Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Oily Tartlet wrote:

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:30:40 +0200, Lionel Chapuis
wrote:



Dogs eat dogs


I'm sorry, but I can't stand to see your lever of pulvarity to
Englash the lauginage.


A French Krueger--how unclean can you get?


You know I try to be nice with you Singh, and your basic nature always
screws things up. But what should one expect from a second-rate midwest
clone of Middius?


Come on, Arny, you have to expect me to get a few licks in for old
times' sake. I haven't even misspelled your name once, for example.

Bob Morein wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"trotsky" wrote in message



Bob Morein wrote:

"trotsky" wrote in message
. earthlink.net...

While the speakers were still breaking in, I thought about trying
felt around the tweeter. After enough time had passed, though, I
was shocked at how sweet sounding the tweeter became. If it's not
broke, don't fix it.

You don't understand the issue. The felt ring has nothing to do with
coloration. It causes the tweeter to act more like the ideal point
radiator.

No, cabinet diffraction causes frequency response aberrations.

Since each guy is about half right and half wrong, this could prove to be
the start of a lasting hatred.

;-)


There already is .
You are correct, and so is Trotsky in his correction. Diffraction causes
comb filtering, which is one way of looking at the disorganized mess
produced by Trotsky's hard baffle.
So I amend my claim to simply state that felt, or an attractive material,
makes things better.

Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice subcontracted parts
provide little differentiation, and unless the design has been thoroughly
tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a turntable, and lots of experience,
holds little chance of technical equality with products from larger
companies, even if their drivers are not quite as good.

Felt could have made a distinction but it doesn't fit into his marketing
scheme.


As ever, Bob, the best test you can give a speaker is listening. And
unless you have a pretty good concept of what musicality in a
loudspeaker means, all the quasi-anechoic methods in the world aren't
going to help.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Bob Morein" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"trotsky" wrote in message



Bob Morein wrote:

"trotsky" wrote in message
.earthlink.net...

While the speakers were still breaking in, I thought about trying
felt around the tweeter. After enough time had passed, though, I
was shocked at how sweet sounding the tweeter became. If it's not
broke, don't fix it.

You don't understand the issue. The felt ring has nothing to do
with coloration. It causes the tweeter to act more like the ideal
point radiator.

No, cabinet diffraction causes frequency response aberrations.

Since each guy is about half right and half wrong, this could prove
to be the start of a lasting hatred.

;-)


There already is .


Oh dear, my registry of RAO feuds had become out-fo-date.



You are correct, and so is Trotsky in his correction. Diffraction
causes comb filtering, which is one way of looking at the
disorganized mess produced by Trotsky's hard baffle.


Oh here we go again. Sooner or later the discussion had to move from Singh's
web site to the actual performance of Singh's loudspeaker products.


So I amend my claim to simply state that felt, or an attractive
material, makes things better.


..at least some of the time.


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice
subcontracted parts provide little differentiation,


True.

It does help to have a superior product to back up the brave-sounding prose.


and unless the
design has been thoroughly tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a
turntable, and lots of experience, holds little chance of technical
equality with products from larger companies, even if their drivers
are not quite as good.


But are these drivers really any better?

Two key parameters for low frequency drivers for small speakers are Xmax and
smoothness of response near the crossover frequency.

http://www.madisound.com/silverflute.html gives me no comfort in either
area.

As far as the tweeters go, here's a pretty credible-looking comparative
look:

http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-4.php3

Like the reviewer, I see the YAG-20 as being underspecified.

A lot of the success of Jupiter audio's full-range product rests in the
design of its crossover, at which point the supporting website text gets
really well, underspecified.

There's that word again!


Krueger, at the risk of overstating the obvious, you and Bob Morion are
hardly the target audience for my speakers. Now don't make me take the
kid gloves off.

Girth wrote:
Girth wrote:


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice subcontracted parts
provide little differentiation, and unless the design has been thoroughly
tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a turntable, and lots of experience,
holds little chance of technical equality with products from larger
companies, even if their drivers are not quite as good.

I'm trying to recall the name of the speaker builder who has become
very successful in recent times for the kits (and builds?) he
produces, many listeners claiming they beat commercial designs many
times the price. This guy had some noval marketing ideas, such as
circulating a set of the demo speakers between people shipping point
to point.


Ellis Audio! Worth a look, Greg.

http://www.ellisaudio.com/


Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, the speaker looks like every DIY
speaker I see being touted on various audio forums. I will read up on
his marketing concepts, though.

Girth wrote:
"Bob Morein" wrote:


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice subcontracted parts
provide little differentiation, and unless the design has been thoroughly
tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a turntable, and lots of experience,
holds little chance of technical equality with products from larger
companies, even if their drivers are not quite as good.


I'm trying to recall the name of the speaker builder who has become
very successful in recent times for the kits (and builds?) he
produces, many listeners claiming they beat commercial designs many
times the price. This guy had some noval marketing ideas, such as
circulating a set of the demo speakers between people shipping point
to point.

I think they guys running Ellis Audio and the one running Shamrock Audio
(both use simmilar designs and ship the speaker set around techniques)
both have a lot of experience. They also have insane amounts of testing
and math and experience in building custom cabinets and crossovers.

They definately are the exception to the rule.

Girth wrote:
Girth wrote:


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice subcontracted parts
provide little differentiation, and unless the design has been thoroughly
tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a turntable, and lots of experience,
holds little chance of technical equality with products from larger
companies, even if their drivers are not quite as good.

I'm trying to recall the name of the speaker builder who has become
very successful in recent times for the kits (and builds?) he
produces, many listeners claiming they beat commercial designs many
times the price. This guy had some noval marketing ideas, such as
circulating a set of the demo speakers between people shipping point
to point.


Ellis Audio! Worth a look, Greg.

http://www.ellisaudio.com/

Note the incredible detail on the tech side on his pages. That's
how he goes a long ways towards getting rid of the guy in the
garage picture in most people's minds.

And - as far as I can tell - all his technical talk and tweaks
he's tried make sense on paper.

trotsky wrote:


Girth wrote:

Girth wrote:


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice
subcontracted parts
provide little differentiation, and unless the design has been
thoroughly
tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a turntable, and lots of
experience,
holds little chance of technical equality with products from larger
companies, even if their drivers are not quite as good.


I'm trying to recall the name of the speaker builder who has become
very successful in recent times for the kits (and builds?) he
produces, many listeners claiming they beat commercial designs many
times the price. This guy had some noval marketing ideas, such as
circulating a set of the demo speakers between people shipping point
to point.



Ellis Audio! Worth a look, Greg.
http://www.ellisaudio.com/



Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, the speaker looks like every DIY
speaker I see being touted on various audio forums. I will read up on
his marketing concepts, though.

Go to:
http://www.shamrockaudio.com/eire.htm
Note the $2995 price. This speaker is virutally identical in sound to
the Ellis Audio offering. Why the pric difference? One is a company
and one is a guy who isn't interested in making a profit. Many people
agree they sound very close to each other.

You can't possibly beat his marketing concepts, because he isn't
playing that game or trying to make a living off of his work.
(much like say, the guy who builds telescopes in his free time - some
fine examples are out there that would cost thousands more on the open
market)

Is the Shamrock Audio worth $2995? IMO, no. There are better speakers
out there for much less money from Tannoy, Ke5f, Jeseph Audio, and
others. Is the Ellis Audio good for its price? Absolutely. He's
making a $1300 speaker that sounds great. He's making no profit on it,
though, because he lacks the economics of scale and discounts that the
big manufacturers would have. They could probably build it for $500
their cost.(minus the gorgeous laquer finish he does as an option)

They'd sell it for $1500 MSRP and on sale for $1300 or so. Hence,
it's not a bad speaker for the price compared to the big boys.

Note - his claims that it sounds better than $2500 speakers are
marketing, honestly. Compared to DIY type offerings like the Eire,
sure. Compared to a pair of Tannoys(real ones - not Saturns) or
Joseph Audio or some B&W towers? Um... No.

To Trotsky:
I'd see if you could get a listen to his speakers in person.
Bring yours for a side-by-side comparison.

Works out bugs - or maybe if yours is better, help him do
the same. Everyone wins and gets a better speakers.

in article , Joseph Oberlander at
wrote on 9/3/03 12:44 PM:

Go to:
http://www.shamrockaudio.com/eire.htm
Note the $2995 price. This speaker is virutally identical in sound to
the Ellis Audio offering. Why the pric difference? One is a company
and one is a guy who isn't interested in making a profit. Many people
agree they sound very close to each other.

How do you know this? Have you listened to both side by side and couldn't
tell the difference-or are you just speculating? I can see many reasons why
those 2 systems wouldn't sound anything like each other.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Girth wrote:

Girth wrote:


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice
subcontracted parts
provide little differentiation, and unless the design has been
thoroughly
tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a turntable, and lots of experience,
holds little chance of technical equality with products from larger
companies, even if their drivers are not quite as good.


I'm trying to recall the name of the speaker builder who has become
very successful in recent times for the kits (and builds?) he
produces, many listeners claiming they beat commercial designs many
times the price. This guy had some noval marketing ideas, such as
circulating a set of the demo speakers between people shipping point
to point.



Ellis Audio! Worth a look, Greg.
http://www.ellisaudio.com/


Note the incredible detail on the tech side on his pages. That's
how he goes a long ways towards getting rid of the guy in the
garage picture in most people's minds.


AYOC? A generic website with generic pictures and a note saying,
"Sorry, guys, all my stuff is in boxes right now" is okay because he
spent some quality time with some meters?

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
trotsky wrote:



Girth wrote:

Girth wrote:


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice
subcontracted parts
provide little differentiation, and unless the design has been
thoroughly
tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a turntable, and lots of
experience,
holds little chance of technical equality with products from larger
companies, even if their drivers are not quite as good.



I'm trying to recall the name of the speaker builder who has become
very successful in recent times for the kits (and builds?) he
produces, many listeners claiming they beat commercial designs many
times the price. This guy had some noval marketing ideas, such as
circulating a set of the demo speakers between people shipping point
to point.




Ellis Audio! Worth a look, Greg.
http://www.ellisaudio.com/




Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, the speaker looks like every DIY
speaker I see being touted on various audio forums. I will read up on
his marketing concepts, though.


Go to:
http://www.shamrockaudio.com/eire.htm
Note the $2995 price. This speaker is virutally identical in sound to
the Ellis Audio offering.


You've heard this difference, or did the meters and measurements do the
listening for you?


Why the pric difference? One is a company
and one is a guy who isn't interested in making a profit. Many people
agree they sound very close to each other.


Can I have their names? And do you really expect a guy that isn't
interested in making money to be around to service his product down the
line?


You can't possibly beat his marketing concepts, because he isn't
playing that game or trying to make a living off of his work.
(much like say, the guy who builds telescopes in his free time - some
fine examples are out there that would cost thousands more on the open
market)


Telescopes. Got it. And if you get a good one I'll bet you can see
Jupiter!


Is the Shamrock Audio worth $2995? IMO, no.


If it's got a solid wood baffle that's pretty rare. I'm sure you've got
a point, though.


There are better speakers
out there for much less money from Tannoy, Ke5f, Jeseph Audio, and
others. Is the Ellis Audio good for its price? Absolutely. He's
making a $1300 speaker that sounds great. He's making no profit on it,
though, because he lacks the economics of scale and discounts that the
big manufacturers would have. They could probably build it for $500
their cost.(minus the gorgeous laquer finish he does as an option)


Did you buy a pair, then? If not, why not?


They'd sell it for $1500 MSRP and on sale for $1300 or so. Hence,
it's not a bad speaker for the price compared to the big boys.

Note - his claims that it sounds better than $2500 speakers are
marketing, honestly. Compared to DIY type offerings like the Eire,
sure. Compared to a pair of Tannoys(real ones - not Saturns) or
Joseph Audio or some B&W towers? Um... No.


I really don't see your point, even a little bit.


To Trotsky:
I'd see if you could get a listen to his speakers in person.
Bring yours for a side-by-side comparison.


Bring them where? Are you translating your post from another language?


Works out bugs - or maybe if yours is better, help him do
the same. Everyone wins and gets a better speakers.


Yes. I can see why you'd need those telescopes.

Girth wrote:
Joseph Oberlander wrote:


You can't possibly beat his marketing concepts, because he isn't
playing that game or trying to make a living off of his work.


I've just been having a closer look at the website, Greg I didn't
realise he was doing this for free. Still, I rate the idea of having a
demo pair 'doing the rounds'.


I like this idea too.

"trotsky" wrote

http://www.jupiter-audio.com

And be brutally honest.

I see the site was built with Adobe GoLive 6... nice
program. Where are your META NAME: Keywords, description and
revisit-after? You'll need these tags
for best search engine placement. What is your
geographic service area for your products?

"trotsky" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Bob Morein" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

"trotsky" wrote in message



Bob Morein wrote:

"trotsky" wrote in message
hlink.net...

While the speakers were still breaking in, I thought about
trying felt around the tweeter. After enough time had passed,
though, I was shocked at how sweet sounding the tweeter became.
If it's not broke, don't fix it.

You don't understand the issue. The felt ring has nothing to do
with coloration. It causes the tweeter to act more like the ideal
point radiator.

No, cabinet diffraction causes frequency response aberrations.

Since each guy is about half right and half wrong, this could prove
to be the start of a lasting hatred.

;-)


There already is .


Oh dear, my registry of RAO feuds had become out-fo-date.



You are correct, and so is Trotsky in his correction. Diffraction
causes comb filtering, which is one way of looking at the
disorganized mess produced by Trotsky's hard baffle.


Oh here we go again. Sooner or later the discussion had to move from
Singh's web site to the actual performance of Singh's loudspeaker
products.


So I amend my claim to simply state that felt, or an attractive
material, makes things better.


..at least some of the time.


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice
subcontracted parts provide little differentiation,


True.

It does help to have a superior product to back up the
brave-sounding prose.


and unless the
design has been thoroughly tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a
turntable, and lots of experience, holds little chance of technical
equality with products from larger companies, even if their drivers
are not quite as good.


But are these drivers really any better?

Two key parameters for low frequency drivers for small speakers are
Xmax and smoothness of response near the crossover frequency.

http://www.madisound.com/silverflute.html gives me no comfort in
either area.

As far as the tweeters go, here's a pretty credible-looking
comparative look:

http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-4.php3

Like the reviewer, I see the YAG-20 as being underspecified.

A lot of the success of Jupiter audio's full-range product rests in
the design of its crossover, at which point the supporting website
text gets really well, underspecified.

There's that word again!


Krueger, at the risk of overstating the obvious, you and Bob Morion
are hardly the target audience for my speakers.

Right, our IQs are in the triple-digits.

Now don't make me
take the kid gloves off.

Singh, quit putting on airs. You don't own any figurative "kid gloves".
Probably don't own any real ones, either.

trotsky said:

I haven't even misspelled your name once, for example.

Rarely does anybody actually misspell it. I, for one, have never
"misspelled" it.

Oh, right, I forgot the etymology of the name "Krooger".

I believe I coined that spelling. Do you need some quality time with a
dictionary, maybe?

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Krueger, at the risk of overstating the obvious, you and Bob Morion
are hardly the target audience for my speakers.


Right, our IQs are in the triple-digits.


Dude, you're not supposed to count the decimal points.


Now don't make me
take the kid gloves off.


Singh, quit putting on airs. You don't own any figurative "kid gloves".
Probably don't own any real ones, either.


But of course you do--and we won't go into what kid was used, either.

George M. Middius wrote:

trotsky said:


I haven't even misspelled your name once, for example.


Rarely does anybody actually misspell it. I, for one, have never
"misspelled" it.



Oh, right, I forgot the etymology of the name "Krooger".


I believe I coined that spelling. Do you need some quality time with a
dictionary, maybe?


No, but perhaps you could recount the story of how Krueger two different
spellings of his name on two different websites. Did the weasel even
have an explanation for this?

trotsky wrote:


Girth wrote:

trotsky wrote:


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice
subcontracted parts
provide little differentiation, and unless the design has been
thoroughly
tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a turntable, and lots of
experience,
holds little chance of technical equality with products from larger
companies, even if their drivers are not quite as good.


I'm trying to recall the name of the speaker builder who has become
very successful in recent times for the kits (and builds?) he
produces, many listeners claiming they beat commercial designs many
times the price. This guy had some noval marketing ideas, such as
circulating a set of the demo speakers between people shipping point
to point.


Ellis Audio! Worth a look, Greg.
http://www.ellisaudio.com/


Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, the speaker looks like every DIY
speaker I see being touted on various audio forums. I will read up
on his marketing concepts, though.



How important is the look? Having said that, the finish on Ellis's
speakers are by all accounts excellent.



No, I'm sure it is. In fact, I'm sure the speakers themselves are quite
good. But there's umpteen DIY posts where people have photos that are
just as generic looking, such that you really can't get a handle on how
the speakers are going to look in the flesh.

http://www.ellisaudio.com/FinishingWood.htm

Based upon his methods, I'd say he's doing it exactly right. Note how
he states elsewhere that he couldn't even get woodshops in his area
to even DO it as it was too labor intensive. 5-6 coats with the 0000
steel wool as a top finish is exactly right. Yes, it takes HOURS per
cabinet. The guy must have an obsession or arms of a bodybuilder
to do all that work. $200 more is a steal for that finish.

http://www.ellisaudio.com/finishcomments.htm
$700-$1000 for a cabinet at woodworking shop prices seems about right.

This is where he eats his profit. M0st companties would slap together
the cabinet for $200-$300 and be done with it.

trotsky wrote:

AYOC? A generic website with generic pictures and a note saying,
"Sorry, guys, all my stuff is in boxes right now" is okay because he
spent some quality time with some meters?


He recently moved from Colorado Springs(IIRC) to another state.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message

trotsky said:

I haven't even misspelled your name once, for example.

Rarely does anybody actually misspell it. I, for one, have never
"misspelled" it.

Oh, right, I forgot the etymology of the name "Krooger".

I believe I coined that spelling. Do you need some quality time with a
dictionary, maybe?


A dictionary, an English teacher, a volume of Wren and Martin and perhaps an
IQ test.

"Joseph Oberlander" wrote in message

Girth wrote:
Joseph Oberlander wrote:


http://www.ellisaudio.com/

Note the incredible detail on the tech side on his pages. That's
how he goes a long ways towards getting rid of the guy in the
garage picture in most people's minds.

And - as far as I can tell - all his technical talk and tweaks
he's tried make sense on paper.

The cynicism page made me laugh!! Ellis certainly cuts through the
BS.

Yes, he cuts the BS up into slices and tries to sell it to the hapless
reader.

Yeah.

Note how he obsesses about screws and types of glue and...

Well there's the brass screws he uses in his crossovers and the screw job he
gives anybody who actually believes his crap.

Exactly the sort of fine-tweaking that the big firms do and 95%
of the independants don't bother with.

That's because they have at least the foggiest notion of what science and
engineering is all about.

Small changes are important and the big boys(tm) know that.

It makes great advertising copy, if you have the stomach for that sort of
thing.

trotsky said:

I haven't even misspelled your name once, for example.


Rarely does anybody actually misspell it. I, for one, have never
"misspelled" it.



Oh, right, I forgot the etymology of the name "Krooger".


I believe I coined that spelling. Do you need some quality time with a
dictionary, maybe?


No,

Wrong answer.

but perhaps you could recount the story of how Krueger two different
spellings of his name on two different websites. Did the weasel even
have an explanation for this?

You sound like Mickey McBugEater. Who is "the weasel"?

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
trotsky wrote:


No, I'm sure it is. In fact, I'm sure the speakers themselves are
quite good. But there's umpteen DIY posts where people have photos
that are just as generic looking, such that you really can't get a
handle on how the speakers are going to look in the flesh.


http://www.ellisaudio.com/FinishingWood.htm

Based upon his methods, I'd say he's doing it exactly right. Note how
he states elsewhere that he couldn't even get woodshops in his area
to even DO it as it was too labor intensive. 5-6 coats with the 0000
steel wool as a top finish is exactly right. Yes, it takes HOURS per
cabinet. The guy must have an obsession or arms of a bodybuilder
to do all that work. $200 more is a steal for that finish.

http://www.ellisaudio.com/finishcomments.htm
$700-$1000 for a cabinet at woodworking shop prices seems about right.

This is where he eats his profit. M0st companties would slap together
the cabinet for $200-$300 and be done with it.


Again, I fail to see your point. Do you really think in depth
descriptions of wood finishing is a strong selling point? And do you
think selling speakers for less than they're worth is a good business model?

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
trotsky wrote:

AYOC? A generic website with generic pictures and a note saying,
"Sorry, guys, all my stuff is in boxes right now" is okay because he
spent some quality time with some meters?


He recently moved from Colorado Springs(IIRC) to another state.


Colorado Springs isn't a state, but I think I know what you're trying to
say.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Arny Krueger wrote:

"trotsky" wrote in message


Krueger, at the risk of overstating the obvious, you and Bob Morion
are hardly the target audience for my speakers.


Right, our IQs are in the triple-digits.


Dude, you're not supposed to count the decimal points.


An IQ with decimal places? It would take a real obsessive-compulsive to
imagine that!


Now don't make me
take the kid gloves off.

Singh, quit putting on airs. You don't own any figurative "kid
gloves". Probably don't own any real ones, either.


But of course you do


As in goat skin gloves, yes.


and we won't go into what kid was used, either.


The goat they came from was yours, Singh.


That one just whizzed right past you, didn't it. I guess I've still got it!

trotsky said:

Rarely does anybody actually misspell it. I, for one, have never
"misspelled" it.

Oh, right, I forgot the etymology of the name "Krooger".

I believe I coined that spelling. Do you need some quality time with a
dictionary, maybe?

No,

Wrong answer.

I take it you're conceding that on this point, the entire exchange
flew straight over your slopey little head.


but perhaps you could recount the story of how Krueger two different
spellings of his name on two different websites. Did the weasel even
have an explanation for this?

You sound like Mickey McBugEater. Who is "the weasel"?

Krueger, who else?

Sorry, does not compute. Weasels are cunning, crafty, and intuitive.
Krooger is none of the above. Try to get your anthropomorphism more in
tune with reality, please.

You anally follow his every exploit,

A bizarre accusation. What planet are you inhabiting now? And speaking
of "anally", what have you done with Jocasta?


surely you remember how he used a different spelling of his name when he posted to rahe.

Surely I don't. But since you do, is the point you're making that
Krooger is a hypocrite? What shocking news.


That's the etymology of the spelling "Krooger", right?

You have exited the remotest neighborhood of what sane people would
recognize as making sense.

Turn off the "Queer as Folk" tape and pay attention.

??

First you accuse me of being obsessed with Mr. ****, then you swing
around and accuse me of watching TV at the same time as I play on
Usenet.

Oh wait -- that was your grindingly desperate last call for the "I'm
better 'cause I fantasize about women" shot, right? You should get to
know StynchBlob. Aside from his inane hangups with "objectivity", his
cave-man politics, and the whole JEE-zus routine, you two should have
a merry dance to celebrate your alleged sexual "orientations".



Oh, one last thing -- it's reported that the biggest segment of QaF's
audience is straight women. If you knew any of those, you could
demonstrate your great sensitivity by watching the show with them and
screaming "dirty faggot!" every time the guys' clothes came off.

Oily Tartlet a écrit :
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:12:56 +0200, Lionel Chapuis
lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr wrote:


Are you a sockpuppet?



What do you mean ?
Which type there's here at least 5 to 10 different categories.


You're the tardiloquous teknonymy type.

--
Oily Tartlet

I hope in a first time that your name was an anagram of "dirty
toilet"... which could be funny on RAO. I'm little bit disappointed but
not srprised.


Lionel Chapuis
PS : time to play for you...

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:03:18 +0200, Lionel Chapuis
wrote:

I hope in a first time that your name was an anagram of "dirty
toilet"... which could be funny on RAO. I'm little bit disappointed but
not srprised.

Wasn't it Sartre who said 'Hell is other people'?

Lionel Chapuis
PS : time to play for you...

Don't break the spoon.

--
Oily Tartlet

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:58:10 +0200, Lionel Chapuis
wrote:

"L'enfer c'est les autres"
Yes you're right ! You read it ? Is it just a well-known sentence ?
Be careful to out of context misunderstanding.

It shØuld æ ì a çommonesqÜe sãyethpedìmentré.

--
Oily Tartlet

"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Arny Krueger wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message


Krueger, at the risk of overstating the obvious, you and Bob Morion
are hardly the target audience for my speakers.


Right, our IQs are in the triple-digits.

Greg, the felt is supposed to go on the front of the speakers, not in your
ears.

"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Girth wrote:
Girth wrote:


Greg will learn soon enough that a cute website and nice subcontracted
parts
provide little differentiation, and unless the design has been
thoroughly
tuned using quasi-anechoic methods, a turntable, and lots of
experience,
holds little chance of technical equality with products from larger
companies, even if their drivers are not quite as good.

I'm trying to recall the name of the speaker builder who has become
very successful in recent times for the kits (and builds?) he
produces, many listeners claiming they beat commercial designs many
times the price. This guy had some noval marketing ideas, such as
circulating a set of the demo speakers between people shipping point
to point.


Ellis Audio! Worth a look, Greg.

http://www.ellisaudio.com/


I'll take a demo set, providing they come with high quality binding posts
that are easily removable.

"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Joseph Oberlander wrote:
trotsky wrote:


No, I'm sure it is. In fact, I'm sure the speakers themselves are
quite good. But there's umpteen DIY posts where people have photos
that are just as generic looking, such that you really can't get a
handle on how the speakers are going to look in the flesh.


http://www.ellisaudio.com/FinishingWood.htm

Based upon his methods, I'd say he's doing it exactly right. Note how
he states elsewhere that he couldn't even get woodshops in his area
to even DO it as it was too labor intensive. 5-6 coats with the 0000
steel wool as a top finish is exactly right. Yes, it takes HOURS per
cabinet. The guy must have an obsession or arms of a bodybuilder
to do all that work. $200 more is a steal for that finish.

http://www.ellisaudio.com/finishcomments.htm
$700-$1000 for a cabinet at woodworking shop prices seems about right.

This is where he eats his profit. M0st companties would slap together
the cabinet for $200-$300 and be done with it.


Again, I fail to see your point. Do you really think in depth
descriptions of wood finishing is a strong selling point? And do you
think selling speakers for less than they're worth is a good business
model?

Be sure to advertise how many cans of Krylon you use on each.

Oily Tartlet a écrit :
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:58:10 +0200, Lionel Chapuis
wrote:


"L'enfer c'est les autres"
Yes you're right ! You read it ? Is it just a well-known sentence ?
Be careful to out of context misunderstanding.


It shØuld æ ì a çommonesqÜe sãyethpedìmentré.

--
Oily Tartlet

I was sure of that ! Read it again...

Girth wrote:
trotsky wrote:


No, I'm sure it is. In fact, I'm sure the speakers themselves are
quite good. But there's umpteen DIY posts where people have photos
that are just as generic looking, such that you really can't get a
handle on how the speakers are going to look in the flesh.


http://www.ellisaudio.com/FinishingWood.htm

Based upon his methods, I'd say he's doing it exactly right. Note how
he states elsewhere that he couldn't even get woodshops in his area
to even DO it as it was too labor intensive. 5-6 coats with the 0000
steel wool as a top finish is exactly right. Yes, it takes HOURS per
cabinet. The guy must have an obsession or arms of a bodybuilder
to do all that work. $200 more is a steal for that finish.

http://www.ellisaudio.com/finishcomments.htm
$700-$1000 for a cabinet at woodworking shop prices seems about right.

This is where he eats his profit. M0st companties would slap together
the cabinet for $200-$300 and be done with it.

Again, I fail to see your point. Do you really think in depth
descriptions of wood finishing is a strong selling point?


For some people, probably. Castle put a lot of emphasis on the wood
finishing in their brochures. That's not the reason I bought
Harlech's, nor why you bought Howard's, but certainly *some* customers
appreciate it.


The teak finish did prompt me to buy a teak cabinet. Regardless, the
guy that does my cabinets does an excellent job with the finishes, so I
think I have that base covered. Boon's question about exotic finishes
I'm sure will come up eventually, though.

George M. Middius wrote:

trotsky said:


Rarely does anybody actually misspell it. I, for one, have never
"misspelled" it.


Oh, right, I forgot the etymology of the name "Krooger".


I believe I coined that spelling. Do you need some quality time with a
dictionary, maybe?


No,


Wrong answer.


I take it you're conceding that on this point, the entire exchange
flew straight over your slopey little head.



but perhaps you could recount the story of how Krueger two different
spellings of his name on two different websites. Did the weasel even
have an explanation for this?


You sound like Mickey McBugEater. Who is "the weasel"?



Krueger, who else?


Sorry, does not compute. Weasels are cunning, crafty, and intuitive.
Krooger is none of the above. Try to get your anthropomorphism more in
tune with reality, please.


Et tu, Brute? Are we really going to have to have another discussion
about the vernacular?


You anally follow his every exploit,


A bizarre accusation. What planet are you inhabiting now? And speaking
of "anally", what have you done with Jocasta?


I knew that was coming. Sorry, but not every household shares your wont
for sexual dysfunction.


surely you remember how he used a different spelling of his name when he posted to rahe.


Surely I don't. But since you do, is the point you're making that
Krooger is a hypocrite? What shocking news.


No, the point I'm making is that you used to have a cute story at the
ready on how the permutation "Krooger" came up, and now you don't have
jack cheese.


That's the etymology of the spelling "Krooger", right?


You have exited the remotest neighborhood of what sane people would
recognize as making sense.


Right. So you just glossed over Oberlander's contributions.


Turn off the "Queer as Folk" tape and pay attention.


??

First you accuse me of being obsessed with Mr. ****, then you swing
around and accuse me of watching TV at the same time as I play on
Usenet.


I'm not accusing you of anything. I came back here after a four month
hiatus with all kinds of olive branches coming out of my ass, and you
appeared to be in a hurry to see if I've still got game. You tell me
what I'm supposed to think.


Oh wait -- that was your grindingly desperate last call for the "I'm
better 'cause I fantasize about women" shot, right? You should get to
know StynchBlob. Aside from his inane hangups with "objectivity", his
cave-man politics, and the whole JEE-zus routine, you two should have
a merry dance to celebrate your alleged sexual "orientations".


You're being too sensitive. (What new?) The only gay issue I'm ****ed
off about is the fact that Madonna got to stick her tongue in Britney's
mouth and not me.


Oh, one last thing -- it's reported that the biggest segment of QaF's
audience is straight women. If you knew any of those, you could
demonstrate your great sensitivity by watching the show with them and
screaming "dirty faggot!" every time the guys' clothes came off.


Or not.

Oily Tartlet wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:58:10 +0200, Lionel Chapuis
wrote:


"L'enfer c'est les autres"
Yes you're right ! You read it ? Is it just a well-known sentence ?
Be careful to out of context misunderstanding.


It shØuld æ ì a çommonesqÜe sãyethpedìmentré.


Flase calim.

Bob Morein wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Arny Krueger wrote:

"trotsky" wrote in message


Krueger, at the risk of overstating the obvious, you and Bob Morion
are hardly the target audience for my speakers.


Right, our IQs are in the triple-digits.

Greg, the felt is supposed to go on the front of the speakers, not in your
ears.


You attributed a quote from Krueger as a quote from me. Where did you
put your felt?

Oily Tartlet wrote:
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 01:16:18 GMT, trotsky wrote:


It shØuld æ ì a çommonesqÜe sãyethpedìmentré.


Flase calim.


From a pley, then. But mostly it shØuld æ ì a çommonesqÜe
sãyethpedìmentré.


Jrazu!

Oily Tartlet a écrit :
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 01:16:18 GMT, trotsky wrote:


It shØuld æ ì a çommonesqÜe sãyethpedìmentré.


Flase calim.


From a pley, then. But mostly it shØuld æ ì a çommonesqÜe
sãyethpedìmentré.

--
Oily Tartlet

Is this strange noise coming from your mouth, Stinky Toilet ?

From: trotsky

http://www.jupiter-audio.com


And be brutally honest.

Speakers for fat midgets?

Lionel Chapuis ventured:

You're the tardiloquous teknonymy type.

--
Oily Tartlet

I hope in a first time that your name was an anagram of "dirty
toilet"... which could be funny on RAO. I'm little bit disappointed but
not srprised.

Try "Artly Toilet"


GeoSynch