On 2003/09/19 Ursus asked : which subwoofer for my system?

Most of you have ignored the thread and I have been the only one to lead
Mr. Ursus to the following link :

http://www.jupiter-audio.com/pages/subterfuge.html

Dave for example, you are the first defender of Trotsky's "avant-garde"
technology.
Why didn't you suggest Ursus the "Subterfuge" ?

Let have a look to the parameters :
* 100% Techno music means only one bass frequency.
* integration in a BOSE Acustomat II system. ;-)

I'm sure that the Subterfuge's performances would perfectly fit theses
specifications.

(LOL!)

--
Lionel J. M. Chapuis
Unemployed Clown

(signed this way because of pending libel suit against Krueger scheduled
to begin on 9/20/03 per Mr. Wheeler - and the need to possibly provide
supportive documentary evidence that Mr. George M. Middius' daily
incitement to hatred, suicide, slandering, insults, murder is the real
guilty of Mr.Wheeler's grievances.)

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:11:13 +0200, Lionel
lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr wrote:

On 2003/09/19 Ursus asked : which subwoofer for my system?

Most of you have ignored the thread and I have been the only one to lead
Mr. Ursus to the following link :

http://www.jupiter-audio.com/pages/subterfuge.html

Dave for example, you are the first defender of Trotsky's "avant-garde"
technology.
Why didn't you suggest Ursus the "Subterfuge" ?

Because I haven't heard it.

Let have a look to the parameters :
* 100% Techno music means only one bass frequency.
* integration in a BOSE Acustomat II system. ;-)

I'm sure that the Subterfuge's performances would perfectly fit theses
specifications.

(LOL!)

dave weil a écrit :
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:11:13 +0200, Lionel
lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr wrote:


On 2003/09/19 Ursus asked : which subwoofer for my system?

Most of you have ignored the thread and I have been the only one to lead
Mr. Ursus to the following link :

http://www.jupiter-audio.com/pages/subterfuge.html

Dave for example, you are the first defender of Trotsky's "avant-garde"
technology.
Why didn't you suggest Ursus the "Subterfuge" ?


Because I haven't heard it.


Let have a look to the parameters :
* 100% Techno music means only one bass frequency.
* integration in a BOSE Acustomat II system. ;-)

I'm sure that the Subterfuge's performances would perfectly fit theses
specifications.

(LOL!)


Dave, questions please.
What is your deal with Trotsky concerning his speakers evaluation ?
* You will make him a private report.
* You will publish your point on RAO
* You will be brutal
* You will be honest
* You will be brutally honest

dave weil a écrit :

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:11:13 +0200, Lionel
lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr wrote:


On 2003/09/19 Ursus asked : which subwoofer for my system?

Most of you have ignored the thread and I have been the only one to lead
Mr. Ursus to the following link :

http://www.jupiter-audio.com/pages/subterfuge.html

Dave for example, you are the first defender of Trotsky's "avant-garde"
technology.
Why didn't you suggest Ursus the "Subterfuge" ?


Because I haven't heard it.

For such integration ? Do you think it's really necessary ?


Let have a look to the parameters :
* 100% Techno music means only one bass frequency.
* integration in a BOSE Acustomat II system. ;-)

I'm sure that the Subterfuge's performances would perfectly fit theses
specifications.

(LOL!)




--
Lionel J. M. Chapuis
Unemployed Clown

(signed this way because of pending libel suit against Krueger scheduled
to begin on 9/20/03 per Mr. Wheeler - and the need to possibly provide
supportive documentary evidence that Mr. George M. Middius' daily
incitement to hatred, suicide, slandering, insults, murder is the real
guilty of Mr.Wheeler's grievances.)

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:48:03 +0200, Lionel
lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr wrote:

dave weil a écrit :
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:11:13 +0200, Lionel
lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr wrote:


On 2003/09/19 Ursus asked : which subwoofer for my system?

Most of you have ignored the thread and I have been the only one to lead
Mr. Ursus to the following link :

http://www.jupiter-audio.com/pages/subterfuge.html

Dave for example, you are the first defender of Trotsky's "avant-garde"
technology.
Why didn't you suggest Ursus the "Subterfuge" ?


Because I haven't heard it.


Let have a look to the parameters :
* 100% Techno music means only one bass frequency.
* integration in a BOSE Acustomat II system. ;-)

I'm sure that the Subterfuge's performances would perfectly fit theses
specifications.

(LOL!)


Dave, questions please.
What is your deal with Trotsky concerning his speakers evaluation ?

He agreed to send them to me at his own expense. I agreed to listen to
them and evaluate them. He is also sending me some stands, as I don't
have speakers that need stands currently.

* You will make him a private report.

I might occasionally tell him of any issues that I find as I evaluate
them. These private comments will be mentioned in my final comments
here on RAO, as will any pertinent answers or comments that he gives
in return.

* You will publish your point on RAO

Well, that's the point, right? I'm not in the market for $1500
speakers, so I'm not particularly doing it for myself, except maybe to
satisfy a little curiosity. After all, who wouldn't want to check out
new speakers in their home without having to buy them?

* You will be brutal

No I won't. I'll be as fair as I can.

* You will be honest

I will be as honest as I can.

* You will be brutally honest

Yes, of course. As most people on RAO have found out, I usually am.

If anything, I'll have to put Trotsky and my past behind us, because
if I acted as others have, based on that, they could be the best
speakers ever designed by the hand of man and I'd trash them. But I
don't play that game. I'll call it as I see it and Greg and everyone
else can decide if I've accurately described the qualities and the
worthiness of the speakers.

Since you seem interested, I'll disclose that I received the speakers
30 minutes before work on Saturday. I pulled out my Allison CD8s out
of the bedroom and am using them as stands at the moment. The Allisons
are actually exactly the same width and are black oak as well, so they
match up visually quite well g. The speakers currently sit in front
of my Klipsch Cornwalls, which means that they aren't *nearly*
positioned optimally, so, I'm simply listening to get a feel for their
general "sound", if you will.

So far, things I have listened to a

LP a new pressing of Kind of Blue - Miles Davis. unfortunately, this
pressing isn't very good, even out of the shrink wrap.

LP Atom Heart Mother - Pink Floyd - Mobile Fidelity

LP Kate Bush - Hounds of Love

LP Johnny Cash - Cash

LP Robin Lane and the Chartbusters - Imitation Life

CD - Crowded House - Crowded House (1st LP - not particularly well
mastered to CD)

LP - Elvis Costello - Spike

LP - Flim and the BBs - Tricycle (Exclusive Selected Analog Records
Boxed Pressing)

CD Nine Inch Nails - Head Like A Hole

CD - Brahams Concerto in D - Heifetz/Reiner

I am *not* listening through what anyone would consider "audiophile
gear". I'm currently using a Denon 2801 AV receiver, a ProJect One
turntable with a Grado Black and a Sony 200 disc CD player. I will, in
the future use a Theat ProGen 3 and EAD T7000 transport as well as
good French Micromega Stage 5 CD player. I will also drag out my
Fisher X202b integrated tube amp as well.

Here is my plan. When the stands come in, I move out the Cornwalls and
position the speakers as best I can. There will always be a TV between
them as I'm not going to go to the trouble of pulling it out. I will
then listen extensively, switching equipment over time as is
convenient. After I've done that, I will hook up my Allison CD8s and
listen to them. Since they have to be near the rear wall, they will be
the first to be compared. This will especially be interesting since
they have a wide-dispersion tweeter and the same size woofer. They
are, however, a three-way design and it will be interesting to compare
and contrast. I also have a lot of listening hours with them over an
almost 15 year period, in a wide variety of rooms and systems, so I
know intimately what they sound like. since they will have to be in a
different postion than the Europas, I will likely be able to A/B them.

After I do that, I will move the other speakers out and move the
Cornwalls back in and reaquaint myself with them. After I do that, I
will listen to the Europas one more time but I won't be able to A/B
them due to the bulk of the Cornwalls.

I will obviously describe the dimensions of the room and I will also
give the Europas a spin in the bedroom as well, using the Fisher amp.
I won't likely be doing comparisons with the other speakers in there
though.

Up to now, I haven't had a lot of time to listen, what with work, the
football game yesterday, etc. So, I've listened to bits of all of the
above. I haven't really wanted to listen super critically until I get
them set up properly either.

However, my initial impressions are quite favorable. They certainly
don't stink, even in a sub-optimal placement.

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:50:51 +0200, Lionel
lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr wrote:

Why didn't you suggest Ursus the "Subterfuge" ?


Because I haven't heard it.

For such integration ? Do you think it's really necessary ?

Yes. I try not to recommend things I haven't personally heard. Nor do
I diss them either.

dave weil a écrit :
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:48:03 +0200, Lionel
lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr wrote:


dave weil a écrit :

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:11:13 +0200, Lionel
lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr wrote:



On 2003/09/19 Ursus asked : which subwoofer for my system?

Most of you have ignored the thread and I have been the only one to lead
Mr. Ursus to the following link :

http://www.jupiter-audio.com/pages/subterfuge.html

Dave for example, you are the first defender of Trotsky's "avant-garde"
technology.
Why didn't you suggest Ursus the "Subterfuge" ?


Because I haven't heard it.



Let have a look to the parameters :
* 100% Techno music means only one bass frequency.
* integration in a BOSE Acustomat II system. ;-)

I'm sure that the Subterfuge's performances would perfectly fit theses
specifications.

(LOL!)


Dave, questions please.
What is your deal with Trotsky concerning his speakers evaluation ?


He agreed to send them to me at his own expense. I agreed to listen to
them and evaluate them. He is also sending me some stands, as I don't
have speakers that need stands currently.


* You will make him a private report.


I might occasionally tell him of any issues that I find as I evaluate
them. These private comments will be mentioned in my final comments
here on RAO, as will any pertinent answers or comments that he gives
in return.


* You will publish your point on RAO


Well, that's the point, right? I'm not in the market for $1500
speakers, so I'm not particularly doing it for myself, except maybe to
satisfy a little curiosity. After all, who wouldn't want to check out
new speakers in their home without having to buy them?


* You will be brutal


No I won't. I'll be as fair as I can.


* You will be honest


I will be as honest as I can.


* You will be brutally honest


Yes, of course. As most people on RAO have found out, I usually am.

If anything, I'll have to put Trotsky and my past behind us, because
if I acted as others have, based on that, they could be the best
speakers ever designed by the hand of man and I'd trash them. But I
don't play that game. I'll call it as I see it and Greg and everyone
else can decide if I've accurately described the qualities and the
worthiness of the speakers.

Since you seem interested, I'll disclose that I received the speakers
30 minutes before work on Saturday. I pulled out my Allison CD8s out
of the bedroom and am using them as stands at the moment. The Allisons
are actually exactly the same width and are black oak as well, so they
match up visually quite well g. The speakers currently sit in front
of my Klipsch Cornwalls, which means that they aren't *nearly*
positioned optimally, so, I'm simply listening to get a feel for their
general "sound", if you will.

So far, things I have listened to a

LP a new pressing of Kind of Blue - Miles Davis. unfortunately, this
pressing isn't very good, even out of the shrink wrap.

LP Atom Heart Mother - Pink Floyd - Mobile Fidelity

LP Kate Bush - Hounds of Love

LP Johnny Cash - Cash

LP Robin Lane and the Chartbusters - Imitation Life

CD - Crowded House - Crowded House (1st LP - not particularly well
mastered to CD)

LP - Elvis Costello - Spike

LP - Flim and the BBs - Tricycle (Exclusive Selected Analog Records
Boxed Pressing)

CD Nine Inch Nails - Head Like A Hole

CD - Brahams Concerto in D - Heifetz/Reiner

I am *not* listening through what anyone would consider "audiophile
gear". I'm currently using a Denon 2801 AV receiver, a ProJect One
turntable with a Grado Black and a Sony 200 disc CD player. I will, in
the future use a Theat ProGen 3 and EAD T7000 transport as well as
good French Micromega Stage 5 CD player. I will also drag out my
Fisher X202b integrated tube amp as well.

Here is my plan. When the stands come in, I move out the Cornwalls and
position the speakers as best I can. There will always be a TV between
them as I'm not going to go to the trouble of pulling it out. I will
then listen extensively, switching equipment over time as is
convenient. After I've done that, I will hook up my Allison CD8s and
listen to them. Since they have to be near the rear wall, they will be
the first to be compared. This will especially be interesting since
they have a wide-dispersion tweeter and the same size woofer. They
are, however, a three-way design and it will be interesting to compare
and contrast. I also have a lot of listening hours with them over an
almost 15 year period, in a wide variety of rooms and systems, so I
know intimately what they sound like. since they will have to be in a
different postion than the Europas, I will likely be able to A/B them.

After I do that, I will move the other speakers out and move the
Cornwalls back in and reaquaint myself with them. After I do that, I
will listen to the Europas one more time but I won't be able to A/B
them due to the bulk of the Cornwalls.

I will obviously describe the dimensions of the room and I will also
give the Europas a spin in the bedroom as well, using the Fisher amp.
I won't likely be doing comparisons with the other speakers in there
though.

Up to now, I haven't had a lot of time to listen, what with work, the
football game yesterday, etc. So, I've listened to bits of all of the
above. I haven't really wanted to listen super critically until I get
them set up properly either.

However, my initial impressions are quite favorable. They certainly
don't stink, even in a sub-optimal placement.

Ok ! I Wish you will have some fun to do that.

Lionel