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anterm anterm is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor

Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology
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John L Stewart John L Stewart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anterm View Post
Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology
Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not difficult to come up with many other examples.

John
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Tabby Tabby is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:

Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better,
but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an
older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.

John


Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are
still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and
similar.

There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound
quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer
valve.


NT
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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 8, 10:39*pm, Tabby wrote:
On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.

wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:


Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better,
but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an
older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.


John


Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are
still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and
similar.


IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in
it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon
the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were
reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with
tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950.
nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered
down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside
out while also wearing out rather too soon.

Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous
for his electrostatic speakers.

The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but
the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it.

Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I
never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it
for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop
owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I
still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants
and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid
state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly.


There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound

quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer
valve.


Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening
levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so
good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to
design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps
because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete
rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they
peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job.
Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to
tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of
rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told
how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the
sandwich looks.

But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world.

I can then compete with the crap products by offering real
performance.

NT


Patrick Turner.

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Rockinghorse Winner[_6_] Rockinghorse Winner[_6_] is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

* It may have been the liquor talking, but
Patrick Turner wrote:

On May 8, 10:39Â*pm, Tabby wrote:
On May 8, 12:32Â*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.

wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:


Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better,
but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an
older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.


John


Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are
still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and
similar.


IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in
it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon
the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were
reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with
tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950.
nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered
down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside
out while also wearing out rather too soon.

Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous
for his electrostatic speakers.

The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but
the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it.

Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I
never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it
for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop
owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I
still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants
and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid
state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly.


There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound

quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer
valve.


Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening
levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so
good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to
design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps
because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete
rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they
peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job.
Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to
tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of
rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told
how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the
sandwich looks.

But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world.

I can then compete with the crap products by offering real
performance.

NT


Patrick Turner.


I own a Chinese made amp (designed in America), and it sounds delightful.
I'm not willing to pay double for an equivalent amp made in the USA.

*R* *H*
--
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Tabby Tabby is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 9, 1:00*am, Patrick Turner wrote:
On May 8, 10:39*pm, Tabby wrote:
On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:



Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better,
but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an
older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.


John


Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are
still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and
similar.


IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in
it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon
the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were
reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with
tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950.
nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered
down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside
out while also wearing out rather too soon.

Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous
for his electrostatic speakers.

The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but
the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it.

Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I
never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it
for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop
owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I
still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants
and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid
state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly.

There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound

quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer
valve.


Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening
levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so
good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to
design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps
because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete
rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they
peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job.
Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to
tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of
rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told
how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the
sandwich looks.

But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world.

I can then compete with the crap products by offering real
performance.

* NT

Patrick Turner.


So which valve amps do you like?


NT
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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 14, 3:33*am, Tabby wrote:
On May 9, 1:00*am, Patrick Turner wrote:





On May 8, 10:39*pm, Tabby wrote:
On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:
Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better,
but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an
older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.


John


Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are
still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and
similar.


IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in
it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon
the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were
reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with
tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950.
nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered
down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside
out while also wearing out rather too soon.


Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous
for his electrostatic speakers.


The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but
the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it.


Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I
never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it
for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop
owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I
still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants
and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid
state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly.


There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound
quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer
valve.


Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening
levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so
good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to
design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps
because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete
rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they
peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job.
Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to
tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of
rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told
how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the
sandwich looks.


But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world.


I can then compete with the crap products by offering real
performance.


* NT


Patrick Turner.


So which valve amps do you like?

NT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Not many.

Patrick Turner.
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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 9, 1:48*pm, flipper wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2011 17:00:41 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner





wrote:
On May 8, 10:39*pm, Tabby wrote:
On May 8, 12:32*pm, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.


wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:


Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better,
but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an
older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.


John


Age doesn't determine quality, it more determines price. There are
still some very good amplifiers from the 1950s about, like Quad II and
similar.


IMHO, Quad-II has a quite parsimonious amount amount of "very good" in
it. It is one of the poorest mass made amplifiers ever foisted upon
the public. But so were many others from 1950, Most mass makers were
reluctant to make gear which compares well to what we can do with
tubes now. The car industry also produced attrocious cars in 1950.
nearly everything you bought was butcherd quality, or quality watered
down. In 1955, everyone complained about cars rusting from the inside
out while also wearing out rather too soon.


Peter Walker didn't get famous because of his amps. He became famous
for his electrostatic speakers.


The Chinese make Quad amps now and has tried to make them better, but
the Quad 40 has many shortcomings; they just don't get it.


Things have not changed, the vast majority of stuff for sale is what I
never want to own. And the fact that slave labour in China makes it
for almost nothing so that when its sold in Oz after rapacious shop
owners here sell it at 20 times the Chinese factory gate price, I
still don't want it. The Chinese can make good underpants
and plastic reader glasses, but not tube amps. I also get many solid
state amps coming in for repairs, and made badly.


There are differences between valve and transistor amps' sound
quality, both have their pros and cons, and some people much prefer
valve.


Indeed. Both forms of amps should measure well at normal listening
levels. I've heard some tube amps which don't, and they don't sound so
good, and often its because the makers have NO IDEA about how to
design anything. I have had to totally re-wire a lot of brandname amps
because of the ignorance of the makers. Much tube gear is complete
rubbish and the prooduct of minds that were merely greedy, and they
peddle crap in an entrepreneuring effort which is a complete con job.
Many people have more money than good sense let alone any ability to
tell what really sounds well and slick promotion efforts get sales of
rubbsh. Some people woud gladly eat a **** sandwich if they are told
how ****in marvellous the sandwich is and shown how wonderful the
sandwich looks.


But I raise my hat to the **** producers of the world.


I can then compete with the crap products by offering real
performance.


Until such time as you build and sell 'real performance' for the same
or less price as the alleged 'crap' you're just an elitist curmudgeon.

AND I am PROUD to be an elitist curmudgeon......

You don' realise that chinese workers get less than anyone I know
here.

A quick Google gave me

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...2051_mz011.htm

I quote.....

""""" .......The cost of Chinese factory labor is a paltry 64 cents
an hour. Although that figure is rough, since it's pieced together
from sketchy statistics, it's still the most thorough estimate ever
compiled. It includes both wages and employer contributions for
benefits and social insurance. And it covers not just city factory
workers, who get the most attention, but the more numerous rural and
suburban factory workers as well......... """""

Average mean income per annum where I live in Canberra = $66,000 pa.
270 days work at 9 hrs a day = 2,430 hrs, so mean hourly rate = $27.00
per hour.

This by rough comparision is 42.4 times the wage of a Chinese worker.
Or +32.5 dB more wages.

Now I dunno about youse, but I refuse to work for 64 cents an hour. Of
course the cost of living is less in China but at the end of the day
if there are 200 man hours in a chinese amp, ( 5 men working for a
week ), the cost of wages is $128, and if materials in chinese prices
are also $128, then total cost of production = $256,and if you double
that for the profit made my whoever owns the chinese company, maybe
the Chinese Communist Party, then the export price might be $512.

Take a look at
http://www.avhub.com.au/index.php/Pr...amplifier.html
Quad 80 is shown for $14,000.
I searched around for Quad II-Forty and saw $6,500, but other places
showed they are unavailable,
maybe the Chinese have stopped production.

Seems to me the curmudgeons are the western country importers and shop
owners.

I raise my hat to such cumudgeons, I'd never sell a damn thing if they
cut their prices to what I consider reasonable. For awhile you could
buy 5050 stereo power amps from "Hong-Kong Hi-Fi", some bunch of
Chinese goons, and online for about $1,000. These POS amps are Jolida
quality. I had rewire two which were bought by local guys to make 'em
sing and stop smoking.

People here and everywhere just don't give a **** about Chinese slave
labour; oh yeah, nobody has trouble with social inequities all around
the world. Yet all thse ****wit know-alls try to tell us the Chinese
are giving us a mighty raw deal yet they are doing what we refuse to
do. Just imagine if the Chinese quit exporting cheap underpants and
gadgets. Your standard of living would plummet.

Patrick Turner.
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 9, 3:34*am, Patrick Turner wrote:

People here and everywhere just don't give a **** about Chinese slave
labour; oh yeah, nobody has trouble with social inequities all around
the world. Yet all thse ****wit know-alls try to tell us the Chinese
are giving us a mighty raw deal yet they are doing what we refuse to
do. Just imagine if the Chinese quit exporting cheap underpants and
gadgets. Your standard of living would plummet.

Patrick Turner


What did we do when underware and gadgets were made in the USA?
Somehow I was able to afford a pair of Haines boxer shorts.

Pt
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Big Bad Bob Big Bad Bob is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On 05/09/11 01:34, Patrick Turner so wittily quipped:
if there are 200 man hours in a chinese amp, ( 5 men working for a
week ), the cost of wages is $128, and if materials in chinese prices
are also $128, then total cost of production = $256,and if you double
that for the profit made my whoever owns the chinese company, maybe
the Chinese Communist Party, then the export price might be $512.


you'd need a design where the cost of the components is the majority of
YOUR cost, and it doesn't take 200 man hours to build. In fact, it
shouldn't take more than 1 or 2 (and that includes MACHINE hours)
implying "no point to point".

Of course that means 'circuit board with parts soldered in place' as ONE
of the 'components' that you'd assemble locally. A cost of $10 per
finished board assembly (to you) is _NOT_ an unreasonable estimate
(assuming volume is high enough).

Anyway, at that point the cost of parts will be 90% of the cost of the
unit. The rest will be the 10 minutes or so it would take a tech to
bolt it together, solder a small number of wires, plug in the tubes, do
a final test, and box it. And if you had pre-fab cables that plug
together "already soldered to the board" you could plug them into each
other, save time and $. Anyway, you might prefer soldering a few extra
interconnecting wires yourself, to avoid connector issues (or have the
boards ship with 'pigtails' already tinned to make that part easy). But
that takes more time. 30 seconds per wire, maybe?


Anyway, all of that needs capital, so I hope you know a rich guy who
likes tube amps.



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John L Stewart John L Stewart is offline
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Location: Toronto
Posts: 301
Default

I'm a Jeffersonian constitutional republican who believes in free will
and free trade but I'm not dumb enough to think it'll 'help' Chinese
workers to put them out of a job.

Yet all thse ****wit know-alls try to tell us the Chinese
are giving us a mighty raw deal


They are in dictating wages, price controls, and currency
manipulation, to name but a few.

yet they are doing what we refuse to
do.


hogswallop

Just imagine if the Chinese quit exporting cheap underpants and
gadgets. Your standard of living would plummet.


As opposed to going bankrupt?


Patrick Turner.
[/quote]

Seems T Jefferson had his very own slaves. Guess that is a form of 'free trade'.

Cheers, John
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Big Bad Bob Big Bad Bob is offline
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On 05/09/11 21:36, flipper so wittily quipped:
but at the end of the day
if there are 200 man hours in a chinese amp, ( 5 men working for a
week ), the cost of wages is $128, and if materials in chinese prices
are also $128, then total cost of production = $256,and if you double
that for the profit made my whoever owns the chinese company, maybe
the Chinese Communist Party, then the export price might be $512.


All ridiculous assumptions, not to mention the cost of doing business
is more than simply COGS.


my point was that the design would determine how many man hours you
need. there are really a LOT of variables in the cost of manufacturing
something. mfg engineers get paid HUGE bucks to figure out inexpensive
ways of building something (without compromising quality even). But if
you can have it all done via automation, so much the better. Then the
assembly production costs can become "COGS" eh? Final assembly and test
would take very little time for a reasonably experienced tech.

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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On 05/08/11 20:48, flipper so wittily quipped:
I can then compete with the crap products by offering real
performance.


Until such time as you build and sell 'real performance' for the same
or less price as the alleged 'crap' you're just an elitist curmudgeon.


there may be a way to build the 'real performance' stuff AND compete
with the 'crap products', but it might also involve a bit of 'slave
labor' - at least for some of the assemblies and components. But... if
you can get a working board design, then have some board shop make you a
zillion of them and ship them to an assembly shop to insert components
and wave-solder it, then ship you a completed board 'minus tubes', and
also have someone else stamp out chassis and ship THEM to you, you could
THEN hire a handful of people to bolt everything into place (about 10
minutes per amp, let's say), insert the tubes, run a final test, and
crate 'em for shipping.

I think you'd be able to compete with the 'low budget' people if you use
a reasonable design (low cost + good performance) and decent quality
components.


As for developing custom board designs, I did a test run a few months
back with a Canadian company that will do an overnight run of your board
designs (in groups of 2) for (typically) under $100 (minimum order size
2) including the shipping (you just need gerber files and a credit card,
upload via the web). Once the board's right you can have someone else
make lots of them. Of course there are other board shops that do this,
but I found them to be pretty easy to work with so I'll probably work
with them again. The software I have doesn't have any tube socket
layouts pre-done but a little work might yield 7 pin and 9 pin minis and
octals. Might have to surface solder them due to 'round holes only'.
Someone out there likely has the tube sockets 'ready to go'.

Anyway, hand-wiring terminal strips is too old school for a modern amp.
But you could actually have tube sockets exposed through a chassis to
make it look like it's old-school point to point if you wanted to, and
just use the boards to keep assembly costs down.

FYI - did the board design and schematics with open source apps, 'PCB
Designer' and 'gEDA' on a non-windows OS.

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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 13, 1:01*pm, flipper wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2011 00:35:40 -0700, Big Bad Bob

wrote:
On 05/08/11 20:48, flipper so wittily quipped:
I can then compete with the crap products by offering real
performance.


Until such time as you build and sell 'real performance' for the same
or less price as the alleged 'crap' you're just an elitist curmudgeon.


there may be a way to build the 'real performance' stuff AND compete
with the 'crap products',


Maybe or maybe not but that isn't the point. The point is Patrick
doesn't have a clue how to design and manufacture a product for the
mass market.


Patrick has a very clear idea about how to design and manufacture a
product for the mass market. But he doesn't want to, because he sees
it is an excellent recipe for him to lose all his possessions and
become a bankrupt. He'd have to get venture capital, and remove the
quality like the others do to compete, and investors won't invest
unless you give them everything you have in case you go broke, and the
history of tube amp makers shows so many manufacturer wannabes have
gone broke.

Patrick is aware Chinese labour costs are 64c per hour or therabouts,
and he knows he'd have to get stuff made in China to compete. Patrick
is sensible, and knows the risks, and is also 64, and he doesn't plan
to dive into terribly risky ventures producing niche retro mass mades
with serious entreprenurial schemes using his own money; one must use
only other people's money, and be 30 with nothing to lose, so the hard
work of making things happen can be done.


Which is not a criticism, per see, because most people don't and it
wouldn't be a problem if he didn't go around pontificating as if he
did.


Are, but there you go trying to copy the Pope, who pontificates at the
Vatican.....

Patrick Turner.

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On 05/12/11 20:01, flipper so wittily quipped:
On Tue, 10 May 2011 00:35:40 -0700, Big Bad Bob
wrote:

On 05/08/11 20:48, flipper so wittily quipped:
I can then compete with the crap products by offering real
performance.

Until such time as you build and sell 'real performance' for the same
or less price as the alleged 'crap' you're just an elitist curmudgeon.


there may be a way to build the 'real performance' stuff AND compete
with the 'crap products',


Maybe or maybe not but that isn't the point. The point is Patrick
doesn't have a clue how to design and manufacture a product for the
mass market.


yeah, that was pretty evident with the '100 man hours' part in the
earlier post. Even with point to point wiring, it would only take about
20 to build an amp (my gross estimate), and that's soldering at MY speed
(which isn't all that fast).

Which is not a criticism, per see, because most people don't and it
wouldn't be a problem if he didn't go around pontificating as if he
did.


yeah, but it does make for interesting follow-up discussions. The
various expertise of those who chimed in might be enough to actually
start something [who'd a thunk it?]. Now, where do I find the investors...

/me volunteers as CFO even though I hate accounting


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NX211 NX211 is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 8, 7:32*am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:

Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better,
but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an
older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.

John

--
John L Stewart


Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but
one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That
my friend is the answer.
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Fred[_13_] Fred[_13_] is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor

NX211 wrote:
On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:

Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is
better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube
electronics is an older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.

John

--
John L Stewart


Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but
one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That
my friend is the answer.


Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube.

Fred


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Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor

On Sun, 8 May 2011 11:06:36 -0700, "Fred" wrote:

NX211 wrote:
On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:

Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is
better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube
electronics is an older technology

Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.

John

--
John L Stewart


Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but
one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That
my friend is the answer.


Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube.

Fred


Yes, but if you blink you miss it.

d
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Fred[_13_] Fred[_13_] is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2011 11:06:36 -0700, "Fred" wrote:

NX211 wrote:
On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:

Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is
better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube
electronics is an older technology

Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.

John

--
John L Stewart

Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but
one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That
my friend is the answer.


Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to
make one sound like a tube.

Fred


Yes, but if you blink you miss it.


;-) Fred


d



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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 9, 4:57*am, (Don Pearce) wrote:
On Sun, 8 May 2011 11:06:36 -0700, "Fred" wrote:
NX211 wrote:
On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:


Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is
better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube
electronics is an older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.


John


--
John L Stewart


Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but
one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. *That
my friend is the answer.


Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube.


Fred


Yes, but if you blink you miss it.


Sometimes bjts explode if they try to get hot. Then you need to have
eyes wide shut.

Patrick Turner.

d- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -




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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On May 9, 4:06*am, "Fred" wrote:
NX211 wrote:
On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:


Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is
better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube
electronics is an older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.


John


--
John L Stewart


Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but
one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. *That
my friend is the answer.


Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube.

Fred- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


NO. I never been able to make a transistor glow. But they can easily
make fuses blow, after they have failed to become a sullen dull
useless bit of junk which conducts like wire in both directions.

Patrick Turner.
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Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead of solid-state transistor

On Sun, 8 May 2011 17:03:26 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner
wrote:

On May 9, 4:06*am, "Fred" wrote:
NX211 wrote:
On May 8, 7:32 am, John L Stewart John.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:


Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is
better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube
electronics is an older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.


John


--
John L Stewart


Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but
one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. *That
my friend is the answer.


Actually, it's easier to make a transistor glow like a tube than to make one sound like a tube.

Fred- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


NO. I never been able to make a transistor glow. But they can easily
make fuses blow, after they have failed to become a sullen dull
useless bit of junk which conducts like wire in both directions.

Patrick Turner.


Back in the 1970s when I was designing the first digital pagers, we
used a system called Molybdenum Gate Technology which would run off
2.5V. If you prised the lids off the chips, the FET drains would glow
when they conducted. You could actually follow what the logic of the
chip was doing this way.

d
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Big Bad Bob Big Bad Bob is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

On 05/08/11 05:58, NX211 so wittily quipped:
On May 8, 7:32 am, John L StewartJohn.L.Stewart.
wrote:
anterm;930852 Wrote:

Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better,
but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an
older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now& then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.

John

--
John L Stewart


Any good audio engineer can make a transistor sound like a tube but
one thing they can't do is make a transistor glow like a tube. That
my friend is the answer.


glowy bottles look cool, especially power tubes with that blue glow.
almost like a little nuke reactor. heh.

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Rockinghorse Winner[_6_] Rockinghorse Winner[_6_] is offline
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Default Why are vacuum tubes still used in audio amplifiers instead ofsolid-state transistor

* It may have been the liquor talking, but
John L Stewart wrote:


anterm;930852 Wrote:
Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better,
but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an
older technology


Same odd reason some people prefer to ride a horse now & then! Not
difficult to come up with many other examples.

John




--
John L Stewart


I'm not particularly attached to *tubes* as I am to my tube amp, whose
musical qualities have thus far prevented me from buying any other amp
(including SS), for fear it will not be as good. I am not one of those who
'collects' amps - one at a time for me!

The only part of the technology I don't like is the heat, which in the
summer can be a problem. That is why I am considering getting a SS low
powered amp for especially hot days. If it is an improvement over my tube
amp, all the better.

*R* *H*
--
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John L Stewart John L Stewart is offline
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Location: Toronto
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anterm View Post
Some audiophiles say that the sound quality in vacuum tubes is better, but I fail to see why, especially since vacuum tube electronics is an older technology
Many people build or are involved with all kinds of older technology. They perhaps do not perform as well as what is possible today. But they let ordinary folks try their inventiveness & perhaps satisfy some curiosities.

For myself the vacuum tube amplifier is a source of satisfaction not thru listening but rather the challenge of building something. That way I can perform lots of objective tests on the circuit with modern test equipment. Compare how it does with others of similar bent & with the old original stuff. Then I put it on the shelf. Done quite a few that way, then authored articles for publication. But I could not make the kind of living I like doing that. All just for fun & my curiosity. Most of them seldom listened to again at all.

I don't have enough money to build a race car. Or own a stable of antiques like Jay Leno. Can't afford a Shelby Mustang. But I do have an 87 Cobra I bought new back when I had a few extra bucks! Had it out the other day. It goes like Hell but drives like a truck.

So there, John


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