[Pt]

I am a guitar/bass player.
I am an old guy and I am retired but still playing in bands near the
Chicago area.
I have had many amps, mostly tube amps but my main amp these days is a
1989 (year) JCM Marshall half stack.
I have been able to replace power and preamp tubes and set the bias
for decades but I never knew that one tube could sound different from
another tube till recently.
A few years ago a friend and I dug in to replacing the tubes and caps
in my Marshall.
We found a guy near Rockford who would test tubes for us and sell us
almost any tubes I wanted.
I had good luck with Svetlana 12ax7's but I wanted to try something
different.
Of course Mullard NOS came to mind.
My friend had some that he took out of an old Earth amp and I gave
them a try.
I have to say that I was not impressed.
They sounded OK but they were very noisy.
The Tube Man we met allowed me to try any tubes I wanted and if I
didn't like them, bring them back and try some more.
I ended up with two EI gold 12ax7's and one RCA NOS.
Only because the EI's were very quiet and still had the sound I
wanted.
I read that EI's don't hold up well but after 3 years they are still
sounding good, and quiet.
As for power tubes I went with 2 Mullard EL34 reissues.
Later I got a good deal on an Epiphone Pacemaker amp.
Class A 2/EL84's.
Replaced the caps, tubes and speaker.
Nice quiet amp now.
Loud enough to gig with plus it weighs 25 pounds.
My Tube Man friend died recently and there is nobody in my area who
test and sells tubes.
That got me to thinking....Maybe I can buy a tube tester and start my
own little business.
So I got a B&K 500 mutual conductance tube tester off ebay that has
been restored and calibrated.
Next I got a box of 80 tubes untested off ebay for $9.14....in transit
now.
So that's where I am.
I know very little about tubes but I'm willing to learn.
I have been lurking here for a week or so and after reading some posts
here I realize how little I know.
I have been in the newsgroups since the mid 90's so I am not new to
the groups.
I was a construction union electrician in my day job so I understand
electricity and ohms law to some degree.
My name is Patrick Tucker.
I live in a small rural town about 100 miles west of Chicago.
But I was born in Chicago and grew up in Oak Park.

Pt

[Phil Allison[_3_]]

"Pt"

I am a guitar/bass player.
I am an old guy and I am retired but still playing in bands near the
Chicago area.
I have had many amps, mostly tube amps but my main amp these days is a
1989 (year) JCM Marshall half stack.
I have been able to replace power and preamp tubes and set the bias
for decades but I never knew that one tube could sound different from
another tube till recently.
A few years ago a friend and I dug in to replacing the tubes and caps
in my Marshall.
We found a guy near Rockford who would test tubes for us and sell us
almost any tubes I wanted.
I had good luck with Svetlana 12ax7's but I wanted to try something
different.
Of course Mullard NOS came to mind.
My friend had some that he took out of an old Earth amp and I gave
them a try.
I have to say that I was not impressed.
They sounded OK but they were very noisy.
The Tube Man we met allowed me to try any tubes I wanted and if I
didn't like them, bring them back and try some more.
I ended up with two EI gold 12ax7's and one RCA NOS.
Only because the EI's were very quiet and still had the sound I
wanted.
I read that EI's don't hold up well but after 3 years they are still
sounding good, and quiet.
As for power tubes I went with 2 Mullard EL34 reissues.
Later I got a good deal on an Epiphone Pacemaker amp.
Class A 2/EL84's.
Replaced the caps, tubes and speaker.
Nice quiet amp now.
Loud enough to gig with plus it weighs 25 pounds.
My Tube Man friend died recently and there is nobody in my area who
test and sells tubes.
That got me to thinking....Maybe I can buy a tube tester and start my
own little business.
So I got a B&K 500 mutual conductance tube tester off ebay that has
been restored and calibrated.
Next I got a box of 80 tubes untested off ebay for $9.14....in transit
now.
So that's where I am.
I know very little about tubes but I'm willing to learn.
I have been lurking here for a week or so and after reading some posts
here I realize how little I know.
I have been in the newsgroups since the mid 90's so I am not new to
the groups.
I was a construction union electrician in my day job so I understand
electricity and ohms law to some degree.
My name is Patrick Tucker.
I live in a small rural town about 100 miles west of Chicago.
But I was born in Chicago and grew up in Oak Park.

Pt


** Pat - lemme tell ya, that is one fantastic post.

You come across as a modest, very genuine and rather cool dude.

All I can say is this - take it one step at a time, ask specific
questions here when you need to and be prepared to see a few conflicting
answers arrive.

Cos there ain't NOTHING simple about tubes.

Sure hope you enjoy a STEEP learning curve !!



.... Phil

[Pt]

On Apr 27, 9:58*am, "Phil Allison" wrote:
"Pt"







I am a guitar/bass player.
I am an old guy and I am retired but still playing in bands near the
Chicago area.
I have had many amps, mostly tube amps but my main amp these days is a
1989 (year) JCM *Marshall half stack.
I have been able to replace power and preamp tubes and set the bias
for decades but I never knew that one tube could sound different from
another tube till recently.
A few years ago a friend and I dug in to replacing the tubes and caps
in my Marshall.
We found a guy near Rockford who would test tubes for us and sell us
almost any tubes I wanted.
I had good luck with Svetlana 12ax7's but I wanted to try something
different.
Of course Mullard NOS came to mind.
My friend had some that he took out of an old Earth amp and I gave
them a try.
I have to say that I was not impressed.
They sounded OK but they were very noisy.
The Tube Man we met allowed me to try any tubes I wanted and if I
didn't like them, bring them back and try some more.
I ended up with two EI gold 12ax7's and one RCA NOS.
Only because the EI's were very quiet and still had the sound I
wanted.
I read that EI's don't hold up well but after 3 years they are still
sounding good, and quiet.
As for power tubes I went with 2 Mullard EL34 reissues.
Later I got a good deal on an Epiphone Pacemaker amp.
Class A 2/EL84's.
Replaced the caps, tubes and speaker.
Nice quiet amp now.
Loud enough to gig with plus it weighs 25 pounds.
My Tube Man friend died recently and there is nobody in my area who
test and sells tubes.
That got me to thinking....Maybe I can buy a tube tester and start my
own little business.
So I got a B&K 500 mutual conductance tube tester off ebay that has
been restored and calibrated.
Next I got a box of 80 tubes untested off ebay for $9.14....in transit
now.
So that's where I am.
I know very little about tubes but I'm willing to learn.
I have been lurking here for a week or so and after reading some posts
here I realize how little I know.
I have been in the newsgroups since the mid 90's so I am not new to
the groups.
I was a construction union electrician in my day job so I understand
electricity and ohms law to some degree.
My name is Patrick Tucker.
I live in a small rural town about 100 miles west of Chicago.
But I was born in Chicago and grew up in Oak Park.

Pt

** Pat *- *lemme tell ya, that is one fantastic post.

You come across as a modest, very genuine and rather cool dude.

All I can say is this * - * take it one step at a time, ask specific
questions here when you need to and be prepared to see a few conflicting
answers arrive.

Cos there ain't *NOTHING *simple about tubes.

Sure hope you enjoy a STEEP learning curve !!

... *Phil-

Thanks Phil.
I remember you from AGA a few years ago before it turned into a
political nightmare.

Pt

[John L Stewart]

I have been in the newsgroups since the mid 90's so I am not new to
the groups.
I was a construction union electrician in my day job so I understand
electricity and ohms law to some degree.
My name is Patrick Tucker.
I live in a small rural town about 100 miles west of Chicago.
But I was born in Chicago and grew up in Oak Park.

Pt[/quote]

For a good start you should consider investing in a few books covering basic electronics. Here are some suggestions-

Old Time Radios by Joseph J Carr. There is a very good section on how & why vacuum tubes do what they do. This book is mainly directed at folks restoring old radios, but an amplifier in any radio is basically same as your guitar amp. Same goes for the rectifier, power transformer & other circuits.

The Tube Amp Book by Aspen Pitman. Includes circuits covering several hundred guitar tube amps. As well covers most of the famous vacuum tube guitar amps & tubes in some detail.

Tube Testers & Classic Electronic Test Gear, Alan Douglas. See it at this link-

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?ew...sting*editions

Many used books covering all aspects of electronics are available at-

www.alibris.com

All at a good price. I've used them quite a bit & completely satisfied.

BTW, I'm an old fart too!

Cheers & Good Luck, John

[Big Bad Bob]

On 04/27/11 07:58, Phil Allison so wittily quipped:
You come across as a modest, very genuine and rather cool dude.

why do you treat this guy with respect, when you're an ASSHOLE to pretty
much everyone else? Were you looking for someone to STROKE YOUR
ABUSIVELY GIGANTIC EGO or something?

(don't pay any attention to what Phil Allison says - he's an IDIOT and a
TROLL)

[am I getting to you yet?]

[Big Bad Bob]

On 04/27/11 07:04, Pt so wittily quipped:
I am a guitar/bass player.
I am an old guy and I am retired but still playing in bands near the
Chicago area.

any music on-line? (soundclick or whatever)

I have had many amps, mostly tube amps but my main amp these days is a
1989 (year) JCM Marshall half stack.

That got me to thinking....Maybe I can buy a tube tester and start my
own little business.

not a bad idea. you might add speaker re-cone and guitar setup to basic
amp servicing, and have someone you can call on for more extensive
repairs. [/me has a close relative who was in the music store business,
now retired - used to spend time at the store, etc.]

So I got a B&K 500 mutual conductance tube tester off ebay that has
been restored and calibrated.

sounds good so far.

Next I got a box of 80 tubes untested off ebay for $9.14....in transit
now.

hope at least half are good, and none broken. You could test them and
re-e-bay the ones you don't need maybe?

I know very little about tubes but I'm willing to learn.

despite what SOME people may say, not all that difficult. You can start
with Wikipedia articles like THIS one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube

it's a bit long but the first part should be relevant to guitar amps.


For basic tube replacement, large music outlets (like Guitar Center)
usually sell Ruby and/or Sovtek tubes (at least, last time I checked).
They're "ok" for most things, and the gold-plated 'Groove Tubes' are
sometimes made by those SAME two tube companies with other people's
brands stamped on them (and with the gold plating). I've never heard of
anyone griping about either Ruby or Sovtek, though I'm sure someone
[here] will.

'flipper' suggested a good tube source (web site) a while back (you can
'flip' through his posts, heh) but there are a large number of them out
there. I would suggest that for MOST tubes the new ones (rather than
NOS) will perform as well or perhaps better. There are a lot of myths
out there about old tubes and how they sound 'better' or whatever. Some
may be true, but most are probably FUD.

I have been lurking here for a week or so and after reading some posts
here I realize how little I know.

you probably know more than you think you do. Most of the discussions
recently are highly technical (with the exception of some trolling), and
geeky-technical knowledge is only needed to design an amp from scratch.
You don't need that kind of in-depth knowledge to find a decent set of
tubes for your amp, or replace tubes in someone else's amp. It can be
fun to get geeky with all of this stuff, but for a working musician
(perhaps wanting to work on other people's gear), 'the basics' are
probably enough.

I was a construction union electrician in my day job so I understand
electricity and ohms law to some degree.

and you can read a wiring diagram, no doubt. I did some wiring 'back in
the day' also, when I was in the Navy. It's a different skill set, but
related thinking... like properly wiring a dual light switch (both up or
both down = off, one up and one down = on).

I live in a small rural town about 100 miles west of Chicago.
But I was born in Chicago and grew up in Oak Park.

can't leave without singing the blues (ha ha ha ha)

I've always liked Fender amps myself. You can find schematics for them
online.

[John L Stewart]

Originally Posted by Big Bad Bob

On 04/27/11 07:58, Phil Allison so wittily quipped:
You come across as a modest, very genuine and rather cool dude.

why do you treat this guy with respect, when you're an ASSHOLE to pretty
much everyone else? Were you looking for someone to STROKE YOUR
ABUSIVELY GIGANTIC EGO or something?

(don't pay any attention to what Phil Allison says - he's an IDIOT and a
TROLL)

[am I getting to you yet?]

Hey there Big Fat Bob, you are getting even more boring. Perhaps a nap will help you feel better.

Your Pal John

[Big Bad Bob]

On 04/28/11 07:35, John L Stewart so wittily quipped:

Hey there Big Fat Bob, you are getting even more boring. Perhaps a nap
will help you feel better.

what are YOU, a phil phanboi?

perhaps a brain transplant would make you THINK better

[Edward Morris]

Hello Pt. I have a friend that lives in Orland Park, IL. His name is Jim
McShane. He's been great in helping me find audio nirvana. He repairs
audio equipment, sells tubes and is just a great guy. His website is:
pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane Tell him Eddie sent you. I won't get any
money. Just trying to help.

Eddie

[Patrick Turner]

On Apr 29, 5:44*am, Big Bad Bob BigBadBob-at-mrp3-
wrote:
On 04/28/11 07:35, John L Stewart so wittily quipped:



Hey there Big Fat Bob, you are getting even more boring. Perhaps a nap
will help you feel better.

what are YOU, a phil phanboi?

perhaps a brain transplant would make you THINK better

Ah, sigh. the tendency for guys to practice one-upmanship and
irrationality regarding who is a friend or foe continues.....

Anyway, Phil was right about a few technical issues. And BTW, teflon
sleeving cut to length over solid core silver plated wiring in
amplifiers which are all hand wired turret to turret might be good
practice, but totally uneccessary in a restoration of some ancient old
amp where replacement of all R&C is mandatory. One may buy retro style
cloth covered wire which looks just like the old stuff and in several
colors. I personally hate using teflon, always difficult to work with,
But in the old days woven cloth sleeving doped in some sticky old
brown gunk was often used for wiring over solid core. Most old radios,
amps and radios made before PVC came in during the 1950s had cloth
covered wire with rubber insulation on tined stranded wire, all about
3 amp rated at least. The rubber dries and crumbles, and the old wire
is always messy where you have to cut&strip an end when re-wiring an
old bitta junk. So I just use PVC coated wire.

In Australia, we have a Shiela Prime Minister who's having a hard time
keeping her political head off the chopping block while she insists on
imposing a carbon tax because it won't reduce CO2 unless they also
close down the coal industry. Slowly the truth about ineffectiveness
of carbon trading and its cost to Joe Public and his missus is
beginning to be understood because a bloke who could be called Sledge
Hammer Abbot is sorely bashing the ideas put forward by our Shiela
Leader.

All this is a nice and peaceful function of Australian De-mockracy
where ppl are free to mock one another between elections when the
People get the chance to have a say on whose idea is more mockable
than someone else's.

So it should be here, except there are no elections, and probably just
as well because there'd be a permanent rebellion and war going on.....

Patrick Turner.

[John L Stewart]

Originally Posted by Patrick Turner

On Apr 29, 5:44*am, Big Bad Bob BigBadBob-at-mrp3-
wrote:
On 04/28/11 07:35, John L Stewart so wittily quipped:



Hey there Big Fat Bob, you are getting even more boring. Perhaps a nap
will help you feel better.

what are YOU, a phil phanboi?

perhaps a brain transplant would make you THINK better

Ah, sigh. the tendency for guys to practice one-upmanship and
irrationality regarding who is a friend or foe continues.....

Anyway, Phil was right about a few technical issues. And BTW, teflon
sleeving cut to length over solid core silver plated wiring in
amplifiers which are all hand wired turret to turret might be good
practice, but totally uneccessary in a restoration of some ancient old
amp where replacement of all R&C is mandatory. One may buy retro style
cloth covered wire which looks just like the old stuff and in several
colors. I personally hate using teflon, always difficult to work with,
But in the old days woven cloth sleeving doped in some sticky old
brown gunk was often used for wiring over solid core. Most old radios,
amps and radios made before PVC came in during the 1950s had cloth
covered wire with rubber insulation on tined stranded wire, all about
3 amp rated at least. The rubber dries and crumbles, and the old wire
is always messy where you have to cut&strip an end when re-wiring an
old bitta junk. So I just use PVC coated wire.

In Australia, we have a Shiela Prime Minister who's having a hard time
keeping her political head off the chopping block while she insists on
imposing a carbon tax because it won't reduce CO2 unless they also
close down the coal industry. Slowly the truth about ineffectiveness
of carbon trading and its cost to Joe Public and his missus is
beginning to be understood because a bloke who could be called Sledge
Hammer Abbot is sorely bashing the ideas put forward by our Shiela
Leader.

All this is a nice and peaceful function of Australian De-mockracy
where ppl are free to mock one another between elections when the
People get the chance to have a say on whose idea is more mockable
than someone else's.

So it should be here, except there are no elections, and probably just
as well because there'd be a permanent rebellion and war going on.....

Patrick Turner.

----------------------------------------------------------------

No question, Phil A is right on the money most of the time & has been in my experience for some years. He may be a little odd at times but best to ignore that.

Cheers (and peace) to all, John

[Pt]

On Apr 30, 10:58*pm, Patrick Turner wrote:
On Apr 29, 5:44*am, Big Bad Bob BigBadBob-at-mrp3-

wrote:
On 04/28/11 07:35, John L Stewart so wittily quipped:

Hey there Big Fat Bob, you are getting even more boring. Perhaps a nap
will help you feel better.

what are YOU, a phil phanboi?

perhaps a brain transplant would make you THINK better

Ah, sigh. the tendency for guys to practice one-upmanship and
irrationality regarding who is a friend or foe continues.....

Anyway, Phil was right about a few technical issues. And BTW, teflon
sleeving cut to length over solid core silver plated wiring in
amplifiers which are all hand wired turret to turret might be good
practice, but totally uneccessary in a restoration of some ancient old
amp where replacement of all R&C is mandatory. One may buy retro style
cloth covered wire which looks just like the old stuff and in several
colors. I personally hate using teflon, always difficult to work with,
But in the old days woven cloth sleeving doped in some sticky old
brown gunk was often used for wiring over solid core. Most old radios,
amps and radios made before PVC came in during the 1950s had cloth
covered wire with rubber insulation on tined stranded wire, all about
3 amp rated at least. The rubber dries and crumbles, and the old wire
is always messy where you have to cut&strip an end when re-wiring an
old bitta junk. So I just use PVC coated wire.

In Australia, we have a Shiela Prime Minister who's having a hard time
keeping her political head off the chopping block while she insists on
imposing a carbon tax because it won't reduce CO2 unless they also
close down the coal industry. Slowly the truth about ineffectiveness
of carbon trading and its cost to Joe Public and his missus is
beginning to be understood because a bloke who could be called Sledge
Hammer Abbot is sorely bashing the ideas put forward by our Shiela
ader.

All this is a nice and peaceful function of Australian De-mockracy
where ppl are free to mock one another between elections when the
People get the chance to have a say on whose idea is more mockable
than someone else's.

So it should be here, except there are no elections, and probably just
as well because there'd be a permanent rebellion and war going on.....

Patrick Turner.

Come to Chicago.
It can get a lot worse.

Pt

[Patrick Turner]

Come to Chicago.
It can get a lot worse.

Don't need to any more. Chicago came to Washington.



OK, I'm bamboozled. This thing about Chicago must be some kind of
American Secret which is unable to be understood by Astrayans who
wander off their field of life into Internet discussions. Just so
youse ain't bamboozled, Astraya is my country Down Under. People here
often don't quite realise they have all mostly "gorn astray" and in
fact our founding fathers and their doting mothers noticed this trait
so they decided to call the country whose politics were conceived over
several beers in a pub, Astraya.
The hot weather, floods, flies, and droughts made civil wars
impractical, and such things cut into pub time; even un-civil wars
were no more popular. Unless it was over some disagreement Deare Olde
Mother England had with The Gerries, and then there was no trouble
finding blokes to fight well and die in thousands instead of lurking
around in boring rural Astraya rounding up cattle and sheep. Astraya
is definately astay at the moment 'cos its unintenionally voted in
Mother Gillard who lives "in sin", unmarried, with an ex hair dresser
bloke in the Lodge, a very pale imitation of the White House. MG
hasn't ever got around to having kids, mainly because of having to get
ahead in Politics by keeping the carving knife sharp.
Since MG is so inexperienced as a Mother, and since Astraya is such an
unruly child, the adoption may not work out and I fear the child will
vote for the Bloke with the Hammer instead of mucking around again by
voting Green.

How else will Astrayan voters avoid Carbonization of their wallet
contents by carbon taxes?

After that don't work out too well, Lord Nose what lies ahead. Maybe a
kangaroo with a blind fold on has better sense of political directions
at present. But at least confusion and vaguity breeds an absense of
moving strongly into unpopular directions.

Patrick Turner.

[Patrick Turner]

On May 2, 7:58*pm, flipper wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2011 01:48:09 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner

wrote:

Come to Chicago.
It can get a lot worse.

Don't need to any more. Chicago came to Washington.

OK, I'm bamboozled. This thing about Chicago must be some kind of
American Secret which is unable to be understood by Astrayans who
wander off their field of life into Internet discussions.

Surely even 'down under' has read/seen/heard in either literature,
movie, or television about characters like Eliot Ness, Al Capone and,
in general, 'Chicago Mobsters' who's hand in hand enablers were
corrupt politicians 'on the take'.

Of course, I do not mean to imply things are that bad these days. It's
certainly improved, like maybe as much as 10 or 20%, on a sliding
scale.

When Chicago Mayor Richard Daley was asked in 1996 what it means when
21 corrupt Chicago officials are sent to prison in 21 years he replied
"It just means that 21 politicians have been sent to prison in 21
years."

First elected to Mayor in 1989 he is the longest serving U.S. mayor,
beating his now #2 father, who also 'ran' Chicago, by a year and a
half.

Former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich is currently undergoing
retrial for corruption in attempting to 'sell' President elect Obama's
then open Senate seat.

President Obama got his political 'education' in Chicago, and it
shows.

However, this is a day to celebrate. Bin Laden is history.

Ah, now I get it. Yeah, we heard all about USA crime problems, but ya
gotta expect it with such a large population and so much ****in money
and so many evil opportunities and with most people's high resistance
to anything except temptation.

Yeah, Bin Laden had it coming. Live by the bomb, die violently. But
exactly who in Pakistan helped him suvive so long? And it ain't all
over yet.

A few more trillions spent on foreign wars should fix it.

Donald Rump for President might be fun....

Better than David Letterman, who waits for news about the divorce of
the Bwittish newly weds....

Patrick Turner.

[Big Bad Bob]

On 05/02/11 18:12, Patrick Turner so wittily quipped:
On May 2, 7:58 pm, wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2011 01:48:09 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner

wrote:

Come to Chicago.
It can get a lot worse.

Don't need to any more. Chicago came to Washington.

OK, I'm bamboozled. This thing about Chicago must be some kind of
American Secret which is unable to be understood by Astrayans who
wander off their field of life into Internet discussions.

Surely even 'down under' has read/seen/heard in either literature,
movie, or television about characters like Eliot Ness, Al Capone and,
in general, 'Chicago Mobsters' who's hand in hand enablers were
corrupt politicians 'on the take'.

Of course, I do not mean to imply things are that bad these days. It's
certainly improved, like maybe as much as 10 or 20%, on a sliding
scale.

When Chicago Mayor Richard Daley was asked in 1996 what it means when
21 corrupt Chicago officials are sent to prison in 21 years he replied
"It just means that 21 politicians have been sent to prison in 21
years."

First elected to Mayor in 1989 he is the longest serving U.S. mayor,
beating his now #2 father, who also 'ran' Chicago, by a year and a
half.

Former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich is currently undergoing
retrial for corruption in attempting to 'sell' President elect Obama's
then open Senate seat.

President Obama got his political 'education' in Chicago, and it
shows.

However, this is a day to celebrate. Bin Laden is history.

Ah, now I get it. Yeah, we heard all about USA crime problems, but ya
gotta expect it with such a large population and so much ****in money
and so many evil opportunities and with most people's high resistance
to anything except temptation.

amazingly enough, per-capita crime is pretty low. but yeah. headlines
sell newspapers.

Donald Rump for President might be fun....

I'll have to start selling popcorn if THAT happens...

[Patrick Turner]

On May 3, 1:55*pm, flipper wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2011 18:12:32 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner





wrote:
On May 2, 7:58*pm, flipper wrote:
On Mon, 2 May 2011 01:48:09 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner

wrote:

Come to Chicago.
It can get a lot worse.

Don't need to any more. Chicago came to Washington.

OK, I'm bamboozled. This thing about Chicago must be some kind of
American Secret which is unable to be understood by Astrayans who
wander off their field of life into Internet discussions.

Surely even 'down under' has read/seen/heard in either literature,
movie, or television about characters like Eliot Ness, Al Capone and,
in general, 'Chicago Mobsters' who's hand in hand enablers were
corrupt politicians 'on the take'.

Of course, I do not mean to imply things are that bad these days. It's
certainly improved, like maybe as much as 10 or 20%, on a sliding
scale.

When Chicago Mayor Richard Daley was asked in 1996 what it means when
21 corrupt Chicago officials are sent to prison in 21 years he replied
"It just means that 21 politicians have been sent to prison in 21
years."

First elected to Mayor in 1989 he is the longest serving U.S. mayor,
beating his now #2 father, who also 'ran' Chicago, by a year and a
half.

Former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich is currently undergoing
retrial for corruption in attempting to 'sell' President elect Obama's
then open Senate seat.

President Obama got his political 'education' in Chicago, and it
shows.

However, this is a day to celebrate. Bin Laden is history.

Ah, now I get it. Yeah, we heard all about USA crime problems, but ya
gotta expect it with such a large population and so much ****in money
and so many evil opportunities and with most people's high resistance
to anything except temptation.

Actually, on average, crime is near or at an all time low, as a
percentage of population.

Yeah, Bin Laden had it coming. Live by the bomb, die violently. But
exactly who in Pakistan helped him suvive so long?

That's a remaining question but no one trusts the ISI.

And it ain't all
over yet.

Only a fool would think it was.

A few more trillions spent on foreign wars should fix it.

Optimist.

Donald Rump for President might be fun....

I have trouble seeing Trump as President but Joe Biden has made a case
for buffoonery in the V.P. position.

Better than David Letterman, who waits for news about the divorce of
the Bwittish newly weds....

It's certainly true that Donald trumps Letterman.

thwa thump bump



Patrick Turner.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The old and damned ugly Donald Rump has a bad reputation as a
determined mysoginst. I read all about him in a Sydney newspaper
today.

Anyway, who cares what politicians, governments, military
spokespersons or any wannabe VIP might say? I mean really, after
Wikileaks, its a changed world and nodoby need believe anyone about
anything any more. Everything is dis-information; George Orwell was
right.

Patrick Turner.

[Patrick Turner]

The old and damned ugly Donald Rump has a bad reputation as a
determined mysoginst.

Ah, misogyny, the hatred of women. That certainly explains why he
bought and runs the Miss U.S.A. pageant. After all, when you 'hate'
something you just naturally want gaggles and gaggles of it around.

I read all about him in a Sydney newspaper
today.

Trust me, you never read 'all about' anyone in a newspaper article and
there's good reason to wonder whether what little you read is true.

Yes, but Rump's ownership of the Pageant don't mean he loves shielas.

His quoted sayings and those from shielas who have written books that
are negative about Rumpy make the make him look real bad. But of
course none of a man's badness stops 50% of USA voters if they are
told to vote.

Anyway, who cares what politicians, governments, military
spokespersons or any wannabe VIP might say?

Seeing as how they intend to 'run things', just about everyone.

yeah, all above persons are sinister entities.

I mean really, after
Wikileaks, its a changed world and nodoby need believe anyone about
anything any more. Everything is dis-information; George Orwell was
right.

Says the man who just claimed to have read "all about" someone?

Well I never met The Leaker Julian. I never slept with him, or went to
school with him. Yeah, I don't know nothin' then, OK, youse can say
that. Anywaise, I'll just keep hunkered down in these here hills in my
tiny suburban mansion without 6 metre high walls, and WITH a
connection to the Net, and hope I get away with tryna understand
triodes and other vacumy gadgets. I don't mean no harm to no body, but
thousands don't believe that.

I just hope Rump don't become President and send in the helicopters at
2 am to have me face the CEOs of other toob amp makers, and dress me
up in an orange suit at Gitmo.

After Pakistan, maybe the 2am Chopper Team will be sent anywhere any
time. Pakistan was moanin about how many women and chillen got killed
and maimed in drone attacks where the US is too frightened to send in
real men which apparently must be in short supply. I don't lose sleep
over Osama Arsole, but what of the many many thousands of innocent
victims in wars persued by the land of the brave and the free?

They hammered nails through Jesus to a cross, but afterwards all these
stone churches sprang up. And Osama is a Jesus to the millions of
arabs living grimy lives, so I guess Uncle Sam will need to watch his
back, and his front, for it looks like these Osama followers have
nearly sent the US broke.....

Patrick Turner.

[Patrick Turner]

On May 4, 2:11*pm, flipper wrote:
On Tue, 3 May 2011 17:42:03 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Turner





wrote:

The old and damned ugly Donald Rump has a bad reputation as a
determined mysoginst.

Ah, misogyny, the hatred of women. That certainly explains why he
bought and runs the Miss U.S.A. pageant. After all, when you 'hate'
something you just naturally want gaggles and gaggles of it around.

I read all about him in a Sydney newspaper
today.

Trust me, you never read 'all about' anyone in a newspaper article and
there's good reason to wonder whether what little you read is true.

Yes, but Rump's ownership of the Pageant don't mean he loves shielas.

I didn't make any claims about who he 'loves' or hates, you did...
from a 'whole' newspaper article.

His quoted sayings and those from shielas who have written books that
are negative about Rumpy make the make him look real bad.

Your Sydney newspapers must use incredibly small print to include the
whole text of 'books'.

But of
course none of a man's badness stops 50% of USA voters if they are
told to vote.

One who has such a low opinion of Aussie politicians and voters
shouldn't be casting stones afar.





Anyway, who cares what politicians, governments, military
spokespersons or any wannabe VIP might say?

Seeing as how they intend to 'run things', just about everyone.

yeah, all above persons are sinister entities.

I mean really, after
Wikileaks, its a changed world and nodoby need believe anyone about
anything any more. Everything is dis-information; George Orwell was
right.

Says the man who just claimed to have read "all about" someone?

Well I never met The Leaker Julian. I never slept with him, or went to
school with him. Yeah, I don't know nothin' then, OK, youse can say
that.

I didn't say you know 'nothin'. What I implied is you have a
demonstrated propensity for picking only those things which
conveniently reinforce what you already believe.

Anywaise, I'll just keep hunkered down in these here hills in my
tiny suburban mansion without 6 metre high walls, and WITH a
connection to the Net, and hope I get away with tryna understand
triodes and other vacumy gadgets. I don't mean no harm to no body, but
thousands don't believe that.

I just hope Rump don't become President and send in the helicopters at
2 am to have me face the CEOs of other toob amp makers, and dress me
up in an orange suit at Gitmo.

You planning to go around blowing up people?

After Pakistan, maybe the 2am Chopper Team will be sent anywhere any
time. Pakistan was moanin about how many women and chillen got killed
and maimed in drone attacks where the US is too frightened to send in
real men which apparently must be in short supply.

Oh sure. It would be much more 'humane' to invade. Fewer casualties
too, eh?

Jeesh, what a schmuck.

I don't lose sleep
over Osama Arsole, but what of the many many thousands of innocent
victims in wars persued by the land of the brave and the free?

Positively trivial to avoid. Don't drop bombs on Pearl Harbor, fly
airplanes into our skyscrapers, invade allies, or issue fatwahs
ordering the 'faithful' to kill any and all Americans anywhere,
anytime, and any way they can.

We love making friends but rather despise being murdered. We're
'picky' that way.

They hammered nails through Jesus to a cross, but afterwards all these
stone churches sprang up. And Osama is a Jesus to the millions of
arabs living grimy lives, so I guess Uncle Sam will need to watch his
back, and his front, for it looks like these Osama followers have
nearly sent the US broke.....

You should thank your lucky stars you don't live in an Islamic
fundamentalist ruled country because they'd slit your throat for that
kind of heresy.

I might be the original curmudgeon from Oz. I hardly ever agree with
anyone, so I like to avoid many ppl as they avoid me. I got freedom of
speach, and only ****wit moslems would think I'm tryna tell em Osama
is "like a Jesus". Jesus gave us all a fabulous way to live, and we
revere Him. Well, Osama gave millions some hope of life improvement,
maybe a fabulous way to die, and they revere him like so many revere
Jesus. I for one don't follow any such heroes, I never gather with
other men clutching a photo or image of some holy person or holy
warrior, I never seethe with angst about the world I find myself in.
Nobody owes me nothing, and luckily by hard work I don't owe the world
anything. Just how all of us in the West get this message to the
wannabe bombers is a puzzle.

Of course there's a difference between Jesus and Mohommad, although
history shows time and time again that christians have a lot to be
guilty about, going right back to the crusades, and to the
Inquisition, and a pile of other stuff. So its not unusual for so
called christians to avoid following Jesus who said, "Love thine
enemies" , and shoot amd bomb as many as the eye can see, and not pay
one cent of compensation to all the innocents who are in the "wrong
place and time", like all those poor *******s in Iraq who'd not have
suffered had Dubya not carried on with an ill conceived hair brained
scheme to steal a country - and its oil. I feel unease when I think of
the vaporisation of Japanese cities in WW2. On the other side of the
coin there are the Sufi muslims who preach peace and tranquility and
similar good things that some christians actually practice. But all in
all, most ppl who believe in piles of religious ideas are sinners, and
inconsistent, and basically imperfect.
Osama was a kind of guru of vengeance for millions of muslims who feel
betrayed by the world which needs to suffer because it just won't
share everything equitably.
Now Osama is gone, there are many others who will take pride to follow
him, as he just became a martyr, not a prisoner who must face a fair
trial. Anyway, because they wanna use force to get even after decades
if not centuries of percieved abuse, we have to play their game, and
shoot back. OK, Osama killed a few thousand in
2001, but that gives nobody any licence to kill far far more of "them"
ie, all the innocents in Iraq etc etc etc I reckon any big time bomber
could achieve more if he followed Ghandi's idea of non violent protest
to make a fairer world, but its hard to get ppl motivated to all sit
in the middle of the road for a month to paralyse a country, but then
Egypt is a start so far...there are plenty of nation fulls of people
who'd completely ignore Ghandi if he was around now, or just shoot all
those who sit on roads - that's been going on in Syria. There's a
statue of Ghandi in Glebe Park, here in Canberra. When its all said
and done Ghandi was a tolerable person IMHO. Ghandi was assasinated.

We are all so lucky only a tiny minority feel so ****ed off about the
West and its decadence and greed and inhumanity that they plant bombs.
As I see it, as soon as anyone is born, they should have equal rights
to anything anywhere. But they find out the hard way nothing is for
free, its one big fight to survive. While they struggle they see ppl
in the west living lives of ease they can only dream about, and they
see that us easy living folks got that way from exploiting everyone
else and denying everyone a fair go. So while life is so grindingly
bad compared to Mr Average Australian or American, they don't mind a
bit of a bomb here and there. I doubt these malcontents could ever be
converted to peace. They ain't got nothin to lose, may as well bomb.
There is a way to fix up all this mess of existance but nobody feels
like doing much so it stays messy.

Lemme see now, it cost billions to eventually get Osama to play his
kind of game with us, man to man. There are only at least 499 left to
deal with. I'm struggling to figure that the West is winning, we seem
to want to back a regime in Pakistan who tried to hide Osama, the
secret hero. Meanwhile a war rages in Ghan and the opium flows and why
the opium cannot be stopped is a mystery. Someone is making a lotta
money. But the West can easily absorb the collateral of its failures,
so it seems. And then there are the profits to be had manipulating
Libya to accomodate the wishes of the West somewhat better than Gaffy
did. First the West lets the waring sides to slug it out, gives the
anti Gaffy face book heroes some assistance, but at the end when new
tough guys we like take over the armarments will all need to be
replaced and the West can look forward to some nice big contracts at
stella prices and a big pipe to suck the oil.

Its all beyond my control.

Patrick Turner.

[Big Bad Bob]

On 05/03/11 06:03, Patrick Turner so wittily quipped:

The old and damned ugly Donald Rump has a bad reputation as a
determined mysoginst. I read all about him in a Sydney newspaper
today.

/me wonders if that article was written by a misandronist. real men
don't give a crap what misandronist journalists think of them. heh.
And they don't eat quiche, either. [does anyone else remember that book?]

Anyway, who cares what politicians, governments, military
spokespersons or any wannabe VIP might say? I mean really, after
Wikileaks, its a changed world and nodoby need believe anyone about
anything any more. Everything is dis-information; George Orwell was
right.

it took an extra ~30 years for the general population to figure that one
out. 1984 was a typo.

at least after the WW3 'EMP' weapons destroy most everything that's
based on silicon, a lot of the tube gear should still work.

[Big Bad Bob]

On 05/03/11 17:42, Patrick Turner so wittily quipped:
His quoted sayings and those from shielas who have written books that
are negative about Rumpy make the make him look real bad. But of
course none of a man's badness stops 50% of USA voters if they are
told to vote.

no matter who you vote for, the winner will ALWAYS be a politician.
That means he'll be a corrupt liar, and will have to do political
paybacks for the money he received, yotta yotta yotta. You just have to
pick the one that (hopefully) will be LESS corrupt than 'the other guy'.
Last prez election we didn't have a lot of choice.

Anyway, who cares what politicians, governments, military
spokespersons or any wannabe VIP might say?

Seeing as how they intend to 'run things', just about everyone.

yeah, all above persons are sinister entities.

the natural order of (base) human nature, to fear that which you do not
understand, and to seek control to compensate for fear.

Fear and panic drive too much these days.

I just hope Rump don't become President and send in the helicopters at
2 am to have me face the CEOs of other toob amp makers, and dress me
up in an orange suit at Gitmo.

don't we all.

After Pakistan, maybe the 2am Chopper Team will be sent anywhere any
time.

U.S. conspiracy theorists have been talking about the 'black
helicopters' for a very long time.


for it looks like these Osama followers have
nearly sent the US broke.....

I thought it was the _OBAMA_ followers... but there ya go. Military and
'regular expenses' constitute less than 20% of the US federal budget.
The other 80% or so (35% of which is overspending) is all 'social' and
'entitlement' and 'subsidy' and things of that nature. askheritage.com
did a breakdown of it a while ago. There's a lot of unhappiness among
Americans because of this obvious inability to spend within the means.
You don't see it in the news media, but it's there.