[Arny Krueger]

It's called the X32.

32-Channel 16-Bus Digital Total Recall Live/Recording Mixing Console
Total recall
32 channels with inserts
16 mix busses with inserts
6 aux sends and returns
8 stereo FX returns
6 matrix mixers with inserts
6 mute groups
8 DCA groups
Full-recording / multi-channel networking via FW/USB expansion cards*
48-channel "digital snake" via ultra-low latency AES50 ports*
Fully programmable, high-end mic preamps
25 low-noise 100mm motorized faders
Super-easy user-interface with direct access
No confusing menus
High-resolution 7" colour TFT display
Individual LCD displays per channel, DCA and Bus
Full dynamics and EQ per channel, busses and matrices
Adjustable line-delays on all inputs and outputs
Virtual FX rack with 8 FX slots
Powerful scene management for shows
On-board recorder for uncompressed WAV files on USB flash drive
Remote editor software to control via USB or Ethernet
Extensive channel strip controls with user-definable control sections
Connections to BEHRINGER P-16 personal monitoring system
AES/EBU stereo digital output and full MIDI implementation
Super-compact and lightweight

$2999.99 USD

[Sean Conolly]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
It's called the X32.

32-Channel 16-Bus Digital Total Recall Live/Recording Mixing Console
Total recall
32 channels with inserts
16 mix busses with inserts
6 aux sends and returns
8 stereo FX returns
6 matrix mixers with inserts
6 mute groups
8 DCA groups
Full-recording / multi-channel networking via FW/USB expansion cards*
48-channel "digital snake" via ultra-low latency AES50 ports*
Fully programmable, high-end mic preamps
25 low-noise 100mm motorized faders
Super-easy user-interface with direct access
No confusing menus
High-resolution 7" colour TFT display
Individual LCD displays per channel, DCA and Bus
Full dynamics and EQ per channel, busses and matrices
Adjustable line-delays on all inputs and outputs
Virtual FX rack with 8 FX slots
Powerful scene management for shows
On-board recorder for uncompressed WAV files on USB flash drive
Remote editor software to control via USB or Ethernet
Extensive channel strip controls with user-definable control sections
Connections to BEHRINGER P-16 personal monitoring system
AES/EBU stereo digital output and full MIDI implementation
Super-compact and lightweight

$2999.99 USD

Don't see it on their site yet, do you have a link?

Sean

[Kevin Aylward[_4_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
m...

It's called the X32.

32-Channel 16-Bus Digital Total Recall Live/Recording Mixing Console
Total recall
32 channels with inserts
16 mix busses with inserts
6 aux sends and returns
8 stereo FX returns
6 matrix mixers with inserts
6 mute groups
8 DCA groups
Full-recording / multi-channel networking via FW/USB expansion cards*
48-channel "digital snake" via ultra-low latency AES50 ports*
Fully programmable, high-end mic preamps
25 low-noise 100mm motorized faders
Super-easy user-interface with direct access
No confusing menus
High-resolution 7" colour TFT display
Individual LCD displays per channel, DCA and Bus
Full dynamics and EQ per channel, busses and matrices
Adjustable line-delays on all inputs and outputs
Virtual FX rack with 8 FX slots
Powerful scene management for shows
On-board recorder for uncompressed WAV files on USB flash drive
Remote editor software to control via USB or Ethernet
Extensive channel strip controls with user-definable control sections
Connections to BEHRINGER P-16 personal monitoring system
AES/EBU stereo digital output and full MIDI implementation
Super-compact and lightweight

$2999.99 USD


Bu I would guess, unserviceable if its like a lot of their other kit. It
goes wrong, and you have to throw it away.



Regards

Kevin Aylward B.Sc.

www.kevinaylward.co.uk
"Live Long And Prosper \V/"

[Mike Rivers]

On 12/31/2010 10:13 AM, Arny Krueger wrote:
It's called the X32.

So, will it replace your Yamahas?


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Mike Rivers]

On 12/31/2010 11:54 AM, Sean Conolly wrote:

Don't see it on their site yet, do you have a link?

You need to know the secret URL:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx

The official release is at the NAMM show in a couple of
weeks. Not much more info than what Arny posted. Interesting
part is that it's not yet approved for sale in the US and
Canada pending FCC certification.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message


On 12/31/2010 10:13 AM, Arny Krueger wrote:

It's called the X32.

So, will it replace your Yamahas?

With only 32 channels?

Nahhh!

Besides, why replace what's working so well?

If I needed a mixer for the chapel or youth room...

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message

On 12/31/2010 11:54 AM, Sean Conolly wrote:

Don't see it on their site yet, do you have a link?

You need to know the secret URL:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx

The official release is at the NAMM show in a couple of
weeks. Not much more info than what Arny posted.
Interesting part is that it's not yet approved for sale
in the US and Canada pending FCC certification.

The "P16 Personal Mixer" has even less doc at this time. I wonder if it will
force Aviom to rethink their price structure.

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 12/31/2010 11:54 AM, Sean Conolly wrote:

Don't see it on their site yet, do you have a link?

You need to know the secret URL:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx

The official release is at the NAMM show in a couple of weeks. Not much
more info than what Arny posted. Interesting part is that it's not yet
approved for sale in the US and Canada pending FCC certification.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a
passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated
without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff

This is no secret. been in development for more than 2 years. I have touched
one and it is amazing, even offered some suggestions to some ability to set
global parameters that are now part of this version , glad I sold off my ls9
while it still appeared to have value, theprice of digital domain mixing is
now taking it's quantum step lower
I like the interface on this but am also working up a full SAC rig at this
time

George

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 12/31/2010 10:13 AM, Arny Krueger wrote:
It's called the X32.

So, will it replace your Yamahas?

Yes
I sold my ls9 when I first got to alpha test and consult on this mixer
there is going to be a awful lot of over priced digital product out there
shortly

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 1/1/2011 6:50 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

This is no secret. been in development for more than 2 years. I have
touched
one and it is amazing, even offered some suggestions to some ability to
set
global parameters that are now part of this version

How do you get to do that? I've wished that I had been asked to have some
input on stuff that I see, stuff that just has a few really stoopid things
that would be easy to correct if only someone who had actually worked with
such a product had taken a closer look at it. They know who I am, but I
guess they're afraid to ask me for an opinion. g Of course i'd like to
get paid for it, too.

It goes way way back, when everyone was talking crap and repeating the urban
legends that all behringer did was copy other peoples stuff I actually took
the time to sort the truth from the rumors. I have never claimed behringer
was going to replace XTA or BSS in the market but I also did not join the
"lets bash them without out understanding world business practices" either

I am a strong supported of choosing the tools that fit the job, and more
often than not this is a unit that will turn you a profit within its
designed life. Behringer dos that as least as well as anyone.
and I support them for that reason, they make me TONS of money and allow me
to satisfy my clients.
This is the same reason I support Meyer Sound Labs

My problem with the smaller format digital consoles, and this isn't really
something that's going to get fixed until they establish a higher price
point, is that they're missing a large part of what a console really is.
Not only is a console a set of controls, it's a set of indicators. You
shouldn't have to push a button, or worse, select something from a menu,
to see at a glance whether anything's coming out an Aux send, or whether a
low cut filter is switched in or not.

most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on
metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B
without pressing the afl button, I really see no diffrenece, a press is a
ress is a press on calls up one selected channel on a led ladder(analog)
the other opens a entire output meter screen(digital)

I was a early adopter of digital mixing and still can not find a single down
side to it
it is just a skill set I need to have ready as a live sound company owner, I
do meet lots of engineers who are challenged by learning how to actually mix
and they put up mental blocks about learning a new skill
that is a career ending decision IMO
George


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a
passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated
without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff

[[email protected]]

On 2011-01-02 said:
My problem with the smaller format digital consoles, and this
isn't really something that's going to get fixed until they
establish a higher price point, is that they're missing a large
part of what a console really is. Not only is a console a set of
controls, it's a set of indicators. You shouldn't have to push a
button, or worse, select something from a menu, to see at a
glance whether anything's coming out an Aux send, or whether a
low cut filter is switched in or not.
most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on
metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7
or 500B without pressing the afl button, I really see no diffrenece,
a press is a ress is a press on calls up one selected channel on a
led ladder(analog) the other opens a entire output meter
screen(digital)
INdeed, and this is a paradigm that the blind guy has dealt
with even in the analog world. AFter all, we had to patch
our audible or vibratory metering across the channel whose
level we wished to monitor. even with those little vibrator
motors built into metering as I've described here in the
past you couldn't monitor 8 simultaneously even. This meant
you did your gainstaging carefully during sound check and
gave yourself some head room.

Having said that, I still like my old analog iron, with
*every* control available from the panel. ONe of us can be
sound checking talent which isn't going to air yet while the
other is mixing the live feed, etc.





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

wrote in message
...

On 2011-01-02 said:
My problem with the smaller format digital consoles, and this
isn't really something that's going to get fixed until they
establish a higher price point, is that they're missing a large
part of what a console really is. Not only is a console a set of
controls, it's a set of indicators. You shouldn't have to push a
button, or worse, select something from a menu, to see at a
glance whether anything's coming out an Aux send, or whether a
low cut filter is switched in or not.
most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on
metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7
or 500B without pressing the afl button, I really see no diffrenece,
a press is a ress is a press on calls up one selected channel on a
led ladder(analog) the other opens a entire output meter
screen(digital)
INdeed, and this is a paradigm that the blind guy has dealt
with even in the analog world. AFter all, we had to patch
our audible or vibratory metering across the channel whose
level we wished to monitor. even with those little vibrator
motors built into metering as I've described here in the
past you couldn't monitor 8 simultaneously even. This meant
you did your gainstaging carefully during sound check and
gave yourself some head room.

Having said that, I still like my old analog iron, with
*every* control available from the panel. ONe of us can be
sound checking talent which isn't going to air yet while the
other is mixing the live feed, etc.

and how is that diffrent with a digital desk?
you just use your solo stacking feature and deselect the routing to any
outputs
George





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message
rlakestechnologygroup...

wrote in message
...

On 2011-01-02 said:
My problem with the smaller format digital consoles, and this
isn't really something that's going to get fixed until they
establish a higher price point, is that they're missing a large
part of what a console really is. Not only is a console a set of
controls, it's a set of indicators. You shouldn't have to push a
button, or worse, select something from a menu, to see at a
glance whether anything's coming out an Aux send, or whether a
low cut filter is switched in or not.
most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on
metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7
or 500B without pressing the afl button, I really see no diffrenece,
a press is a ress is a press on calls up one selected channel on a
led ladder(analog) the other opens a entire output meter
screen(digital)
INdeed, and this is a paradigm that the blind guy has dealt
with even in the analog world. AFter all, we had to patch
our audible or vibratory metering across the channel whose
level we wished to monitor. even with those little vibrator
motors built into metering as I've described here in the
past you couldn't monitor 8 simultaneously even. This meant
you did your gainstaging carefully during sound check and
gave yourself some head room.

Having said that, I still like my old analog iron, with
*every* control available from the panel. ONe of us can be
sound checking talent which isn't going to air yet while the
other is mixing the live feed, etc.

and how is that diffrent with a digital desk?
you just use your solo stacking feature and deselect the routing to any
outputs
George

and while I have done that once or twice, most often if that is needed it is
well known before hand and you bring seperate desks for the reason.
I can not think of one single occasion that I could "soundcheck" a not yet
on stage band while a band is playing
you just can't make the noise, even with no routing to monitors or house
sound
George

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
It's called the X32.

32-Channel 16-Bus Digital Total Recall Live/Recording Mixing Console
Total recall
32 channels with inserts
16 mix busses with inserts
6 aux sends and returns
8 stereo FX returns
6 matrix mixers with inserts
6 mute groups
8 DCA groups
Full-recording / multi-channel networking via FW/USB expansion cards*
48-channel "digital snake" via ultra-low latency AES50 ports*
Fully programmable, high-end mic preamps
25 low-noise 100mm motorized faders
Super-easy user-interface with direct access
No confusing menus
High-resolution 7" colour TFT display
Individual LCD displays per channel, DCA and Bus
Full dynamics and EQ per channel, busses and matrices
Adjustable line-delays on all inputs and outputs
Virtual FX rack with 8 FX slots
Powerful scene management for shows
On-board recorder for uncompressed WAV files on USB flash drive
Remote editor software to control via USB or Ethernet
Extensive channel strip controls with user-definable control sections
Connections to BEHRINGER P-16 personal monitoring system
AES/EBU stereo digital output and full MIDI implementation
Super-compact and lightweight

$2999.99 USD
Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this was
"officially" annpounced
http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...xer-2010-11-29

[philicorda[_9_]]

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 13:37:32 -0500, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
It's called the X32.
snip
$2999.99 USD
Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this
was "officially" annpounced
http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...s-new-digital-
mixer-2010-11-29

Isn't that an old Yamaha analog desk? Or perhaps a TEAC or fostex from
the same era. I'm sure I recognise it from somewhere.

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"philicorda" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 13:37:32 -0500, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
It's called the X32.
snip
$2999.99 USD
Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this
was "officially" annpounced
http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...s-new-digital-
mixer-2010-11-29

Isn't that an old Yamaha analog desk? Or perhaps a TEAC or fostex from
the same era. I'm sure I recognise it from somewhere.

Yes, I just wanted people to take a look at the feature list a bit closer

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message
rlakestechnologygroup...

"philicorda" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 13:37:32 -0500, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
It's called the X32.
snip
$2999.99 USD
Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this
was "officially" annpounced
http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...s-new-digital-
mixer-2010-11-29

Isn't that an old Yamaha analog desk? Or perhaps a TEAC or fostex from
the same era. I'm sure I recognise it from somewhere.

Yes, I just wanted people to take a look at the feature list a bit closer
The behringer is in a rack mount frame ,last I saw from about a year ago

[[email protected]]

On 2011-01-02 said:
screen(digital) INdeed, and this is a paradigm that the blind
guy has dealt with even in the analog world. AFter all, we had
to patch our audible or vibratory metering across the channel
whose level we wished to monitor. even with those little
vibrator motors built into metering as I've described here in the
past you couldn't monitor 8 simultaneously even. This meant
you did your gainstaging carefully during sound check and
gave yourself some head room.
Having said that, I still like my old analog iron, with
*every* control available from the panel. ONe of us can be
sound checking talent which isn't going to air yet while the
other is mixing the live feed, etc.
and how is that diffrent with a digital desk?
you just use your solo stacking feature and deselect the routing
to any outputs
RIght, not thinking whole bands so much, as the talking
head while the sporting event is happening but talking head
isn't ready to go to air yet grin.
I'm just used to the tool, and working with it with multiple
bodies simultaneously.

GOes back to another thread running ad nauseam this ng
lately, ergonomics and workflow have a lot to do with the
choices we make grin. The different workflow because of
metering would be one mental conversion I don't have to make
however, which was my original point grin. One patches
one's metering during initial setup, and checks it out
occasionally whilst monitoring sources that require constant
monitoring. Another reason I like working out of my truck.
I can have a couple audible meters, spatial location tells
me which one is sounding off, and a couple more vibrators
situated about my body to monitor others, but there are
still practical limits grin.
Three auditory on the meter bridge of the console (good ol'
left center and right) two vibrators in pockets.

I hope you had gear out making you money on amateur's night
but got to stay out of the fray friend.

Regards,





Richard webb,

replace anything before at with elspider
ON site audio in the southland: see www.gatasound.com

[Kevin Aylward[_4_]]

"George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message
rlakestechnologygroup...

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 1/1/2011 6:50 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

This is no secret. been in development for more than 2 years. I have
touched
one and it is amazing, even offered some suggestions to some ability
to set
global parameters that are now part of this version

How do you get to do that? I've wished that I had been asked to have some
input on stuff that I see, stuff that just has a few really stoopid
things that would be easy to correct if only someone who had actually
worked with such a product had taken a closer look at it. They know who I
am, but I guess they're afraid to ask me for an opinion. g Of course
i'd like to get paid for it, too.

It goes way way back, when everyone was talking crap and repeating the
urban legends that all behringer did was copy other peoples stuff I
actually took the time to sort the truth from the rumors. I have never
claimed behringer was going to replace XTA or BSS in the market but I
also did not join the "lets bash them without out understanding world
business practices" either

Behringer has pros and cons. The pro is that it is cheap, but by and large,
not very serviceable.

I have 2 behringer powered mixers. I have yet to figure out how to dismantle
one of them to replace the master volume pot that got bent a bit.
Furthermore, to get a replacement pot is about $25 all in all.

I now use a Studiomaster powered wedge mixer as its mic input noise
is -127db verses the huge -112dbv of the behringer. The noise of the
Behringer is very noticeable at pub gigs, let along recording.

My gig on this new years eve had a major problem in that a brand new
behringer keyboard combo amp just died in the middle of "brick in the wall".
The output drivers seem to have gone bad.

My brother has one of their 24 channel live mixers. Behringer don't
understand that in normal use, one would like the main output led metering
to actually display the output signals. They don't. You can only get the
meters to read things like soloing of a channel etc. I was absolute stunned
on discovering this. How can anyone get that wrong.

I have a berihnger guitar foot pedal, the knob snapped off. Furthermore,
there is no way to get the foot volume to reduce the sound to off. How can
anyone get that wrong.

I have had an Ernie Ball foot pedal for 9 years. Works fine.

I am a strong supported of choosing the tools that fit the job, and more
often than not this is a unit that will turn you a profit within its
designed life. Behringer dos that as least as well as anyone.
and I support them for that reason, they make me TONS of money and allow me
to satisfy my clients.
This is the same reason I support Meyer Sound Labs


My problem with the smaller format digital consoles, and this isn't
really something that's going to get fixed until they establish a higher
price point, is that they're missing a large part of what a console
really is. Not only is a console a set of controls, it's a set of
indicators. You shouldn't have to push a button, or worse, select
something from a menu, to see at a glance whether anything's coming out
an Aux send, or whether a low cut filter is switched in or not.

most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on
metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B
without pressing the afl button, I really see no diffrenece, a press is a
ress is a press on calls up one selected channel on a led ladder(analog)
the other opens a entire output meter screen(digital)

I was a early adopter of digital mixing and still can not find a single
down side to it

For live work, ifs its got pots for all the main functions, they are the
best thing since sliced bread. The cheaper ones with no independent pots for
things are a pain in the arse when used in a pub.

Kevin Aylward B.Sc.
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
"Live Long And Prosper \V/"

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

Kevin, if you want to send the truck I can fill it wwith broken and not
cost effective to service stuff from
symetrix,soundcraft,aphex,ashley,yamaha,Dod,and yes even some Meyer
afaik bent knob shafts signal serious abuse and if you can't figure out how
to open a powered mixer, then you have no business inside of it

and resale value, I just bought a large format world class analog Ramsa sx-1
56 channels for less than 5% of its new value 15 years ago, I would guess 5%
is just about scrap value. I doubt whom ever owned ever earned a nickle off
of it.
when you can recoup the cost of gear on its first or second use, who the
hell cares if it lasts for years
once it has doubled you expense sell it and you will not have service
nightmares
and with gear like behring you ought be able to pocket profit within a
month of ownership, well within the 1 year NO QUESTIONS exchange program
they have set up to handle warrentee repairs
slag at them all you want, it is a big open market,I suggest you buy
something else
something else much more expensive, this will allow guys like me to meet
the diminishing budgets that events have and still walk to the bank at the
end of the night while other guys sit and wonder why they cant get work
like they used to.

This audio stuff is a business and until we take the emotion and perdjuice
out of our choices and look at ROI and suitability for the job good buying
decisions are impossible

but if emotion and ego are what drives ones buying decisions then don't fret
over selling a desk that cost 100,000$ selling for 4K in perfect condition
some get their satisfation with name badges, I get mine with bank deposits
george

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/2/2011 12:13 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on
metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7
or 500B without pressing the afl button,

You may not know how many volts you're sending (you'll take
care of that during setup), but on an analog console, you
can tell relative levels simply by looking at the position
of the knobs. And many large format live and studio consoles
have a real meter bridge with meters on the aux outputs.

and how is that diffrent with a digital desk?
you just use your solo stacking feature and deselect the routing to any
outputs

I don't even know what that means. g

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 1/2/2011 12:13 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
most small mixers, analog or digital do not come with full always on
metering, how would you know what level a aux was sending on a LX7
or 500B without pressing the afl button,

You may not know how many volts you're sending (you'll take care of that
during setup), but on an analog console, you can tell relative levels
simply by looking at the position of the knobs. And many large format live
and studio consoles have a real meter bridge with meters on the aux
outputs.


I do not find knob position a indication of any level being sent
small format desks are just that small format desk, be the analog or
digital, and one must do a tiny bit more to see on a small format desk what
a large format desk has the real estate to display
if I really did not want to select a meter screen or press a afl button I
would deploy the large format mixer, either digital or analog, so I could
have that feature

with 20 auxes( and some dual shaft ones at that) on my big analog desk it
takes quite a bit of attention to determine by knob position what is
what!!!!
George

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/2/2011 2:16 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote:

My brother has one of their 24 channel live mixers.
Behringer don't understand that in normal use, one would
like the main output led metering to actually display the
output signals. They don't. You can only get the meters to
read things like soloing of a channel etc.

How strange. Maybe it's always been broken. I have a little
Behringer tabletop sized mixer, a Xenix 1204FX, I think. I
got it for a review and they told me that if I could use it,
to keep it, that it wasn't worth the cost of shipping back.

I suspect that your brother's mixer works the same way as
the one I have. The meters read what you've selected for
monitoring (headphones/Control Room outputs) except when you
press a SOLO button, in which case they show the channel
level. Since normally you'd be monitoring the main mix, when
you press that button, the meters are reading the main mix
level.

What may seem a little kooky is that the meters are ahead of
the main L/R output faders, so what you're seeing is the
level coming out of the summing bus. This is what you really
want to watch to be sure you aren't clipping the bus. You
can hear how loud the PA system is, and presumably you've
calibrated what comes after the mixer so that when the
meters hit the pin with the faders all the way up, you're
still below clipping. With the main faders at their "unity
gain" position, the meters actually do represent the output
level. I'm pretty sure that 0 dB on the meters is +4 dBu, or
at least it's a constant. It's true, you don't see the
meters go downscale when you fade out the mains, but then if
you do that, you want to do it by ear, not by eye.

I was absolute
stunned on discovering this. How can anyone get that wrong.

It's just one way of doing it. It's a good way of forcing
you to set up the system for maximum headroom rather than
having to keep the meters down in the bottom quarter of the
scale where they don't tell you anything useful since you
have too much gain on the power amplifiers.

I have a berihnger guitar foot pedal, the knob snapped off.

The phantom power LED on my Behringer mixer failed (there's
still phantom power) but it's a surface mounted LED on the
main circuit board. I'm not likely to replace it. Stuff breaks.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Sean Conolly]

"Kevin Aylward" wrote in message
...
Behringer has pros and cons. The pro is that it is cheap, but by and
large, not very serviceable.

There's lot's of stuff that fits that description. The problem with most of
it is that it's not that functional or reliable, much less servicable. The
more recent Behringer stuff has been quite reliable for me and I have some
in use at every gig.

I also know exactly what I'm looking for before I start shopping for
something, so I am rarely disappointed with my choices.

Sean

[Trevor]

"Kevin Aylward" wrote in message
...
My brother has one of their 24 channel live mixers. Behringer don't
understand that in normal use, one would like the main output led metering
to actually display the output signals. They don't. You can only get the
meters to read things like soloing of a channel etc. I was absolute
stunned on discovering this. How can anyone get that wrong.

Funny, all my Behringers do main output metering (including the SL24's and
UB24's) My Yamaha EMX5000 OTOH *won't* do any PFL metering! How can anyone
get that wrong? Fact is, every mixer I've ever used had some good features,
and ones you really wished it had, but didn't. Part of what makes the
purchasing process difficult.

Trevor.

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/2/2011 3:32 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

I just bought a large format world class analog Ramsa sx-1
56 channels for less than 5% of its new value 15 years ago,

That sounds like a pretty good deal. I just took a look and
found a 48 channel one for a little over $4,000. I trust you
paid less than that. I would have balked at paying $4K for a
console of that age unless I knew it was in really good
shape and I had work planned for it. I don't know how much
they went for new, I'd guess about $15K but that's based on
size and weight, not a knowledge of what they actually cost.
Or maybe your example of paying $4K for a console that
originally cost $100K refers to this one.

I doubt whom ever owned ever earned a nickle off of it.

That's not a problem with the console, it's a problem with
the owner.

when you can recoup the cost of gear on its first or second use, who the
hell cares if it lasts for years

It's only recently that you've been able to do that, though.
I've had my Soundcraft 600 since it ws new, that's about 25
years now. I'm sure I've paid for it a couple of times over,
but then I'm a part time user. If it went out every weekend
at book rate, it probably would have been paid off in a few
months.

once it has doubled you expense sell it and you will not have service
nightmares
and with gear like behring you ought be able to pocket profit within a
month of ownership, well within the 1 year NO QUESTIONS exchange program
they have set up to handle warrentee repairs

Hey, now that's a really good racket. Buy one for $500, use
it for six months of convention gigs at $750/day, send it in
for a new one, and sell it. But it's hard to have any pride
of ownership of your tools when you're working at that level.

This audio stuff is a business and until we take the emotion and perdjuice
out of our choices and look at ROI and suitability for the job good buying
decisions are impossible

No question but that's how you have to work.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/2/2011 1:37 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago

How unusual to have analog meters on a digital console. I
like it already.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/2/2011 4:48 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 1/2/2011 1:37 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago

Never mind.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 1/2/2011 3:32 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

I just bought a large format world class analog Ramsa sx-1
56 channels for less than 5% of its new value 15 years ago,

That sounds like a pretty good deal. I just took a look and found a 48
channel one for a little over $4,000. I trust you paid less than that. I
would have balked at paying $4K for a console of that age unless I knew it
was in really good shape and I had work planned for it. I don't know how
much they went for new, I'd guess about $15K but that's based on size and
weight, not a knowledge of what they actually cost.

Mike list on the sx-1 in a config close to mine in size was 96,000.00$
as far as I can reserch
it tested out 100% no noise , no problems , NOTHING!1 it came with 3 power
supplies as well(it take two just to turn it on) nothing except pfl level on
one channel was down 2 dB from the rest
it is a "hey look at me" piece of gear, sound greast but is really slow to
get around on compared to any digital product, and it requires a truck and
at 800 lbs , 8 guys to set it up
it really is more a marketing tool than a "go to" mixer
I do earn quite a bit off it cross renting it to guys who no longer have big
VCA desks but need one, I get 750/day for it
it really shines as a 8 mono + 6 stereo in ears monitor mixer

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

Hey, now that's a really good racket. Buy one for $500, use it for six
months of convention gigs at $750/day, send it in for a new one, and sell
it. But it's hard to have any pride of ownership of your tools when you're
working at that level.


LOL I started with that"pride in ownership" stuff, all crest 8001/2 amps,
soundcraft K2 mixer, BSS analog eq, audix om 7 mics
it all went to **** long before it paid for it's self

Back then I did not understand that all electronics were piles of parts
waiting to break
I bought higher end MI speakers and ex-pensive processing

I have changed my business model to own disposable processing and Meyer
loudspeakers
This earns me ALOT MORE money as speakers go out of fashion much slower
than processing does. and quite frankly I feel I get sound equal or better
than most new companies touting some wiz bang line array that they really
don't deploy properly and try to make it fit every situation
plus I am not trying to serve the 50,000 seat stadium shows, I really do
well and focus on the 2500 seat and less theaters
and imo line arrays just simply are the wrong product for the work I
"mostly" do
george

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

Here is a little better picture of it from a few months ago when this
was "officially" annpounced
http://www.mio.co.za/article/behring...xer-2010-11-29

No, looks like something 1980's. A great reminder that a bridge full of real
mechanical vu-meters may in fact be quite helpful if properly aligned.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Kevin Aylward[_4_]]

"George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message
rlakestechnologygroup...

afaik bent knob shafts signal serious abuse and if you can't figure out
how to open a powered mixer, then you have no business inside of it

Why would that be?

I am professional analogue design engineer, and have been so for 30 years. I
am not a mechanical tech, nor am I in the general business of repairing
audio equipment for employment. Sure, whilst at university I did have a fair
bit of on the side repair work for a music shop, a £20 repair was a good
percentage increase on my £45 weekly student grant money, but I no even
longer build what I design. Its a "would you expect an architect to lay
bricks"? Despite this, I have opened and repaired more bits of kit that
probably most in this NG.

So, non expertise in opening boxes, stuffed in china, that are not designed
for servicing, is hardly a good reason to avoid throwing money away by not
trying. If you have some suitable instructions for opening up the PMP1280S I
would welcome your obviously superior knowledge on this matter.

Kevin Aylward B.Sc.
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
"Live Long And Prosper \V/"

[Kevin Aylward[_4_]]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...

On 1/2/2011 2:16 PM, Kevin Aylward wrote:

My brother has one of their 24 channel live mixers.
Behringer don't understand that in normal use, one would
like the main output led metering to actually display the
output signals. They don't. You can only get the meters to
read things like soloing of a channel etc.

How strange. Maybe it's always been broken.

That's an interesting possibility.

I have a little Behringer tabletop sized mixer, a Xenix 1204FX, I think. I
got it for a review and they told me that if I could use it, to keep it,
that it wasn't worth the cost of shipping back.
I suspect that your brother's mixer works the same way as the one I have.
The meters read what you've selected for monitoring (headphones/Control
Room outputs) except when you press a SOLO button, in which case they show
the channel level. Since normally you'd be monitoring the main mix, when
you press that button, the meters are reading the main mix level.

Its a Eurodesk SL2442FX-Pro. I will have another check when I get over to
see him.


Kevin Aylward B.Sc.
www.kevinaylward.co.uk

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Kevin Aylward" wrote in message
...
"George's Pro Sound Co." wrote in message
rlakestechnologygroup...

afaik bent knob shafts signal serious abuse and if you can't figure out
how to open a powered mixer, then you have no business inside of it

Why would that be?

I am professional analogue design engineer, and have been so for 30 years.
I am not a mechanical tech, nor am I in the general business of repairing
audio equipment for employment. Sure, whilst at university I did have a
fair bit of on the side repair work for a music shop, a £20 repair was a
good percentage increase on my £45 weekly student grant money, but I no
even longer build what I design. Its a "would you expect an architect to
lay bricks"? Despite this, I have opened and repaired more bits of kit
that probably most in this NG.

So, non expertise in opening boxes, stuffed in china, that are not
designed for servicing, is hardly a good reason to avoid throwing money
away by not trying. If you have some suitable instructions for opening up
the PMP1280S I would welcome your obviously superior knowledge on this
matter.

Kevin Aylward B.Sc.
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
"Live Long And Prosper \V/"

If I had one on hand I would look at it , figure it out and tell you
otherwise contact


Jim Savery is the WORLD customer service manager and will get your question
routed to the right department
George

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

If you have some suitable instructions for opening up the PMP1280S I
would welcome your obviously superior knowledge on this matter.

Kevin Aylward B.Sc.
www.kevinaylward.co.uk
"Live Long And Prosper \V/"

Kebin
you have mail
George

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/2/2011 4:58 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:

Mike list on the sx-1 in a config close to mine in size was 96,000.00$
as far as I can reserch

it is a "hey look at me" piece of gear, sound greast but is really slow to
get around on compared to any digital product, and it requires a truck and
at 800 lbs , 8 guys to set it up
it really is more a marketing tool than a "go to" mixer
I do earn quite a bit off it cross renting it to guys who no longer have big
VCA desks but need one, I get 750/day for it

Obviously there's still a call for something like that now
and then, and it's good that, as a businessman as well as an
engineer, you're able to supply it. I'm not sure that an
investor today could buy a new console like that.

Considering that your business is to make sure that sound
comes out of whatever you supply, it's important to offer a
wide range of gear at a wide range of prices. Clearly
there's a valid place in your inventory for disposable
mixers as well as classic consoles. There's no reason not to
play the game that way.

But you're not the typical Behringer customer. The typical
Behringer customer doesn't have cash flow. He barely scrapes
enough money together to buy that one $400 mixer that he
hopes to be using until his studio outgrows it, which may be
several years. I see lots of people who are still using the
Mackie CR1604 that they bought nearly 20 years ago and are
concerned that one channel is getting noisy. He will
probably opt for buying a new mixer rather than a ten year
old one.

10-15 years ago, Behringer, regardless of your take on their
"engineering practices," characteristically built their
equipment in the cheapest way possible. They pioneered
Chinese manufacturing of audio equipment and probably should
be given credit for making it work, at least most of the
time. It gave them a big cost advantage over the
competitors. But today nearly everything is built like that
(Yeah, it's a generalization - I know about Manley and Fearn
and Hardy etc.) so it's harder for someone to make a choice
purely on cost.

That being said, I think that the new Behringer digital
console, if it gets out the gate soon enough, and
sufficiently bug-free, will give the PreSonus StudioLive
24.4.2 a good run for the money and may offer an alternative
for people attracted to the Roland system but find it too
pricey. The Behringer seems to be looking at the same sort
of connectivity that Roland (and, sure, Yamaha, too) has
been pushing - integrated digital snake system, integrated
multichannel monitor system, and such.

Can they get a foothold into that market? Hard to tell.
PreSonus seems to be making some headway, but they didn't
come into the marketplace with the "cheap stuff that works
better than you'd expect, until it breaks" reputation.

I wish them luck. Maybe they've beefed up their "pro"
marketing. They keep coming up with what see like might be
decent studio consoles, but with nobody I know using them I
really can't tell if it's a line of business for them or
just an experiment that they dabble in because they can.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/2/2011 11:00 PM, Peter Larsen wrote:

No, looks like something 1980's. A great reminder that a bridge full of real
mechanical vu-meters may in fact be quite helpful if properly aligned.

And furthermore, probably cost more than the new Behringer
digital mixer.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

Mike I see placement of this console squarely in the local confrence and
trade show typeevents
mixing in digital is just too difficult for most weekend bands to put the
time into understanding Parametric eq, discreet monitor mixes , a complete
arsnel of dynamics. mosy weekend bands are lucky if they understand the
trimknob on a analog desk much less the concepts required when one has so
many tools available
so small shows for regional guys like me will be where I see this desk
landing
I will be buying 2 or three of them
I have long predicted that the snake had to be part of the digital systm to
really maximize its attractivness
the next step will be auto gain and fft analysis of each input so the
uneducated user will be able to "get it running" with out understanding gain
structure or eq.
at that point most "soundguys" who have not advanced past the "weekend
bands guy" will be out of business as the console will be better at their
jobs than they are
George

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
...
On 1/2/2011 11:00 PM, Peter Larsen wrote:

No, looks like something 1980's. A great reminder that a bridge full of
real
mechanical vu-meters may in fact be quite helpful if properly aligned.

And furthermore, probably cost more than the new Behringer digital mixer.



Everyone loves the simulated VU on the deq2496 meter selection
George

[Arny Krueger]

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message


On 1/2/2011 12:13 PM, George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
most small mixers, analog or digital do not come
with full always on metering, how would you know
what level a aux was sending on a LX7 or 500B
without pressing the afl button,

You may not know how many volts you're sending (you'll
take care of that during setup), but on an analog
console, you can tell relative levels simply by looking
at the position of the knobs.

I don't see a lot of difference or if there is a difference any loss between
that and how things work on my digital console. The "knobs" may be on a
menu that has to be displayed but I usually can select that menu by simply
touching the relevant fader. One key to a happy life on a digital console is
knowing how to bring up menus, and wherever possible how to bring them up
with only one or at worst two touches to controls that are highly relevant
to what you want to do.

For example, when I'm mixing live I usually bring up the menu that shows
PFL, eq settings, and a number of other relevant settings. Then, whatever
fader I touch brings up that menu for that channel.

Some people seem to hate layers, but to me layers mean that I never have to
look at more than 24 faders at a time. I put the most frequently adjusted
faders on the first layer, and the rest on the other two.

Similarly, I vastly prefer having just one set of eq controls that jump to
the selected channel when I touch its fader.

Rather than having to thread my way through 448 knobs for aux sends, I only
have to look at the virtual knobs for one aux channel at a time. Or, I have
the option at looking at all of the virtual knobs for the aux sends for one
input channel at a time. In the case where I'm looking at the 56 virtual
knobs for one aux channel, I can select which one by touching the fader knob
for that channel.

And many large format live
and studio consoles have a real meter bridge with meters
on the aux outputs.

My digital console has meters on every input and output. Where there is an
option for what they show, they are usually set to PFL. And that is what I
get with no pysical meter bridge at all. Why would I want a meter bridge
interferring with sight lines to the performers?