"Troy" wrote in message
news:wV8Wd.573114$Xk.352152@pd7tw3no...
Hev.......P2P could mean mega bucks.....YES.....but the problem is no one
has figured out a way to collect royalties and make it work for all
parties
involved.

Actually, I believe there are several ways to do it, and most likely Sony
and BMG believe that too. As soon as the first wave of p2p is put out of
business (through expensive, brute-force litigation which prevents p2p
companies from growing) soemone will either buy the shell of the p2p
companies and put it to service (like Napster was bought after the 'first
wave' was over) or start their own decentralized download services.

Once you make one P2P legal and start collecting royalties 10 more
illigal ones would pop up.

Not anything that could make any money. Notice how downloading via web dried
up after the Napster debacle?

jb

"George Gleason" wrote in message
...
Hev wrote:
"George Gleason" wrote in message
...

Hev wrote:

"George Gleason" wrote in message
...




I buy just as many CD's as I ever have. I do preview a lot of stuff
online. I don't feel bad whatsoever.


so do you or do you not support the p2p freedownloading of
copyprotected works for the porpuse of obtaining for free what is
meant for sale?



I support the online downloading community.

this was the question
please simply answer it, not dance aroun d it

so do you or do you not support the p2p freedownloading of copyprotected
works for the porpuse of obtaining for free what is meant for sale?



Yes.



entire thread forwarded to RIAA
your the kind they want to know about
Thanks


Be my guest.
--

-Hev
remove your opinion to find me he
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:26:47 -0500, Trevor de Clercq
wrote:

Yeah, the "covers" Zep does on those early albums are sometimes pretty
obvious, but like I said, they could have played any blues progression
with any lyrics back in those years ('68-'71) and it would have been
gold. What made it magic was Zeppelin, not Willie. I mean Plant starts
singing about Gollum in "Ramble On". Should J.R.R. Tolkein get a slice?
Would "Ramble On" have been any less rockin' without those lyrics? I
actually think the lyrics are kind of sucky and could have been better,
but it doesn't matter, the performance is so good.

I think we're getting into the domain of artisan vs artist. here. The
Artist or creator of something original in my opinion is often not
recognized for there contribution and should be compensated for their
contribution even if it is mostly to inspire later interpretations by
talented artisans. Wouldn't it be fair to provide an income to some
elderly originator of a now re popularized art form who never made a
decent living the first time around. This is no slight on artisans who
can be artists in their own right and may be so creative as to render
the item covered unrecognizable. There was a trend to capture folk
music in the late 19th century and interpret it symphonically as a
nation pride movement was taking shape. These pieces for the most part
bare little resemblance to folk music to me. With the exception of
Vaghn Williams I barely hear the folk melody they were derived from.
The originators of the melodies were probably long dead and never
recognized.

"George Gleason" wrote in message
...
Hev wrote:
"George Gleason" wrote in message
...

Hev wrote:

"George Gleason" wrote in message
...




I buy just as many CD's as I ever have. I do preview a lot of stuff
online. I don't feel bad whatsoever.


so do you or do you not support the p2p freedownloading of
copyprotected works for the porpuse of obtaining for free what is
meant for sale?



I support the online downloading community.

this was the question
please simply answer it, not dance aroun d it

so do you or do you not support the p2p freedownloading of copyprotected
works for the porpuse of obtaining for free what is meant for sale?



Yes.


Entire thread forwarded to: http://www.boycott-riaa.com/ as well.

--

-Hev
remove your opinion to find me he
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com

George Gleason wrote:

.....snip..

This whole thread has made me want to try a new business model.


Wht don't your try HONESTY
it really is better
George

Sadly, it's about cost benefit ratios associated with the
currency of our society, and it seems in out current social
state honesty just doesn't have the value it used to.
From Martha Stewart to ENRON to pro sports, one gets the
feeling that stuff trumps values hands down.
Move into politics and it's: power corrupts ...etc.

I don't believe lawyers, jails and police can solve the problems
of the coarsening of our society. Somehow we need to learn to
be free AND responsible. I think we have a long road ahead
to get there.

Later...

Ron Capik cynic in training
--

In article writes:

It does work in this manner. So instead of going and buying a DVD I can make
an exact digital copy of any DVD I rent from Netflix. How the hell is anyone
going to sell a DVD anymore?

I always wondered why anybody bought videotapes. After all, how many
times can you watch a movie? But DVDs are, relatively speaking, dirt
cheap. If you can buy a DVD of a movie that you might watch every
couple of years, one that doesn't wear out, doesn't take up much shelf
space, comes in a storage box, and only costs $15, why not buy it? At
least until the day comes when it's easy to download a move for free
any time you want it.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

So do you believe in the war on drugs too?

What war on drugs? I believe that people who distribute drugs should
be stopped from doing it. Is that a war? Did I miss the memo?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 17:05:25 GMT, George Gleason
wrote:

your feel you have a RIGHT to free downloading, this makes the value of
this music NOTHING,

Just to pick nits, no, it's not the music that becomes devalued --
it's the recordings of the music.

Al

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 17:19:12 GMT, George Gleason
wrote:

Hev wrote:
"George Gleason" wrote in message
...

Hev wrote:

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1110074010k@trad...


In article
writes:



I hear you. So what is the answer then? P2P isn't going anywhere...
getting
worse day by day.

The answer is to work really hard to build a truly copy protected
music file. And back it up with hard penalties for violating the
copyright. Change the copyright law if necessary to make the first
offense punishable by a $1,000 fine and jail term after that. What
else can you do if you want people to know that you're serious about
not giving away copyright recordings of music?



You are a very idealistic. The only thing that would happen is users
would find a system to mask file names from industry bots. They are
already moderating incoming users and checking credentials at the door.


why work so hard to cheat a musician out of his income
geez is 12 $ all that important to you
why not put this energy into not being a complete worthless piece of ****?



I have supported the music industry my entire adult life. I don't need to
take that kind of **** from you. Just because I use p2p doesn't mean I don't
buy CD's.

you are a self admitted thief
its not my fault you choose stealing over buying
that is your problem
I just am here to tell you what a low life scum your being
George

He probably buys more CDs than you do.

Al

On 6 Mar 2005 07:58:33 -0500, (Mike Rivers) wrote:


In article writes:

So is it all doom and gloom Rivers? Do you have any suggestions?

Sure, and I've said it time and time again. Catch the thieves and put
them in jail. Eventually the theft will get down to a manageable
level.

....an absurdly unrealistic idea, even you must know that.

Al

On 2 Mar 2005 12:14:36 -0500, (Mike Rivers) wrote:


In article et writes:

Ella don't need no stinking Auto-tune, EVER!!!!

But if it had been invented while she was actively recording, would
they have used it anyway? Probably so, sadly.

And they DEFINITELY would have used it to "fix" Billie Holiday.

Can you imagine?????


Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://users.bestweb.net/~wkyee
Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 16:59:46 GMT, George Gleason
wrote:

Hev wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1110074090k@trad...

In article
writes:


So is it all doom and gloom Rivers? Do you have any suggestions?

Sure, and I've said it time and time again. Catch the thieves and put
them in jail. Eventually the theft will get down to a manageable
level.



And if that isn't possible?


teach people stealing is wrong,

Right, like that will ever happen. The latest Newsweek has convicted
criminal Martha Stewart on the cover, which also trumpets how she is
wealthier than ever since her company stock has reached new highs.
What kind of message does this send?

Al

On 6 Mar 2005 11:22:51 -0500, (Mike Rivers) wrote:


In article EIvWd.80015$wc.6852@trnddc07 writes:

Just as the music
industry would survive if they offered a service that gave me access to any
music album to listen to.

Did you forget to say, "For free...?" How much is NetFlix ?

Maybe NetFlix is only temporary until people figure out how to make
shareable copies of NetFlix movies and file transfer speeds are
fast/cheap enough to make sharing a few gigabytes at a chunk
practical.

I doubt it... even with faster transfer speed you still would have to
go through a bunch of steps to burn the DVD... unless you wanted to
watch all your movies on the computer.

Al

On 6 Mar 2005 16:57:28 -0500, (Mike Rivers) wrote:


In article writes:

So do you believe in the war on drugs too?

What war on drugs? I believe that people who distribute drugs should
be stopped from doing it. Is that a war? Did I miss the memo?

Apparently you did miss the memo. The so-called war on drugs is
nothing more than "a bag of money with a bunch of agencies' hands in
it", according to a former DEA agent. It has been totally
ineffectual. They go after small time dealers and users while doing
nothing about the sources of the dope. Afghanistan is the perfect
example.

Al

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1110139181k@trad...

In article
writes:

So do you believe in the war on drugs too?

What war on drugs? I believe that people who distribute drugs should
be stopped from doing it. Is that a war? Did I miss the memo?


You make a great straight man.

--

-Hev
remove your opinion to find me he
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:

So do you believe in the war on drugs too?

What war on drugs? I believe that people who distribute drugs should
be stopped from doing it. Is that a war? Did I miss the memo?

Yes.

Oh, and a few billion of our tax dollars went up in smoke during the past two decades trying to win it. Meanwhile, the average age of a hard drug addict keeps going down here in the US--while in Holland the average age is increasing.

If we take the profit out of the distribution business, the criminals will get out of the business of distribution.

In article writes:

If music were distributed 100 percent online, you'd
just have an app with end to end, rotating key encryption.

Sounds like a piece of cake. So why hasn't the industry thought of
this? The necessity of making a real time copy will stop piracy dead
in its tracks. The only reason why they do it is because it's no
trouble now for the "provider" to put music on line. It would be very
hard to steal music without (heaven forbid) listening to it as you steal it,
and having some kind of recording device outside the PC, then running it
back into the PC in real time.

But somehow I don't think the solution is quite so simple. They tried
making CDs that wouldn't play in a computer drive but they caused
enough other problems (as well as an outcry from purchasers who
figured they had the right to play it in their computer if they wanted
to) that I think the system has been dropped, and nothing has come
along to replace it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Mike Rivers wrote:
In article
writes:

So do you believe in the war on drugs too?

What war on drugs? I believe that people who distribute drugs should
be stopped from doing it. Is that a war? Did I miss the memo?

Yes.

Oh, and a few billion of our tax dollars went up in smoke during the past
two decades trying to win it. Meanwhile, the average age of a hard drug
addict keeps going down here in the US--while in Holland the average age is
increasing.

If we take the profit out of the distribution business, the criminals will
get out of the business of distribution.

Unless they're digitized drugs. Then they are shared for free.

jb

Bob Cain wrote in
:



Hev wrote:

Theoretically if the products in my store could be downloaded, and
that was the new way my customers wanted to receive my products.... I
would ADAPT a service that allowed them to do so. The recording
industry has not adapted and p2p is the side-effect of this.

Empty words without a workable proposal for this so called
adaption. You've offered nothing of substance and are
blinded by the smoke you're blowing up your own ass to make
it ok to steal.

The only adaption that works without a revolution in
protection technology is removing money from all but live
performance and I think you are going to be _very_
disappointed with what remains. The cacaphony and bandwidth
of the internet provides no effective means of selection,
promotion or artist development. You'll get what you can
see and that's about it.

You totally disregard the value value added by the current
industry configuration and I think I can safely guess that
you see none. You will in its absence. It really ****es me
off that your theieving generation may well steal it from
those of us who value it. If that is the nature of your
generation's ethics, god help you.


Bob


Being the slimeball and scumbag that he is, is hardly in a credible
position to comment on someone else's ethics.

Bob Cain wrote in
:



play on wrote:

And if what "all other businesses do" is a yardstick for ethics, spare
me. I can certainly be argued that the music business in general is
an ethically-challenged environment when compared to others.

C'mon, Al. _All_ business, top to bottom, big to small
operates on the principle of paying as little as possible
for something it will, in turn, sell for as much as it can
get consistent with people buying it. Always has, always will.

The music business is _no_ different except for the fact
that high bandwidth personal interconnect is destroying its
ability to do business by enabling rampant theft. The only
reason that the publishing business isn't in similar trouble
is that people who still read tend to have better ethics.


Bob


Being the slimeball, scumbag that he is, Bob Cain is hardly in a credible
position to comment on anyone else's ethics.

Hev wrote:

I still remember the floppy disks (that were actually
floppy) that were the size of my head.

I was the very first floppy user internal to IBM in about
1968 and coded the first IBM channel attached controler to
write them. Our controler was a four bit unit that could
access 4K digits of ram. It had the first load/store risc
architecture. In fact it had no logical or arithemetic
instructions at all and did only load, store, branch on
accumulator zero, branch, and branch and link. Logic and
arithmetic was done by table lookup in subroutines using
self modifying code. It could do anything, albiet slowly.

I saw six or seven iterations, all radically different, of
that 8" floppy design before the designers finally settled
on the oxide coated mylar disc in an envelope. Some of them
were absolutely laughable mechanically.

The floppy was invented as a device for loading microcode
and microdiagnostics into the mainframes that I was involved
in designing. The rest is, as they say, history. :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Gidney and Cloyd wrote:
Bob Cain wrote:

No, mine was an IBM 7094 with punched card reader and 9 track tapes.
I was designing mainframes by 1967 and coding 8 bit microprocessor
systems by 1975. :-)


1st interactive use: Illiac II in 1965. Bet I could still program an
IBM 029 drum card.

O'mgod I'd totally forgotten about those!


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1110147139k@trad...

In article
writes:

If music were distributed 100 percent online, you'd
just have an app with end to end, rotating key encryption.

Sounds like a piece of cake. So why hasn't the industry thought of
this?

It would require selling -no- CD hardcopy whatsoever, which is how they make
most of their money from what I understand. So they're caught between the
rock and the hard place.


The necessity of making a real time copy will stop piracy dead
in its tracks.

At least bring it to where it was ten years ago.


hard to steal music without (heaven forbid) listening to it as you steal
it,
and having some kind of recording device outside the PC, then running it
back into the PC in real time.

But somehow I don't think the solution is quite so simple. They tried
making CDs that wouldn't play in a computer drive but they caused
enough other problems (as well as an outcry from purchasers who
figured they had the right to play it in their computer if they wanted
to) that I think the system has been dropped, and nothing has come
along to replace it.


I think the long term solution would be to move to some disc format that
PC's don't easily play, but could be licensed to electronics manufacturers
for DVD players. That's problematic, but the industry has done that kind of
thing before. Meanwhile, the profits from legal online services could grow
to outstrip the loss from p2p.

jb

George Gleason wrote:

works for me
I can abide sun worship


Except that Syracuse never gets any. ; )

"Ron Capik" wrote in message ...


Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:

So is it all doom and gloom Rivers? Do you have any suggestions?

Sure, and I've said it time and time again. Catch the thieves and put
them in jail. Eventually the theft will get down to a manageable
level.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )

Hmmm, sounds a bit like the "war" on drugs.

Later...

Ron Capik cynic in training


No no.... that was a cover-up operation.

"Hev" wrote in message...

"Ron Capik" wrote in message

Hmmm, sounds a bit like the "war" on drugs.

Exactly what I was thinking....


I'm sure it was. "Let's tell the country we're not, while we do...".

Sometimes people think it's better to just lie about what they do.

"Hev" wrote in message....


This whole thread has made me want to try a new business model.


You're probably correct. Lying in this case would be far more advantageous.

"Ron Capik" wrote in message...

Somehow we need to learn to be free AND responsible. I think
we have a long road ahead to get there.


I have the most disconcerting premonition.... we are going to crash
and burn hard before that happens. It seems the whole world wants
to see us learn some serious lessons because of people like this.

"play on" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 16:59:46 GMT, George Gleason
wrote:

Hev wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1110074090k@trad...

In article
writes:


So is it all doom and gloom Rivers? Do you have any suggestions?

Sure, and I've said it time and time again. Catch the thieves and put
them in jail. Eventually the theft will get down to a manageable
level.



And if that isn't possible?


teach people stealing is wrong,

Right, like that will ever happen. The latest Newsweek has convicted
criminal Martha Stewart on the cover, which also trumpets how she is
wealthier than ever since her company stock has reached new highs.
What kind of message does this send?


That was Matha's face, nothing more. Newsweek says what they want
to say. FWIW, I think she got screwed anyway.

"reddred" wrote in message...

ipv6 will go a long way towards killing 'sharing', among other things.


Wow... this was totally new to me. http://www.ipv6.org/

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 15:30:41 GMT, Ron Capik
wrote:



Mike Rivers wrote:

In article writes:

So is it all doom and gloom Rivers? Do you have any suggestions?

Sure, and I've said it time and time again. Catch the thieves and put
them in jail. Eventually the theft will get down to a manageable
level.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )

Hmmm, sounds a bit like the "war" on drugs.

No, unlike the War On Drugs, the "war on downloading of
unauthorized copyrighted material" attempts to protect rights:
specifically, the intellectual property rights of the authors of the
material.
The War On Drugs only takes away rights, often of people who have
nothing to do with the illegal drugs the War On Drugs is trying to
stop.

For some interesting reading, Google for this:
war on drugs asset forfeiture
and read any or all of the articles returned on the first page.


Later...

Ron Capik cynic in training

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 16:48:50 -0800, Kurt Albershardt
wrote:

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes:

So do you believe in the war on drugs too?

What war on drugs? I believe that people who distribute drugs should
be stopped from doing it. Is that a war? Did I miss the memo?

Yes.

I posted this in the Doonesbury thread (I've read about one percent
of the posts in it), but thought it would be good to put it here as
well, where it's "on topic" in this off-topic thread:

For some interesting reading, Google for this:
war on drugs asset forfeiture
and read any or all of the articles returned on the first page.

I bet you won't say "what war on drugs" after reading those, even
though the War On Drugs appears to be doing a better job eliminating
civil liberties than eliminating drugs.


Oh, and a few billion of our tax dollars went up in smoke during the past two decades trying to win it. Meanwhile, the average age of a hard drug addict keeps going down here in the US--while in Holland the average age is increasing.

If we take the profit out of the distribution business, the criminals will get out of the business of distribution.

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 04:51:38 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
wrote:


"play on" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 16:59:46 GMT, George Gleason
wrote:

Hev wrote:
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1110074090k@trad...

In article
writes:


So is it all doom and gloom Rivers? Do you have any suggestions?

Sure, and I've said it time and time again. Catch the thieves and put
them in jail. Eventually the theft will get down to a manageable
level.



And if that isn't possible?


teach people stealing is wrong,

Right, like that will ever happen. The latest Newsweek has convicted
criminal Martha Stewart on the cover, which also trumpets how she is
wealthier than ever since her company stock has reached new highs.
What kind of message does this send?


That was Matha's face, nothing more.

I disagree -- the copy on the cover is saying how she's doing better
than ever, etc. So don't let a little unethical behavoir stop you,
kids.

Newsweek says what they want
to say. FWIW, I think she got screwed anyway.

Perhaps she did. I guess they were trying to make an example of
her... if so, it doesn't seem to be working now.

Al

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 05:04:30 GMT, Ben Bradley
wrote:


For some interesting reading, Google for this:
war on drugs asset forfeiture
and read any or all of the articles returned on the first page.

There was a local Seattle man who lost his Porche... when driving into
Canada, the authorities found a roach that his son had left a gym bag
that was sitting in the back seat. They seized a $40,000 car over
about $1 worth of pot.

Al

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

I have the most disconcerting premonition.... we are going to crash
and burn hard before that happens. It seems the whole world wants
to see us learn some serious lessons because of people like this.

The world has gone mad and we are so caught up in the
madness that we can't see it for what it is.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:
"reddred" wrote in message...


ipv6 will go a long way towards killing 'sharing', among other things.



Wow... this was totally new to me. http://www.ipv6.org/

Sorta ironic that the link to the FAQ is broken. And we're
supposed to trust these guys with defining a new IP
protocol? :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

"play on" wrote in message...

Right, like that will ever happen. The latest Newsweek has convicted
criminal Martha Stewart on the cover, which also trumpets how she is
wealthier than ever since her company stock has reached new highs.
What kind of message does this send?


That was Martha's face, nothing more.

I disagree -- the copy on the cover is saying how she's doing better
than ever, etc. So don't let a little unethical behavoir stop you,
kids.

I wasn't referring to the copy... which you're quite right in pointing out
sets a grossly poor example. I was talking about the cover layout...
which was totally contrived artwork with the exception of Martha's head.
If they can do that to the cover art, what's to keep them from contriving
equal portions of story content these days?

DM

In article writes:

...an absurdly unrealistic idea, even you must know that.

Well then, how about public floggings? What else is going to make an
impression on these people that they're doing something wrong and that
they should stop?

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

The latest Newsweek has convicted
criminal Martha Stewart on the cover, which also trumpets how she is
wealthier than ever since her company stock has reached new highs.
What kind of message does this send?

That her company does better with her out of the way, in jail. Just
like record companies would do better with music pirates out of the
way, in jail.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1110158934k@trad...

In article
writes:

...an absurdly unrealistic idea, even you must know that.

Well then, how about public floggings? What else is going to make an
impression on these people that they're doing something wrong and that
they should stop?


You obviously have nothing to come with as far as a solution is concerned.

"damn kids!"


--

-Hev
remove your opinion to find me he
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com