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bigwig bigwig is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

Hello,
I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters had
taken it into their little heads that denting in my tweeters was a
good idea. They must have done one a while ago and I caught my
youngest systematically destroying the other with a christmas card. I
was displeased to say the least, only just calmed down now.
The speakers are Monitor Audio Silver S5s. The origonal tweets
appear to be Audax units with the same mounting as these
http://seas.worldomain.net/pdf/H623.pdf
they are metal/ceramic dome and need the same mounting because they
are let into a routed out recess.
Does anyone know of any other manufacturers tweets that will do? I
dont mind a fabric dome as they were a bit tiring and I was thinking
of replacing them at some point, just that now my hand has been
forced.
Thanks Matt.
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Patrick Turner Patrick Turner is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds



bigwig wrote:

Hello,
I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters had
taken it into their little heads that denting in my tweeters was a
good idea. They must have done one a while ago and I caught my
youngest systematically destroying the other with a christmas card. I
was displeased to say the least, only just calmed down now.
The speakers are Monitor Audio Silver S5s. The origonal tweets
appear to be Audax units with the same mounting as these
http://seas.worldomain.net/pdf/H623.pdf
they are metal/ceramic dome and need the same mounting because they
are let into a routed out recess.
Does anyone know of any other manufacturers tweets that will do? I
dont mind a fabric dome as they were a bit tiring and I was thinking
of replacing them at some point, just that now my hand has been
forced.
Thanks Matt.


My sympathies. Maybe female hate of Hi-Fi starts at an early age.
Anyway, you should have cloth covers over the drivers to hide them.

Soft dome fabic SEAS drivers or higher quality Peerless might do but you
may have to adjust the woodwork to fit them. If the Little Darlings push
the domes inwards, they usually spring out again without d-forming the
voice coil. But not the metal dome types which usually are a write off
after being pushed inwards. But if you do change tweeters, you have to
perhaps adjust the series C, shunt L and maybe series R of the crossover
to get the same flat response. This is the work of the expert.

Patrick Turner.
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tubegarden tubegarden is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

need the same mounting because they
are let into a routed out recess.


Hi RATs!

Your daughters were prolly in self defense mode - little girls can
hear high frequencies men only imagine.

Any tweeters will do, the smooth mounting is just eyewash for retail
buyers,

Happy Ears!
Al

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bigwig bigwig is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

On 14 Dec, 13:59, tubegarden wrote:
*need the same mounting because they

are let into a routed out recess.


Hi RATs!

Your daughters were prolly in self defense mode - little girls can
hear high frequencies men only imagine.

Any tweeters will do, the smooth mounting is just eyewash for retail
buyers,

Happy Ears!
Al


Ha Ha, yes I never thought of that.
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BretLudwig BretLudwig is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

Bull****, they were just being kids-kids will tear up anything out of
idle curiosity. That's why you keep kids and serious equipment strictly
separate.

Tweeters make a big difference.

--
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More information at http://www.talkaboutaudio.com/faq.html



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bigwig bigwig is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

On 14 Dec, 13:01, Patrick Turner wrote:
bigwig wrote:

Hello,
* I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
* * I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters had
taken it into their little heads that denting in my tweeters was a
good idea. They must have done one a while ago and I caught my
youngest systematically destroying the other with a christmas card. I
was displeased to say the least, only just calmed down now.
* *The speakers are Monitor Audio Silver S5s. The origonal tweets
appear to be Audax units with the same mounting as these
http://seas.worldomain.net/pdf/H623.pdf
they are metal/ceramic dome and need the same mounting because they
are let into a routed out recess.
* Does anyone know of any other manufacturers tweets that will do? I
dont mind a fabric dome as they were a bit tiring and I was thinking
of replacing them at some point, just that now my hand has been
forced.
* * * * * Thanks Matt.


My sympathies. Maybe female hate of Hi-Fi starts at an early age.
Anyway, you should have cloth covers over the drivers to hide them.

Soft dome fabic SEAS drivers or higher quality Peerless might do but you
may have to adjust the woodwork to fit them. If the Little Darlings push
the domes inwards, they usually spring out again without d-forming the
voice coil. But not the metal dome types which usually are a write off
after being pushed inwards. But if you do change tweeters, you have to
perhaps adjust the series C, shunt L and maybe series R of the crossover
to get the same flat response. This is the work of the expert.

Patrick Turner.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Thanks Patrick,
They do have covers but the tweets are very close to them and the
lovely gold colour seems to attract them like magpies. Your right the
one tweet is a total right off, the voice coil is scraping the magnet.
The other one I managed to suck out with the vacuum cleaner, I had
nothing to lose. Its still no good though really. The cross overs are
a second order job. How do I work out the maths to get a flat response
again?. I am going to go with the cloth Seas units because the tweets
are butted right up to the top bass/mid and chopping them about would
end up with an oval hole and nowhere to put the bottom screws for the
tweeter.
Matt.
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fryzz fryzz is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

Did you try the old suck-the-domes-back-out-with-the-vacuum-cleaner-
trick? I don't know if it will work on a metal dome, but it's worth a
shot since they're broken anyway.

You're going to severely limit your options if you insist on staying
with the same footprint. A little careful work with a good sharp
chisel might turn the trick.

There was a salient comment made about modifying the crossover to work
with the new driver. If the inductance, DC resistance, efficiency,
and frequency response of the new part are close, chances are you'll
be OK there. Those would be better selection criteria. Unless you
have access to the tools and design skills, it would be better to
modify the mechanical mounting,

I recently replaced my aging Philips ribbons with a pair of Morel
CAT308s, http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/CAT308.pdf. They're a
bit pricey at $75 a pop, but well worth the money IMHO. Flat, clean,
efficient, and they'll handle a lot of power.



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Restless Fingers Syndrome Restless Fingers Syndrome is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

bigwig wrote:
Hello,
I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters


wait until they grow up to a point that *no* means something.
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bigwig bigwig is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

On 16 Dec, 20:01, Restless Fingers Syndrome wrote:
bigwig wrote:
Hello,
* I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
* * I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters


* wait until they grow up to a point that *no* means something.


LOL, yes my eldest is three and very promising, she can speak a fair
bit of French and Spanish. God only knows how because I can only
barely speak a bit of German. My youngest is two and is a total
lunatic, although she could ride a two wheel bike at 18 months. I
think it was her that did the damage, she is quite in to the way stuff
works and I caught her doing the other tweet.
As for the kit and skills to redisign a crossover. I have the grey
matter and the tools, just got no clue. I am thinking of building
completely new enclosures, something along the lines of a smallish
speaker cab. with tweet and mid/bassish and a seperate bass under
each. Maybe even cast them in concrete. The four bass/mid drivers I am
left with are very high quality so it would be a shame not to take the
plunge. The original cabinets are ok just MDF. I could easily chop
them about for a different mounting tweet but am just going to make a
silk purse from a sows ear.
Yes the hoover does the trick, but one tweet is nailed and I have
never been comfortable with damaged tweeters.
Anyway in the meantime before I plunge headlong into another project
(I am still doing stuff I started 5 years ago) I just need some tweets
to match the mounting plate of the originals. I know if I start
chopping chunks out I will think **** this crap and start again.
Thanks for the interest guys.
Matt.
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bigwig bigwig is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

On 16 Dec, 22:33, bigwig wrote:
On 16 Dec, 20:01, Restless Fingers Syndrome wrote:

bigwig wrote:
Hello,
* I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
* * I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters


* wait until they grow up to a point that *no* means something.


LOL, yes my eldest is three and very promising, she can speak a fair
bit of French and Spanish. God only knows how because I can only
barely speak a bit of German. My youngest is two and is a total
lunatic, although she could ride a two wheel bike at 18 months. I
think it was her that did the damage, she is quite in to the way stuff
works and I caught her doing the other tweet.
* As for the kit and skills to redisign a crossover. I have the grey
matter and the tools, just got no clue. I am thinking of building
completely new enclosures, something along the lines of a smallish
speaker cab. with tweet and mid/bassish and a seperate bass under
each. Maybe even cast them in concrete. The four bass/mid drivers I am
left with are very high quality so it would be a shame not to take the
plunge. *The original cabinets are ok just MDF. I could easily chop
them about for a different mounting tweet but am just going to make a
silk purse from a sows ear.
* Yes the hoover does the trick, but one tweet is nailed and I have
never been comfortable with damaged tweeters.
* Anyway in the meantime before I plunge headlong into another project
(I am still doing stuff I started 5 years ago) I just need some tweets
to match the mounting plate of the originals. I know if I start
chopping chunks out I will think **** this crap and start again.
* * Thanks for the interest guys.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * Matt.


**** sorry Fryzz,
Didnt see the link. I guess we pay well over the odds. The Seas units
I am looking at cost that. I could risk it with customs and excise for
that price. even if they sting me like they did on the trannys I got
from the US its still a good deal.
I thought of ribbons. What was wrong with yours?.
Matt.


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Trevor Wilson[_2_] Trevor Wilson[_2_] is offline
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Posts: 724
Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds




"bigwig" wrote in message
...
Hello,
I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters had
taken it into their little heads that denting in my tweeters was a
good idea. They must have done one a while ago and I caught my
youngest systematically destroying the other with a christmas card. I
was displeased to say the least, only just calmed down now.
The speakers are Monitor Audio Silver S5s. The origonal tweets
appear to be Audax units with the same mounting as these
http://seas.worldomain.net/pdf/H623.pdf
they are metal/ceramic dome and need the same mounting because they
are let into a routed out recess.
Does anyone know of any other manufacturers tweets that will do? I
dont mind a fabric dome as they were a bit tiring and I was thinking
of replacing them at some point, just that now my hand has been
forced.
Thanks Matt.


**Please post a photo of the original tweeter, if you are able. Even better,
supply an Audax part number. I have a quantity of NOS Audax products and I
may have the same part in stock.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au


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bigwig bigwig is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

On 17 Dec, 01:50, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:
"bigwig" wrote in message

...





Hello,
*I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
* *I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters had
taken it into their little heads that denting in my tweeters was a
good idea. They must have done one a while ago and I caught my
youngest systematically destroying the other with a christmas card. I
was displeased to say the least, only just calmed down now.
* The speakers are Monitor Audio Silver S5s. The origonal tweets
appear to be Audax units with the same mounting as these
http://seas.worldomain.net/pdf/H623.pdf
they are metal/ceramic dome and need the same mounting because they
are let into a routed out recess.
*Does anyone know of any other manufacturers tweets that will do? I
dont mind a fabric dome as they were a bit tiring and I was thinking
of replacing them at some point, just that now my hand has been
forced.
* * * * *Thanks Matt.


**Please post a photo of the original tweeter, if you are able. Even better,
supply an Audax part number. I have a quantity of NOS Audax products and I
may have the same part in stock.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Hello Trevor,
They are part number TM025C11. I will post some photos on Flickr
later. I picked up my camera and the batterys are flat, typical.
Thanks matt.
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bigwig bigwig is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

On 17 Dec, 17:21, bigwig wrote:
On 17 Dec, 01:50, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:





"bigwig" wrote in message


....


Hello,
*I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
* *I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters had
taken it into their little heads that denting in my tweeters was a
good idea. They must have done one a while ago and I caught my
youngest systematically destroying the other with a christmas card. I
was displeased to say the least, only just calmed down now.
* The speakers are Monitor Audio Silver S5s. The origonal tweets
appear to be Audax units with the same mounting as these
http://seas.worldomain.net/pdf/H623.pdf
they are metal/ceramic dome and need the same mounting because they
are let into a routed out recess.
*Does anyone know of any other manufacturers tweets that will do? I
dont mind a fabric dome as they were a bit tiring and I was thinking
of replacing them at some point, just that now my hand has been
forced.
* * * * *Thanks Matt.


**Please post a photo of the original tweeter, if you are able. Even better,
supply an Audax part number. I have a quantity of NOS Audax products and I
may have the same part in stock.


--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au-Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Hello Trevor,
* *They are part number TM025C11. I will post some photos on Flickr
later. I picked up my camera and the batterys are flat, typical.
* * *Thanks matt.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Here is the photos. Not good but I am no photographer. This is the
first time I have stuck any photos on flickr, why is the clock/date
thing permenently stuck in September?. My camera clock is fine as is
my laptop.
Heres the first http://www.flickr.com/photos/33462054@N04/3119416908/
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds




"bigwig" wrote in message
...
On 17 Dec, 01:50, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:
"bigwig" wrote in message

...





Hello,
I know this is a bit off topic for RAT but hey.
I dicovered a few days ago that one or both of my daughters had
taken it into their little heads that denting in my tweeters was a
good idea. They must have done one a while ago and I caught my
youngest systematically destroying the other with a christmas card. I
was displeased to say the least, only just calmed down now.
The speakers are Monitor Audio Silver S5s. The origonal tweets
appear to be Audax units with the same mounting as these
http://seas.worldomain.net/pdf/H623.pdf
they are metal/ceramic dome and need the same mounting because they
are let into a routed out recess.
Does anyone know of any other manufacturers tweets that will do? I
dont mind a fabric dome as they were a bit tiring and I was thinking
of replacing them at some point, just that now my hand has been
forced.
Thanks Matt.


**Please post a photo of the original tweeter, if you are able. Even
better,
supply an Audax part number. I have a quantity of NOS Audax products and I
may have the same part in stock.

--
Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Hello Trevor,
They are part number TM025C11. I will post some photos on Flickr
later. I picked up my camera and the batterys are flat, typical.
Thanks matt.

**I checked my entire stock over the weekend and I am sorry to say that I
don't have any of that model tweeter in stock. I will ask around though. I
know some guys. I'll get back to you either way.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au


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fryzz fryzz is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

On Dec 16, 7:14 pm, bigwig wrote:


**** sorry Fryzz,


Hey, no problem. You know, you could just plug the hole and set the
tweeters on top. Maybe in their own little box with a stout grill to
protect them from the ....ahem....environmental hazards?

Didnt see the link. I guess we pay well over the odds. The Seas units
I am looking at cost that. I could risk it with customs and excise for
that price. even if they sting me like they did on the trannys I got
from the US its still a good deal.


Ah, I see you're in the UK. Morel is British, so you can probably get
them cheaper than I can.

I thought of ribbons. What was wrong with yours?.


They began to sound distorted, after 25 years of service. I took them
apart to see what's up, and the conductors were coming loose from the
diaphragm. There was also some discoloration and warping, looked like
thermal overload. So, yeah, I blew them out :-(. It might be
possible to make a new diaphragm, but I wanted something more robust
anyway, so I went with the Morel domes. I really like the low
distortion and fast transient response of a decent ribbon, the problem
with is that all the ones I can afford to buy are tiny and fragile,
even if they do sound good.

After I got into crossover design, I tried both 12 dB/octave and 6 dB/
octave networks. I was able to get excellent amplitude response with
the 12 dB/octave networks as long as I was willing to tolerate 180
degrees of phase shift from one end of the passband to the other.
With 6 dB/octave filters I was able to design a network that is, for
all practical purposes, both amplitude and phase flat over the entire
passband. I tried out both networks, and the 6 dB network gives an
incredibly natural and well imaged sound compared to the 12 dB, as
well as being considerably less complex, hence cheaper and easier to
build. The downside is that the drivers see more energy outside of
their passband, so power handling and distortion are to some extent
compromised. That's probably why my ribbons died.

So, to make a long story short, I needed a more rugged tweeter to
accommodate my changing preferences in crossovers. After looking far
and wide, and reading many, many spec sheets, I decided I really like
the Morel drivers. It is my observation that their parts offer
outstanding distortion and frequency response characteristics, and
handle four or five times the power of comparably priced competing
units. Transient power handling is specified both in terms of the
thermal capacity AND the acoustic output. If there is better value
for the money being offered elsewhere, guys, I would surely like to
know.

My speakers consists of a stereo pair. 15" acoustic suspension
woofers in 3.5 cu ft boxes, giving 3 dB down at 43 Hz, rated at 150
watts. The woofer excursion limits at 110 dB. The midrange is a
Morel MDM-75 (no longer available, the MDM-85 is it's replacement),
and the Morel CAT308. All drivers are 90 dB 1 watt 1 meter. I drive
it with an old Ampzilla, 250 watts/channel. They sound great at any
volume level up to the max that the amp can deliver, with any type of
program material, accurate enough and clean enough that occasionally
it happens I am fooled into thinking a recorded sound is real. Kind
of spooky. I have about $800 worth of material in the pair, which
includes prefabricated cabinets.



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bigwig bigwig is offline
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Default Fingered tweets the little b*%8&^rds

On 22 Dec 2008, 23:23, fryzz wrote:
On Dec 16, 7:14 pm, bigwig wrote:

**** sorry Fryzz,


Hey, no problem. *You know, you could just plug the hole and set the
tweeters on top. *Maybe in their own little box with a stout grill to
protect them from the ....ahem....environmental hazards?

Didnt see the link. I guess we pay well over the odds. The Seas units
I am looking at cost that. I could risk it with customs and excise for
that price. even if they sting me like they did on the trannys I got
from the US its still a good deal.


Ah, I see you're in the UK. *Morel is British, so you can probably get
them cheaper than I can.

* *I thought of ribbons. What was wrong with yours?.


They began to sound distorted, after 25 years of service. *I took them
apart to see what's up, and the conductors were coming loose from the
diaphragm. There was also some discoloration and warping, looked like
thermal overload. *So, yeah, I blew them out :-(. *It might be
possible to make a new diaphragm, but I wanted something more robust
anyway, so I went with the Morel domes. *I really like the low
distortion and fast transient response of a decent ribbon, the problem
with is that all the ones I can afford to buy are tiny and fragile,
even if they do sound good.

After I got into crossover design, I tried both 12 dB/octave and 6 dB/
octave networks. *I was able to get excellent amplitude response with
the 12 dB/octave networks as long as I was willing to tolerate 180
degrees of phase shift from one end of the passband to the other.
With 6 dB/octave filters I was able to design a network that is, for
all practical purposes, both amplitude and phase flat over the entire
passband. * I tried out both networks, and the 6 dB network gives an
incredibly natural and well imaged sound compared to the 12 dB, as
well as being considerably less complex, hence cheaper and easier to
build. *The downside is that the drivers see more energy outside of
their passband, so power handling and distortion are to some extent
compromised. *That's probably why my ribbons died.

So, to make a long story short, I needed a more rugged tweeter to
accommodate my changing preferences in crossovers. *After looking far
and wide, and reading many, many spec sheets, I decided I really like
the Morel drivers. *It is my observation that their parts offer
outstanding distortion and frequency response characteristics, and
handle four or five times the power of comparably priced competing
units. *Transient power handling is specified both in terms of the
thermal capacity AND the acoustic output. *If there is better value
for the money being offered elsewhere, guys, I would surely like to
know.

My speakers consists of a stereo pair. *15" acoustic suspension
woofers in 3.5 cu ft boxes, giving 3 dB down at 43 Hz, rated at 150
watts. *The woofer excursion limits at 110 dB. *The midrange is a
Morel MDM-75 (no longer available, the MDM-85 is it's replacement),
and the Morel CAT308. *All drivers are 90 dB 1 watt 1 meter. *I drive
it with an old Ampzilla, 250 watts/channel. *They sound great at any
volume level up to the max that the amp can deliver, with any type of
program material, accurate enough and clean enough that occasionally
it happens I am fooled into thinking a recorded sound is real. *Kind
of spooky. I have about $800 worth of material in the pair, which
includes prefabricated cabinets.


Sorry I have not got back before!!!!.
You have 15 inch woofers in 3.5 cu/feet I have been interested in
this kind of arangement before. OK I admit it was in a friends car
with dual voice coils and very low output impedence amp ie 0.001 ohm.
The damping factor is key.
We had some admittedly crappy Sony amps x2 in bridge. In usuall car
bull****t they were rated for 100W RMS per channel and bridged 400W
into 1 Ohm. Funny thing is they did actually give this x2 so two amps
800w RMS!! Sounded amazing. Its the first time I have heard bass
produced this well. A sort of servo effect.
Thing is everything was shaking and it was all chaos. HI Fi I think
not no not, but hey it was very, very nice. At least that was what was
I was told. Yep insane, peaky resonant, but lovely.
I dont have the occasional KW to play with, the smalll closed box
still looks good though.

but the likes of REL and others use the small box very we
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