In article rochrist@REMOVETOEMAIL writes:

Christ, overreact again why don't you? No, you haven't slandered me. And I
never came within the same timezone of claiming that you did. You /have/
made a number of halfassed assertions about 'linux users' as though they
were some enormous monolithic organism that react as one, and frankly, its
kind of silly.

Well, that's the way it appears to this rec.audio.pro reader. I don't
recall a balanced response from a Linux responder that's recognized
the value of the "comfort zone" of buying a commercial application
that's used by a very wide community (not those who are computer users
first). Nobody's recognized the business side of using mainstream
commercial applications. It's just this "It's just as good as what
you're using so why not give it a try? over and over. At least that's
how I interpret enough of the posts so that it's the sense I get of
who's posting here.

I don't personally give a **** if you use Linux. In point of fact, /I/ don't
use Linux for my audio work. That doesn't mean that I don't have enormous
respect for it as a viable alternative to windows (which I also don't use
for my audio work), or that it might not be a viable solution for audio work
under the right conditions.

Well, that's fine. I don't have any objections to Linux either, and I
know people who use it on a regular basis for whatever it is that they
do. I just don't happen to know anyone who uses it for audio. I have
no objections to Macintosh computers, but I don't use one of those
either - however I know plenty of people who do use that platform for
audio applications. It's not who you know, it's what you care about.

What annoys ME is lazy generalizations and
blithe assumptions that windows is actually something other than a awfully
bloated, sloppy piece of innovationless work that generated virtually all of
its success due to being in exactly the right place, at exactly the right
time, with exactly the right set of utterly ruthless and cunning predators
running the company.

Up The Revolution! That went away in the 'sixties. Users shouldn't
care about how bloated Windows is or how successful a business
Microsoft is. It's there, it does what it needs to do, and most of the
time it doesn't cause problems. Unfortunately there are unscrupulous
people out there who exploit the weaknesses of the system and that's
what we hear most about. I'm sure that this would happen with any
popular operating system. Macs didn't used to get viruses. Can Linux
systems be far behind? It's (sub)human nature.

Trying a new operating system to see if you like it isn't like trying
a new food or a different brand of Scotch. A new OS is a considerable
investment in time and learning, and "I use it and you can get it for
free" isn't enough of a justification for most people to make the
switch. Yet "You haven't tried it so how do you know?" seems to be the
recurring theme here. I haven't tried it because I don't see any good
reason to. Can't you accept that and go back to your own world?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Bob Cain poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:

Noah Roberts wrote:

Talking about yourself in the third person is just weird.

You really should take up some other hobby than advocacy.
You do more harm than good for your cause.

I'll bet the cross-posting troll who started this thread is having a
good time.

--
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Lorin David Schultz poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:

"Noah Roberts" wrote in message

"Compatibility" means more than just being able to open a .wav file, and
"capability" means more than just being able to mix and edit. For
better or worse, Pro Tools is the standard, and to attract the interest
of pros, anything else will have to do *everything* it does, AND offer a
compelling reason to step outside the comfort zone. It's not worth the
effort to move to something new if there's no advantage.

Vendor lock-in is everywhere. OSS will, probably, eventually, I hope,
remove that as a strategy in computing circles.

--
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

"Noah Roberts" wrote in message .

So which applications did you try?

Well we know what applications you *refuse* to try, so that you can give an
'authoritative' opinion.

geoff

In article znr1117884353k@trad, Mike Rivers wrote:

You still don't seem to get it. Linux is not just an operating system,
it's a lifestyle. If he already has a computer and it's not running
Linux, unless he was interested enough in computers and operating
systems to be aware of Linux and its grassroots support system,
there's no reason for him to make the switch. He already has what he
needs and he wants to add to it, not start from scratch again (or have
two computers, even if they're both running on the same hardware).

Much as some of the Linux crowd may want you to think so, it's not a
lifestyle. It's just an operating system, one tool of many. If you
want for-pay support you can get it, if you want grassroots support,
you can do that too. Linux isn't even a single thing.

I remember when I was a grad student, someone wrote into the Georgia
Tech campus lifestyle about how the school should not support "the
gay lifestyle." And a gay student wrote a letter in saying that "the
gay lifestyle at tech consists entirely of studying, cramming, and
complaining about not having any social life, and is therefore
indistinguishable from the straight lifestyle."
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message news:d7s3nh$ss1

The one thing I _do_ miss about VMS is the heavyweight filesystem, which
is itself a real database rather than just a collection of flat files.
But everyone is getting away from that today. Even Apple has pretty much
dropped the resource fork stuff in the filesystem and they only bother
faking it for older applications.


I would imagine streaming a flat file much be incredibly quicker that
interogating a databse, which itself probably does have a physical 'flat
file' somewhere on a disk, or a very busy head.

geoff

"Linønut" wrote in message
...
Bob Cain poked his little head through the XP firewall and said:

Noah Roberts wrote:

Talking about yourself in the third person is just weird.

You really should take up some other hobby than advocacy.
You do more harm than good for your cause.

I'll bet the cross-posting troll who started this thread is having a
good time.

Well the thread is rather intensly about Audio and Linux, so I don't see
where the inappropriateness is, apart from the average Liniot not being
particularly interested in Audio.


geoff

"Linønut" wrote in message
...
Lorin David Schultz poked his little head through the XP firewall and
said:

"Noah Roberts" wrote in message

"Compatibility" means more than just being able to open a .wav file, and
"capability" means more than just being able to mix and edit. For
better or worse, Pro Tools is the standard, and to attract the interest
of pros, anything else will have to do *everything* it does, AND offer a
compelling reason to step outside the comfort zone. It's not worth the
effort to move to something new if there's no advantage.

Vendor lock-in is everywhere. OSS will, probably, eventually, I hope,
remove that as a strategy in computing circles.

Well, Apple and Digidesign to be specific.

geoff

another viewer wrote:
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
John wrote:

approx. 9 months ago. it was a brief consideration when we were
spoec'ing new mastering systems but there wasn't anything in the 'nix
world to meet the criteria which included DDP delivery in Orange Book
format as well as DDP on Exabyte and supporting the PlexToools proggies
from Plextor and/or interfacing with our Clover 101.

Dunno about the Plextor stuff, but we run GEAR under Solaris and it
works nicely... I think they also have a Linux port.

You _can_ get cdwrite to make a DDP image file, then dd it to Exabyte.
under Linux, the exabyte drive just shows up as a file in /dev that you
can copy data to... if you copy a file over to it, it appears on the
tape with an end of file mark at the end. And Orange Book is easy.

gaah, why should we suffer thru that when the process is so well
integrated in other systems like sadie, sonic and sequoia? the master
edl is built, PQ'd, CD TEXT'd, just hit the button and watch it go.

It's two commands! One to make the image, one to copy it. That seems
pretty close to just pressing the button and watching it go to me.

I like the command line a lot, and my main complaint with Linux is the
increasing abandonment of the command line by commercial applications.
Much of what I like about GEAR is that you can disable the stinking GUI
and use a proper command line.

The Plextools support is the real sticky point. I agree that is a
dealbreaker. I got the interface specs from Plextor and I keep saying
I am going to write an error monitoring tool, but at this point I am
still using an instrumented Philips CD player that I built in grad school.

I haven't downloaded it yet, but the new Plextools Pro looks -really-
good. It's a small purchase, but, oh my.....

and the clover 101 happily works as a standalone, proofing discs that
come in for duplication/replication or outgoing masters if the big
system is busy.

Yeah, yeah, I know I should upgrade from the homebrew standalone. It's been
on the list since Gabe was posting here but I just always keep finding more
important things to worry about.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

another viewer wrote:

Re-read my reply above and tell me what 'nix applications meet those
criteria.

Needle in a haystack.

the qualifying systems were Sadie, Pyramix, Sequoia, Sonic HD and we
ended up with Sequoia alongside our Sonic.

Mike Rivers wrote:


You still don't seem to get it. Linux is not just an operating system,
it's a lifestyle.

Ok, you're just making **** up now. That is just nonsense. It doesn't
even have any meaning. Where do you come up with these ideas?!

Jeff_Relf wrote:
Hi Bob_Cain, Unix, or maybe Win_XP, You wrote:
I've often wondered about " whence the registry."

Does Unix have something called The_Registry ?

Unfortunately Gnome developers in their infanite MS inspired wisdom did
indeed implement a registly like system for configuring applications.
They call it GConf. They are also implementing .Net and are urging a
switchover. I believe the main developer actually applied but got
denied at MS. Now he seems hell bent on implementing Windows with
Linux. I don't particularly dig the idea obviously.

Anyways... Win_XP's registry is Hideously abused.
My bigest complaint with Visual_Studio_2003 is how it keeps it's settings
in so many bizarre places, including the system directories and the registry.

I have a similar problem trying to figure out certain information about
McAfee AV installs. Keys are in different places, sometimes even among
the same version of the software, the format of the values is different
depending on the phase of the moon and the air pressure...it's all very
annoying and none of them will help with the problem except suggest we
spend thousands on some enterprise management system.

Bob Cain wrote:


Noah Roberts wrote:

Talking about yourself in the third person is just weird.


You really should take up some other hobby than advocacy. You do more
harm than good for your cause.

I don't do advocacy. I point out FUD at times, and I answer questions
of people looking at Linux or needing help with it, but I could care
less what anyone else uses.

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On 2005-06-04 (ScottDorsey) said:
watching it go to me. I like the command line a lot, and my main
complaint with Linux is the increasing abandonment of the command
line by commercial applications. Much of what I like about GEAR is
that you can disable the stinking GUI and use a proper command line.
THat's one of my main interests in eventually trying some linux audio
apps. I hate a damned gui.

I was hoping that the one screen access for the blind developer would
get together with digi design and see what they could do to increase
access to pt, but they're out of the market at the moment and who
knows what will come along next. I found with a hardware control
service I had access to some of pt but there was still a lot of power
I couldn't get to, not that I'd use it.

What do I want an audio app to do for me? Take in audio, let me embed
the codes to burn a cd. I might find it handy if there was a good
multi track recorder that wasn't the gui from hell but maybe down the
road. By the time I'm ready to mix down multi track audio from
wahtever format the editing and cleanup is pretty much done, so just
getting the damned stereo audio in and getting a usable disk out the
other end would be my primary application .
Btw I've played over the last few years until that machine dined with
slackware because there was screen access for it.
I keep following these threads hoping for discussions that might point
me to usable apps but instead every time what I seem to see is a flame
war from zealots on both sides. Great, you like what you use! I'm
not going to rush right out and buy any more tools I can only use with
an assistant standing over my shoulder when they have the time or that
make me spend an inordinate amount of time putzing with a damned
computer. My computer is like just about everything else I own
considered a tool to get what I want done. spending a day to
reinstall windows and fight with all the bs when all I really wanted
to do was a simple task isn't my idea of fun either, hence my only win
box in the house gets limited to desktop publishing type chores and
the lady runs lotus and other applications for bookkeeping
on the damned thing as well. WHen I first set it up and reinstalled
her favorite apps I had to call a friend in Iowa just to find out to
tell her what the f*ck to point and click so that I could get the
proper printer drivers installed. Intuitive that **** is not! Maybe
somebody's 80 year old grandma could figure it out, but two adults
with above average intelligence were standing around scratching our
heads.
AS one of my favorite lines I place at the ends of messages says, they
can have my command line when they pry it from my cold dead fingers
g. Meanwhile I welcome discussions of good linux audio tools
without the flame wars thanks.





Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



"Applying computer technology is as simple as
finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw."

In article ,
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

Yeah, yeah, I know I should upgrade from the homebrew standalone. It's been
on the list since Gabe was posting here but I just always keep finding more
important things to worry about.
--scott

that does it take it back quite a ways (well over 10 years iirc) and
also reminds me of his loss; so young, talented and dedicated.
--
Digital Services Recording Studios
http://www.digisrvs.com

Geoff Wood wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message news:d7s3nh$ss1

The one thing I _do_ miss about VMS is the heavyweight filesystem, which
is itself a real database rather than just a collection of flat files.
But everyone is getting away from that today. Even Apple has pretty much
dropped the resource fork stuff in the filesystem and they only bother
faking it for older applications.

I would imagine streaming a flat file much be incredibly quicker that
interogating a databse, which itself probably does have a physical 'flat
file' somewhere on a disk, or a very busy head.

You can think of a filesystem as being a database in some way... but it is
a database of individual data sets linked only by name and with no information
about what is inside.

With some of the fancier filesystems, there is additional information about
the file kept alongside the filename and permissions... things like what
sort of application created the file and what the internal format is. (So
the application doesn't have to guess from the extension what the file is).

SOME of the really nifty filesystems actually have database features built
into the filesystem. This can indeed make flat file accesses slower, but
it means writing commercial database applications become trivial tasks
and it means you have a high-speed database system that is accessable even
from the command line. This became very popular for advanced commercial
operating systems in the seventies but it has fallen out of favor.

One look at how Oracle bypasses the filesystem directly and talks to a
raw disk device will show you how far backwards we have gone in the past
25 years.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Dana" wrote in message
...


N-Tracks is actually quite a nice application, for what it does.
It's certainly no Sonar, but for basic hard disk recording, it does a nice
job and the price is fair as well.
I have a friend that does all of his work with N-tracks (mostly voice
overs for local radio stations) and he loves it.
For me, I prefer Samplitude 7.x.


Yep, it is quite nice, and good value. Functionality-wish that's where I'm
pitching Ardour's niche if it was ported.

geoff

Scott Dorsey wrote:

One look at how Oracle bypasses the filesystem directly and talks to a
raw disk device will show you how far backwards we have gone in the past
25 years.

Seems eminently reasonable to me when optimal use of a disk
is a primary objective of your product. What about that do
you object to?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

SOME of the really nifty filesystems actually have database features built
into the filesystem. This can indeed make flat file accesses slower, but
it means writing commercial database applications become trivial tasks
and it means you have a high-speed database system that is accessable even
from the command line. This became very popular for advanced commercial
operating systems in the seventies but it has fallen out of favor.

One look at how Oracle bypasses the filesystem directly and talks to a
raw disk device will show you how far backwards we have gone in the past
25 years.


Yeah, but somewhere it always becomes are stream of bits on a disk, which
may or may not be contiguous.

geoff

"Linønut" wrote:

Vendor lock-in is everywhere.


I'm not sure what you mean by "vendor lock-in." If you mean Pro Tools
presently dominates in the professional audio production community, that
would be true. If you mean Digidesign has us by the balls somehow, that
would NOT be true.

Lots of people are constantly testing the waters for something that
floats better than PT. So far, it seems anything else either lacks some
significant capabilities or just isn't "better" enough to overcome
inertia. As genuinely competitive products become available, we hear
about it. Like, I've never used Nuendo or RADAR, but I'm certainly
aware of them. Until this thread, I'd never heard of any Linux audio
product except Jack. So I don't think the obstacle to Linux penetration
of the pro audio market is the result of Digi's dominance, but rather
just the current state of available Linux offerings.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

In article writes:

Ok, you're just making **** up now. That is just nonsense. It doesn't
even have any meaning. Where do you come up with these ideas?!

Easy. If it wasn't for Linux, you'd have no life. At least that's the
way you appear from your newsgroup postsings.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Geoff Wood wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message

SOME of the really nifty filesystems actually have database features built
into the filesystem. This can indeed make flat file accesses slower, but
it means writing commercial database applications become trivial tasks
and it means you have a high-speed database system that is accessable even
from the command line. This became very popular for advanced commercial
operating systems in the seventies but it has fallen out of favor.

One look at how Oracle bypasses the filesystem directly and talks to a
raw disk device will show you how far backwards we have gone in the past
25 years.


Yeah, but somewhere it always becomes are stream of bits on a disk, which
may or may not be contiguous.

Right, and the whole issue is making them as contiguous as they need to
be. The VMS filesystem doesn't balance very well and it can require
occasional defragmentation in some environments. But it provides a lot
of nifty features for commercial system applications that are sorely
missed in stripped-down systems today.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Bob Cain wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote:

One look at how Oracle bypasses the filesystem directly and talks to a
raw disk device will show you how far backwards we have gone in the past
25 years.

Seems eminently reasonable to me when optimal use of a disk
is a primary objective of your product. What about that do
you object to?

This is the job of the operating system. Whenever you have to bypass the
operating system and do a runaround to bang the hardware directly, something
is wrong because the operating system is not doing its job.

Integrating database features into the filesystem makes it possible for you
to _use_ the filesystem and not _fight against it_ for database systems.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Lorin David Schultz wrote:
"Linønut" wrote:

Vendor lock-in is everywhere.



I'm not sure what you mean by "vendor lock-in."

Vendor lock-in is basically what happens when a vendor makes it
difficult or impossible to switch to, or communicate with, any one
else's products. For instance, MS creates vendor lock-in by being as
incompatible with every one else as the possibly can. This seems to be
an integral part of their marketing strategy.

Entire fields can become locked in to a particular vendor if the vendor
plays their cards right. Then nobody can switch because in order to be
competative they have to use the same product as everyone else, and
there is no options because nothing else will communicate with this
product. Since nobody will switch because doing so could cripple their
business the problem never gets solved.

One past example is MS Office but now we have the option of using Open
Office which is at least partially compatible...enough so that 99% of
all Office documents can be opened and edited with it. That is how you
break vendor lock-in...you create a compatible product that also has
open standards.

An example of attempted lock-in is MS's extension of the kerbose
protocol. That one didn't work.

It is possible that such lock-in exists within the pro audio community
in the form of ProTools. Their method of creating a product that only
works with certain hardware and (correct me if I am wrong) hardware that
only works with certain software indicates that they are at least
attempting to create such industry wide vendor lock-in. If all
competitors have to be pro-tools compatible then it is a likely
conclusion that there is lock-in that some are attempting to break through.

Hope that answers your question.

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:


Ok, you're just making **** up now. That is just nonsense. It doesn't
even have any meaning. Where do you come up with these ideas?!


Easy. If it wasn't for Linux, you'd have no life.

Hmmm...that is up for interpretation. I probably wouldn't have much of
one with regard to computers. I probably wouldn't make near as much
money...I might not have gotten my current job because my expertise with
Linux was a major factor; in fact most of my past jobs were also
dependent upon Linux...windows "experts" are a dime a dozen but people
like me are hard to come by. I probably wouldn't have succeeded so
well in College because part of that was due to my extensive programming
experience I got solely because of the many tools I got for free in
Linux (and everyone else was dumbfounded by the command line even though
most were very smart). I would not have as powerful a digital recording
system because I probably wouldn't buy the very expensive daw programs
for windows.

So, my life would at least be VERY different. Who knows to what degree.
You could very well be mostly right.

wrote:
On 2005-06-04 (ScottDorsey) said:
watching it go to me. I like the command line a lot, and my main
complaint with Linux is the increasing abandonment of the command
line by commercial applications. Much of what I like about GEAR is
that you can disable the stinking GUI and use a proper command line.
THat's one of my main interests in eventually trying some linux audio
apps. I hate a damned gui.

http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/...ry/021090.html

That is the start of a conversation on the subject in LAU. It might be
of some interest to you.

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bob Cain wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:


One look at how Oracle bypasses the filesystem directly and talks to a
raw disk device will show you how far backwards we have gone in the past
25 years.

Seems eminently reasonable to me when optimal use of a disk
is a primary objective of your product. What about that do
you object to?


This is the job of the operating system. Whenever you have to bypass the
operating system and do a runaround to bang the hardware directly, something
is wrong because the operating system is not doing its job.

I must respectfully disagree. Among the hats I've worn over
the years, database architecture and underlying storage
management was one of the most challenging. The
requirements for database and transaction processing are
signifigantly special purpose (atomicity, concurrency,
journaling, contiguity, caching, recovery, etc.) as regards
optimality that trying to shoehorn it into a general purpose
filesystem imples nasty compromises. Nearly every database
system ends up grabbing storage for its use in large
contiguous regions and then managing it at the lowest
possible level for all kinds of good reasons, not the least
of which is immunity to OS vendor file system redesigns.

The database system vendor wants the most intimate
relationship to the underlying storage possible within which
to employ its heuristics and proprietary techniques without
OS dependancies, and their overhead, that are out of its
control. Imagine Oracle leaving it up to Microsoft to
provide those hooks. :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"Noah Roberts" wrote:

Vendor lock-in is basically what happens when a vendor makes it
difficult or impossible to switch to, or communicate with, any one
else's products.

Thanks Noah. I wasn't familiar with that phrase. I understand Lino's
earlier comments now.



It is possible that such lock-in exists within the pro audio
community in the form of ProTools. Their method of creating a
product that only works with certain hardware and (correct me
if I am wrong) hardware that only works with certain software

Gotcha. For the record, Pro Tool software will only work with specific
hardware, but Digi's ASIO drivers allow other software to use their
hardware.



Hope that answers your question.

It did. Thanks.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Bob Cain wrote:

I must respectfully disagree. Among the hats I've worn over
the years, database architecture and underlying storage
management was one of the most challenging. The
requirements for database and transaction processing are
signifigantly special purpose (atomicity, concurrency,
journaling, contiguity, caching, recovery, etc.) as regards
optimality that trying to shoehorn it into a general purpose
filesystem imples nasty compromises. Nearly every database
system ends up grabbing storage for its use in large
contiguous regions and then managing it at the lowest
possible level for all kinds of good reasons, not the least
of which is immunity to OS vendor file system redesigns.

This is the case for a lot of serious database systems, and because it
is the case, big computers that are intended for database applications
wind up having special filesystems for the job. Take a look at how
CICS handles this sort of thing for a really slick way of doing it.

An operating system that is designed for commercial applications should
have the database stuff integrated into it.

The database system vendor wants the most intimate
relationship to the underlying storage possible within which
to employ its heuristics and proprietary techniques without
OS dependancies, and their overhead, that are out of its
control.

This is _why_ integration is such a big deal.

Imagine Oracle leaving it up to Microsoft to
provide those hooks. :-)

It is a horrifying thought, but it's true that the story of the PC begins
with users bypassing the authorized BIOS calls and banging the hardware
directly because the BIOS was lousy, so it's a longstanding tradition there.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message
news:t%xoe.26089$HI.9907@edtnps84...
"Linønut" wrote:

Vendor lock-in is everywhere.


I'm not sure what you mean by "vendor lock-in." If you mean Pro Tools
presently dominates in the professional audio production community, that
would be true. If you mean Digidesign has us by the balls somehow, that
would NOT be true.

Lots of people are constantly testing the waters for something that floats
better than PT. So far, it seems anything else either lacks some
significant capabilities or just isn't "better" enough to overcome
inertia.

Naaa - Digidesign just did an Apple and locked people in ( and did the psych
job as well). That's the inertia that needs to be overcome, but for better
or worse it is some sort of standard. One I happily resist.

geoff

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Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1177817 comp.os.linux.advocacy:1227444 comp.os.linux.misc:603053


use a proper command line. THat's one of my main interests in
eventually trying some linux audio apps. I hate a damned gui.
http://music.columbia.
edu/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2005-February/021090.html That is
the start of a conversation on the subject in LAU. It might be of
some interest to you.
HOpe that site likes this old dos box's rudimentary browser and is at
least not a bunch of pdf files. WIll be worth following when I have a
few moments.

THanks for the link. I'll take a look at it.



Richard Webb,
Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La.
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--



Braille: support true literacy for the blind!

In article writes:

It is possible that such lock-in exists within the pro audio community
in the form of ProTools. Their method of creating a product that only
works with certain hardware and (correct me if I am wrong) hardware that
only works with certain software indicates that they are at least
attempting to create such industry wide vendor lock-in.

Well, that's how they make their money - by selling ProTools, not
giving away how to make another system that can directly interchange
projects with it. However there are plenty of programs from other
vendors from which you can import projects to ProTools and to which
you can export ProTools projects. It's not automatic like opening a
Word file with Open Office, but there's certainly room to move.

It's the industry that's really kind of locking things in. Once a
standard is established, people like to work in that standard. There's
a certain comfort zone when a project is moved from one ProTools
studio to another, rather than from a ProTools studio to a Nuendo
studio to an Ardour studio.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
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you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
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begin In znr1117885152k@trad, on 06/04/2005
at 10:22 AM, (Mike Rivers) said:

Up The Revolution! That went away in the 'sixties. Users shouldn't
care about how bloated Windows

Who are you o tell users what they should care about? If it affects
them, then they have a good reason to care. Even if it doesn't affect
them, they have a right to care. Why not just speak for yourself, say
that *you* don't care and let it go at that?

Unfortunately there are unscrupulous people out there who exploit the
weaknesses of the system and that's what we hear most about. I'm
sure that this would happen with any popular operating system.

Some are more vulnerable than others.

It's (sub)human nature.

It may be human nature to attempt criminal acts. It isn't human nature
to succeed simply because you want to.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel

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begin In znr1117884353k@trad, on 06/04/2005
at 10:22 AM, (Mike Rivers) said:

You still don't seem to get it. Linux is not just an operating
system, it's a lifestyle.

ROTF,LMAO! Linux is just a kernel; there are some nice applications
that run under it, but nothing more than that. I can't speak for
anybody else, but I was able to buy SuSE Linux without having to take
a vow to not run any other operating system. In fact, Linux isn't even
my primary operating system. Nor am I the only one here running
multiple systems.

there's no reason for him to make the switch.

That's for him to decide; the fact that you don't understand his
reasons doesn't prohibit him from acting on them.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel

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reply to

begin In znr1117934974k@trad, on 06/05/2005
at 07:20 AM, (Mike Rivers) said:

Easy. If it wasn't for Linux, you'd have no life. At least that's the
way you appear from your newsgroup postsings.

How can you tell from his Usenet postings what he is doing when he
isn't at his computer. Maybe he stays at home, maybe he pub crawls and
maybe he sleeps with anyone who is breathing. The conclusions you draw
from his articles say more about you than about him.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel

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begin In , on 06/05/2005
at 04:40 PM, (Scott Dorsey) said:

This is the case for a lot of serious database systems, and because
it is the case, big computers that are intended for database
applications wind up having special filesystems for the job. Take a
look at how CICS handles this sort of thing for a really slick way of
doing it.

What special file systems does CICS have? It may use some VSAM options
that require authorization, but it doesn't have its own file systems.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel

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right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
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reply to

In article lid writes:

Who are you o tell users what they should care about? If it affects
them, then they have a good reason to care. Even if it doesn't affect
them, they have a right to care. Why not just speak for yourself, say
that *you* don't care and let it go at that?

Who are you to tell me what opinions I can express? Go back to your
computer and edit your postings so they won't go to rec.audio.pro and
I won't bother you any more.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Bob Cain wrote in
:


You do more harm than good for your cause.
Bob


As do you, dip****.

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Just get a tape machine and be done with it.
It works just fine.

You do realize of course that analog systems are just not ready for
proffessional application. They are not at all compatible with the
standard for today's pro recording studios: Pro Tools. If someone
calls up and asks if you have Pro-Tools you will have to say no and you
will loose all your customers. Clients want to know that you can
dependably get the job done, and the only way they know that is that
you have the standard tools to get the job done right.

begin In znr1118145440k@trad, on 06/07/2005
at 09:58 AM, (Mike Rivers) said:

Who are you to tell me what opinions I can express?

Sorry, tonto, I didn't tell you, I asked who you thought you were and
why you were unable to speak for yourself instead of speaking for
others about whom you know nothing.

Go back to your computer and edit your postings so they won't go to
rec.audio.pro

FOAD; If you don't like where folloups go then you are free to add a
Followup-To field to your articles.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT http://patriot.net/~shmuel

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