"How do they sound?

In my system, the change from stock fuses to Isoclean fuses was
absolutely positive. The Isoclean mostly reduced distortion and grunge
while tightening up imaging and improving the sense of placement. This
kind of upgrade is so right that you accept the change as part of the
music within a few minutes. It's very much like the benefit offered by a
fine aftermarket power cord, but in miniature."


http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm

WVK

WVK wrote:
"How do they sound?

In my system, the change from stock fuses to Isoclean fuses was
absolutely positive. The Isoclean mostly reduced distortion and grunge
while tightening up imaging and improving the sense of placement. This
kind of upgrade is so right that you accept the change as part of the
music within a few minutes. It's very much like the benefit offered by a
fine aftermarket power cord, but in miniature."


http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm

A fool and his money are soon parted. I'm actually surprised that
they're only charging $25. I'll bet you'd think they sound even
better if they went for four figures apiece.

// Walt

Walt wrote, without substantiation:

WVK wrote:
"How do they sound?

In my system, the change from stock fuses to Isoclean fuses was
absolutely positive. The Isoclean mostly reduced distortion and grunge
while tightening up imaging and improving the sense of placement. This
kind of upgrade is so right that you accept the change as part of the
music within a few minutes. It's very much like the benefit offered by a
fine aftermarket power cord, but in miniature."


http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm

A fool and his money are soon parted. I'm actually surprised that
they're only charging $25. I'll bet you'd think they sound even
better if they went for four figures apiece.

// Walt

Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some evidence to show
that you've tested the things that you sweepingly dismiss (as you would
ask of others being a religious objectivist as you are), or are you
just presenting your unfounded and prejudicial opinions here? If so,
then as you have zero experience with the product you condemn, your
unsubstantiated opinions on it are worthless - and you've proven that
the fool is you.

WVK wrote:
"How do they sound?

In my system, the change from stock fuses to Isoclean fuses was
absolutely positive. The Isoclean mostly reduced distortion and grunge
while tightening up imaging and improving the sense of placement. This
kind of upgrade is so right that you accept the change as part of the
music within a few minutes. It's very much like the benefit offered by a
fine aftermarket power cord, but in miniature."


http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm

WVK

And what is it about this that bothers you people so much? Some women
pay millions of dollars to shining stones. Do I give a ****? No. Some go
to las vegas and blow away a hundred thousand dollars in a couple of
hours. So what? Some drink half of their salaries as beer and **** it
away (such people usually get miniscule salaries to boot) each and
*every* month.

And some pay 380E to interconnects, like I did. Why does this concern
you in any way?

The interconnect thing: When I connect the audition linn cd player to my
preamp with interconnects that came with my purchase of some yamaha dvd
player for my ht system, read; el cheapo black plastic stuff, I hear
russian radio plus the finnish TV channel one audio from my speakers, at
night, so much that it is clearly audible from the listening position.

When I replace the stock interconnects with the Linn "analog"
interconnects that came with the linn package, the same RFI can still be
heard but you have to stick your ear right next to the tweeters of the
speakers to actually hear it.

When I use this groneberg quattro reference interconnects (wbt plugs,
thick and *heavy* stuff) there is no form of any RF sound whatsoever
from the speakers even if you glue your ear to the tweeters. The
inherent hiss of the system is a little bit louder to the ear though..

Now to the difference in sound; the best sounding is actually the
interconnects that came with the Linn package. They display different
flavors, shades and tones in the bass heavy sounds, and the midrange and
treble region sound more analog, softer, in some strange way. With the
gronebergs much much more detail comes through, so much that the whole
stereo sounds like it's on steroids.

Yeah, I know, now you will adjust your spectacles, take a sip of dr
pepper and shout with a nerdy, squaeky voice; "you foolish audiophool,
you make me ma-ad, take a test, take a test, take a test!"

Fella wrote:

And what is it about this that bothers you people so much? Some women
pay millions of dollars to shining stones. Do I give a ****? No. Some go
to las vegas and blow away a hundred thousand dollars in a couple of
hours. So what? Some drink half of their salaries as beer and **** it
away (such people usually get miniscule salaries to boot) each and
*every* month.

And some pay 380E to interconnects, like I did. Why does this concern
you in any way?

I really could give a rat's ass about how much money you spend on luxury
items. If shiny expensive interconnects make you feel better about
yourself, go for it. They're shiny. They look pretty. They cost a
lot of money. Maybe they come in a fancy handmade oak box with a gold
leaf embosed certificate of authenticity. If these accoutremants make
your life more meaningful, who am I to deny you the pleasure? Just
don't try to tell me that they make an audible difference.

I can make any audio system much more expensive by simply laying a pile
of 100 Euro notes on top of it. It will certainly look more impressive,
but won't sound any different. What you are doing is roughly the
equivalent. If that's what floats your boat, fine.

//Walt

Walt wrote:

Fella wrote:


And what is it about this that bothers you people so much? Some women
pay millions of dollars to shining stones. Do I give a ****? No. Some
go to las vegas and blow away a hundred thousand dollars in a couple
of hours. So what? Some drink half of their salaries as beer and ****
it away (such people usually get miniscule salaries to boot) each and
*every* month.

And some pay 380E to interconnects, like I did. Why does this concern
you in any way?


I really could give a rat's ass

I don't need your rat's ass, you can keep it to yourself.

Just
don't try to tell me that they make an audible difference.


Why do you cut away the the bit about the expensive interconnects
blocking ALL interference?

And yes, they make a world of a difference. I am not *trying* to tell
you that, I *am* telling you that, and just that. You are missing out.
So there.

I can make any audio system much more expensive by simply laying a pile
of 100 Euro notes on top of it.

Dang! you're clever.

"Walt" wrote in message

Fella wrote:

And what is it about this that bothers you people so
much? Some women pay millions of dollars to shining
stones. Do I give a ****? No. Some go to las vegas and
blow away a hundred thousand dollars in a couple of
hours. So what? Some drink half of their salaries as
beer and **** it away (such people usually get miniscule
salaries to boot) each and *every* month. And some pay 380E to
interconnects, like I did. Why does
this concern you in any way?

I really could give a rat's ass about how much money you
spend on luxury items. If shiny expensive interconnects
make you feel better about yourself, go for it. They're
shiny. They look pretty. They cost a lot of money. Maybe they come in a
fancy handmade oak box with a gold
leaf embosed certificate of authenticity. If these
accoutremants make your life more meaningful, who am I to
deny you the pleasure? Just don't try to tell me that
they make an audible difference.
I can make any audio system much more expensive by simply
laying a pile of 100 Euro notes on top of it. It will
certainly look more impressive, but won't sound any
different. What you are doing is roughly the equivalent.
If that's what floats your boat, fine.

Nicely said.

However, my radical suggestion would be that if one has nothing better to do
with money than to leave a bunch of Euros sitting on top of one's speakers,
there must be some good charitable organization that could put said money to
a use that provides more benefit to both one's image of one's self and
humanity.

wrote:
Walt wrote, without substantiation:

WVK wrote:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm

A fool and his money are soon parted. I'm actually surprised that
they're only charging $25. I'll bet you'd think they sound even
better if they went for four figures apiece.

Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some evidence to show
that you've tested the things that you sweepingly dismiss...

It's on my list of things to do, right after watching the complete
reruns of Regis Philbin's collected works and emptying the Dead Sea into
the Mediterranean using a turkey baster.

//Walt

"Fella" wrote in message


Why do you cut away the the bit about the expensive
interconnects blocking ALL interference?

How about, "It's BS?"

And yes, they make a world of a difference. I am not
*trying* to tell you that, I *am* telling you that, and
just that. You are missing out. So there.

Not many of us have any interference to block out.

I can make any audio system much more expensive by
simply laying a pile of 100 Euro notes on top of it.

Dang! you're clever.

Fella, he's trying to make a point. Too bad its way over your head.

Walt wrote:

wrote:

Walt wrote, without substantiation:

WVK wrote:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm


A fool and his money are soon parted. I'm actually surprised that
they're only charging $25. I'll bet you'd think they sound even
better if they went for four figures apiece.


Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some evidence to show
that you've tested the things that you sweepingly dismiss...


It's on my list of things to do, right after watching the complete
reruns of Regis Philbin's collected works and emptying the Dead Sea into
the Mediterranean using a turkey baster.


You see this is what I don't understand. Why are we talking to each
other? You don't give a rat's ass and we don't need any rat's ass, you
don't care (???!!?!?!?!) we don't care that you don't care. Why are we
still talking about these things?! Why don't you borgs go away someplace
to discuss how everything sounds the same, etc, this is r.a.OPINION
ferchrissakes!

And Arn old boy, you don't know what I give or don't give to charity.
But your suggestion *is* a sensible one, so kudos to you on that much.


//Walt

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Fella" wrote in message



Why do you cut away the the bit about the expensive
interconnects blocking ALL interference?


How about, "It's BS?"

How about you being civil that I don't beat the living daylights out of you?



Fella, he's trying to make a point. Too bad its way over your head.



Your judgements are beyong worthless Arn old boy. You are a demagog
whore, and you very well know it, to the bone.

Fella wrote:
Walt wrote:
wrote:

Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some evidence to show
that you've tested the things that you sweepingly dismiss...

It's on my list of things to do, right after watching the complete
reruns of Regis Philbin's collected works and emptying the Dead Sea
into the Mediterranean using a turkey baster.

You see this is what I don't understand. Why are we talking to each
other?

For the sake of the children. Won't somebody think of the children?

And Arn old boy, you don't know what I give or don't give to charity.
But your suggestion *is* a sensible one, so kudos to you on that much.

Um, you've gotten me confused with Arny. Check your RAO players card.

//Walt

wrote in message
oups.com

Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some
evidence to show that you've tested the things that you
sweepingly dismiss (as you would ask of others being a
religious objectivist as you are), or are you just
presenting your unfounded and prejudicial opinions here?

This would be an excluded middle argument.

Just because someone hasn't personally tested some wild-idiot tweek like
grounding the hot wires of every speaker driver in your system to the
chassis of one of the power amps, doesn't mean that all opinions offered are
unfounded and prejudicial.

I've got a great free tweek for you SHP - find the breaker panel in your
house, open it up, and put one hand on each exposed terminal for the main HV
feed.

Before you respond to this great free tweak SHP, be sure to have actually
tried it, or we'll know that are you are incapable providing any evidence to
show that you've tested the things that you sweepingly dismiss (as you
would ask of others being a religious objectivist as you are), and are
just presenting your unfounded and prejudicial opinions here.

"WVK" wrote in message
. com...
"How do they sound?

In my system, the change from stock fuses to Isoclean fuses was absolutely
positive. The Isoclean mostly reduced distortion and grunge while
tightening up imaging and improving the sense of placement. This kind of
upgrade is so right that you accept the change as part of the music within
a few minutes. It's very much like the benefit offered by a fine
aftermarket power cord, but in miniature."


http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm

WVK

The principal problem with fuses is that they add significant resistance,
thus reducing damping factor. Some amplifiers, notably Acoustats, and Hafler
Transnovas, have been constructed without speaker fuses for this reason.

Unfortunately, a look at the picture of these fuses indicates that the
construction is exactly the same as a standard slow-blow fuse. The operating
principle of these fuses is internal heating caused by the resistance of the
fuse. When the temperature of the fuse exceeds a critical value, the fuse
pulls apart from spring tension.

It is possible to make a fuse replacement with an active circuit that heats
the fuse by an electronically controlled power source, in response to the
logically gated indication of a Hall Effect current detector. Such a fuse
could have negligible internal resistance, yet provide the same protection
as the traditional thermal design. But this fuse is not that.

Anyone who has access to these fuses can measure the resistance with a
four-wire ohm meter, and compare it to that of a standard fuse of the same
rating. I think the readings will be similar.

Walt wrote:


Um, you've gotten me confused with Arny. Check your RAO players card.

Um, i was adressing arny as in "*And* arn old boy.." um, since he will
read this post anyway to find out how he can throw up filth, anger,
demagogy, putrid hatred and polution to it as response, yes?



//Walt

"Robert Morein" wrote in message

"WVK" wrote in message
. com...
"How do they sound?

In my system, the change from stock fuses to Isoclean
fuses was absolutely positive. The Isoclean mostly
reduced distortion and grunge while tightening up
imaging and improving the sense of placement. This kind
of upgrade is so right that you accept the change as
part of the music within a few minutes. It's very much
like the benefit offered by a fine aftermarket power
cord, but in miniature."
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm

WVK

The principal problem with fuses is that they add
significant resistance, thus reducing damping factor.

Actually, speaker fuses are pretty rare in modern amps.

Some amplifiers, notably Acoustats, and Hafler
Transnovas, have been constructed without speaker fuses
for this reason.

As a rule most amps have only line fuses and fuses on the main power supply
lines.

Unfortunately, a look at the picture of these fuses
indicates that the construction is exactly the same as a
standard slow-blow fuse.

Most line fuses are SB, most power supply fuses are standard-blow.

The operating principle of these
fuses is internal heating caused by the resistance of the
fuse. When the temperature of the fuse exceeds a critical
value, the fuse pulls apart from spring tension.

Or for standard fuses it's a combination of gravity and natural thermal
distoriton of the metal.

It is possible to make a fuse replacement with an active
circuit that heats the fuse by an electronically
controlled power source, in response to the logically
gated indication of a Hall Effect current detector. Such
a fuse could have negligible internal resistance, yet
provide the same protection as the traditional thermal
design. But this fuse is not that.

Very few amps ever get there because the system they use is cheap and
effective.

Anyone who has access to these fuses can measure the
resistance with a four-wire ohm meter, and compare it to
that of a standard fuse of the same rating. I think the
readings will be similar.

In fact there's a well-known potentially audible problem with speaker line
fuses. They tend to add appreciable amounts of nonlineari distortion at low
frequencies. Reference: Greiner's well-known 1980 JAES paper:

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=3987

"Walt" wrote in message

Fella wrote:
Walt wrote:
wrote:

Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some
evidence to show that you've tested the things that
you sweepingly dismiss...

It's on my list of things to do, right after watching
the complete reruns of Regis Philbin's collected works
and emptying the Dead Sea into the Mediterranean using
a turkey baster.

You see this is what I don't understand. Why are we
talking to each other?

For the sake of the children. Won't somebody think of
the children?
And Arn old boy, you don't know what I give or don't
give to charity. But your suggestion *is* a sensible
one, so kudos to you on that much.

Um, you've gotten me confused with Arny. Check your RAO
players card.

It appears that Fella thinks that everybody who talks sense around here is
me. Thanks for providing some needed support and initiative for the rational
approach to audio.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Walt" wrote in message


Fella wrote:

Walt wrote:

wrote:

Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some
evidence to show that you've tested the things that
you sweepingly dismiss...

It's on my list of things to do, right after watching
the complete reruns of Regis Philbin's collected works
and emptying the Dead Sea into the Mediterranean using
a turkey baster.

You see this is what I don't understand. Why are we
talking to each other?

For the sake of the children. Won't somebody think of
the children?

And Arn old boy, you don't know what I give or don't
give to charity. But your suggestion *is* a sensible
one, so kudos to you on that much.

Um, you've gotten me confused with Arny. Check your RAO
players card.


It appears that Fella thinks

Blah blah blah, jabber jabber jabber, already answered your lesser borg,
don't pretend that you didn't read it. Arn your putrid demagog whore
facade is worn out, it's yucky, gooky, poluted, smells like foul spirit
arn, it smells bad arn old chum, get a facelift.

That's why you are so foul and out of place in front of she-esthetics
(Jenn). That's why everyone nears the point of throwing up everytime
they read one of your demagog whore answers to that graceful lady. (the
only one here I might add!)

And stop using that word "gratioutious, gratitious" or whatever.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Robert Morein" wrote in message

"WVK" wrote in message
. com...
"How do they sound?

In my system, the change from stock fuses to Isoclean
fuses was absolutely positive. The Isoclean mostly
reduced distortion and grunge while tightening up
imaging and improving the sense of placement. This kind
of upgrade is so right that you accept the change as
part of the music within a few minutes. It's very much
like the benefit offered by a fine aftermarket power
cord, but in miniature."
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm

WVK

The principal problem with fuses is that they add
significant resistance, thus reducing damping factor.

Actually, speaker fuses are pretty rare in modern amps.

Some amplifiers, notably Acoustats, and Hafler
Transnovas, have been constructed without speaker fuses
for this reason.

As a rule most amps have only line fuses and fuses on the main power
supply lines.

Unfortunately, a look at the picture of these fuses
indicates that the construction is exactly the same as a
standard slow-blow fuse.

Most line fuses are SB, most power supply fuses are standard-blow.

The operating principle of these
fuses is internal heating caused by the resistance of the
fuse. When the temperature of the fuse exceeds a critical
value, the fuse pulls apart from spring tension.

Or for standard fuses it's a combination of gravity and natural thermal
distoriton of the metal.

It is possible to make a fuse replacement with an active
circuit that heats the fuse by an electronically
controlled power source, in response to the logically
gated indication of a Hall Effect current detector. Such
a fuse could have negligible internal resistance, yet
provide the same protection as the traditional thermal
design. But this fuse is not that.

Very few amps ever get there because the system they use is cheap and
effective.

Anyone who has access to these fuses can measure the
resistance with a four-wire ohm meter, and compare it to
that of a standard fuse of the same rating. I think the
readings will be similar.

In fact there's a well-known potentially audible problem with speaker line
fuses. They tend to add appreciable amounts of nonlineari distortion at
low frequencies. Reference: Greiner's well-known 1980 JAES paper:

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=3987
They want $5.00 for the download. Arny, would you be so kind as to give a
little abstract on that part of it? It sounds very interesting.

François Yves Le Gal wrote:

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:11:53 +0200, Fella wrote:


Why do you cut away the the bit about the expensive interconnects
blocking ALL interference?


Properly designed and manufactured interconencts don't need to be expensive.



Well if you call 380E expensive, it's all relative to where you are
standing. Though if you do have pointers to 10E interconnects that do
the same trick as these groneberg ones do, that I don't listen to
russian arias mixed with my charlie haden then please do forward pointer
to them here. FYI I did try a brand called "hama" off the shelf sold in
a vacuum cleaner + washing machine + sony dvd player kind of a
"department store" shop. Paid 10E to'em (when I first heard this rfi
tendency where I am living) and they did not do the trick,
unfortunately, though they were thicker and looked better then the stock
stuff.

"Robert Morein" wrote in message


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...


In fact there's a well-known potentially audible problem
with speaker line fuses. They tend to add appreciable
amounts of nonlinear distortion at low frequencies. Reference: Greiner's
well-known 1980 JAES paper:

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=3987

They want $5.00 for the download. Arny, would you be so
kind as to give a little abstract on that part of it? It
sounds very interesting.

Greiner just reiterated what were at that time, some well-known facts. One
of the things that makes fuses work well is the fact that they typically
have a substantial positive temperature coefficient. Fuses of a size that
you might use with many speakers (1-3 amps) also have a thermal time
constant that is signficiant at low audio frequencies. So the fuse's
resistance can be modulated by bass, which can cause intermodulation
distoriton if the fuse also passes the treble.

This problem can and usual is addressed by fusing the bass and treble
drivers separately. It is usually just the tweeter fuse that is likely to
be small enough to have serious problems with thermal modulation by the
bass. If the tweter fuse sees no bass then there still might be some thermal
modulation by the envelope of the music, but its not as audible as
modulation by the bass.

There's usually going to be some thermal modulation with conventional
drivers due to heating of the voice coil(s). It's not like speakers are all
that linear aside from these problems.

"François Yves Le Gal" wrote in
message
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:06:51 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:

Arny, would you be so kind as to give a
little abstract on that part of it? It sounds very
interesting.

Check "Cables and the Amplifier/Speaker Interface", a
somewhat modified version of Geriner's AES paper.

http://www.audio-muziek.nl/audiotechniek/cables.htm

Seems like a fair replica of the original.

I note the following:

"Choose a cable that has reasonably low resistance-say, less than 5% of the
lowest resistance of the loudspeaker at any frequency."

This allows the cable to add up to 0.5 dB frequency response variations,
which could be just barely audible. I generally recommend larger cables.

"Choose a twisted pair of wires to reduce or eliminate any possible
crosstalk between wire pairs or from parallel power cords."

Twisted pair wire also minimizes inductance, which can also cause audible
response problems when speakers have low impedance above 5 KHz. This is not
uncommon with certain kinds of planar, ribbon, and electrostatic speaker
drivers.

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"François Yves Le Gal" wrote in
message
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:06:51 -0500, "Robert Morein"
wrote:

Arny, would you be so kind as to give a
little abstract on that part of it? It sounds very
interesting.

Check "Cables and the Amplifier/Speaker Interface", a
somewhat modified version of Geriner's AES paper.

http://www.audio-muziek.nl/audiotechniek/cables.htm

Seems like a fair replica of the original.

I note the following:

"Choose a cable that has reasonably low resistance-say, less than 5% of the
lowest resistance of the loudspeaker at any frequency."

This allows the cable to add up to 0.5 dB frequency response variations,
which could be just barely audible. I generally recommend larger cables.

"Choose a twisted pair of wires to reduce or eliminate any possible
crosstalk between wire pairs or from parallel power cords."

Twisted pair wire also minimizes inductance, which can also cause audible
response problems when speakers have low impedance above 5 KHz. This is not
uncommon with certain kinds of planar, ribbon, and electrostatic speaker
drivers.

Good info to know....thanks.

Fella wrote:
François Yves Le Gal wrote:
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:11:53 +0200, Fella wrote:

Why do you cut away the the bit about the expensive interconnects
blocking ALL interference?

Properly designed and manufactured interconencts don't need to be
expensive.

Agreed.

Well if you call 380E expensive, it's all relative to where you are
standing.

For a meter or two of wire it is.

Though if you do have pointers to 10E interconnects that do
the same trick as these groneberg ones do, that I don't listen to
russian arias mixed with my charlie haden then please do forward pointer
to them here.

Belden 8451. Workhorse pro cable that functions quite welll in high RF
environments, e.g. transmitter shacks. I can't imagine that the RF
fields in your flat are high enough to necessitate anything more.

FYI I did try a brand called "hama" off the shelf sold in
a vacuum cleaner + washing machine + sony dvd player kind of a
"department store" shop. Paid 10E to'em (when I first heard this rfi
tendency where I am living) and they did not do the trick,
unfortunately, though they were thicker and looked better then the stock
stuff.

You've got an RFI problem, and unless you live in the shadow of a high
power transmitter it's probably the fault of the gear itself as much as
it is the fault of the interconnects. Normal situations don't call for
fancy cable to eliminate RFI. Sounds like something strange is going on
here; needing to spend a pantload of money to get rid if the RFI is
quite unusual, but at least it's a difference you can actually hear.

If you're happy with it, just listen and be happy.

//Walt

"François Yves Le Gal" wrote in
message
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:40:39 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

I generally recommend larger cables.

As quality cables are quite cheap, I always use at least
the metric equivalent of 4 x 14 AWG in double twisted
pair configs and quite often go up to 4 x 12 AWG.

Low R, low L, low cost...

I did some tests on cables and found little advantage to more than 2
strands.

http://www.pcavtech.com/techtalk/wire_size/index.htm

Specifically the Monster cable versus the regular 12 gauge.

Not shown are measurements of some cable I made up of 4 pair 24 gauge,
tightly twisted (IOW CAT 5 stripped and all pairs twisted together into 1
bundle, then separated out for termination) . Surprisingly, not much
different, including inductance.

Walt said:

Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some evidence to show
that you've tested the things that you sweepingly dismiss...

It's on my list of things to do, right after watching the complete
reruns of Regis Philbin's collected works and emptying the Dead Sea into
the Mediterranean using a turkey baster.

'borgs are not licensed for sarcasm. Your Hive membership is under
review. Do you live in Michigan?

wrote:
I hesitate to intrude into this discussion between people
who know
infinitely more about electronics than I do.
Just a fact from past experience. Whenever I experienced
RFI inter-
ference I found it to be due to inadequately soldered ground in the RCA
plug,
poor or broken shield, poorly fitting plug etc. Since I have a lot of
Kimber
style (two ground wires plus one signal wire ) home-made silver cables
and am a hopelees solderer I have vast learning experience.

Your experience matches mine - 90% or more of the time when there's an
RFI problem it's a cable or connector that's broken. And the problem
can be fixed by repairing the cable, or replacing it with one that's not
broken.

The other 10% of the time, it's a grounding topology problem or the
electronic gear itself. Some stuff just does a poor job of rejecting RF.

//Walt

François Yves Le Gal wrote:
Walt wrote:

Belden 8451.

Not expensive enough at roughly USD 0,15/ft.

True enough, but the fact that half the recordings in most people's
collections have had their signal pass through several meters of it
already would indicate that another couple of feet of it won't degrade
the signal very much.

//Walt

Walt said:


[Ludo, I reformatted your post so that it is easier to read]

I hesitate to intrude into this discussion between people
who know infinitely more about electronics than I do.
Just a fact from past experience. Whenever I experienced
RFI interference I found it to be due to inadequately soldered ground in the RCA
plug, poor or broken shield, poorly fitting plug etc.

Since I have a lot of Kimber style (two ground wires plus one signal wire )
home-made silver cables and am a hopelees solderer I have vast learning experience.


Your experience matches mine - 90% or more of the time when there's an
RFI problem it's a cable or connector that's broken. And the problem
can be fixed by repairing the cable, or replacing it with one that's not
broken.


Add to that that some high end cinch cables are not soldered, but the
cable core and shield are held in place by screws or bushings of some
kind.
If you're lucky, that will make contact for about the first week after
purchasing.


The other 10% of the time, it's a grounding topology problem or the
electronic gear itself. Some stuff just does a poor job of rejecting RF.


In my high end days, I've had a Spectral DMA180 going berserk because
of a nearby cell phone.
Not even the use of the recommended MIT lowpass filters could prevent
the power stage from going up in flames.....
(the MITs were soldered nicely, though)

They immediately sent another one to that customer, free of charge.
Nice guys there in Sunnyvale CA ;-)

--

- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -

Sander deWaal wrote:
Walt said:

Your experience matches mine - 90% or more of the time when there's an
RFI problem it's a cable or connector that's broken. And the problem
can be fixed by repairing the cable, or replacing it with one that's not
broken.

Add to that that some high end cinch cables are not soldered, but the
cable core and shield are held in place by screws or bushings of some
kind.
If you're lucky, that will make contact for about the first week after
purchasing.

That's part of the charm - it's finicky, demanding, and high
maintenence. You get to interact with it, sort of like having your very
own inanimate soprano. (c:

OK, not all of it, most of the premium cable I've seen seems to be
fairly well constructed, it's just overpriced, and the sonic improvement
that's claimed is illusury.

Also, I'd hasten to add that solder is not the be-all end-all for cable
reliability - I've seen bantam-style TRS cables that are held together
with strews and crimps last decades.

//Walt

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Walt" wrote in message

Fella wrote:
Walt wrote:
wrote:

Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some
evidence to show that you've tested the things that
you sweepingly dismiss...

It's on my list of things to do, right after watching
the complete reruns of Regis Philbin's collected works
and emptying the Dead Sea into the Mediterranean using
a turkey baster.

You see this is what I don't understand. Why are we
talking to each other?

For the sake of the children. Won't somebody think of
the children?
And Arn old boy, you don't know what I give or don't
give to charity. But your suggestion *is* a sensible
one, so kudos to you on that much.

Um, you've gotten me confused with Arny. Check your RAO
players card.

It appears that Fella thinks that everybody who talks sense around here is
me. Thanks for providing some needed support and initiative for the rational
approach to audio.

Thanks for admitting that you and your crew of religious objectivist
extremists needs the support and is suffering from a lack of morale.
That pretty much confirmed by impressions.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"François Yves Le Gal" wrote in
message
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:40:39 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

I generally recommend larger cables.

As quality cables are quite cheap, I always use at least
the metric equivalent of 4 x 14 AWG in double twisted
pair configs and quite often go up to 4 x 12 AWG.

Low R, low L, low cost...

I did some tests on cables and found little advantage to more than 2
strands.

http://www.pcavtech.com/techtalk/wire_size/index.htm

Specifically the Monster cable versus the regular 12 gauge.

Not shown are measurements of some cable I made up of 4 pair 24 gauge,
tightly twisted (IOW CAT 5 stripped and all pairs twisted together into 1
bundle, then separated out for termination) . Surprisingly, not much
different, including inductance.

Uh-uh, sorry. If you're comparing Cat 5 type to Monster type stranded,
it would be insane to say there's not much difference. I compared a set
of braided CAT 5 speaker wires that I made for someone (no doubt a more
intelligent recipe than what you have described), to some Vampire wire
I had lying around (Vampire is a Monster knock-off, It was not as thick
as my basic Monster wire, the guage was probably either 12 or 16).

An objectivist would have marvelled at the sound of the CAT 5. I
preferred the rather plain looking Vampire. NO ONE would have been
unable to tell the difference, even in a regular blind test. There is a
long list of obvious differences that can be noted down. Conclusion:
your stress-induced testing methods are flawed. Your wasting your time
even comparing things under that method. People can go on the DIY
forums and ask _anyone_ doing Cat 5 wires if they can't hear a
difference compared to something like Monster. People wouldn't be
making these cables if they were no significant audible differences.

Walt wrote:

wrote:
Walt wrote, without substantiation:

WVK wrote:
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/isoclean.htm

A fool and his money are soon parted. I'm actually surprised that
they're only charging $25. I'll bet you'd think they sound even
better if they went for four figures apiece.

Speaking of fools, are you ever going to provide some evidence to show
that you've tested the things that you sweepingly dismiss...

It's on my list of things to do, right after watching the complete
reruns of Regis Philbin's collected works and emptying the Dead Sea into
the Mediterranean using a turkey baster.

//Walt

Great. Thanks for negating everything you just said by admitting that
you're an ignorant bigot with no clue as to what you're talking about,
and no evidence to dismiss an audio device out of hand.

Tweakers: 1 Ignorant Loud-Mouthed Pseudo-Objectivist Bigots: 0

Walt wrote:

Fella wrote:

And what is it about this that bothers you people so much? Some women
pay millions of dollars to shining stones. Do I give a ****? No. Some go
to las vegas and blow away a hundred thousand dollars in a couple of
hours. So what? Some drink half of their salaries as beer and **** it
away (such people usually get miniscule salaries to boot) each and
*every* month.

And some pay 380E to interconnects, like I did. Why does this concern
you in any way?

I really could give a rat's ass about how much money you spend on luxury
items. If shiny expensive interconnects make you feel better about
yourself, go for it. They're shiny. They look pretty. They cost a
lot of money. Maybe they come in a fancy handmade oak box with a gold
leaf embosed certificate of authenticity. If these accoutremants make
your life more meaningful, who am I to deny you the pleasure? Just
don't try to tell me that they make an audible difference.


....Except what you failed to realize is that he was describing stock
Linn cables that comes with LInn equipment. Last I checked, they're not
shiny, they're certainly not pretty, and they are FREE. Like my tweaks,
which you also dismissed. They don't come in fancy handmade boxes nor
carry a certficate of authenticity.

You've just proven once again that you're nothing more than an
arrogant, opinionated bigot, with ZERO experience about the products or
tweak techniques you dismiss out of hand. Thanks again for proving my
point about you, Walt.

No one's "trying" tell you these things make enormous audible
differences. They ARE telling you that. And no one is trying to deny
your misery, if you decide to listen to sonic garbage for an audio
system.

If you can ever show evidence for your worthless opinions, let me know.

I can make any audio system much more expensive by simply laying a pile
of 100 Euro notes on top of it. It will certainly look more impressive,
but won't sound any different. What you are doing is roughly the
equivalent. If that's what floats your boat, fine.

//Walt

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Walt" wrote in message

Fella wrote:

And what is it about this that bothers you people so
much? Some women pay millions of dollars to shining
stones. Do I give a ****? No. Some go to las vegas and
blow away a hundred thousand dollars in a couple of
hours. So what? Some drink half of their salaries as
beer and **** it away (such people usually get miniscule
salaries to boot) each and *every* month. And some pay 380E to
interconnects, like I did. Why does
this concern you in any way?

I really could give a rat's ass about how much money you
spend on luxury items. If shiny expensive interconnects
make you feel better about yourself, go for it. They're
shiny. They look pretty. They cost a lot of money. Maybe they come in a
fancy handmade oak box with a gold
leaf embosed certificate of authenticity. If these
accoutremants make your life more meaningful, who am I to
deny you the pleasure? Just don't try to tell me that
they make an audible difference.
I can make any audio system much more expensive by simply
laying a pile of 100 Euro notes on top of it. It will
certainly look more impressive, but won't sound any
different. What you are doing is roughly the equivalent.
If that's what floats your boat, fine.

Nicely said.

However, my radical suggestion would be that if one has nothing better to
do with money than to leave a bunch of Euros sitting on top of one's
speakers, there must be some good charitable organization that could put
said money to a use that provides more benefit to both one's image of
one's self and humanity.


You can wipe your ass with them, oh, I forgot,
you've been there, done that.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

wrote in message
oups.com...
:
: Thanks for admitting that you and your crew of religious objectivist
: extremists needs the support and is suffering from a lack of morale.
: That pretty much confirmed by impressions.
:
err, it needs some working on, SHP :-)
may i suggest you take a trip down google with
"thanks for admitting" ;-)

Rudy

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
:
: I've got a great free tweek for you SHP - find the breaker panel in your
: house, open it up, and put one hand on each exposed terminal for the main HV
: feed.
:
: Before you respond to this great free tweak SHP, be sure to have actually
: tried it, or we'll know that are you are incapable providing any evidence to
: show that you've tested the things that you sweepingly dismiss (as you
: would ask of others being a religious objectivist as you are), and are
: just presenting your unfounded and prejudicial opinions here.
:
hmm, well, fair'sfair,
so have to comment here as well:
it needs working on, Arn,
lot'sZ

you know what to plug into google, yerselves,
i presume

Rudy
innocent

"François Yves Le Gal" wrote in
message news
On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:24:24 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

I did some tests on cables and found little advantage to
more than 2 strands.

Try some Mogami W2921 or W3104...

Connected how?