital mixer:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2011/...ounce-the-x32/

Not really much to see, but *some* more information than on the B website:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx

Just for those, who might be interested... ;-)

I am, thanks!

The Presonus has struck me more as a home/project studio board that can be
used live, but this is more of a live board that can be used for recording -
so far.

Including motorized faders makes me wonder how well this will do as a
control surface.

Sean

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/15/2011 11:53 PM, Sean Conolly wrote:

The Presonus has struck me more as a home/project studio board that can be
used live, but this is more of a live board that can be used for recording -
so far.

My take on the PreSonus StudioLive is that it's a live board that can be
used for studio recording.. I think it's too early to tell exactly what
the Behringer X2 will turn out like.




--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[Sean Conolly]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 1/15/2011 11:53 PM, Sean Conolly wrote:

The Presonus has struck me more as a home/project studio board that can
be
used live, but this is more of a live board that can be used for
recording -
so far.

My take on the PreSonus StudioLive is that it's a live board that can be
used for studio recording.. I think it's too early to tell exactly what
the Behringer X2 will turn out like.

As a follow-up to one of my earlier posts on the Presonus, I finally got
back to the guy I know who has one and who also works in one the busiest
commercail studios around here, to get an opinion of how the sound quality
compares to their top end gear.

He wasn't really willing to try a direct comparison to the SSL or Trident
since they're just in a completely different class, but he is very, very
happy with the sound he gets from the class A preamps. Basically if you
can't get a good sound from the Presonus, it's not the board's fault.

Both of these boards are aimed at the folks who need to cover both the sound
& recording roles on a budget, and maybe don't have a lot of other gear to
build on. This may include me this year - I've been seriously considering
moving on from my Crest/Motu rig to somthing that works better in both
roles. Maybe.

Sean

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/16/2011 4:10 PM, Sean Conolly wrote:

I finally got
back to the guy I know who has one and who also works in one the busiest
commercail studios around here, to get an opinion of how the sound quality
compares to their top end gear.

He wasn't really willing to try a direct comparison to the SSL or Trident
since they're just in a completely different class, but he is very, very
happy with the sound he gets from the class A preamps. Basically if you
can't get a good sound from the Presonus, it's not the board's fault.

I don't have any complaints about the sound with the StudioLive, I just
find that it's not very convenient to work with in a multitrack
recording environment. I could list my issues, but yours would probably
be different.



--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio" - John Watkinson

Drop by http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com now and then

[Arny Krueger]

"Sean Conolly" wrote in message

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 1/15/2011 11:53 PM, Sean Conolly wrote:

The Presonus has struck me more as a home/project
studio board that can be
used live, but this is more of a live board that can be
used for recording -
so far.

My take on the PreSonus StudioLive is that it's a live
board that can be used for studio recording.. I think
it's too early to tell exactly what the Behringer X2
will turn out like.

As a follow-up to one of my earlier posts on the
Presonus, I finally got back to the guy I know who has
one and who also works in one the busiest commercail
studios around here, to get an opinion of how the sound
quality compares to their top end gear.
He wasn't really willing to try a direct comparison to
the SSL or Trident since they're just in a completely
different class, but he is very, very happy with the
sound he gets from the class A preamps. Basically if you
can't get a good sound from the Presonus, it's not the
board's fault.

To me the most impressive he Presonus mic preamp spec is their -16 dB to +67
dB (+/- 1 dB) gain range. That's 83 dB in a world where 60 dB is considered
good and 50 dB is sometimes OK. On paper they can handle a good loud line
levels signal or a relatively insensitive dynamic vocal mic being used for
area pickup with one twist of a knob. Their noise figure appears to be just
a few dB worse than the best theoretical possible noise performance. If
they maintain their frequency response and distortion performance over that
wide range of gain, then they will be a true pleasure to work with.

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 08:13:50 -0500, Arny Krueger wrote:

"Sean Conolly" wrote in message

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 1/15/2011 11:53 PM, Sean Conolly wrote:

The Presonus has struck me more as a home/project studio board that
can be
used live, but this is more of a live board that can be used for
recording -
so far.

My take on the PreSonus StudioLive is that it's a live board that can
be used for studio recording.. I think it's too early to tell exactly
what the Behringer X2 will turn out like.

As a follow-up to one of my earlier posts on the Presonus, I finally
got back to the guy I know who has one and who also works in one the
busiest commercail studios around here, to get an opinion of how the
sound quality compares to their top end gear. He wasn't really willing
to try a direct comparison to the SSL or Trident since they're just in
a completely different class, but he is very, very happy with the sound
he gets from the class A preamps. Basically if you can't get a good
sound from the Presonus, it's not the board's fault.

To me the most impressive he Presonus mic preamp spec is their -16 dB to
+67 dB (+/- 1 dB) gain range. That's 83 dB in a world where 60 dB is
considered good and 50 dB is sometimes OK. On paper they can handle a
good loud line levels signal or a relatively insensitive dynamic vocal
mic being used for area pickup with one twist of a knob. Their noise
figure appears to be just a few dB worse than the best theoretical
possible noise performance. If they maintain their frequency response
and distortion performance over that wide range of gain, then they will
be a true pleasure to work with.

I have a Presonus 2626 and Presonus Digimax FS, both with the XMAX
preamps. The preamps do sound pretty good. The only complaints I have is
that if you track everything through them, then the mix starts to sound a
bit lacking in the low mids, and seems to creep towards sounding a bit
trebly. Also, when recording close mic'ed drums with dynamic mics and the
gains turned really low, the tracks seem to lack a bit of punch.
Clean acoustic stuff sounds great as the treble makes everything a bit
more present without EQ and there is less low mid mud when I go to mix,
but it still sounds warm. Recording and mixing rock bands seems to be a
bit more work than normal though.

The Mackie 24/8 preamps into Delta 1010s seemed to suffer less from this
on drum kit and have a bit more punch, but not as sweet top end. My
Focusrite ISA220 into either converters seems to have a more solid low
midrange on vocals and acoustic instruments, but I don't use it much on
drums so can't compare there.

I'd be interested if there was any way of measuring what I think I'm
hearing.

[Sean Conolly]

"philicorda" wrote in message
...
I have a Presonus 2626 and Presonus Digimax FS, both with the XMAX
preamps. The preamps do sound pretty good. The only complaints I have is
that if you track everything through them, then the mix starts to sound a
bit lacking in the low mids, and seems to creep towards sounding a bit
trebly. Also, when recording close mic'ed drums with dynamic mics and the
gains turned really low, the tracks seem to lack a bit of punch.
Clean acoustic stuff sounds great as the treble makes everything a bit
more present without EQ and there is less low mid mud when I go to mix,
but it still sounds warm. Recording and mixing rock bands seems to be a
bit more work than normal though.

To be fair, those mic preamps are completely different than the ones on the
StudioLive boards.

Sean

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:02:26 -0500, Sean Conolly wrote:

"philicorda" wrote in message
...
I have a Presonus 2626 and Presonus Digimax FS, both with the XMAX
preamps. The preamps do sound pretty good. The only complaints I have
is that if you track everything through them, then the mix starts to
sound a bit lacking in the low mids, and seems to creep towards
sounding a bit trebly. Also, when recording close mic'ed drums with
dynamic mics and the gains turned really low, the tracks seem to lack a
bit of punch. Clean acoustic stuff sounds great as the treble makes
everything a bit more present without EQ and there is less low mid mud
when I go to mix, but it still sounds warm. Recording and mixing rock
bands seems to be a bit more work than normal though.

To be fair, those mic preamps are completely different than the ones on
the StudioLive boards.

In the spec for the studiolive they say "Class A XMAX mic preamplifiers",
which I assumed were the same as the "Class A XMAX mic preamplifers" in
the Firestudio/Digimax spec.

I appreciate that this does have to mean they are exactly the same, but
it would suggest they are not completely different, if they are different
at all.



Sean

[Sean Conolly]

"philicorda" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:02:26 -0500, Sean Conolly wrote:

"philicorda" wrote in message
...
I have a Presonus 2626 and Presonus Digimax FS, both with the XMAX
preamps. The preamps do sound pretty good. The only complaints I have
is that if you track everything through them, then the mix starts to
sound a bit lacking in the low mids, and seems to creep towards
sounding a bit trebly. Also, when recording close mic'ed drums with
dynamic mics and the gains turned really low, the tracks seem to lack a
bit of punch. Clean acoustic stuff sounds great as the treble makes
everything a bit more present without EQ and there is less low mid mud
when I go to mix, but it still sounds warm. Recording and mixing rock
bands seems to be a bit more work than normal though.

To be fair, those mic preamps are completely different than the ones on
the StudioLive boards.

In the spec for the studiolive they say "Class A XMAX mic preamplifiers",
which I assumed were the same as the "Class A XMAX mic preamplifers" in
the Firestudio/Digimax spec.

I appreciate that this does have to mean they are exactly the same, but
it would suggest they are not completely different, if they are different
at all.

I'll retract my statement then - I did not know that the 1U Presonus boxes
used the same preamp.

Sean

[Arny Krueger]

"philicorda" wrote in message


I'd be interested if there was any way of measuring what
I think I'm hearing.

My first cut at this problem would be to simply look at the FR of each
preamp.

My second cut at this problem would be to simply look at the FR of the
mixing facility with only 1 channel driven.

If that does not shed light then I would be obliged to create one
uncorrelated broadband measurement-oriented wave for each input, sum the lot
of them, and look at the spectral balance of the resulting wave.

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 23:49:49 -0500, Sean Conolly wrote:
snip
I appreciate that this does have to mean they are exactly the same, but
it would suggest they are not completely different, if they are
different at all.

I'll retract my statement then - I did not know that the 1U Presonus
boxes used the same preamp.

On re-reading, I found the preamp gain range is different.
The Firestudio has a 0 to 60 dBu range on the mic input, and StudioLive
has -15 to +65 dBu.


Sean

[Keoki]

Hmmm... Behringer... I just spent $250 to have a 42-input one
repaired. A bad 17V regulator on the PS...
Had to have the mixer shipped over the ocean fox the fix, and UPS
brought it in dropped / broken yesterday.

(The same UPS which got a Tascam mixer from Thornburg, PA in 10 days
less than half the way to me so far... I paid the seller extra to ship
via US Priority Mail, she thought she knows better. An item I bought
the same day from all the way up NY arrived with Priority Mail 4 days
ago already.)

It's a new experience when instead of gear you start to see people
"failing". Pardon my ramblings, maybe I just have a bad day.

[Bill Graham]

Keoki wrote:
Hmmm... Behringer... I just spent $250 to have a 42-input one
repaired. A bad 17V regulator on the PS...
Had to have the mixer shipped over the ocean fox the fix, and UPS
brought it in dropped / broken yesterday.

(The same UPS which got a Tascam mixer from Thornburg, PA in 10 days
less than half the way to me so far... I paid the seller extra to ship
via US Priority Mail, she thought she knows better. An item I bought
the same day from all the way up NY arrived with Priority Mail 4 days
ago already.)

It's a new experience when instead of gear you start to see people
"failing". Pardon my ramblings, maybe I just have a bad day.

There are some items that I wouldn't ship away to get fixed. I would find a
local tech, or fix it myself, and send away for the bad part should I find
it. You just can't trust shippers to pack some stuff carefully enough to
withstand the rigours of travel. If I bought a stradivarious violin from
some guy in Europe, (for example) I would go there to pick it up, and bring
it back with me. The few hundred dollars it would cost me would be nothing
compared to the million? it cost to buy it. The alternative is to insure the
item for its full value, and arrange to have it held at the shippers office
where you can open it in front of one of their employees. I have opened too
many packages only to find a pile of junk inside them in the past to trust
shippers with delicate equipment.