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Carey Carlan Carey Carlan is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

Forwarding a question asked of me.

What are the licensing requirements for music in podcasts? I assume it
would be similar to broadcast (BMI, ASCAP stuff).

The example given is a church podcasting their service including the
copyrighted anthems.
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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
Forwarding a question asked of me.

What are the licensing requirements for music in podcasts? I assume it
would be similar to broadcast (BMI, ASCAP stuff).

The example given is a church podcasting their service including the
copyrighted anthems.


ASCAP and BMI both had web-casting rates posted online
last time I checked (seems like it was ~ $250/year minimum
per clearinghouse).

Note that a significant % of sacred music may be licencecd
by a third org: SESAC.

Last time I checked CCLI was NOT participating in this arena
except for licensing distribution of physical recordings (cassette,
CD)



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Carey Carlan Carey Carlan is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

"Richard Crowley" wrote in news:edkpj9$514$1
@news01.intel.com:

"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
Forwarding a question asked of me.

What are the licensing requirements for music in podcasts? I assume it
would be similar to broadcast (BMI, ASCAP stuff).

The example given is a church podcasting their service including the
copyrighted anthems.


ASCAP and BMI both had web-casting rates posted online
last time I checked (seems like it was ~ $250/year minimum
per clearinghouse).

Note that a significant % of sacred music may be licencecd
by a third org: SESAC.

Last time I checked CCLI was NOT participating in this arena
except for licensing distribution of physical recordings (cassette,
CD)


Thanks. That's what I needed to know.
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Andy Andy is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:44:35 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote:

Forwarding a question asked of me.

What are the licensing requirements for music in podcasts? I assume it
would be similar to broadcast (BMI, ASCAP stuff).

The example given is a church podcasting their service including the
copyrighted anthems.


Depends on who owns the copywrite. If its "commerical" music then you
need to pay the ASCAP/BMI fees. Howver there are plenty of sources of
independent music you can play on podcasts. The one I use all the
time is http://music.podshow.com


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Carey Carlan Carey Carlan is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

Andy wrote in news:sddsf2lj9kcps6h701knt7l7a4timgqelu@
4ax.com:

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:44:35 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote:

Forwarding a question asked of me.

What are the licensing requirements for music in podcasts? I assume it
would be similar to broadcast (BMI, ASCAP stuff).

The example given is a church podcasting their service including the
copyrighted anthems.


Depends on who owns the copywrite. If its "commerical" music then you
need to pay the ASCAP/BMI fees. Howver there are plenty of sources of
independent music you can play on podcasts. The one I use all the
time is http://music.podshow.com


This is not pre-recorded music. The church uses copyighted sheet music for
their live-performance anthems and service music.


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Default Licensing music in podcast

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 03:00:24 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote:

Andy wrote in news:sddsf2lj9kcps6h701knt7l7a4timgqelu@
4ax.com:

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 20:44:35 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote:

Forwarding a question asked of me.

What are the licensing requirements for music in podcasts? I assume it
would be similar to broadcast (BMI, ASCAP stuff).

The example given is a church podcasting their service including the
copyrighted anthems.


Depends on who owns the copywrite. If its "commerical" music then you
need to pay the ASCAP/BMI fees. Howver there are plenty of sources of
independent music you can play on podcasts. The one I use all the
time is http://music.podshow.com


This is not pre-recorded music. The church uses copyighted sheet music for
their live-performance anthems and service music.


If its sheet music, it doesn't sound like an ASCAP/BMI issue, I would
suggest your write a letter to the people that produce / distribute
the sheet music and see what they have to say.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

Carey Carlan wrote:

This is not pre-recorded music. The church uses copyighted sheet music for
their live-performance anthems and service music.


Do they pay fees for the performance? Wherever that money goes is where
the money for podcasting rights go.

I'll also point out that there is plenty of excellent PD church music out
there.... and most of the really good stuff is PD anyway if you go searching
for older arrangements. The Magnificat is getting a little old these days
but it stands up against anything currently fashionable...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

Carey Carlan wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in

This is not pre-recorded music. The church uses copyighted sheet
music for their live-performance anthems and service music.


Do they pay fees for the performance? Wherever that money goes is
where the money for podcasting rights go.


No. I'd assume the live performance rights are included in the purchase
price of the music. I've never seen a church pay performance fees for
ordinary service music except when broadcast or recorded.


In that case, podcasting rights might be included as well. Look at the
fine print in the front of the songbook.

Perhaps I'm asking the wrong question. If a church podcasts its services,
do they owe anyone anything? There are no revenues generated (the usual
measure for ASCAP and BMI payments).


That depends on the fine print and what they signed.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Michael Wozniak Michael  Wozniak is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast


"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Carey Carlan wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote in

This is not pre-recorded music. The church uses copyighted sheet
music for their live-performance anthems and service music.

Do they pay fees for the performance? Wherever that money goes is
where the money for podcasting rights go.


No. I'd assume the live performance rights are included in the purchase
price of the music. I've never seen a church pay performance fees for
ordinary service music except when broadcast or recorded.


In that case, podcasting rights might be included as well. Look at the
fine print in the front of the songbook.

Perhaps I'm asking the wrong question. If a church podcasts its services,
do they owe anyone anything? There are no revenues generated (the usual
measure for ASCAP and BMI payments).


That depends on the fine print and what they signed.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


IIRC, ASCAP & BMI make no distinction between profit/non-profit. Perhaps
their only criteria is "use"? I'm not sure, tho.

Mikey
Nova Music Productions




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Carey Carlan Carey Carlan is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

"Michael Wozniak" wrote in
ink.net:

IIRC, ASCAP & BMI make no distinction between profit/non-profit.
Perhaps their only criteria is "use"? I'm not sure, tho.


I didn't say non-profit, I said non-revenue. From what I read on their
websites, ASCAP and BMI want a percentage of the advertising revenue (with
a $ minimum). Just making sure that if the podcast was not revenue
generating that the publishers still wanted their cut.
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Andy Andy is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 16:03:31 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote:


Perhaps I'm asking the wrong question. If a church podcasts its services,
do they owe anyone anything? There are no revenues generated (the usual
measure for ASCAP and BMI payments).


The best answer is...it depends. If the music is old enough to be in
public domain, then don't worry. If you get persimmion from the
rights holder, then you don't have to worry. ASCAP/BMI doesn't care
if you make money doing it or not.

Are you likely to get into trouble...probably not.

Our church podcasts (or is trying) its service, but I think they are
only doing the sermon for now.
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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...
Carey Carlan wrote:
This is not pre-recorded music. The church uses copyighted sheet music
for
their live-performance anthems and service music.


Do they pay fees for the performance? Wherever that money goes is where
the money for podcasting rights go.


Schools and houses of worship are exempt from performance
fees (at least in the US, dunno about other venues?).

However if your church choir went to the city concert hall and
performed the same music, performance fees would be due,
even if the performance was free to the audience.

I'll also point out that there is plenty of excellent PD church music out
there.... and most of the really good stuff is PD anyway if you go
searching
for older arrangements. The Magnificat is getting a little old these days
but it stands up against anything currently fashionable...


Beware that the original compositions may be PD, but is is
nearly impossible to find usable scores for sale that are not
copyright-protected new "editions". You are essentially
stuck with "Kalmus", the bane of musicians everywhere
(because they publish facimilies of old PD european scores
which would be difficult for modern musicians/singers to
read even if they were reproduced in focus. :-) Or you
could go to a major library and find a PD copy and make
your own "edition" or "engraving" using modern software
(like my favorite Sibelius). This is almost an FAQ in some
of the music forums.


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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
(Scott Dorsey) wrote :
This is not pre-recorded music. The church uses
copyighted sheet music for their live-performance
anthems and service music.


Do they pay fees for the performance? Wherever that
money goes is where the money for podcasting rights go.


No. I'd assume the live performance rights are included
in the purchase price of the music.


Unless explicitly stated in writing you can safely assume
that this is never the case. Performance rights depend on
many factors and are not covered by any kind of blanket
fee included in the price of the sheet music or score.

I've never seen a church pay performance fees for
ordinary service music


Right. Because educational institutions and houses of
worship are exempt from performance fees, at least
here in the USA. Some public venues (such as a
municipal concert hall/auditorium) may build-in the
public performance fees into the cost of renting the
hall. But some don't. You must check each case
independently.

except when broadcast or recorded.


Right. Because those are different uses and are not
exempt, even if performed by a school or church, etc.

Perhaps I'm asking the wrong question. If a church
podcasts its services, do they owe anyone anything?


Yes. They owe "broadcasting" fees to the copyright
owners. Note that this applies not only to the music
that your choir/organist performs, but also to the
pastor's sermon. I have heard of issues related to
the copyright status of recorded sermons (believe it
or not). If you had a lawyer working on this, they
might very well have you get a legal release from
your pastor for the sermon content, etc.

There are no revenues generated (the usual
measure for ASCAP and BMI payments).


Revenues play no role whatsoever in setting fees for
(for example "mechanical" rights) the right to distribute
audio recordings, i.e. CDs or cassettes. Mechanical
fees are set by law and you can buy mechanical licenses
online at Harry Fox for most popular music.

Revenues play *some* role in setting fees for public
performance, but fees are due even when tickets are
free.

Potential revenues play a large role in some other kinds
of fees like those charged by production music distributors,
(where the fee for using the same music in a national ad
campaign is maybe 10x as much as for a local radio spot)
or the negotiated price people get for using their music in
a major motion picture, etc ("synchronization" rights).

I believe that "podcasting" is no different than any other method
of distributing audio recordings (at least as far as the law is
concerned.) But they consider live streaming more like
traditional "broadcasting". Likely because the law seems
to always lag many years behind modern technology.

Note that IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and you would be
stupid to take any of this as any kind of advice except to
illustrate that you need professional legal help.




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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

"Richard Crowley" wrote...
"Carey Carlan" wrote ...
Perhaps I'm asking the wrong question. If a church
podcasts its services, do they owe anyone anything?


Yes. They owe "broadcasting" fees


Bzzzt. I was thinking you were doing live streaming.
"Podcasting" may be just simple mechanical rights?


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Default Licensing music in podcast

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:45:48 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

Yes. They owe "broadcasting" fees to the copyright
owners. Note that this applies not only to the music
that your choir/organist performs, but also to the
pastor's sermon. I have heard of issues related to
the copyright status of recorded sermons (believe it
or not). If you had a lawyer working on this, they
might very well have you get a legal release from
your pastor for the sermon content, etc.


How would it apply to the sermon?
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Julian Julian is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:45:48 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:


Note that IANAL (I am not a lawyer) and you would be
stupid to take any of this as any kind of advice except to
illustrate that you need professional legal help.


Richard, your analysis is good as usual.

This podcasting rights thing is very confusing. ASCAP seems to want a
piece of the action for any use of their stuff streamed, podcasted or
otherwise. I looked at the below link which confused me more than
anything else:

http://www.ascap.com/weblicense/feecalculation.html

It appears they base their fees on revenue generated by use of their
material and since there is a minimum $288 a year fee, I'd assume a
non-income generating organization would have to still nominally pay
$288 / year not to mention BMI fees which are even harder to
understand form the looks of their web site.

I do know a radio station I work for which has been one of the leaders
in music podcasts and I've spoken to the podcasting director about
copyright issues. He says that they draw up a contract with every
artist / author for rights before podcasting.

This seems to be in agreement with the information at the ASCAP site:

"ASCAP does not grant licenses on a per-song basis. Instead, ASCAP
offers blanket licenses that authorize the performance of any or all
of the millions of copyrighted musical works in the ASCAP repertory.
If you intend to make available one or a small number of songs and do
not believe an ASCAP blanket license is best suited for you, you may
contact each of the copyright owners (most typically the publisher)
for each of the songs you would like to use to request a direct
license"

Julian



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Brent Lievers Brent Lievers is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

Carey Carlan wrote:
What are the licensing requirements for music in podcasts?


The people at the Creative Commons have produced a podcasting legal guide.
I must confess that I haven't really read it, but the section on music may
be helpful:

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Podc...de#Using_Music

HTH,

Brent
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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default Licensing music in podcast

"Andy" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote:
Yes. They owe "broadcasting" fees to the copyright
owners. Note that this applies not only to the music
that your choir/organist performs, but also to the
pastor's sermon. I have heard of issues related to
the copyright status of recorded sermons (believe it
or not). If you had a lawyer working on this, they
might very well have you get a legal release from
your pastor for the sermon content, etc.


How would it apply to the sermon?


For purposes of copyright, a sermon is no different than
a newspaper column or a magazine article or the chapter
from a book. It just happens to be created by your pastor
and delivered orally every weedend from the pulpit. As
soon as your pastor creates it he/she owns the copyright
to it. (We are talking exclusively about the USA here.
Other venues likely have different laws/rules. YMMV.)

You are assuming that your pastor is giving you permission
to record and distribute the sermons, but legally you have
no proof of that without a written, signed release. Likely in
99% of cases this would make no difference.
But the lawyers worry about the 1%.




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Default Licensing music in podcast

On 7 Sep 2006 12:57:43 GMT, Brent Lievers
wrote:

Carey Carlan wrote:
What are the licensing requirements for music in podcasts?


The people at the Creative Commons have produced a podcasting legal guide.
I must confess that I haven't really read it, but the section on music may
be helpful:

http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Podc...de#Using_Music

HTH,

Brent


good link

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