Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like
everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under $1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N). Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie work that they would like to provide? Thank you, Henry |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
In article ,
henrytj wrote: I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under $1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N). Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie work that they would like to provide? You can use it. It doesn't stink. It does not provide real confidence monitoring, but life is like that. It will probably be more reliable than a wireless link to the camera. Synchronization WILL require a slate. Slate the beginning and end of each take and don't try and skip a slate. Have someone on set whose job it is to keep a list of what camera files and what sound files go together and with which takes. I STRONGLY recommend, though, that you get a good hypercardioid before you do anything else. I also suggest that it is MUCH easier to keep a boom operator on your crew if you have a real boom instead of a painter's pole. I know, you can do it, we have all done it, but after eight hours of holding the thing you will have real trouble getting your boom op back for a second day. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
On Jun 4, 2:31*pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
You can use it. *It doesn't stink. *It does not provide real confidence monitoring, but life is like that. *It will probably be more reliable than a wireless link to the camera. Synchronization WILL require a slate. *Slate the beginning and end of each take and don't try and skip a slate. *Have someone on set whose job it is to keep a list of what camera files and what sound files go together and with which takes. I STRONGLY recommend, though, that you get a good hypercardioid before you do anything else. I also suggest that it is MUCH easier to keep a boom operator on your crew if you have a real boom instead of a painter's pole. *I know, you can do it, we have all done it, but after eight hours of holding the thing you will have real trouble getting your boom op back for a second day. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Thanks. It turns out that I've been the one that has been the boom op. I have so far done both set photography and boom op. And been an extra when absolutely needed. 25 years ago I did take film production courses back in college. And now, that I am frequently out of work I have time to help out with projects. So I'm trying to help out with everything. Having a person for every job is rather iffy. As the projects I help with are not paying its often difficult to get enough crew such that people don't have to double up on positions. |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
henrytj wrote:
I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under $1000 recorders have noise problems You have? Problems? Exactly what have you heard? I've gone over quite a few of them, and some lack gain on the external mic inputs (which could result in excessive noise). Is that what you're talking about? If so, the H4 is pretty good with external mics, and it supplies 48V phantom power. The H2 works quite well with its internal mics and line level sources, but not well when using external mics connected to its mic input. Better to use a preamp into the line input. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
Mike Rivers wrote:
| henrytj wrote: || I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to || the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in || a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other || under $1000 recorders have noise problems | You have? Problems? Exactly what have you heard? I've gone over quite | a few of them, and some lack gain on the external mic inputs (which | could result in excessive noise). Is that what you're talking about? | If so, the H4 is pretty good with external mics, and it supplies 48V | phantom power. The H2 works quite well with its internal mics and | line level sources, but not well when using external mics connected | to its mic input. Better to use | a preamp into the line input. It took a bit of finagling but I have successfully mastered some H2 recordings in 2008, some of them were underrecorded by 30 dB using the internal mic with an incorrect gain setting, so Ï'm inclined to say: "not to worry, configure so that clipping doesn't occur and set and forget. | double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers Kind regards Peter Larsen |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
Peter Larsen wrote:
It took a bit of finagling but I have successfully mastered some H2 recordings in 2008, some of them were underrecorded by 30 dB using the internal mic with an incorrect gain setting, so Ï'm inclined to say: "not to worry, configure so that clipping doesn't occur and set and forget. And the way to do this is to never set the recording level adjustment higher than 100 (it goes to 127) and keep the meters on screen using the three-position attenuator switch. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
In article
, henrytj wrote: I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under $1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N). Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie work that they would like to provide? Thank you, Henry The newer H4n has improved the preamplifier noise floor quite a bit over the older H4. There's a comparison of the H4s and the Sony PCM-D50 at: http://www.bradlinder.net/2009/03/te...ony-pcm-d50.ht ml -Jay |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
On Jun 4, 4:52*pm, Mike Rivers wrote:
henrytj wrote: I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under $1000 recorders have noise problems You have? Problems? Exactly what have you heard? I've gone over quite a few of them, and some lack gain on the external mic inputs (which could result in excessive noise). Is that what you're talking about? If so, the H4 is pretty good with external mics, and it supplies 48V phantom power. The H2 works quite well with its internal mics and line level sources, but not well when using external mics connected to its mic input. Better to use a preamp into the line input. I have read on other forums where audio-philes state that they hear pre-amp noise from almost all lesser-expense equipment. But I am hoping that whatever I get (maybe the Zoom H4) is still good enough for no and low-budget movie production. ANd for walking around and recording sound effects and background sounds to build up my own library. |
#9
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
"henrytj" wrote ...
Mike Rivers wrote: henrytj wrote: I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under $1000 recorders have noise problems You have? Problems? Exactly what have you heard? I've gone over quite a few of them, and some lack gain on the external mic inputs (which could result in excessive noise). Is that what you're talking about? If so, the H4 is pretty good with external mics, and it supplies 48V phantom power. The H2 works quite well with its internal mics and line level sources, but not well when using external mics connected to its mic input. Better to use a preamp into the line input. I have read on other forums where audio-philes state that they hear pre-amp noise from almost all lesser-expense equipment. But I am hoping that whatever I get (maybe the Zoom H4) is still good enough for no and low-budget movie production. ANd for walking around and recording sound effects and background sounds to build up my own library. Note that there virtual (online) communities of people who specialize in recording ambient sounds (and nature sounds, e.g. "birders", etc.) They likely have recommendations, or at least on-point anecodotes of which microphones and recorders they have found to be most suitable for low-noise recording of low-level sounds like nature/ ambient/birds, etc. |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
I found the controls on the H4 to be a real pain to use (lots of
scrolling thru hard to see menus), but it looks like the H4n improves on that, and just about everything else. Also, you might want to ask this question on the 'rec.arts.movies.production.sound' newsgroup, because this question is more in their realm. -Neb On Jun 4, 2:24*pm, henrytj wrote: I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under $1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N). Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie work that they would like to provide? Thank you, Henry |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
henrytj wrote:
I have read on other forums where audio-philes state that they hear pre-amp noise from almost all lesser-expense equipment. Generally these recorders are engineered to sound best with their built-in microphones. I can say that for sure about the Zoom H2. With an external mic, you have to push the gain up so far that you get a rather poor signal-to-noise ratio when using the mic input. This is consistent with what Brad Linder talks about in his report. However, with the built-in mics, its performance is better than one can expect for the money. As to whether it will be good enough for a "low budget" production, well, low budget shouldn't automatically mean poor quality. If you're going to use an external mic, which I assume you are since you're talking pseudo fishpole, use a preamp with it, even an inexpensive mixer, and connect it to the recorder's line input. That's doing "low budget" right. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
nebulax wrote:
I found the controls on the H4 to be a real pain to use (lots of scrolling thru hard to see menus), but it looks like the H4n improves on that, and just about everything else. Scrolling through menus is a way of life with these things, but once you get it set up for a project, you don't have to change very much, very often. The thing I liked least about the H4 was that the buttons just didn't feel very good. The four-way rocker switch that's the primary navigation control feels sloppy, and so do the pushbuttons. The H4n borrows the membrane switches from the H2 and improves the display by making it larger and in color. I had the H4 that was floating around the Pro Audio Review staff for a couple of months and the buttons were all quite loose by then, plus the battery cover needed to be taped closed. My advice to anyone considering getting an H4 is either to get an H2 or study out the H4n, unless there's a compelling reason to get the H4 because of, for instance, the XLR mic inputs. But be aware that they're not all you might expect them to be. Better to get an H2 and an outboard preamp. -- If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
"henrytj" wrote in message ... I have been helping on some no-budget movie projects. Although, like everyone else, I would love to do camera, DP, ect. But the audio seems rather open. Some of the productions that I have helped with use the on camera mic. So I have gotten together with some friends and we have put together a kit (shotgut mic, painter pole converted to a boom pole, a lavaliere mic. I am considering getting a Zoom H4 to add to the kit for recording when I can't be cabled to the camera (like in a shot with a moving camera.) Yes, I read that the H4, and other under $1000 recorders have noise problems, but still this must be better that using the on camera mic. Also the H4 looks to be on clearance sale ($219 at B&H) as the next model seems to be out (H4N). Anyway, anyone have experience using the Zoom H4 for low budget movie work that they would like to provide? Thank you, Henry The pre-amp is noisy on the H4 but if you can supply a regulated 9v or strap a battery pack to the input it does help. Be very careful of wind noise,it is extraordinarly sensitive.I did not like the foam and made my own wind socks out of remnant teddy bear fur. The controls are a bit off a fiddle but you do get used to them and if you are careful (not pass it around too often) I guess it will last. "I guess" because I recently sold mine after 3yrs of use. It was still working well,had not fallen apart, but there are better units available now. Keith. |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
Mike Rivers writes: a "low budget" production, well, low budget shouldn't automatically mean poor quality. If you're going to use an external mic, which I assume you are since you're talking pseudo fishpole, use a preamp with it, even an inexpensive mixer, and connect it to the recorder's line input. That's doing "low budget" right. I"m with MIke here. dO it right, and while you're doing it right, lose the painter's pole and get your boom op the proper tool to work with. IF you're asking folks to do it for the experience of doing it at least provide them the proper equipment to learn how to actually do it. bOoming takes skill and a person might find they actually enjoy it if you give them the proper tool to work with. IT's a tough gig and can't be done well by a slacker. Make the job easier and show the person you expect to do it a bit of respect as well. tHey'll thank you. Might even say they had fun learning how to do something and come back tomorrow, or next time you have a day to shoot. Richard webb, replace anything before at with elspider |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
I"m with MIke here. *dO it right, and while you're doing it
right, lose the painter's pole and get your boom op the proper tool to work with. *IF you're asking folks to do it for *the experience of doing it at least provide them the proper equipment to learn how to actually do it. *bOoming takes skill and a person might find they actually enjoy it if you give them the proper tool to work with. IT's a tough gig and can't be done well by a slacker. *Make the job easier and show the person you expect to do it a bit of respect as well. *tHey'll thank you. *Might even say they had fun learning how to do something and come back tomorrow, or next time you have a day to shoot. Richard webb, replace anything before at with elspider Yes, having the ideal tool is great, but not always affordable. After moving home to be the caregiver for my elderly mother I ran my savings down to almost zero. I took some film production courses 30 years ago back in college and I want to do something with that before I shuffle off this mortal realm myself. So if I can use a $10 painter's pole, instead of a $200 pro item, well then that's what I'll do. Of course, if you want to throw some expensive pro stuff my way then I will be happy to catch it and make use of it. :-). Henry |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Zoom 4H digital recorder
Yes, having the ideal tool is great, but not always affordable. After
moving home to be the caregiver for my elderly mother I ran my savings down to almost zero. I took some film production courses 30 years ago back in college and I want to do something with that before I shuffle off this mortal realm myself. So if I can use a $10 painter's pole, instead of a $200 pro item, well then that's what I'll do. Of course, if you want to throw some expensive pro stuff my way then I will be happy to catch it and make use of it. :-). Henry I don't know if this would be more or less the same as the painter's pole you're using, but I once made a boom out of a light bulb changing pole from Home Depot - Bayco 16 Ft. Aluminum Telescopic Pole with 3 Sections Model LBC-1600M $26.79/Each http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100088453 -Neb |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
New Zoom H4N portable digital recorder | Pro Audio | |||
Portable recorder Zoom H2 vs. Olympus ds-40 | Pro Audio | |||
Zoom H4 digital recorder? | Pro Audio | |||
Zoom H-4 recorder? | Pro Audio | |||
FA: ZOOM MRS-1608CD Digital Multi-track Hard Disk Recorder | Pro Audio |